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 SarisKhan wrote:
I find some of the changes in 7th very desireable, like the new Vehicle Damage Chart where only a 7+ result causes an explosion. I might be missing something, but I fail to see what's so "apocalyptic" about the new edition, so I plan to simply move on to it once it's released.

I don't see myself "quitting" WH40k anytime soon.

Aside from Dakka's habitual "The sky is falling!" call at everything new, here are some reasons why many think 7th will be the worst thing since burnt toast:

-Unbound lets you take whatever you want (complying with the new allies matrix), possibly leading to more Op combos. Personally I think the worst combos are ones we've already seen.
-The new allies matrix means that everyone will have to revise their armies. Again.
-The entire thing reeks of desperate money grabs. I can't deny that.
-The psychic phase is too new and unfamiliar to many 40k players
-One psychic table requires the additional purchase of the Daemons codex, and looks incredibly unbalanced, due to summoning an extra 95-200 points for yourself every turn.
-It is too close to the release of 6th, which we've only just started to get comfortable with. And some people have just bought the 6th rules, only to have it instantly invalidated.
-GW plans to release the rules in a pack with two other unnecessary books, and has the price sky-high. Again.

 Selym wrote:

 SarisKhan wrote:
I find some of the changes in 7th very desireable, like the new Vehicle Damage Chart where only a 7+ result causes an explosion. I might be missing something, but I fail to see what's so "apocalyptic" about the new edition, so I plan to simply move on to it once it's released.

I don't see myself "quitting" WH40k anytime soon.

Aside from Dakka's habitual "The sky is falling!" call at everything new, here are some reasons why many think 7th will be the worst thing since burnt toast:

-Unbound lets you take whatever you want (complying with the new allies matrix), possibly leading to more Op combos. Personally I think the worst combos are ones we've already seen.
-The new allies matrix means that everyone will have to revise their armies. Again.
-The entire thing reeks of desperate money grabs. I can't deny that.
-The psychic phase is too new and unfamiliar to many 40k players
-One psychic table requires the additional purchase of the Daemons codex, and looks incredibly unbalanced, due to summoning an extra 95-200 points for yourself every turn.
-It is too close to the release of 6th, which we've only just started to get comfortable with. And some people have just bought the 6th rules, only to have it instantly invalidated.
-GW plans to release the rules in a pack with two other unnecessary books, and has the price sky-high. Again.

Yeah, I understand why those changes might be a problem for others. They don't affect me much, though. None of my friends is going to play an Unbound army, I'm the only one using allies in the group (CSM + DE). The new psychic phase is mildly confusing, but given time it'll become just another part of the game.

Regarding the high prices, well, there may or may not be certain ways of circumventing those.

I will absolutely will not buy the BRB and if there will not be a mini rulebook I guess I might play based on the charity of others, otherwise I'm done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Selym wrote:

-One psychic table requires the additional purchase of the Daemons codex, and looks incredibly unbalanced, due to summoning an extra 95-200 points for yourself every turn.

I wish it was only a possible 95-200 per round

4 HQ Deamons naked at Lv 3 can put out 400-800 per round...hello round 2 I nearly doubled my army in points. What happens if Horrors can do it (I can't remember if they can be mastery Lv 3 or not)

and if the dispell is similar to Deny the Witch it will be a 5+ to dispell since most everyone will take a mastery level 3 or 4 just to boost dispell. ie most casters will be equal in level. What if your army can't even field them, sorry Tau, Guard, Sisters, Orks and any others I may have forgot. Thus on 4 dispell attempts you dispell one, two maybe, three if your lucky.

I'm skipping 7th edition and saving up for the 8th edition release at Xmas.....

 Selym wrote:

 SarisKhan wrote:
I find some of the changes in 7th very desireable, like the new Vehicle Damage Chart where only a 7+ result causes an explosion. I might be missing something, but I fail to see what's so "apocalyptic" about the new edition, so I plan to simply move on to it once it's released.

I don't see myself "quitting" WH40k anytime soon.

