Could the IOM launch an offensive operation into the Eye of Terror?

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**StarTrotter**

Kain wrote:
StarTrotter wrote:
Kain wrote:
Note that there is no evidence for the Chaos gods stretching beyond the milky way, and as each daemon is a fragment of their parent Chaos God and the Chaos Gods are not infinite in power (otherwise Skarbrand would have never have even dented Khorne nor would the Emperor have ever been a threat), there cannot be an infinite number of Daemons.

Nor should there be, I find "Omnipotent Chaos" to be terribly boring, and the less important and central humanity (and by extension Chaos) is to the setting, the better and more diverse it is.

Nor is it supported when the official timeline of the Rhana Dhandra has Chaos burning out and dying after a balls out charge from the Maelstrom and Eye of Terror and leaving the Tyranids to devour the galaxy, who in turn leave the Necrons an empire of dust to rule until the end of time.

Implying you don't want to see chaotic gribblies fusing two of the greatest horrors of 40k to then go on to consume foes both soul and flesh

I think it's more of charging into an alternate reality defying dimension is a very bad idea in general.

Warhammer 50k called. It wants it's plot twist back. Though it was Orks and Tyranids so you had hive ships reproducing by sporing at Ork rates.

And also apparently by 60k there's something far worse than Chaos that corrupts Erebus into it's service. Began with an N or something, not the Necrons. Null...Nerx...Nihilism...I'll remember it someday.

Nonsense. Chaos Orkified Tyranids that fight a coalition of Necrons, Tau, IG, DE, and Eldar however the faction barely stands together frequently breaking apart due to a spreading of the flaying disease throughotu necrons, greatly weakening them, Tau and IG that fight eachother, and the trolling nature of DE and Eldar.

**Kain**

Psienesis wrote:
They don't need to stretch beyond the galaxy, the Warp supersedes the constraints of physical space. It can be infinite and yet fit within a Dixie cup.

What the Eldar say is the End of Time does not make it the true End of Time. The Eldar, for all their psychic gifts, are amazingly clueless when it comes to actually reading the future accurately. Rather like Jedi and their prophecies in that.

And?

The warp is calm beyond the galaxy. Too calm to travel through.

Other galaxies likely have entirely different gods or perhaps no gods at all.

It's exceedingly unlikely that the Chaos Gods we know have influence beyond the milky way, otherwise the milky way wouldn't have had any noticeable influence or effect on the nature of Chaos due to it being a drop in the bucket as far as the universe goes.

The four are great and powerful, but ultimately have their own very real limits.

And the prophecy is ultimately fitting with the nature of all three factions.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

StarTrotter wrote:
Kain wrote:
StarTrotter wrote:
Kain wrote:
Note that there is no evidence for the Chaos gods stretching beyond the milky way, and as each daemon is a fragment of their parent Chaos God and the Chaos Gods are not infinite in power (otherwise Skarbrand would have never have even dented Khorne nor would the Emperor have ever been a threat), there cannot be an infinite number of Daemons.

Nor should there be, I find "Omnipotent Chaos" to be terribly boring, and the less important and central humanity (and by extension Chaos) is to the setting, the better and more diverse it is.

Nor is it supported when the official timeline of the Rhana Dhandra has Chaos burning out and dying after a balls out charge from the Maelstrom and Eye of Terror and leaving the Tyranids to devour the galaxy, who in turn leave the Necrons an empire of dust to rule until the end of time.

Implying you don't want to see chaotic gribblies fusing two of the greatest horrors of 40k to then go on to consume foes both soul and flesh

I think it's more of charging into an alternate reality defying dimension is a very bad idea in general.

Warhammer 50k called. It wants it's plot twist back. Though it was Orks and Tyranids so you had hive ships reproducing by sporing at Ork rates.

And also apparently by 60k there's something far worse than Chaos that corrupts Erebus into it's service. Began with an N or something, not the Necrons. Null...Nerx...Nihilism...I'll remember it someday.

Nonsense. Chaos Orkified Tyranids that fight a coalition of Necrons, Tau, IG, DE, and Eldar however the faction barely stands together frequently breaking apart due to a spreading of the flaying disease throughotu necrons, greatly weakening them, Tau and IG that fight eachother, and the trolling nature of DE and Eldar.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_50k

Even darker than 40k.

Oh so very much darker.

**Psienesis**

And and?

