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Given GW's recent vid:



It seems that rather than a Mastery 1 psyker getting one power, and a Mastery 3 psyker getting 3 powers, they will instead know one or more whole disciplines, resulting in knowledge of a minimum of seven powers. I assume this means they'll FAQ CSM psykers to get a whole god table and a whole rulebook table.

This means that Psykers will be far more extensive and far-reaching than before, and the use of warp charges could mean that a given psyker could deal out multiple ML2 or 3 powers per turn.

Any thoughts on how this may affect the game?

It was said pretty clear cut that there is still a roll for powers, just like before.

But you dont longer get the prime powers as replacements, but as a bonus if you took every single power that psyker knows through a roll on that table.


Might actually turn 1ksons into quashi-playable though, given that each sorcerer will get the prime+a roll on the T powers.

I've watched the video a couple times now and I don't see/hear anything that suggests you get an entire discipline. Did I miss something?

If it is true I guess my aspiring sorcs get the entire crappy tzeentch tree instead of just one crappy tzeentch power...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:

...
Might actually turn 1ksons into quashi-playable though, given that each sorcerer will get the prime+a roll on the T powers.

I usually don't even bother to cast the tzeentch primaris its so bad, not worth the risk of losing the sorc. Especially with the new way activating powers works its going to be much more worth using your warp charge points to increase the chance of casting other spells than to waste them on something so bad. Additionally it seems unclear how this will interact with the csm rule that you have to take between one and half of your ML in powers of the appropriate god.

I can't WAIT for deamons to pop out of nowere and attack. as if deamons cant generate enough extra guys!

Seems that you have to roll to activate warp charges(I thought that was bunk, but someone corrected me).. so that "pool" will not net you the powers you would get today. You might have access to more powers if you stay in the same tree but doesn't mean you get to cast them.

means you ML1 psyker is likely rolling 2 dice to to make sure he gets the warp charge needed for his power.. Have a 2 warp or 3 warp power... 4 to 6 dice from that pool. Pray you don't fail more than half of those or you don't generate the power.... Or worse someone gets you on a dtw.

It's not a boost.

 Roci wrote:
Seems that you have to roll to activate warp charges(I thought that was bunk, but someone corrected me).. so that "pool" will not net you the powers you would get today. You might have access to more powers if you stay in the same tree but doesn't mean you get to cast them.

means you ML1 psyker is likely rolling 2 dice to to make sure he gets the warp charge needed for his power.. Have a 2 warp or 3 warp power... 4 to 6 dice from that pool. Pray you don't fail more than half of those or you don't generate the power.... Or worse someone gets you on a dtw.

It's not a boost.

Indeed. Psychic powers are actually going to be a lot more difficult to cast than before. The chances are you are going to want to throw at least 7 dice at a Warpcharge 3 power, and that's a lot, quite possibly your entire pool.

The ability to deny blessings as well, is going to be huge. If anything though, it does seem they have upped the power of the WC3 powers to compensate, if the Daemonolgy table is anything to go by.

What's this gonna do to Nid's with Biomancy?

Also if people want to pull off that big, warp charge 3 spell and they have to throw their entire pool at it that's gonna leave the other psykers hanging high and dry, making players feel like they wasted points, which I'm guessing will result in fewer but higher level psykers on the board making prime suspects for snipers. So now the challenge is keeping them safe while still being able to bring the pain.

Barrywise wrote:
What's this gonna do to Nid's with Biomancy?

Also if people want to pull off that big, warp charge 3 spell and they have to throw their entire pool at it that's gonna leave the other psykers hanging high and dry, making players feel like they wasted points, which I'm guessing will result in fewer but higher level psykers on the board making prime suspects for snipers. So now the challenge is keeping them safe while still being able to bring the pain.

Nids don't have Biomancy anymore.

Barrywise wrote:
What's this gonna do to Nid's with Biomancy?

Also if people want to pull off that big, warp charge 3 spell and they have to throw their entire pool at it that's gonna leave the other psykers hanging high and dry, making players feel like they wasted points, which I'm guessing will result in fewer but higher level psykers on the board making prime suspects for snipers. So now the challenge is keeping them safe while still being able to bring the pain.

Yes... Psykers now seem more like a tactical decision than an "I can buff this thing to OP levels 9/10 times" kind of thing.

 Sasori wrote:

Barrywise wrote:
What's this gonna do to Nid's with Biomancy?

Also if people want to pull off that big, warp charge 3 spell and they have to throw their entire pool at it that's gonna leave the other psykers hanging high and dry, making players feel like they wasted points, which I'm guessing will result in fewer but higher level psykers on the board making prime suspects for snipers. So now the challenge is keeping them safe while still being able to bring the pain.

