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Been tried, failed miserably. Fleet moved in unopposed, dropped half a million troops. Started getting reports of bad things happening. A huge daemon forged fleet appears out of nowhere and attacks heedless of loss. Fleet orbitally bombards its own troops to save them from chaos and the admiral and what few surviving ships remained limped back to fleet HQ where the Admiral opens an artifact, I forget how he obtained it, and gets sucked into the warp.

No amount of troops would be effective where real space and chaos overlap, Since deamons are created by thier gods from the warp itself.

You might be able to destroy a planet or two before traitor fleeets and gigantic spaceship sized deamons finially corner you or force you to run for it. but since your ship enters the very warp your trying to flee I don't thik you'll get far.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

As of the 5th Edition Necron Codex the Necrons have overthrown the C'tan and shattered them into weaker Shards. They no longer (generally at least) serve them; neither do most want to exterminate all life.

Besides that, even before the 5th Edition Codex the C'tan never wanted to kill everything. They wanted to farm living beings. Chaos triumphing over the galaxy would put the C'tan in a bad position anyway; their control over the Materium would mean less when the Immaterium seeps through.

I'm obviously only considerung TruCron fluff as canon. As every TruCron player does

The C'tan want to farm living beings, but in the end, it all boils down to the same; them reaping weaker (read: all) races. Their minions, the Necrons, however are driven by their deep hate for all life alone and would gladly see put an end to all of it. I'm interested, though, what would happen if they succeed - can the C'Tan actually interfere with the warp? Unlike the Chaos Gods, they aren't empowered by their believers, they are gods on their own and therefore, manipulating the warp seems unlikely for them. In the end, I guess the Nightbringer simply swallows the physical universe whole or the Outsider destroys it when he fully returns from his self-chosen exile.

That's one of the most interesting parts of the fluff to me - what is the relation between Chaos and Necrons when it boils down to it? Chaos cannot influence the Necrons or C'Tan in any way but on the other hand, the Necrons cannot manipulate the warp in any way (at least not in a meaningful way, they do possess abilities to suppress of weaken its physical effects). I want more lore on that!

 welshhoppo wrote:
True, but the eye is a place where you can die and are reborn! Death is only the beginning when you are trapped in that purple blemish of hell. You might exterminate a planet but an identical one might take its place if the gods were offended enough. Plus destroying an entire planet? Not even an exterminatus can do that. It requires enough power to overcome the force of gravity.

in the eye the daemon worlds can be remade to suit the whim of Chaos. They could also be remade to resist any possible attack or remade to be rebuilt.



Destruction doesn't do much if rebuilding is so easy.

Sure you could try and kill all the CSM, but Space Marines don't die to bombardment. No where in the fluff is a Chapter, Legion, or even small band defeated by bombardment.

 welshhoppo wrote:
True, but the eye is a place where you can die and are reborn! Death is only the beginning when you are trapped in that purple blemish of hell. You might exterminate a planet but an identical one might take its place if the gods were offended enough. Plus destroying an entire planet? Not even an exterminatus can do that. It requires enough power to overcome the force of gravity.

Death may only be the beginning regardless of where you die. Typically the souls of the dead enter the Warp; favoured servants of the Ruinous Powers may be brought back to life no matter where they died unless their soul is trapped (such as in a soul stone) or destroyed (such as when the Emperor destroyed Horus' soul). Still, it takes power to resurrect and the Ruinous Powers are not often obliging. After all, they'll survive regardless of what happens to the Eye of Terror. Some cyclonic torpedoes do shatter the planet (though typically something like the life-eater virus is deployed). Even if they don't destroy the planet itself killing everything on its surface is a reasonably thorough solution. It would certainly cripple the forces of Chaos.

I'll say it again.

Pylons. Lots and lots of pylons surrounding The Eye and as it gradually reduces in size they are brough inexorably closer and closer.

It may take "a while" but the Necrons are the only ones with the ability and time to make it happen.