What goes on in other galaxies doesn't at all matter here. This is about the Hive Fleet entering the Eye of Terror. Within the confines of the Warp (confines that do not actually exist) there is an infinite number of creatures called daemons. Malignant sentiences birthed from the raw stuff of Chaos.

That the influence of the Warp ends at the edge of the Milky Way does not, in any way, define how large the Warp is while inside it (it's infinite, if it wants to be). Euclidean geometry and Einsteinian Principles of Relativity don't exist in the Warp. The basic concept of linear time does not exist in the Warp. You could remain in the Warp for a billion years, traveling at the speed of light, and never move so much as a micron. You could walk through a doorway and end up on the far side of the galaxy in the blink of an eye. You could arrive at your destination before you left your point of origin.

**Kain**

Psienesis wrote:
And and?

What goes on in other galaxies doesn't at all matter here. This is about the Hive Fleet entering the Eye of Terror. Within the confines of the Warp (confines that do not actually exist) there is an infinite number of creatures called daemons. Malignant sentiences birthed from the raw stuff of Chaos.

That the influence of the Warp ends at the edge of the Milky Way does not, in any way, define how large the Warp is while inside it (it's infinite, if it wants to be). Euclidean geometry and Einsteinian Principles of Relativity don't exist in the Warp. The basic concept of linear time does not exist in the Warp. You could remain in the Warp for a billion years, traveling at the speed of light, and never move so much as a micron. You could walk through a doorway and end up on the far side of the galaxy in the blink of an eye. You could arrive at your destination before you left your point of origin.

Uncountable to humans yes. Infinite? No, the gods do not have infinite power to make them.

The shadow of the full thousand devoured galaxies worth of Tyranids would more than likely snuff out the eye of terror completely and close off the gods from the materium.

These same Gods would have been permanently injured by the Emperor had they not vacated Horus, and Khorne was caused actual (if very minor) damage by Skarbrand, who is weaker than An'ggrath who in turn got his ass kicked by Lorgar.

They're not half as powerful as their worshippers like to believe. Powerful yes, but they aren't even remotely close to omnipotent.

If anything, the Hive Mind is more powerful than the Chaos Gods, being the voice of a thousand galaxies rather than the product of only the sapient portions of one.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition, a substantial tendril of Hive Fleet kraken spent years in the warp itself after being flung there by the Eldar and wasn't even slightly mutated.

**Psienesis**

Uncountable to humans yes. Infinite? No, the gods do not have infinite power to make them.

There were Daemons before there were Chaos Gods to create them. Chaos Undivided is its own sentience form, and is not beholden to the powers of the super-daemons that are the Great Four.

The shadow of the full thousand devoured galaxies worth of Tyranids would more than likely snuff out the eye of terror completely and close off the gods from the materium.

That's not at all how the SITW works.

If anything, the Hive Mind is more powerful than the Chaos Gods, being the voice of a thousand galaxies rather than the product of only the sapient portions of one.

Even if the Tyranids had destroyed 1000 galaxies, that does not make the entire Hive Fleet the sum total of those 1000 galaxies. There are a whole lotta dead-and-unrecovered Tyranids in the Milky Way alone. We have no idea what kind of destruction was visited on them in those other galaxies. That the Tyranid eventually won is not contested... but those may have been very Pyrrhic victories.

**Kain**

Psienesis wrote:
Uncountable to humans yes. Infinite? No, the gods do not have infinite power to make them.

There were Daemons before there were Chaos Gods to create them. Chaos Undivided is its own sentience form, and is not beholden to the powers of the super-daemons that are the Great Four.

The shadow of the full thousand devoured galaxies worth of Tyranids would more than likely snuff out the eye of terror completely and close off the gods from the materium.

That's not at all how the SITW works.

If anything, the Hive Mind is more powerful than the Chaos Gods, being the voice of a thousand galaxies rather than the product of only the sapient portions of one.

Even if the Tyranids had destroyed 1000 galaxies, that does not make the entire Hive Fleet the sum total of those 1000 galaxies. There are a whole lotta dead-and-unrecovered Tyranids in the Milky Way alone. We have no idea what kind of destruction was visited on them in those other galaxies. That the Tyranid eventually won is not contested... but those may have been very Pyrrhic victories.

And can you name how many creatures of Chaos undivided have actually done anything of note?

It would at the very least weaken any and all drawings upon the warp as it's snuffed out by an all surpassing all malevolent hunger.

