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Could the IOM launch an offensive operation into the Eye of Terror or would any fleets or armies just be shredded when they entered "less than real" space? Could small scale operations sneak in?

Zookie wrote:
Could the IOM launch an offensive operation into the Eye of Terror or would any fleets or armies just be shredded when they entered "less than real" space? Could small scale operations sneak in?

There have been instances. A large scale Space Marine penitent crusade attempted it (most of the chapters were either turned to Chaos or destroyed), the Space Wolves 13th company (devolved mostly to Wulfen to prevent falling to Chaos), and the occasional squad level (or smaller) penitent crusade (ex: Uriel Ventris).

Generally bad things happen to them.

They have tried numerous times, generally with disastrous results. The larger the force sent in, the worse it goes.

Throwing men and material into the Eye of Terror only bolsters Chaos and any damage they do would most likely be repaired within the year. They would be better off simply blowing up anyone who tried leaving and keep the threat contained.

If you used mostly servitors, machinery and such?

A brain dead robot cannot be turned by chaos gods, yes tech preist can but a strongly cybernetic and robotic force may stand better odds. Use a modified grey knights class cruiser with full warding, n such.

jhe90 wrote:
If you used mostly servitors, machinery and such?

A brain dead robot cannot be turned by chaos gods, yes tech preist can but a strongly cybernetic and robotic force may stand better odds. Use a modified grey knights class cruiser with full warding, n such.

Machine Spirits and all that can be turned, too, and otherwise they can easily be disabled by scrapcode.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
If you used mostly servitors, machinery and such?

A brain dead robot cannot be turned by chaos gods, yes tech preist can but a strongly cybernetic and robotic force may stand better odds. Use a modified grey knights class cruiser with full warding, n such.

Machine Spirits and all that can be turned, too, and otherwise they can easily be disabled by scrapcode.

OK so no way round it. Basically chaos could camp in the eye and basicly be totally safe from impirial attacks. Only race I think may stand a chance is maybe necrons, they are unique in being living metal, don't,t rely on warp drives, n have as I understand no prescense chaos can use against.

The Wulfen have always been one of my favourite pieces of Space Wolf fluff. From the looks of the new psychic Daemon powers, IF it's available to my Wolves, I'm going to ask the guys I play with if I can proxy some Wulfen type models and use one of the Daemon stats (whichever is most combat-y to match the Wulfen fighting style) in place of going out and having to actually buy Daemons.

It did.

It didn't come back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It was called the Abyssal Crusade. 30 Space Marine Chapters marched into the EOT after being told they had suffered warp taint. Most of them are now Chaos Marines.

Chaos corrupts, and willingly going into the Eye is like walking into Mcdonald's with incredibly high blood pressure. It will probably kill you.

 welshhoppo wrote:
It did.

It didn't come back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It was called the Abyssal Crusade. 30 Space Marine Chapters marched into the EOT after being told they had suffered warp taint. Most of them are now Chaos Marines.

Chaos corrupts, and willingly going into the Eye is like walking into Mcdonald's with incredibly high blood pressure. It will probably kill you.

Vorpal Swords made it out, brother.

Someone should tell the Necrons to build loads of Pylons. That might shrink it down over a period of time, right?

Problem is they don't care.

A large enough Imperial incursion could probably sweep out the majority of traitors hiding out in the eye.

But that's not tenable for the Imperium right now. The amount of resources they would have to expend to do that would pretty much cripple their military on a galactic scale. They'd be at the mercy of every other xenos out there.

 Pyeatt wrote:

Vorpal Swords made it out, brother.

He did say 'most' not all.

To quote the chaos codex: "A representative from each of the doomed Chapters held an emergency Council of Dismay to discuss the proposed crusade. After scant hours of debate they acquiesced to Basillius' demands, for they believed that martyrdom was preferable to an existence of suspicion and doubt."

30,000 Astartes. Likely one of the largest musters of Space Marines since the Horus Heresy itself, and the marines regarded it - pretty accurately - as a suicide mission. It's been almost 11,000 years since the foul traitor legions were banished, if the Imperium of Man was ever capable of clearing out the Eye it would have happened by now.

The Eye of Terror isn't - well, give Matt Ward time - Toontown from Who Framed Roger Rabbit. It's all of Clive Barkers worst nightmares rolled into one bad acid trip. The Ordo Malleus once sent an Inquisitor in for a recce, when his ship came out his report was written on the walls of his quarters in his own blood. Sure you can invade, but you'll be losing men to mutation and insanity faster than the warp fueled veterans of long war can kill them, and when you're done there'll be just as many mutants and madmen left in the eye as when you started, tho the Administratum will deny it.

Fair point. The way I had read it was to mean most of them were corrupted and the rest were destroyed. Call it a late-night reading mistake.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
The Wulfen have always been one of my favourite pieces of Space Wolf fluff. From the looks of the new psychic Daemon powers, IF it's available to my Wolves, I'm going to ask the guys I play with if I can proxy some Wulfen type models and use one of the Daemon stats (whichever is most combat-y to match the Wulfen fighting style) in place of going out and having to actually buy Daemons.