But why would they do so?

 Sigvatr wrote:
But why would they do so?

less competition for the people when it comes time to reap the universe?

 Sigvatr wrote:

The C'tan want to farm living beings, but in the end, it all boils down to the same; them reaping weaker (read: all) races. Their minions, the Necrons, however are driven by their deep hate for all life alone and would gladly see put an end to all of it. I'm interested, though, what would happen if they succeed - can the C'Tan actually interfere with the warp? Unlike the Chaos Gods, they aren't empowered by their believers, they are gods on their own and therefore, manipulating the warp seems unlikely for them. In the end, I guess the Nightbringer simply swallows the physical universe whole or the Outsider destroys it when he fully returns from his self-chosen exile.

No it doesn't. The C'tan would fight the Tyranids to prevent the eradication of all life. They'd also not want the galaxy to be enveloped by the Warp. The C'tan don't have the power to destroy the universe. Even if they actively tried it'd take too long.

Exergy wrote:in the eye the daemon worlds can be remade to suit the whim of Chaos. They could also be remade to resist any possible attack or remade to be rebuilt.

Even in the Eye the Ruinous Powers are not omnipotent.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

Exergy wrote:in the eye the daemon worlds can be remade to suit the whim of Chaos. They could also be remade to resist any possible attack or remade to be rebuilt.

Even in the Eye the Ruinous Powers are not omnipotent.

They aren't but think of it this way. The Chaos gods can manipulate things anywhere in the galaxy, but it comes with a cost in power, energy to breach the distance between real space and the warp. The costs of doing business are higher in some places and lower in others. In the eye the cost of such manipulation is low, so low that it might be less than the cost of building and transporting a fleet of WMDs. No matter how vast the IoM is, it's resources are finite and it's ability to project power limited.

Take the US, a very large and powerful country. Building it's nuclear arsenal took decades and a huge portion of the defense budget. Maintaining it still takes a large portion of the budget. The bombs are estimated to cost about $35 million dollars each, roughly twice their weight in gold. 1% of the total budget goes to maintaining the stock of bombs. This is just for the bombs, nothing about a delivery system.

40k seems to have all sorts of horrible weapons that can end whole planets, but they would no doubt be difficult to produce and maintain.

So the IoM could create a whole slew of bombs, transport them near the eye, lose some(chaotic malfunction), have some corrupted and repurposed(turned on IoM planets) and the rest go through and do some damage, but the cost the forces of chaos would have to pay to rebuild their worlds would be low, while those weapons that were corrupted and unleased on IoM planets would inflict signifigant hardship on the Imperium.

 Sigvatr wrote:
But why would they do so?

Because the Warp is the only thing that could possibly threaten their existence so without the Eye they'd be a lot safer in that area plus it means more safe area for them.

No they wouldn't get through the gates. There is a good reason why they don't. I.E. madness being the biggest problem. Ambushes and the biggest problem is that it is so difficult to get out and retreat.

They could. They could also catapult guardsmen at Ghazghull Thraka for all the good it would do them.

pm713 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
But why would they do so?

Because the Warp is the only thing that could possibly threaten their existence so without the Eye they'd be a lot safer in that area plus it means more safe area for them.

Huh? Why is the Warp the only thing threatening them? They are completely immune to its effects, both the Necrons and the C'Tan. What actually threatens the Necrons is the destruction of their tomb worlds and that can be done with regular weaponry aka planet destroyers. Well, "regular".

 Sigvatr wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
But why would they do so?

Because the Warp is the only thing that could possibly threaten their existence so without the Eye they'd be a lot safer in that area plus it means more safe area for them.

Huh? Why is the Warp the only thing threatening them? They are completely immune to its effects, both the Necrons and the C'Tan. What actually threatens the Necrons is the destruction of their tomb worlds and that can be done with regular weaponry aka planet destroyers. Well, "regular".

As i remember they were weaker to warp based attacks than other attacks which was why they tried blocking the warp off. May not be canon now though.