Two can play at the lowball game you know?

Things like the 600-2000km long Norn-ships seen in the Valedor book would have needed the biomass of millions of worlds to create (or a void whale sized creature), and there is apparently at least one for every Hive Fleet tendril of note.

The tendril fought over at Valedor was but a one of many hundreds of such Tendrils seen in Hive Fleet Kraken which is itself dwarfed by Hive Fleet Leviathan which is itself just the tip of the iceberg.

Going by those alone, they do indeed have far more material to work with than everyone in the galaxy combined.

**morganfreeman**

jhe90 wrote:
thenoobbomb wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
If you used mostly servitors, machinery and such?

A brain dead robot cannot be turned by chaos gods, yes tech preist can but a strongly cybernetic and robotic force may stand better odds. Use a modified grey knights class cruiser with full warding, n such.

Machine Spirits and all that can be turned, too, and otherwise they can easily be disabled by scrapcode.

OK so no way round it. Basically chaos could camp in the eye and basicly be totally safe from impirial attacks. Only race I think may stand a chance is maybe necrons, they are unique in being living metal, don't,t rely on warp drives, n have as I understand no prescense chaos can use against.

Tuska and his Waaagh butchered quite a few chaos worlds before finally getting to Ork heaven.

**Wyzilla**

Psienesis wrote:
Uncountable to humans yes. Infinite? No, the gods do not have infinite power to make them.

There were Daemons before there were Chaos Gods to create them. Chaos Undivided is its own sentience form, and is not beholden to the powers of the super-daemons that are the Great Four.

The shadow of the full thousand devoured galaxies worth of Tyranids would more than likely snuff out the eye of terror completely and close off the gods from the materium.

That's not at all how the SITW works.

If anything, the Hive Mind is more powerful than the Chaos Gods, being the voice of a thousand galaxies rather than the product of only the sapient portions of one.

Even if the Tyranids had destroyed 1000 galaxies, that does not make the entire Hive Fleet the sum total of those 1000 galaxies. There are a whole lotta dead-and-unrecovered Tyranids in the Milky Way alone. We have no idea what kind of destruction was visited on them in those other galaxies. That the Tyranid eventually won is not contested... but those may have been very Pyrrhic victories.

Considering the nature of the tyranids actually, every victory is either phyrric or damn near close to it. The Tyranids need to generate energy, which war sucks up and neutralizes the net gain of energy Tyranids can reap. If anything, they've been losing every single battle except that against the Orks to perpetually feed them. They're also playing a even more dangerous game given the immense distances between galaxies, the void, which will drain the Tyranids of energy along the way and leave them starving and cannibalistic.

And to back you up, I'm pretty sure there's a quote somewhere of there being infinite daemons (counting Great Daemons, Lesser Daemons, and the limitless numbers of the creatures that inhabit the warp and aren't affiliated with any of the gods.)

**Exergy**

Kain wrote:

Uncountable to humans yes. Infinite? No, the gods do not have infinite power to make them.

The shadow of the full thousand devoured galaxies worth of Tyranids would more than likely snuff out the eye of terror completely and close off the gods from the materium.

These same Gods would have been permanently injured by the Emperor had they not vacated Horus, and Khorne was caused actual (if very minor) damage by Skarbrand, who is weaker than An'ggrath who in turn got his ass kicked by Lorgar.

They're not half as powerful as their worshippers like to believe. Powerful yes, but they aren't even remotely close to omnipotent.

Yes infinate. There are an endless, simply endless supply of daemons on the other side. The number of daemons or power on the other side that is limiting but the strength of chaos in the material realm that limits them. Defeating daemons, killing horus, etc weakens the warp entities in real space and limits the ability to summon more into this galaxy.

Kain wrote:

If anything, the Hive Mind is more powerful than the Chaos Gods, being the voice of a thousand galaxies rather than the product of only the sapient portions of one.

The hive mind is a connection of a bunch of bugs, not a immaterial force that exists purely in the warp.

**TiamatRoar**

Here's a dark eldar raid into the eye of terror:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Raid_on_Adraith

I hear the Eldar regularly raid maiden worlds in there too in an attempt to get soulstones.

...I wouldn't go in too deep or stick around for long though or else you'll get your butt kicked (like that Dark Eldar raid eventually did)

It is noticeable that the Abyssal Crusade DID purge many worlds in the eye. The cost of all those space marine chapters (and corresponding increase in Chaos warbands) wasn't worth it, though.

