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AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Mij'aan wrote:
Everyone I know in AUS working in similar fields also earns 40% more than me in the UK.
This translates into the price of beer and other items too. It's the cost of living in Australia...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lots of things are marked up in Australia for this very reason....

That's interesting, because I worked for a couple of years in the US and everyone working in similar fields earns only marginally less than I did. People in lower paying jobs (closer to minimum wage) tended to earn less, but then after talking to many of my friends we discovered that the luxury item spending money they had wasn't much less largely due to much lower rent costs in the area I was living over there compared to where I was living in Australia, also fuel and vehicles tended to be cheaper.

So much for random anecdotal evidence!

At what point did I mention the US?
In different parts of ENGLAND, the cost of living is different. In London, it can cost £500,000 for a house that, in yorkshire would cost £90,000. That said, when a product is sold within England, it is often the same flat price across the country.

Therefore, those in London working for more money but with a higher cost of living, enjoy the purchase of their product at a better % of their wage than those that live further north, in Yorkshire.
Example being, I earn around £1,300 per month. My friend works for the same company - in the same job role, but at a site in London. He gets at least £2,000 per month.
After food, rent, and essentials is out of the way - he is left with a larger chunk of his wage to spend on items. Example being he can buy more Warhammer than I can, because it's the same price across the country.

If GW could, (and successfully seperate us) they'd increase the price in areas like London and charge them far more for their products. Because the cost of living is higher, wages are higher etc.

In very very simple terms, This is what they are doing with Australia.

You didn't mention the US, I was just countering your random anecdotal evidence of a pricing disparity with my own random anecdotal evidence of a pricing disparity from the same company but differing countries. Just because you say people in your field earn much less in the UK than Australia it doesn't account for a hell of a lot.

I love Dakka, it's the one place in which people really love to argue and counter argue about the finest points.
Find me the average recommended retail price of a Coca Cola Can, Bottle of Jack Daniels, etc. You will find their prices are inflated. (in comparison to the UK) ...and other consumer products too. It's how the world works.

But nope. You don't want to discuss it you want hard evidence. The only hard evidence is this:

If GW can charge more, GW will charge more.

If there was a way to isolate north and south of england as pricing zones, and charge the south of england more in a bid for extra profit, they would, if they could. McDonalds is more expensive in the south, drinks are more expensive in bars, food is more expensive in super markets. Because you're not going to order a Big Mac from Sheffield and send it to your house in London are you?

But you could with GW products. You'd just order it in from the north wouldn't you?

So how does GW stop that? Put a ban on GW stockists from shipping outside the north of england? Not feesable you say.

But this is what they've done on a worldwide scale. I'm not saying I agree with it, but this is the reason for it. You can argue against me all you want, but the facts are clear. GW can charge more and will charge more.

 Mij'aan wrote:
I love Dakka, it's the one place in which people really love to argue and counter argue about the finest points.
Find me the average recommended retail price of a Coca Cola Can, Bottle of Jack Daniels, etc. You will find their prices are inflated. (in comparison to the UK) ...and other consumer products too. It's how the world works.

But nope. You don't want to discuss it you want hard evidence.

Coca-cola is produced locally and therefore uses local production costs - which is affected by local wages. Alcohol has widely varying tax rates and so is a bad comparison internationally for anything other than alcohol price.

I gave you hard evidence countering your argument regarding average wages in countries being the causal factor for GW price disparity and you didn't seem to want to discuss it.

 Yonan wrote:

 Mij'aan wrote:
I love Dakka, it's the one place in which people really love to argue and counter argue about the finest points.
Find me the average recommended retail price of a Coca Cola Can, Bottle of Jack Daniels, etc. You will find their prices are inflated. (in comparison to the UK) ...and other consumer products too. It's how the world works.

But nope. You don't want to discuss it you want hard evidence.

Coca-cola is produced locally and therefore uses local production costs - which is affected by local wages. Alcohol has widely varying tax rates and so is a bad comparison internationally for anything other than alcohol price.

I gave you hard evidence countering your argument regarding average wages in countries being the causal factor for GW price disparity and you didn't seem to want to discuss it.

Sorry mate but he is right about the UK pricing and while it's a load of crap that they do it, they get away with this kinda crap in every country they can.

Right specifically about what?

I know GW does it because they can get away with it - that's the point. They don't do it because wages are higher, costs are higher, whatever.

But they do Yonan. They do. Many companies do it. It's about how the economy is in that location.

They wouldn't charge more in Australia if people weren't able to pay more would they?

 Mij'aan wrote:
They wouldn't charge more in Australia if people weren't able to pay more would they?