MarsNZ wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
In theory, the Imperium can defeat any single foe in the setting; they've got more force than most of them combined.

I've never seen anything that remotely supports this in the fluff. The only race this is attributed to is the Orks, and even then, I don't buy it. Tyranids say hi?

This is old fluff. Its ALWAYS been that the Imperium could defeat any single foe but they cant do it because they are too busy fighting nearly 10 major enemy powers all at the same time. Even with this the Imperium is just barely holding the line (or slowly lossing ground depending on which side of the fluff you are on)

This is the same as the Orks which if they ever UNITED they could win

Or the Tyranids which if their entire fleet showed up at the exact same time they would win.

Or Chaos if the Emperor died and was not reborn.

The Eldar and Tau dont have a chance even in the best case but thats it.

What kind of effect would we expect the Hive Mind/Shadow in the Warp to have on the Eye of Terror, or vice versa?

 Psienesis wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
If you used mostly servitors, machinery and such?

A brain dead robot cannot be turned by chaos gods, yes tech preist can but a strongly cybernetic and robotic force may stand better odds. Use a modified grey knights class cruiser with full warding, n such.

There are daemons that take the form of malefic code that can, and do, possess machines. Mindless creatures also cannot summon the force of will to resist the corrupting effects of the Warp, so what happens is all your servitors and robots start growing tentacles and twisting into mutated forms. Worse, some gain sentience... murderously malefic sentience.

Plus there's also the ability of Chaos to simply shred any ship stupid enough to either lack the psyker defenses of the Eldar (coupled with stealth) or gellar fields. And even if you have gellar fields, daemons are still capable of slamming the shield until it eventually breaks, and they pour in.

Anything that enters the Immaterium is fair game for hungry daemons. Your only real defense is not drawing attentiong and fleeing the minute anything even notices you. Also, as for Tyranids, they'd just get devoured if they enter the immaterium and lose connection to the Hive Mind. They're only able to beat daemons in combat due to daemons being severely weakened by entering the materium in physical forms- it's just a matter of the Tyranids drowning them in bodies. In the Warp? If your gellar fields are down, daemons can simply turn your ship inside out and devour everything inside.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
If you used mostly servitors, machinery and such?

A brain dead robot cannot be turned by chaos gods, yes tech preist can but a strongly cybernetic and robotic force may stand better odds. Use a modified grey knights class cruiser with full warding, n such.

There are daemons that take the form of malefic code that can, and do, possess machines. Mindless creatures also cannot summon the force of will to resist the corrupting effects of the Warp, so what happens is all your servitors and robots start growing tentacles and twisting into mutated forms. Worse, some gain sentience... murderously malefic sentience.

Plus there's also the ability of Chaos to simply shred any ship stupid enough to either lack the psyker defenses of the Eldar (coupled with stealth) or gellar fields. And even if you have gellar fields, daemons are still capable of slamming the shield until it eventually breaks, and they pour in.

Anything that enters the Immaterium is fair game for hungry daemons. Your only real defense is not drawing attentiong and fleeing the minute anything even notices you. Also, as for Tyranids, they'd just get devoured if they enter the immaterium and lose connection to the Hive Mind. They're only able to beat daemons in combat due to daemons being severely weakened by entering the materium in physical forms- it's just a matter of the Tyranids drowning them in bodies. In the Warp? If your gellar fields are down, daemons can simply turn your ship inside out and devour everything inside.

Hmm, kinda close to what I meant but not exactly. The Shadow in the Warp keeps warp beings inside the warp, and for most psykers it feels as though the warp itself has been completely blocked off. So would the Shadow in the Warp have any effect on the Eye of Terror itself is what I'm asking? My guess is no because the Eye is where the warp has already broken through to the material realm, but I'm just throwing it out there for discussion.

 Orblivion wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
If you used mostly servitors, machinery and such?