**Ashiraya**

Tyranids are indeed the single greatest faction of finite numbers, blowing all other factions combined out of the water.

Chaos, however, happens to be infinite.

Tyranids don't seem to feed Chaos with their primal, relentless, hunger-focused mass consciousness, though, so if the Tyranids nom everyone else Chaos would lose in the end.

They are definitely the two largest players for galaxy dominance, eclipsing even the third place holder, the Necrons.

**Wyzilla**

Aha. Found what I've been looking for a while, big gigantic pile of quotes and statements of Chaos being pretty much untouchable in W40K beyond high tier entities like the GEOM, and even he's just holding back the apocalypse from spilling forth. Invading the Eye of Terror is suicide if you attract attention, not to mention pointless. Losses will be recovered instantly or may have never happened in the first place. You might never even reach your destination, be spat out on the other side of the Milky Way, shunted into another universe, obliterated with a thought, erased, etc. And no damage will likely even be much of a threat or was even a threat in the first place. Time doesn't even exist, the existence of the physical is simply a whim and not an absolute rule. Invading a dimension where physical laws are merely an opinion, not fact, is poor tactical move that will swiftly lead to your destruction.

The warp is the multi/omniverse(or is connected to them)
"The forms the live-things called Chaos, in their limited little ways of perceiving the omni-verse, swarmed and thrived in this infinite ocean of mind and emotion. The daemon moved with Stele. Waiting, waiting and watching for the moment when the thrashing and chattering of the quarry was at its peak. Only then would it strike, lapping up the absolute perfection of its fear, sinking in rending teeth, tearing it to soul- shreds."
Pg.106 Deus Sanguinius
“A miss indicates that the missile has left Warpspace at the wrong point – and this could be anywhere in any of the million universes.”
pg.37 Adeptus Titanicus
Thoughts can destroy or create thousands of universes in the warp
"Here in the Great Ocean, he could be whatever he wanted to be; nothing was forbidden and anything was possible.
Worlds flashed past him as he hurtled through the swelling tides of colour, light and dimensions without name. The roiling chaos of the aether was a playground for titanic forces, where entire universes could be created and destroyed with a random thought. How many trillions of potential lives were birthed and snuffed out just by thinking such things?"
Pg.712 A Thousand Sons

Chaos is older than time
All around him, he could hear the sounds of the future, of warfare and death. The thought that he shared the guilt of the destruction of the Emperor’s dream was the greatest shame and sorrow he had ever known.
An end to it all would be a blessed relief.
‘Oblivion,’ he whispered as he closed his eyes. ‘Do it. End me.’
The barriers in Fulgrim’s mind dropped and he felt the elation of a creature older than time as it poured into the void in his soul. No sooner had its touch claimed his flesh for its own than he knew he had made the worst mistake of his life.
Fulgrim screamed as he fought to keep it out, but it was already too late.
His consciousness was crushed into the dark, unused corners of his mind, forever to be a mute witness to the havoc wrought by his body’s new master.
One moment Fulgrim was a primarch, one of the Emperor’s Children, the next he was a thing of Chaos."
Pg.757 Fulgrim
"A terrible, ageless scream of frustration filled the chamber, echoing throughout all the realms of existence simultaneously as a creature older than time was thwarted in its ambitions."
Pg.619 Descent of Angels
"All I can tell you is that the warp is beyond the comprehension of you or I, and things exist in its fathomless depths that are older than time as we know it.’"
Pg.359 Battle For the Abyss