*Willing* to pay more. In the west, ability to pay is pretty much a wash. That's the point. The data I provided showed that the average wage is higher in the US and GW models cost less. The yanks are able to pay more, but they don't pay more, they pay substantially less - that proves your argument wrong.

And not everyone's willing to pay more, just imagine how many sales they've lost from people refusing to buy more models or going to a difference source for them.

According to the following you guys pay more for everything.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/2014/03/05/everything-australia-expensive/

I especially liked the "can of coke" comparison at the bottom. Looks like it costs you twice what that does in the US.

WIth that in mind I really think these Aussi price discussions should be locked immediately. It isn't just GW that charges more, everyone does.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
And not everyone's willing to pay more, just imagine how many sales they've lost from people refusing to buy more models or going to a difference source for them.

As evidenced by a 4% drop in .. profit was it? for the Australian region compared to an increase in the US region.

clively wrote:
According to the following you guys pay more for everything.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/2014/03/05/everything-australia-expensive/

I especially liked the "can of coke" comparison at the bottom. Looks like it costs you twice what that does in the US.

WIth that in mind I really think these Aussi price discussions should be locked immediately. It isn't just GW that charges more, everyone does.

Exalted.

I think we can all agree that the pricing scheme they have is unfair towards the Australian consumers be it digitally or hard products. Its the old catch 22 argument, if they continue to raise the price of products to cover "costs" they drive away the consumers but if they drop the price to attract the consumer they possibly won't have enough to cover their "costs". But in saying that have they already pissed off their consumers enough to damage their sales? time will tell really.

 Mij'aan wrote:
Exalted.

You exalt the arguments rebutted *on the same page* that you continue to ignore? Time to click another button near the exalt I think. It is pointless trying to engage with you.

 Yonan wrote:

 Mij'aan wrote:
Exalted.

You exalt the arguments rebutted *on the same page* that you continue to ignore? Time to click another button near the exalt I think. It is pointless trying to engage with you.

No my friend, it's pointless trying to discuss it with you.
My point is laid bare before you and has now been highlighted by other people, I won't continue to engage you in conversation regarding it beyond this point however.
You don't have to take everything so personal...

Items cost more in Australia, it's not just GW that does it. End of topic.

 Mij'aan wrote:

Items cost more in Australia, it's not just GW that does it. End of topic.

How dare you tell the truth

 Mij'aan wrote:
Items cost more in Australia, it's not just GW that does it. End of topic.

There's a difference though. Electronics are another example of this gouging where things cost more because it's Australia. But it's universal. There is nowhere you can buy a TV here that isn't inflated like that, nowhere to get your iPad that doesn't cost you a chunk more. All the retailers have got together and decided that's the way it'll be.

But that's not true of wargaming. In fact it's only GW that has attempted to do this. It'd be like Sony deciding to up the costs on everything relating to Playstations by 40-50% while Microsoft and Nintendo sell for a more reasonable price. People want to play those Playstation exclusives and it does have the best hardware but that value is not limitless.

So it's not the end of the discussion because the corollary is that GW is costing itself customers while the other gougers aren't. People are realising that if they skip a few GW purchases they can build entire armies for other games and those games are no longer as difficult to find as they once were.

clively wrote:
. It isn't just GW that charges more, everyone does.

Except 'everyone' doesn't.

Many companies do, certainly. But there is a growing awareness that people aren't happy with that state of affairs. And as internet shopping becomes a more widely accepted practice, allowing people to circumvent the local prices, companies are slowly starting to realise that they can't continue to set their prices using 15-year-old exchange rates as a baseline and pocketing the difference.

Some companies are fighting it by lobbying the government to add GST to all imports (which the Customs office has said would cost them more to run than they would bring in from it, and which wouldn't actually fix anything since adding 10% to the price of something that is twice as expensive locally still makes it cheaper...), some are just complaining that people are being all 'un-Australian' by not supporting the local businesses that are trying in an apparently very Australian way to gouge them for every cent they can... and others are accepting that the retail world is changing and adjusting to suit.

And the reason this is happening is because people are talking about it.


Change doesn't happen by stifling discussion.

 insaniak wrote:
And the reason this is happening is because people are talking about it.
Change doesn't happen by stifling discussion.

Exactly, much <3

This topic won't convince GW. It might make more Australians aware of the practice and the alternatives, which will cut into GWAUs profits which *will* convince GW.

 insaniak wrote:

clively wrote:
. It isn't just GW that charges more, everyone does.

Except 'everyone' doesn't.

Many companies do, certainly. But there is a growing awareness that people aren't happy with that state of affairs. And as internet shopping becomes a more widely accepted practice, allowing people to circumvent the local prices, companies are slowly starting to realise that they can't continue to set their prices using 15-year-old exchange rates as a baseline and pocketing the difference.