A brain dead robot cannot be turned by chaos gods, yes tech preist can but a strongly cybernetic and robotic force may stand better odds. Use a modified grey knights class cruiser with full warding, n such.

There are daemons that take the form of malefic code that can, and do, possess machines. Mindless creatures also cannot summon the force of will to resist the corrupting effects of the Warp, so what happens is all your servitors and robots start growing tentacles and twisting into mutated forms. Worse, some gain sentience... murderously malefic sentience.

Plus there's also the ability of Chaos to simply shred any ship stupid enough to either lack the psyker defenses of the Eldar (coupled with stealth) or gellar fields. And even if you have gellar fields, daemons are still capable of slamming the shield until it eventually breaks, and they pour in.

Anything that enters the Immaterium is fair game for hungry daemons. Your only real defense is not drawing attentiong and fleeing the minute anything even notices you. Also, as for Tyranids, they'd just get devoured if they enter the immaterium and lose connection to the Hive Mind. They're only able to beat daemons in combat due to daemons being severely weakened by entering the materium in physical forms- it's just a matter of the Tyranids drowning them in bodies. In the Warp? If your gellar fields are down, daemons can simply turn your ship inside out and devour everything inside.

Hmm, kinda close to what I meant but not exactly. The Shadow in the Warp keeps warp beings inside the warp, and for most psykers it feels as though the warp itself has been completely blocked off. So would the Shadow in the Warp have any effect on the Eye of Terror itself is what I'm asking? My guess is no because the Eye is where the warp has already broken through to the material realm, but I'm just throwing it out there for discussion.

Definetly not. Nids entering the Eye leave the materium completely, and thus would have their connection to the hive mind severed. Their only hope would be having enough synapse to form their own mini shadow to prevent themselves from either being routed or shredded by Daemons.

 Orblivion wrote:


Hmm, kinda close to what I meant but not exactly. The Shadow in the Warp keeps warp beings inside the warp, and for most psykers it feels as though the warp itself has been completely blocked off. So would the Shadow in the Warp have any effect on the Eye of Terror itself is what I'm asking? My guess is no because the Eye is where the warp has already broken through to the material realm, but I'm just throwing it out there for discussion.

IIRC SITW works differently. The psykic communication floods the local real-warp connection with such a powerful communication other psykers have trouble making their own connection.

If they went into the eye, where the connection to the warp is much stronger/more accessable they would probably be shredded just like everything else.

Right. SITW is not psychic null-space, the Hive Mind is not an Untouchable. It's "psychic static" caused by so many billions/trillions of minds in a given area that disrupts the "standard" signal from the Warp to Realspace (and vice versa)... but taking the "white noise generator" of the SITW into the Warp itself is a whole new ballgame. There, that static can just join the cacophony of a literally infinite number of voices gibbering madness and blasphemies within the Warp itself.

The Hive Mind itself may well be driven mad.

 Psienesis wrote:
Right. SITW is not psychic null-space, the Hive Mind is not an Untouchable. It's "psychic static" caused by so many billions/trillions of minds in a given area that disrupts the "standard" signal from the Warp to Realspace (and vice versa)... but taking the "white noise generator" of the SITW into the Warp itself is a whole new ballgame. There, that static can just join the cacophony of a literally infinite number of voices gibbering madness and blasphemies within the Warp itself.

The Hive Mind itself may well be driven mad.

worded better than I did, but I agree

 Psienesis wrote:
Right. SITW is not psychic null-space, the Hive Mind is not an Untouchable. It's "psychic static" caused by so many billions/trillions of minds in a given area that disrupts the "standard" signal from the Warp to Realspace (and vice versa)... but taking the "white noise generator" of the SITW into the Warp itself is a whole new ballgame. There, that static can just join the cacophony of a literally infinite number of voices gibbering madness and blasphemies within the Warp itself.

The Hive Mind itself may well be driven mad.

Imagine what would come out

Daemon-bugs stretching between the stars, forming their fleets into strange and suggestive shapes that incite madness and recidivism upon the worlds that fall within their shadow.