Schrodinger's Slaanesh/Chaos
That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the material universe. In the Warp, things are different, for the Immaterium is not bound by linear time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cause then effect. As his rival gods reckon it, Slannesh has always existed in the Warp, and yet has never existed at all
-Codex: Chaos Daemons 6th Edition pg. 16
That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the real universe; in the Warp, things are different. The Realm of Chaos has no true time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cuase then effect. In essence, Slaanesh has always exsted in the Warp, and yet had never existed.
-Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition, pg.7
The sheer mind-boggling impossibiliry of the Warp defies
explanation, and those who attempt to delve further into
understanding its ways inevitably slip into madness. Of the
little that is known is that Warp space does not conform to the
laws of physics as we know them.
-Warhamer 40k 6th Edition Rulebook, pg. 144
It is a hurning ocean of chaos, raw emotion and madness given form, where the laws of physics, time and nature are meaningless concepts and nothing is as it seems.
-Warhammer 40k 4th Edition Rulebook pg. 122
In warp space there is no time, no distances, only a constantly flowing stream of immaterium.
-Battle Fleet Gothic Rulebook, pg. 85
It is a roiling, howling maelstorm of force and energy, utterly unpredictable and not subject to the rational laws and linear flow of time in the way that physical reality is.
-Horus Heresy Book 1: Betrayal, pg. 16
Beyond the boundaries of physical space, unrestricted by time or casuality, there is a dimension utterly incomprehensible to mortal minds.
-Codex: Chaos Daemons 6th Edition pg. 6
Beyond the boundaries of physical space, unrestricted by time or casuality, there is a dimension utterly incomprehensible to mortal minds.
-Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition pg. 4
Timeless and ever-shifting, this psychic visionscape is known as the Realm of Chaos
-Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition pg. 6
The Realm of Chaos, also known as the Warp, the Immaterium or Warpspace, is a dimension parallel to our own, a universe devoid of matter and life, without laws of time and space.

--Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition pg. 6
The Empy holding reality against Chaos consuming the universe throughout space time.
"His immense psychic powers envelop and protect Mankind across the entire galaxy. His consciousness wanders through Warp space, warring against the Daemons that inhabit it, keeping closed the doors between this world and the next.

If the Emperor fails then the Daemons of Chaos will flood into the galaxy. Every living human will become a gateway for the destruction of Mankind and the stuff of Warp space will submerge the galaxy. There will be no physical matter. No space. No time. Only Chaos."
-Warhammer 40k 5th Edition rulebook, pg.101
Physically fettered, chained atop mountainous banks of
machinery, the Emperor's mind stretches out through space
and time - a light in a vast gulf of blackness.
-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition Rulebook, pg.134
"Today, as for every day since that battle, the Emperor lives only by the immeasurable force of his supreme will. The stasis fields and psi-fusion reactors of the machine known as the Golden Throne preserve his broken and decayed body; his great mind endures inside a rotting carcass, kept alive by the mysteries of ancient technology. His immense psychic Powers reach out from the Golden Throne, enveloping and protecting Mankind across the enemy-strewn galaxy, a beacon of light in the malevolent darkness.

If the Emperor fails, then none will be able to stop the influx of the dark powers; ravenous and all-consurning Daemons will flood into the galaxy. Every living human will become a gateway for the destruction of Mankind. Reality as it is known will be subsumed by the stuff of Warp space - a realm of nightmares and cruel insanity where all life will end. There will be no physical matter. No space. No time. Only Chaos."
-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition rulebook, pg.137
"Daemons are destruction and anarchy incarnate and they lust after the flesh, blood and very souls of living creatures. They want only to destroy, to drag any living essence they can capture back to their shadowy realm, to obliterate the material universe and engulf it within Warp space."
-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition rulebook, pg. 144
"They are never sated. The abominations from the Warp will not rest untii they have consumed not just Mankind, but the universe as well. All will be ruin; all will be Chaos."
-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition rulebook, pg. 234

**Metaljunx**

Many races tried before even orks .

**EmpNortonII**

Vintersorg wrote:
People please, Chaos feeds an ALL emotions, not just the negative (for whom?) ones.
As long there is emotional activity in the Universe, there will be Chaos gods.

Who are the Chaos Gods of love, joy, happiness, and contentment?

Is there a Chaos God of eating bacon?

**Wyzilla**

Vintersorg wrote:
People please, Chaos feeds an ALL emotions, not just the negative (for whom?) ones.
As long there is emotional activity in the Universe, there will be Chaos gods.

Not just that. It feeds on other universes as well. Plus Chaos, and the Warp itself, ignores time and causality itself. Chaos is unlikely to ever be going anywhere from the Warp.

**Melissia**

Orks succeeded of course, but that's because Orks always succeed.

**EmpNortonII**

Wyzilla wrote:
Vintersorg wrote:
People please, Chaos feeds an ALL emotions, not just the negative (for whom?) ones.
As long there is emotional activity in the Universe, there will be Chaos gods.

Not just that. It feeds on other universes as well. Plus Chaos, and the Warp itself, ignores time and causality itself. Chaos is unlikely to ever be going anywhere from the Warp.