Aside from Dakka's habitual "The sky is falling!" call at everything new, here are some reasons why many think 7th will be the worst thing since burnt toast:

-Unbound lets you take whatever you want (complying with the new allies matrix), possibly leading to more Op combos. Personally I think the worst combos are ones we've already seen.
-The new allies matrix means that everyone will have to revise their armies. Again.
-The entire thing reeks of desperate money grabs. I can't deny that.
-The psychic phase is too new and unfamiliar to many 40k players
-One psychic table requires the additional purchase of the Daemons codex, and looks incredibly unbalanced, due to summoning an extra 95-200 points for yourself every turn.
-It is too close to the release of 6th, which we've only just started to get comfortable with. And some people have just bought the 6th rules, only to have it instantly invalidated.
-GW plans to release the rules in a pack with two other unnecessary books, and has the price sky-high. Again.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the main reason 40k died around here and my personal reason for not playing much anymore (which equates to not buying anything) is purely Escalation. Honestly, I kind of like some of the things they're doing with 7th, but integrating Escalation as a core part of the game is what did it in for me. I have my first game on Friday in 4 months, so we'll see how it goes, but even then I'm only going because my wife is working and I wasn't able to get a group together to do the other things I wanted to do.

As it currently stands, I have absolutely zero desire to buy 7th edition. I read about it with a mild interest, but there's no way I'm putting any more money down on this game at this time.

 ciaotym wrote:
I'm skipping 7th edition and saving up for the 8th edition release at Xmas.....

Too late. More like Halloween.


Time will tell what I do. New 40k for sure coming. Rumors point to orks next. I have an 19 month old (Friday) and I played what....>5 games of 6th against the same person?? If it was just the rule book for $20 to $30 Id buy. $85 for rules, fluff and artwork when I have all that under 2 years old? Blah.

Escalation isn't a problem in my place, most likely because FW prices are horrendous when compared to an average Polish salary. Sad but true.

I budget myself on my gaming purchases. Each paycheck I set aside $40 for myself to splurge on gaming. Sometimes this involves me saving that $40 up to have enough to purchase what I want.

This keeps my spending in line but means I am slow to update or create a new army. It also allows be to actually paint what I buy. This has worked for me in the past as I figure I am in the game for the long haul and I have been able to use miniatures for decades, with years between editions this slow approach was doable.

So a new edition on the heels of me just getting my army to where I want it means this strategy might not work out for me if they keep releasing editions so close to each other. So I will probably go back to what I did, which is just collect miniatures to paint. Rapid releases I will never be able to keep up budget wise

My core gaming group of 5 people is sticking with 6th ed and its codexes. GW have just alienated me too much with their taking-the-pee sales tactics. The gamers outside this little group won't have a problem reverting to 6th to play us if they ever move on to 7th (one has already moved on to infinity).

 Selym wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
"You will not be missed"

Can we make emo "quitting cause 7th ed is new and causes me stress" threads bannable?

That would shut down half of Dakka.

Complainting about GW is a legitimate part of the hobby, and GW continues to foster this proud tradition.

Started playing with 1st Edition and loved the development of the game through to 2nd. Unfortunately neither me nor my friends at the time found 3rd Edition much fun and they all sold their armies and left the hobby. I would buy the occasional boxed set to assemble and convert, but that was it for several years.

I read rumours on the rulebooks and played the occasional game, two or three times a year, but was only really involved in modelling as far as 40k went. Played WarmaHordes as well as Magic until I got bored of both of the games and wanted something with more substance (although this is just my opinion).

Around the tail end of 4th Edition I moved in with some friends who played 40k, so played a few more games and bought the rules. 5th and 6th Edition have moved the game more in a direction I like and I am playing more often, so I suspect 7th may be the first edition I rush out and buy since 2nd.

 SarisKhan wrote:
Escalation isn't a problem in my place, most likely because FW prices are horrendous when compared to an average Polish salary. Sad but true.

Yeah, from what I can tell in our local gaming community, NOBODY plays escalation. The one person who has (and he's one of the top tourney players in the state) says that out of a 2 player game, the one person who takes something for escalation typically gets hurt too badly in the game for it.