Note that there is no evidence for the Chaos gods stretching beyond the milky way, and as each daemon is a fragment of their parent Chaos God and the Chaos Gods are not infinite in power (otherwise Skarbrand would have never have even dented Khorne nor would the Emperor have ever been a threat), there cannot be an infinite number of Daemons.

Nor should there be, I find "Omnipotent Chaos" to be terribly boring, and the less important and central humanity (and by extension Chaos) is to the setting, the better and more diverse it is.

Nor is it supported when the official timeline of the Rhana Dhandra has Chaos burning out and dying after a balls out charge from the Maelstrom and Eye of Terror and leaving the Tyranids to devour the galaxy, who in turn leave the Necrons an empire of dust to rule until the end of time.

They don't need to stretch beyond the galaxy, the Warp supersedes the constraints of physical space. It can be infinite and yet fit within a Dixie cup.

What the Eldar say is the End of Time does not make it the true End of Time. The Eldar, for all their psychic gifts, are amazingly clueless when it comes to actually reading the future accurately. Rather like Jedi and their prophecies in that.

 Kain wrote:
Note that there is no evidence for the Chaos gods stretching beyond the milky way, and as each daemon is a fragment of their parent Chaos God and the Chaos Gods are not infinite in power (otherwise Skarbrand would have never have even dented Khorne nor would the Emperor have ever been a threat), there cannot be an infinite number of Daemons.

Nor should there be, I find "Omnipotent Chaos" to be terribly boring, and the less important and central humanity (and by extension Chaos) is to the setting, the better and more diverse it is.

Nor is it supported when the official timeline of the Rhana Dhandra has Chaos burning out and dying after a balls out charge from the Maelstrom and Eye of Terror and leaving the Tyranids to devour the galaxy, who in turn leave the Necrons an empire of dust to rule until the end of time.

Implying you don't want to see chaotic gribblies fusing two of the greatest horrors of 40k to then go on to consume foes both soul and flesh

I think it's more of charging into an alternate reality defying dimension is a very bad idea in general.

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Note that there is no evidence for the Chaos gods stretching beyond the milky way, and as each daemon is a fragment of their parent Chaos God and the Chaos Gods are not infinite in power (otherwise Skarbrand would have never have even dented Khorne nor would the Emperor have ever been a threat), there cannot be an infinite number of Daemons.

Nor should there be, I find "Omnipotent Chaos" to be terribly boring, and the less important and central humanity (and by extension Chaos) is to the setting, the better and more diverse it is.

Nor is it supported when the official timeline of the Rhana Dhandra has Chaos burning out and dying after a balls out charge from the Maelstrom and Eye of Terror and leaving the Tyranids to devour the galaxy, who in turn leave the Necrons an empire of dust to rule until the end of time.

Implying you don't want to see chaotic gribblies fusing two of the greatest horrors of 40k to then go on to consume foes both soul and flesh

I think it's more of charging into an alternate reality defying dimension is a very bad idea in general.

Warhammer 50k called. It wants it's plot twist back. Though it was Orks and Tyranids so you had hive ships reproducing by sporing at Ork rates.

And also apparently by 60k there's something far worse than Chaos that corrupts Erebus into it's service. Began with an N or something, not the Necrons. Null...Nerx...Nihilism...I'll remember it someday.

 Psienesis wrote:
They don't need to stretch beyond the galaxy, the Warp supersedes the constraints of physical space. It can be infinite and yet fit within a Dixie cup.

What the Eldar say is the End of Time does not make it the true End of Time. The Eldar, for all their psychic gifts, are amazingly clueless when it comes to actually reading the future accurately. Rather like Jedi and their prophecies in that.

This. The Eldar, while exceptionally good at foretelling which side your toast will fall if you drop it, are fairly terrible at predicting events in the far future that involve Chaos. Plus there's the additional problem of Chaos having a Schrodinger existence and ignoring time completely. Not to mention time travel.