Yes, Chaos is everywhere. There's just one problem with using that fact to extrapolate that Chaos is unending.

You see, the Tyranids have devoured galaxies where Chaos did jack to stop them. They're the biggest kid on the 40k block.

**StarTrotter**

EmpNortonII wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Vintersorg wrote:
People please, Chaos feeds an ALL emotions, not just the negative (for whom?) ones.
As long there is emotional activity in the Universe, there will be Chaos gods.

Not just that. It feeds on other universes as well. Plus Chaos, and the Warp itself, ignores time and causality itself. Chaos is unlikely to ever be going anywhere from the Warp.

Yes, Chaos is everywhere. There's just one problem with using that fact to extrapolate that Chaos is unending.

You see, the Tyranids have devoured galaxies where Chaos did jack to stop them. They're the biggest kid on the 40k block.

Denying the Necron's victory, forgetting most places the warp is probably rather calm. Please, Necrons are god mode

**Wyzilla**

EmpNortonII wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Vintersorg wrote:
People please, Chaos feeds an ALL emotions, not just the negative (for whom?) ones.
As long there is emotional activity in the Universe, there will be Chaos gods.

Not just that. It feeds on other universes as well. Plus Chaos, and the Warp itself, ignores time and causality itself. Chaos is unlikely to ever be going anywhere from the Warp.

Yes, Chaos is everywhere. There's just one problem with using that fact to extrapolate that Chaos is unending.

You see, the Tyranids have devoured galaxies where Chaos did jack to stop them. They're the biggest kid on the 40k block.

And there is no reason to even think that twelve galaxies sacked by the Tyranids held any civilizations even remotely as interesting or as powerful as those contained in the Milky Way. Plus Chaos seems to care little for the Tyranids and only is interested in the main sources of its entertainment, Humanity and Eldar. Chaos is also multiuniversal and thus has no need to even truly care about the Tyranids considering they're not very emotional, nor are they much of a threat. The only thing really tying them to the Milky Way is the GEOM, who, if he operates like the Chaos Gods, who have always existed and came before everything while never existing, the GEOM has always been fighting Chaos and holding them back, just as Chaos has always been fighting him. If Chaos ever truly wanted to "win", it would simply rip holes into the materium across the Galaxy like during the death of the empire(s) DAOT humanity ruled as their FTL was rendered useless by warpstorms and rifts.

To understand the nature of Chaos, I'd suggest reading into the works of H.P. Lovecraft for a damned good description of the nature of incomprehensible eldritch abominations. The only real guess we have to the desire of the Chaos Gods is entertainment, a source of laughter while playing the Great Game. It's the only explanation for the behavior of the Chaos Gods in such instances as abandoning their greatest champions upon the moment of victory, feeding their own false information, and champions such as Abaddon failing to reap true victories. All Chaos wants is the status quo of war to continue.

**Ashiraya**

Melissia wrote:
Orks succeeded of course, but that's because Orks always succeed.

Depends on who you ask.

Ask any Ork and they will agree with you.

An Imperial onlooker would insist that they lost- they were pwned pretty badly by the Blood Prince.

**BlaxicanX**

Orks don't enjoy dying, they merely accept it as an inevitability.

So I wouldn't consider Tuska's plight to be a victory for the orks, to be honest.

**Ashiraya**

BlaxicanX wrote:
Orks don't enjoy dying, they merely accept it as an inevitability.

So I wouldn't consider Tuska's plight to be a victory for the orks, to be honest.

Well he did find eternal war...

**Melissia**

In his view it's a victory.

**EmpNortonII**

Wyzilla wrote:
EmpNortonII wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Vintersorg wrote:
People please, Chaos feeds an ALL emotions, not just the negative (for whom?) ones.
As long there is emotional activity in the Universe, there will be Chaos gods.

Not just that. It feeds on other universes as well. Plus Chaos, and the Warp itself, ignores time and causality itself. Chaos is unlikely to ever be going anywhere from the Warp.

Yes, Chaos is everywhere. There's just one problem with using that fact to extrapolate that Chaos is unending.

You see, the Tyranids have devoured galaxies where Chaos did jack to stop them. They're the biggest kid on the 40k block.