Nids don't have Biomancy anymore.

Nids don't have anything but a single dinky table.

Meanwhile Daemons can abuse Divinitation and Biomancy and the Eldar have the best codex powers ever.

But Tyranids with Iron Arm?

Noooope.

Which is why I assume GW made an omission and run them with TK, TP, and Biomancy anyway.

Feth nerfing an already low tier army.

What I'm actually wondering is how Shadow in the Warp will change for Nids as there aren't any necessary checks. It does seem like Nids in particular will still have a nasty psychic choir (just SO many dice) so they should be able to counter psykers pretty effectively even if they don't change Shadow in the Warp at all (but really they have to). I bet it'll give +1 or +2 to the deny the witch rolls if the opposing Psyker is near a synapse creature or something

 Kain wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

Barrywise wrote:
What's this gonna do to Nid's with Biomancy?

Also if people want to pull off that big, warp charge 3 spell and they have to throw their entire pool at it that's gonna leave the other psykers hanging high and dry, making players feel like they wasted points, which I'm guessing will result in fewer but higher level psykers on the board making prime suspects for snipers. So now the challenge is keeping them safe while still being able to bring the pain.

Nids don't have Biomancy anymore.

Nids don't have anything but a single dinky table.

Meanwhile Daemons can abuse Divinitation and Biomancy and the Eldar have the best codex powers ever.

But Tyranids with Iron Arm?

Noooope.

Which is why I assume GW made an omission and run them with TK, TP, and Biomancy anyway.

Feth nerfing an already low tier army.

Step 1: Play Skyblight
Step 2: ??
Step 3: Profit!

While it doesn't fix the intrinsic issues with Tyranids, it is a very competitive build. It does suck that once again we are relegated to one single build to be competitive.

Pause at 1:08

Cry baby Eldar Jet Seer players. CRY!

I have renewed faith in GW.

 Sasori wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

Barrywise wrote:
What's this gonna do to Nid's with Biomancy?

Also if people want to pull off that big, warp charge 3 spell and they have to throw their entire pool at it that's gonna leave the other psykers hanging high and dry, making players feel like they wasted points, which I'm guessing will result in fewer but higher level psykers on the board making prime suspects for snipers. So now the challenge is keeping them safe while still being able to bring the pain.

Nids don't have Biomancy anymore.

Nids don't have anything but a single dinky table.

Meanwhile Daemons can abuse Divinitation and Biomancy and the Eldar have the best codex powers ever.

But Tyranids with Iron Arm?

Noooope.

Which is why I assume GW made an omission and run them with TK, TP, and Biomancy anyway.

Feth nerfing an already low tier army.

Step 1: Play Skyblight
Step 2: ??
Step 3: Profit!

While it doesn't fix the intrinsic issues with Tyranids, it is a very competitive build. It does suck that once again we are relegated to one single build to be competitive.

Skyblight spam + Biovore spam.

Blech.

There's a reason why I now have necron ranks.

At least this implacable horde has variety in comp lists without homebrew.

the only reason I'm still fretting this is that armies like Deamons that have multiple psykers can get an exorbitant amount of charges during their phase. so those 7 dice to spawn a new unit feels more possible.

 Selym wrote:

Barrywise wrote:
What's this gonna do to Nid's with Biomancy?

Also if people want to pull off that big, warp charge 3 spell and they have to throw their entire pool at it that's gonna leave the other psykers hanging high and dry, making players feel like they wasted points, which I'm guessing will result in fewer but higher level psykers on the board making prime suspects for snipers. So now the challenge is keeping them safe while still being able to bring the pain.

Yes... Psykers now seem more like a tactical decision than an "I can buff this thing to OP levels 9/10 times" kind of thing.

This. Psykers have been the go-to option for HQs since at least 5th ed, possibly 4th as well (I didn't play as much then though). Now at least there seems as if there'll be an actual choice between risky force multiplier or a choppy hero.

This just occurred to me.

But as a 1k sons army, and the capability of turning your psykers into Greater Daemons, hopefully it requires something absurd like 3 warp charge points, or 5, cuz I could just turn all my 1k sons sorcerers in each squad into a Greater Daemon =/

Makes them viable?

I think the part many people seem to be missing is that anything that prevents an "autotake" unit is a good thing. It keeps the game fresh, and you'll see different things. I hated 6th, but I'm quite looking forward to this. I guess I'll find out next week.