This is more fluffy than any other version of running it.

Anyone who says no to this is being a dick.

In theory, the Imperium can defeat any single foe in the setting; they've got more force than most of them combined. The problem with the Eye is the Eye itself. The traitor legions, lost and the damned and the like don't stand a chance one on one with the Imperium, but the Imperium can't overcome the warp itself, at least not practically. Sure, if they threw every talented psyker, inquisitor and arcane Mechanicus device at the Eye, they might do something to it, and cripple the Imperium in the process.

The Eye of Terror is what has allowed the various Chaos forces to launch such audacious campaigns against an objectively superior foe time and time again because they have an impenetrable fortress, not one made of walls, armies and gun batteries, but of reality-destroying impossibilities. It's what makes the forces of Chaos so dangerous; you can destroy every ship, kill every soldier, burn every traitor legionnaire, and it would not matter. So long as a single dark mechanicus adept, chaos space marine or other traitor lives, they can withdraw into a place the Imperium simply can not go, and rebuild. The Imperium can forstall Chaos offensives by attacking the outer reaches of the Eye, but the deepest parts are accessible only those favoured by the dark gods, and not even the combined might of every Imperial battlefleet, which doubtlessly outnumbers the armadas of Chaos a hundred times over and then some can blast through hell itself.

No other force in 40k has the same degree of durability the Eye of Terror, and the Maelstrom for that fact, provide. They all have tangible, destroyable bases, whether they be Tomb Worlds, Craftworld, Septs, but Chaos can withdraw to a hole in reality. Theoretically, the Imperium could, with finality, destroy any other single foe in the galaxy, but even if Chaos stood alone, the Imperium could not wipe them clean.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
In theory, the Imperium can defeat any single foe in the setting; they've got more force than most of them combined.

I've never seen anything that remotely supports this in the fluff. The only race this is attributed to is the Orks, and even then, I don't buy it. Tyranids say hi?

MarsNZ wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
In theory, the Imperium can defeat any single foe in the setting; they've got more force than most of them combined.

I've never seen anything that remotely supports this in the fluff. The only race this is attributed to is the Orks, and even then, I don't buy it. Tyranids say hi?

The Imperium is the largest and most powerful political entity in the galaxy, consisting of at least a million worlds, which are dispersed across most of the Milky Way Galaxy.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperium_of_Man#.U3nEqCimWyc

It's stronger than even that in my opinion. If you have the resouces and technology to colonize a million worlds, surely all this time after the Great Crusade, you'd be able to colonize hundreds of millions more. Past a certain point, the population of mankind will breed like bacteria, or fungus. If you have the ability to colonize a million worlds, you'd be able to live on asteroids and harvest resources on uninhabitable planets, You'd be able to build your own self-sufficient space stations. I think the Imperium has trouble with its enemies not because they're stronger, but because of corruption and strife from within. The Imperium is a behemoth of an empire. The most likely reason for its inefficiency is the very thing that makes it strong. Its tens of trillions, maybe even centillions of people.

Your link doesn't support the numbers you're theorising.

I'll raise you a quote from the very same webpage you linked

Although their society is entirely primitive and brutal, the Orkoid race is also the most successful species in the whole Galaxy, outnumbering possibly every other race. However, due to their aggressive and warlike nature, this massive race is split into hundreds of tiny empires, warring as much between themselves as against other races. In the purely theoretical event all the Orks were to unite, they would undoubtedly crush all opposition.

MarsNZ wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
In theory, the Imperium can defeat any single foe in the setting; they've got more force than most of them combined.

I've never seen anything that remotely supports this in the fluff. The only race this is attributed to is the Orks, and even then, I don't buy it. Tyranids say hi?

It's been a consistent facet of the fluff that the Imperium is stronger than any single foe they face. It is only due to the multitude of powerful foes that they face which prevents decisive victorious. The Tyranids would require an enormous percentage of the Imperium's capacity to defeat decisively, allowing Orks, Eldar, and Chaos to run rampant. The same applies to any other faction, with each representing a varying degree of difficulty. This is an empire which through sheer inertia has continued to expand in spite of the enormous array of threats posed to it.

Make no mistake, the Imperium is the most powerful force in the 40k universe, but the degree by which it is more powerful than its foes is not consistent, nor sufficient as to allow it to outright defeat most of the "major" threats. They do, however, regularly extinguish lesser Xeno civilizations like the Tau on a regular basis. In relation to the topic here, Chaos is interesting in that even if every other threat to the Imperium dissapeared, the Imperium could not fully defeat Chaos. Contain it within the Eye, certainly, but all their power means nothing next to the warp.

 Pyeatt wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
It did.