People in our community bring out the super heavies for apoc and that's it.

I put myself in the 6th-was-the-last camp.

My club has never been into 40k, but I've been playing it off and on since 2nd edition. It was my first real gaming love and has always had a place in my heart.

For the last few years I've bought very little, though I've continued to buy each rulebook, codieces for my IG and Blood Angels and the occasional unit. However, the combination of the raise in price for codices and the new rulebook just 2 years after the last, has forced me to make this calculation.

Do I want to spend $185 dollars (rulebook and 2 codices) for:
...a game that I'm only playing a few times a year..
and
...a game for which yearly price hikes are an absolutely sure thing?

The answer unfortunately is no.

For nearly two decades GW has kept me on the line buying a bit more each edition to keep playing the armies that I've invested hundreds of dollars in, but no longer. I don't want to drop 180 just for a set of rulebooks, and I certainly don't want to do it again in 2 years.

Maybe if 40k was my only game and I was involved in a group that only played 40k, that would be different, but that's not the kind of gamer I am anyway. I want to play lots of different games and the amount of $ required would make 40k my only game.

If I want to play the occasional game with my 40k models, I'll use an old edition or break out WarEngine or Warpath (1.0 was great, and I'll try 2.0 at some point) as free is a much better price for a game that only get's played a time or two a year.

 SarisKhan wrote:
Escalation isn't a problem in my place, most likely because FW prices are horrendous when compared to an average Polish salary. Sad but true.

Recasting is an option , but localy there are few models made by people and ordering stuff from Russia or China maybe hit and miss.

 Eilif wrote:
Maybe if 40k was my only game and I was involved in a group that only played 40k, that would be different, but that's not the kind of gamer I am anyway.

This is the boat I'm in. Our regular gaming group plays 4 different table-top games, one of which is 40k. It competes with the others for our gaming time, and any new products that come out, including 7th Edition, are in direct competition for our $$ with these other games.

7th Edition has got to improve the game meanignfully to get us to buy the book. Our plan now is one guy is gonna buy the book (he buys EVERY 40k book anyways), we'll play test it, and if it makes the game funner, we'll adopt.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
Maybe if 40k was my only game and I was involved in a group that only played 40k, that would be different, but that's not the kind of gamer I am anyway.

This is the boat I'm in. Our regular gaming group plays 4 different table-top games, one of which is 40k. It competes with the others for our gaming time, and any new products that come out, including 7th Edition, are in direct competition for our $$ with these other games.

7th Edition has got to improve the game meanignfully to get us to buy the book. Our plan now is one guy is gonna buy the book (he buys EVERY 40k book anyways), we'll play test it, and if it makes the game funner, we'll adopt.

I think alot of folks are in this dilemma. 40k (and some of the other "big" games to be fair) really are designed to suck up every bit of your hobby time and dollar. From crafting a list, to buying the latest apoc/scenario/flyer/expansion book, to the sheer cost of miniatures, and the vast number that you need, it's a huge investment. Now that does give you a very emersive hobby experience and the community is quite large, but it doesn't leave the average gamer with alot of free time and $.

Our club plays Tomorrow's War, Kings of War, Song of Blades, Alpha Strike, and others, and I'd venture to say the total investment per player for all of those is less than what it'd take to be involved in the 40k or WHFB hobby.

It's not even worth it to use our existing miniatures to occasionally play one of the GW games because the rules and a single codex/army book will set you back well over $100. Compare that to games like KoW, Tomorrow's War, SBH, which cost from 10-40 for a book that also provides rules and plenty of army lists in one package.

Put another way, 40k is designed to be your "one and only", while other games give you lots of space to "play the field".

When it comes to marriage I'm faithful and true, when it comes to gaming, I'd rather be a player.

I sort of like the look of 7th edition (not as much as 6th though), but I just don't buy £45+ rule books.

I have spent so much on this game that quitting would be silly.

Besides I play to have fun. Provided 40k allows me to have fun, I will continue to play.

Still cheaper than a smoking habit.