Some companies are fighting it by lobbying the government to add GST to all imports (which the Customs office has said would cost them more to run than they would bring in from it, and which wouldn't actually fix anything since adding 10% to the price of something that is twice as expensive locally still makes it cheaper...), some are just complaining that people are being all 'un-Australian' by not supporting the local businesses that are trying in an apparently very Australian way to gouge them for every cent they can... and others are accepting that the retail world is changing and adjusting to suit.

And the reason this is happening is because people are talking about it.


Change doesn't happen by stifling discussion.

Well said old chap.

Yeah, many things cost more in Australia... many things also don't, wargames is one thing where for the most part it doesn't cost more in Australia outside of GW.

I'm not sure why we have to accept it and move on just because a few people are stuck in the mindset that everything has to cost more in Australia just because it's Australia. It seems to me that across the board more people are importing when companies try and rip us off for no good reason and I'd like to see that continue until the likes of GW institute a better international pricing scheme.

The fact they closed down international sales does not make me like them any more, it wasn't that many years ago I ordered something direct from UK GW to Australia. Also that they actively screwed over my FLGS on many occasions (an odd coincidence that there was an official GW store nearby? perhaps).

Compare this to a video game developer like CD Projekt who went out of their way to try and get around the publisher to offer games cheaper to Australians, I am a vocal supporter of them for their business practices the same way I'm a vocal detractor of GW's business practices.

If we can get more Brits and American's here that aren't affected by this in any way to let us know how unimportant it is and that we should just deal with it, I think that would greatly continue to add to the discussion.

So today I went down to my friendly local games store and bought some Hordes models for roughly the same price as they cost in the UK, US, or anywhere else in the world.

oh really? I just went down to my local games store (not a gw) and paid $140 for the new 40k rulebook. Which I might add all I want is the rules not all of the fluff that I've already read in the last two editions. so realistically the rule book should only be around $70 or so....


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PrinceRaven I love your banner. I even read it in Aku's voice.

Maybe we just ask the government for a royal commission into GW pricing.....

Sounds reasonable Zagaboff...

In this thread: people who fail economics.

GW will attempt maximise their profit. If they can do that by charging high prices in Australia and selling to a low number of customers, they will. If it means selling models for $1 the US and $100 in Australia, they will, if they can. Companies try to segregate markets like this all the time (air plane tickets are the notorious example, where you can pay half the price of the person sitting next to you for ostensibly the same service). It is just getting more difficult to segregate markets by geographical boundaries as online shopping becomes mainstream and previously stable exchange rates change.

Currently it seems that Australians are willing to pay a higher numerical value for GW products than people in other areas of the world. Whether that is because we have greater purchasing power/ more disposable income, or perhaps as a culture we just like expensive products more than cheap ones?

 PrinceRaven wrote:
So today I went down to my friendly local games store and bought some Hordes models for roughly the same price as they cost in the UK, US, or anywhere else in the world.

Privateer Press, and most other manufacturers, do not have a regional pricing strategy. Australian distributors buy at international wholesale prices and retailers are expected to come up with their own prices based on their wholesale price or manufacturer RRP. FLGS are encouraged to have prices close to the international RRP because the manufacturer have not been able to successfully segregate the market, unlike GW.

Trasvi wrote:
Currently it seems that Australians are willing to pay a higher numerical value for GW products than people in other areas of the world.

Evidence suggests otherwise. Australia actually skipped the last couple of price hikes before the new attitude of 'we're totally not raising prices any more except when we do anything to a box', and new kits tend to be closer to US prices than ever before. They're still higher though, and in some cases ridiculously so (like the books).

So there's evidence that Australians aren't willing to pay more, and GW have passed us over for some significant hikes in favor of using Australia as the new baseline, as other regions are now catching up to us. However, there is still disparity in prices, sometimes large, that Australians are still sick of paying.

We'll see what happens when the rest of the world catches up to us.

We understand that they're overcharging because they want money. But it doesn't take an economics degree to tell that when it comes to the point where your minis are so overpriced in one region that it's cheaper for your consumers to buy them in another region and import them themselves you're gonna have issues.

Trasvi wrote:
In this thread: people who fail economics.

We fully understand *why* GW are doing this - we've spent 7 pages saying so. You must fail at reading comprehension rather than us failing at economics (amusing but I'll refrain from saying why) if you don't realize this

We're saying it's not right - for the consumer - and we have the power to change it. If we can't change it, we're ensuring people know the alternatives so they don't need to pay it, which may end up resulting in the change we want. We're also just having a good ole whinge.

edit: Thirding the rebuttals that we aren't willing to pay more, supported by the data given earlier in this thread that AU profits are falling compared to increasing elsewhere, combined with the skipping of price hikes mentioned by Loki.