And there is no reason to even think that twelve galaxies sacked by the Tyranids held any civilizations even remotely as interesting or as powerful as those contained in the Milky Way. Plus Chaos seems to care little for the Tyranids and only is interested in the main sources of its entertainment, Humanity and Eldar. Chaos is also multiuniversal and thus has no need to even truly care about the Tyranids considering they're not very emotional, nor are they much of a threat. The only thing really tying them to the Milky Way is the GEOM, who, if he operates like the Chaos Gods, who have always existed and came before everything while never existing, the GEOM has always been fighting Chaos and holding them back, just as Chaos has always been fighting him. If Chaos ever truly wanted to "win", it would simply rip holes into the materium across the Galaxy like during the death of the empire(s) DAOT humanity ruled as their FTL was rendered useless by warpstorms and rifts.

To understand the nature of Chaos, I'd suggest reading into the works of H.P. Lovecraft for a damned good description of the nature of incomprehensible eldritch abominations. The only real guess we have to the desire of the Chaos Gods is entertainment, a source of laughter while playing the Great Game. It's the only explanation for the behavior of the Chaos Gods in such instances as abandoning their greatest champions upon the moment of victory, feeding their own false information, and champions such as Abaddon failing to reap true victories. All Chaos wants is the status quo of war to continue.

The galaxies, if they possessed sentient life at all, held Chaos... and likely, rifts to the Immaterium like the EoT. While Chaos may care little for the Tyranids, the reverse does not hold true. The Tyranids destroy Chaos the same as they destroy everything else.

... and mighty C'thulhu is sleeping. He's not forced to fail because victory means non-existence. He will rise and consume humanity- something Chaos simply cannot do.

**Exergy**

Melissia wrote:
Orks succeeded of course, but that's because Orks always succeed.

Goal posts move closer for orks sometimes

**Formosa**

Surprised that no one gas mentioned that chaos is linked to every reality and dimension through the warp, we also know that the warp extends past the milky way as imperial ships have tried to go past the rim but the light of the astronomnicon doesn't extend that far, no warp no light so it must extend past the milky way

**StarTrotter**

EmpNortonII wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
EmpNortonII wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Vintersorg wrote:
People please, Chaos feeds an ALL emotions, not just the negative (for whom?) ones.
As long there is emotional activity in the Universe, there will be Chaos gods.

Not just that. It feeds on other universes as well. Plus Chaos, and the Warp itself, ignores time and causality itself. Chaos is unlikely to ever be going anywhere from the Warp.

Yes, Chaos is everywhere. There's just one problem with using that fact to extrapolate that Chaos is unending.

You see, the Tyranids have devoured galaxies where Chaos did jack to stop them. They're the biggest kid on the 40k block.

And there is no reason to even think that twelve galaxies sacked by the Tyranids held any civilizations even remotely as interesting or as powerful as those contained in the Milky Way. Plus Chaos seems to care little for the Tyranids and only is interested in the main sources of its entertainment, Humanity and Eldar. Chaos is also multiuniversal and thus has no need to even truly care about the Tyranids considering they're not very emotional, nor are they much of a threat. The only thing really tying them to the Milky Way is the GEOM, who, if he operates like the Chaos Gods, who have always existed and came before everything while never existing, the GEOM has always been fighting Chaos and holding them back, just as Chaos has always been fighting him. If Chaos ever truly wanted to "win", it would simply rip holes into the materium across the Galaxy like during the death of the empire(s) DAOT humanity ruled as their FTL was rendered useless by warpstorms and rifts.

To understand the nature of Chaos, I'd suggest reading into the works of H.P. Lovecraft for a damned good description of the nature of incomprehensible eldritch abominations. The only real guess we have to the desire of the Chaos Gods is entertainment, a source of laughter while playing the Great Game. It's the only explanation for the behavior of the Chaos Gods in such instances as abandoning their greatest champions upon the moment of victory, feeding their own false information, and champions such as Abaddon failing to reap true victories. All Chaos wants is the status quo of war to continue.

The galaxies, if they possessed sentient life at all, held Chaos... and likely, rifts to the Immaterium like the EoT. While Chaos may care little for the Tyranids, the reverse does not hold true. The Tyranids destroy Chaos the same as they destroy everything else.

... and mighty C'thulhu is sleeping. He's not forced to fail because victory means non-existence. He will rise and consume humanity- something Chaos simply cannot do.