I'll wait and see if 7th is worth anything. If it's just 8th ed Fantasy with Space Marines, well... I hear 3rd ed Infinity is a thing. Other than that, I'll stick with 6th, or even better go back to 5th.

Rismonite wrote:"You will not be missed"

Can we make emo "quitting cause 7th ed is new and causes me stress" threads bannable?

Dunno, can we ban the members that insist GW can do no wrong and that everyone else must accept this?

 liquidjoshi wrote:
I'll wait and see if 7th is worth anything. If it's just 8th ed Fantasy with Space Marines, well... I hear 3rd ed Infinity is a thing. Other than that, I'll stick with 6th, or even better go back to 5th.

Rismonite wrote:"You will not be missed"

Can we make emo "quitting cause 7th ed is new and causes me stress" threads bannable?

Dunno, can we ban the members that insist GW can do no wrong and that everyone else must accept this?

I think it's Rule #34 of Dakka that any and all posts relating to GW must be positive at all times for the Great Leader Tom Kirby. Oh wait,...no, #34 might be something else.

I personally plan on having a lot of fun using the 40K Battle Bible to play small skirmish level games of 2nd edition. As in, remove the unit cohesion rules, and everything can be bought at the individual model point value (still holding to the army composition restrictions and unit restrictions), and the points value of each game will be around 300-500 points. Basically games where a Marine player fields around a dozen marines who can all act independently like gangers in Necromunda. Or Kill team, but where everyone gets to have a kill team instead of somebody having to play mooks, all within the 2nd edition ruleset, which I think works very well for that type of game (which is why Necromunda is great).

As for the more modern editions, I plan on sticking with 4th edition. I have a metric ton of gaming material for that edition, and have no intention of buying modern versions of it and/or seeing some of the cooler stuff like 13th Company, Cursed Foundings, and Kroot Mercs be erased from the game. No one I will be playing with has anything newer than 5th edition, so there is no pressure to get into 6th/7th. Plus one of the worst parts of 4th edition- skimmer spam- is a moot point as I am the only Eldar player and have exactly two grav-tanks.

I am actually far more excited to play 2nd edition, now that I have all the rules and datafax cards I need to play a complete game. I even found a listing of all the cards that made up the Psychic deck, so even the psychic phase is able to be fully utilized, and the Battle bible has all the wargear cards and weapon profiles in the game fully listed.

So last night our gaming group got together for some non-40k gaming, which fell apart when we all started talking about what we're gonna do about 7th, and we all decided on the following:

See if 7 is better than 6.
Wait till all the hardback codexes are released.

Lock down, use whichever ruleset is better between 6th and 7th.

Forever separate ourselves from any future GW ruleset or codex releases beyond 7th.

We can all still play the armies we already have with nice hardback codices, buy the occassional unit or model here or there (just like normal), and not fall into GW's profit-driven release cycle, in case this 2 year deal becomes business as usual.

 jasper76 wrote:
So last night our gaming group got together for some non-40k gaming, which fell apart when we all started talking about what we're gonna do about 7th, and we all decided on the following:

See if 7 is better than 6.
Wait till all the hardback codexes are released.

Lock down, use whichever ruleset is better between 6th and 7th.

Forever separate ourselves from any future GW ruleset or codex releases beyond 7th.

We can all still play the armies we already have with nice hardback codices, buy the occassional unit or model here or there (just like normal), and not fall into GW's profit-driven release cycle, in case this 2 year deal becomes business as usual.

Admirable solution.

I feel that I need to have this discussion with my group.
If 7th bombs, we'll probably stick to 6th due to having bought our codexes already. Possibly jump back into 5th for nostalgic effect.

I might buy into 7th, but only if it is much better then i hear in all the doom and gloom rumor threads. I am a 15 yr old boy with a 15 yr old's salary (I.E Whatever i work for at home) and £60 for a book is a very, very large investment for me. I play both 40K and Fantasy, and as of now (My Wood Elves have been updated! WOOP!) i plan on playing more Fantasy then 40K as the rules are much less Rock, Paper, Scissors (Knight Army? Escalation? Whole ARMY of Riptides???). With the new Fantasy edition coming out soon as well, i have to make a choice on which i will follow, and right now I am heavily leaning towards Fantasy.