It didn't come back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It was called the Abyssal Crusade. 30 Space Marine Chapters marched into the EOT after being told they had suffered warp taint. Most of them are now Chaos Marines.

Chaos corrupts, and willingly going into the Eye is like walking into Mcdonald's with incredibly high blood pressure. It will probably kill you.

Vorpal Swords made it out, brother.

Guess they had business to attend with a Jabberwocky.

 Selym wrote:

 Pyeatt wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
It did.

It didn't come back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It was called the Abyssal Crusade. 30 Space Marine Chapters marched into the EOT after being told they had suffered warp taint. Most of them are now Chaos Marines.

Chaos corrupts, and willingly going into the Eye is like walking into Mcdonald's with incredibly high blood pressure. It will probably kill you.

Vorpal Swords made it out, brother.

Guess they had business to attend with a Jabberwocky.

Maybe they went in to find the Bandersnatch?

There is a novel which features an imperial expedition to land troops in the eye of terror (the novel is called "eye of terror").

It went very badly, with the ground forces being immediately overwhelmed.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A large enough Imperial incursion could probably sweep out the majority of traitors hiding out in the eye.

But that's not tenable for the Imperium right now. The amount of resources they would have to expend to do that would pretty much cripple their military on a galactic scale. They'd be at the mercy of every other xenos out there.

A large enough Imperial incursion would rapidly be defeated as a third of the loyal troops turn to chaos, a third go stark raving mad, and the remaining third is cut to pieces by the local inhabitants and the first third.

MarsNZ wrote:
Your link doesn't support the numbers you're theorising.

I'll raise you a quote from the very same webpage you linked

Although their society is entirely primitive and brutal, the Orkoid race is also the most successful species in the whole Galaxy, outnumbering possibly every other race. However, due to their aggressive and warlike nature, this massive race is split into hundreds of tiny empires, warring as much between themselves as against other races. In the purely theoretical event all the Orks were to unite, they would undoubtedly crush all opposition.

Thats cause I'm not guessing based off fluff. How many people are on earth? How many are to come in the next ten years? How much older can the elder get within the next twenty years without organ failure? My guess is the Imperium of man numbers hundreds of trillions strong, centillions. I stick by my opinion.

I'm pretty sure that, after the assortment of failed assaults on the Eye of Terror, the Imperium has resolved that the best course of action is to just take the defensive against Chaos rather than trying to hit them on their home turf. After all, going into the Warp has more dangers than just the military forces of Chaos; the very world around you will seek to corrupt you, body and soul.

On defensive they have a major batlefleet, backed by the fortress world of cadia.

But a strike on fleet assets may be more way, taking planets does not do as much as destroying there transports, battle fleets and maybe even taking down a infamous ship like terminus eat or the vengeful spirit, monsters of dark days of heresy

Regarding the strength of the Imperium, while it may be stronger than everyone else, its major flaw is that the impenetrable bureaucracy means it can't reliably bring that strength to bear on less than a decade's notice. The Imperium may be theoretically more politically unified than the Orks, but in reality it's every bit as divided into petty fiefdoms and factions. The major advantage is that internal struggles are mostly waged with words rather than bolts.

The only faction that the Imperium could definitely wipe out if they chose to is the Tau. The Orks are too dispersed throughout the galaxy to bring decisive force to bear on them. The Necrons are much the same, but with the added disadvantage that the Imperium can't even find them unless they're already mobilized for war. The Eldar are far too good at hiding, whether moving craftworlds to avoid discovery or skulking in the Webway. The Imperium may be able to wipe out the Tyranids, but without any way to estimate their numbers beyond the galactic rim they'd never know until one side or the other was already on the verge of destruction. And Chaos can't be effectively attacked in its strongholds, and even if it could it springs up secretly on dozens of worlds every day.

 Exergy wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A large enough Imperial incursion could probably sweep out the majority of traitors hiding out in the eye.

But that's not tenable for the Imperium right now. The amount of resources they would have to expend to do that would pretty much cripple their military on a galactic scale. They'd be at the mercy of every other xenos out there.

A large enough Imperial incursion would rapidly be defeated as a third of the loyal troops turn to chaos, a third go stark raving mad, and the remaining third is cut to pieces by the local inhabitants and the first third.

The single third that didn't turn to Chaos or go stark raving mad would be enough to crush all opposition in the Eye.

Such is the scale of the Imperium.

jhe90 wrote:
If you used mostly servitors, machinery and such?

A brain dead robot cannot be turned by chaos gods, yes tech preist can but a strongly cybernetic and robotic force may stand better odds. Use a modified grey knights class cruiser with full warding, n such.

There are daemons that take the form of malefic code that can, and do, possess machines. Mindless creatures also cannot summon the force of will to resist the corrupting effects of the Warp, so what happens is all your servitors and robots start growing tentacles and twisting into mutated forms. Worse, some gain sentience... murderously malefic sentience.