One thing I've just realized - Be'lakor is going to be an entirely different beast altogether in the new edition.
He gets taken for his ability to make super-heavies wish they'd never hit the table, and buffing valuable assets in your army.

I really hope he gets FAQ'd.

Along with the rest of the CSM dex.

GoliothOnline wrote:
This just occurred to me.

But as a 1k sons army, and the capability of turning your psykers into Greater Daemons, hopefully it requires something absurd like 3 warp charge points, or 5, cuz I could just turn all my 1k sons sorcerers in each squad into a Greater Daemon =/

Makes them viable?

It is a 3 warp charge power... so I would think you have to have a ML3 psychic to trigger it... then pass 3 rolls to generate the charges to cast it... So likely throwing a min of 6 of your dice pool. ( likely more) At that point your opponent is likely chucking the bulk of his warp pool to dtw your cast.

The real question, is who can bust out the cheapest ML3 psykers... to see who gains the most doing that.

 Roci wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
This just occurred to me.

But as a 1k sons army, and the capability of turning your psykers into Greater Daemons, hopefully it requires something absurd like 3 warp charge points, or 5, cuz I could just turn all my 1k sons sorcerers in each squad into a Greater Daemon =/

Makes them viable?

It is a 3 warp charge power... so I would think you have to have a ML3 psychic to trigger it... then pass 3 rolls to generate the charges to cast it... So likely throwing a min of 6 of your dice pool. ( likely more) At that point your opponent is likely chucking the bulk of his warp pool to dtw your cast.

The real question, is who can bust out the cheapest ML3 psykers... to see who gains the most doing that.

The answer to that, as we all know, is Unbound Daemons and CSM.

GoliothOnline wrote:
This just occurred to me.

But as a 1k sons army, and the capability of turning your psykers into Greater Daemons, hopefully it requires something absurd like 3 warp charge points, or 5, cuz I could just turn all my 1k sons sorcerers in each squad into a Greater Daemon =/

Makes them viable?

No because Thousand Sons sorcerers must take Tzeentch lore, and therefore cannot dip into Daemonology.

Yeah I was thinking heralds as well from Codex Daemons.

I mean a mastery lvl 3 Herald of Tzeentch is what like 115 points?

If you take an exalted reward just to drop the Porta Glyph and throw in a Disc of Tzeentch, 30 + 25 only comes out to 170 points.

Thats pretty scary for something that can be spammed up to what, 8 times in a conventional list? (4 taking up 1 HQ)

GoliothOnline wrote:
Yeah I was thinking heralds as well from Codex Daemons.

I mean a mastery lvl 3 Herald of Tzeentch is what like 115 points?

If you take an exalted reward just to drop the Porta Glyph and throw in a Disc of Tzeentch, 30 + 25 only comes out to 170 points.

Thats pretty scary for something that can be spammed up to what, 8 times in a conventional list? (4 taking up 1 HQ)

I think you can only take 4. The 4 takes one HQ slot, but you can't take two of them (this is my understanding as not a daemon player).

With unbound lists, I don't know if there will still be such limits.

ML3 Tzeentch Herald is 95 points and they are 4 per foc if deamons are primary.

ML 3 powers are going to be tough to cast without risking a perils, even more so if dispel dice are used.

Even level 2 will be a hazard against anyone with psyker defense.

I heard fortune is going up to 2 charges, if so that will be difficult because an opponent will throw everything they can at stopping it.

Any power that is 2 or more and a linch pin to the player's strategy is pretty much going to need 6 dice to cast.

 schadenfreude wrote:
I heard fortune is going up to 2 charges, if so that will be difficult because an opponent will throw everything they can at stopping it.

Any power that is 2 or more and a linch pin to the player's strategy is pretty much going to need 6 dice to cast.

Does that give them 6 DtW rolls? Or is that pulled from your own pool of Warp Charges?

Just wanted clarification

 SHUPPET wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
I heard fortune is going up to 2 charges, if so that will be difficult because an opponent will throw everything they can at stopping it.

Any power that is 2 or more and a linch pin to the player's strategy is pretty much going to need 6 dice to cast.

Does that give them 6 DtW rolls? Or is that pulled from your own pool of Warp Charges?

Just wanted clarification

It's pulled from the dispell pool of d6+psyker levels of dispel dice. Psykers and adamantium will gets a bonus to dispell working on a number lower than 6.

This is just conjecture but I think models may only be able to use a set # of dispell dice pert turn so there will be a limited number of good dispell dice used. It probably won't be able to shutdown all psychic powers but it should easily squash a single linchpin power.