Alex

Eh, I'll probably still drag out my armies every now and then as long as they're still legal.

 Selym wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

Forever separate ourselves from any future GW ruleset or codex releases beyond 7th.

We can all still play the armies we already have with nice hardback codices, buy the occassional unit or model here or there (just like normal), and not fall into GW's profit-driven release cycle, in case this 2 year deal becomes business as usual.

Admirable solution.

I feel that I need to have this discussion with my group.
If 7th bombs, we'll probably stick to 6th due to having bought our codexes already. Possibly jump back into 5th for nostalgic effect.

It seems like a workable solution, but the history of GW tells us that it won't be quite that easy. GW will continue to release new units (and maybe even new factions) that aren't serviced by current codicies, which for veteran gamers are likely the only units that will interest us. At that point, you've got to start house-ruling or ignoring all new releases, both of which have their pitfalls.

Not that it can't be done, but just be aware of the potential difficulties. If your buddies are casual gamers who just like to get their 40k figs on the table once in a while, it should be fairly easy, if they're competitive, power-gamers, then it might be a bit more trouble.

I'm not sure what myself and the coule other guys in my club who still have 40k armies are going to do. I think one of them would prefer to stick with 6th. I could do that, but I played so few games of 6th, that it seems like an awful lot of rules to learn for an occasional game. I'm leaning toward Warparth 2.0 and/or 1.0 which are quite strait-forward games relatively unencumbered by mountains of special rules.

I had hoped to use 2nd edition (for which I have Dark Millenium and every single codex), but a play-through a year or so ago, showed that it's really not viable for the kind of fast-play gaming I'd like. It's a warband skrimish set of rules that someone had the "brilliant" idea to scale up to platoon level and it really doesn't work well, IMHO.

 Eilif wrote:
I think one of them would prefer to stick with 6th. I could do that, but I played so few games of 6th, that it seems like an awful lot of rules to learn for an occasional game.

From all the confirmed rumors, 7th edition is going to be even more complicated than 6th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eilif wrote:
It seems like a workable solution, but the history of GW tells us that it won't be quite that easy. GW will continue to release new units (and maybe even new factions) that aren't serviced by current codicies, which for veteran gamers are likely the only units that will interest us. At that point, you've got to start house-ruling or ignoring all new releases, both of which have their pitfalls.

This is the point about waiting until all the harback releases are issued....then we'll have a picture-in-time of what units are available in the hardback codices, all of which will be compatible with 7th, and just stop there. No new units that require new book purchases.

Most of us already have 1 or more (in some cases lots more) stacked armies that we spent alot of time and money on. As long as we've got a playable 40k system to play our armies with, I think we're all good.

I don't mean to sound like a GW-hater troll, but its not like this is news....GW has priced themselves out of the market. I am building a Tyranid army for the sole reason of I like the models, but just about everyone else in our group are sick of paying GW's already bloated and ever-inflating prices just to keep up with the Jones's...in this case, the Jones's are ourselves. We are a competitive group, but only one of us ever enters tournaments.

I really, really enjoy 40k, and have absolutely no intention of quitting, whether we stay with 6th or go with 7th...but lets be honest, to build a really stacked army is a multi-thousand dollar endeavor. For a competing historical table-top game that we play, I was able to buy everything I'll ever need in the $250-300 neighborhood IIRC.

In truth I stopped playing regularly in 4th. I've had a few games over the years but I just don't care anymore. GW has become a big let down for me. I've sold off almost my entire collection and am waiting for a buyer for my Eldar. Once theyre gone I'm done for good. I probably won't even visit falls anymore as I've grown tired of the same old same old.
It was fun while it lasted but 40k has gone from a game I had a magical talent to convince people to play, to game I actively talk people out of buying. Constant price hikes, overpriced merchandise and poor quality games has become the cornerstones of GW.
I'm moving on to newer better games and old classics.
Good bye GW.