.... huh? We have no clue about the alternate galaxies that Nids have consumed. Along with that, how does victory mean chaos dies? They want to plunge reality into the warp or, at least, the Milky Way into the warp not slaughter all of humanity (that was Nids and Old Crons thing)

**Wyzilla**

EmpNortonII wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
EmpNortonII wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Vintersorg wrote:
People please, Chaos feeds an ALL emotions, not just the negative (for whom?) ones.
As long there is emotional activity in the Universe, there will be Chaos gods.

Not just that. It feeds on other universes as well. Plus Chaos, and the Warp itself, ignores time and causality itself. Chaos is unlikely to ever be going anywhere from the Warp.

Yes, Chaos is everywhere. There's just one problem with using that fact to extrapolate that Chaos is unending.

You see, the Tyranids have devoured galaxies where Chaos did jack to stop them. They're the biggest kid on the 40k block.

And there is no reason to even think that twelve galaxies sacked by the Tyranids held any civilizations even remotely as interesting or as powerful as those contained in the Milky Way. Plus Chaos seems to care little for the Tyranids and only is interested in the main sources of its entertainment, Humanity and Eldar. Chaos is also multiuniversal and thus has no need to even truly care about the Tyranids considering they're not very emotional, nor are they much of a threat. The only thing really tying them to the Milky Way is the GEOM, who, if he operates like the Chaos Gods, who have always existed and came before everything while never existing, the GEOM has always been fighting Chaos and holding them back, just as Chaos has always been fighting him. If Chaos ever truly wanted to "win", it would simply rip holes into the materium across the Galaxy like during the death of the empire(s) DAOT humanity ruled as their FTL was rendered useless by warpstorms and rifts.

To understand the nature of Chaos, I'd suggest reading into the works of H.P. Lovecraft for a damned good description of the nature of incomprehensible eldritch abominations. The only real guess we have to the desire of the Chaos Gods is entertainment, a source of laughter while playing the Great Game. It's the only explanation for the behavior of the Chaos Gods in such instances as abandoning their greatest champions upon the moment of victory, feeding their own false information, and champions such as Abaddon failing to reap true victories. All Chaos wants is the status quo of war to continue.

The galaxies, if they possessed sentient life at all, held Chaos... and likely, rifts to the Immaterium like the EoT. While Chaos may care little for the Tyranids, the reverse does not hold true. The Tyranids destroy Chaos the same as they destroy everything else.

... and mighty C'thulhu is sleeping. He's not forced to fail because victory means non-existence. He will rise and consume humanity- something Chaos simply cannot do.

Cthulhu's nothing in the Cthulhu Mythos. He's simply the high priest and descendent of Azathoth. The entities that truly matter are the Other Gods- Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth, Nyarlathotep, etc. Cthulhu's merely a high priest of the Other Gods and not a god itself, just an abominaion spawn of Azathoth, similar to Hercules and other Demigods.

And sentient life does not immediately cause Chaos to come knocking, it takes emotional sentient life connected to the warp such as Eldar or Humans to draw Chaos' attention. Given that it is only now that Tyranids have developed psyker units such as Zooanthropes by consuming life in the Milky Way, it's fairly easy to conclude that there is thus no life similar to Eldar or Humans anywhere else in the universe, just organisms such as Orks. Bu no, the Tyranids are not capable of even touching Chaos given the statements of Chaos hilariously outstrip the power of the Tyranids. Chaos is multiuniversal, omnipotent within the warp, and capable of ripping its way into the Materium if-so-wished given that they previously tore their way into the Materium during the decay of the Eldar Empire, while also the Emperor was alive and well.

Now the only thing providing any true fight against Chaos is the God Emperor, although things also get complicated given the schrodinger nature of the warp. The Chaos Gods have always existed for eternity despite having a set birthdate in the Materium of the 40K universe, but yet have retconned themselves to have always existed. If the GEOM is similar at all to warp entities like the Chaos Gods, then one can assume that the GEOM also exhibits the Schrodinger's god traits. Meaning the God Emperor has always been fighting Chaos.

**TheRedWingArmada**

I'll just mention real quick that no less than 30 Space Marine chapters tried that once, and about half of them ended up joining Chaos. Another third of them outright died and what was left came back and killed Saint Basillius for playing pranks on them.

Space Marines don't have a good sense of humour about things like the Warp.

**Melissia**

Exergy wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Orks succeeded of course, but that's because Orks always succeed.

Goal posts move closer for orks sometimes

Not really. Orks have very clear goalposts, as stated in their codices-- they like to fight. As long as they have war, they win, since war is all they want.