Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Auswin wrote:
I don't really want to get into "who needs it more," because I play DE and BA -- but I will say that while the Angels need some of their characters tweaked there are whole swathes of the Dark Eldar dex that are completely defunct and/or lacking any viability right now. It's not just a case of "Death Company are overpriced" but "This makes no sense."

Here's where we hit a "What I hope" vs. "What I expect"

I HOPE:
- The Voidraven becomes a super-heavy flier, which seems possible given its price tag. It seems more suitable than a giant talos MC or an equivalent. Maybe beef up the number of void lances, give it stealth and a hefty point cost.
- I'd like to see GW continue the idea of each army's "big bad" being pushed to the Lord of War category. It would be amazing to see Vect get a model similar to the Tesseract Vault where he can be on the dais or not, depending on player choice.
- Some sort of presence in the psychic phase, please. It would be nice for Haemonculi to get an alchemical power table, or something like that. Not powers from the warp, per se -- but something where they can make the army have a point in a whole phase of the game.
- New Drazhar model please. One where he couldn't look like a giant Praying Mantis with a condom on his head. Unlock incubi as troops, and change up his special rules to make them more viable (looking at you, Darting Strike.)

What I EXPECT:
- Lady Malys goes
- Duke Sliscus goes (and I cry)
- The Decapitator goes, heck Mandrakes might go all together.
- Vect gets a model, Sathonyx gets a model, Drazhar gets a new model.
- Some sort of Incubi HQ option that isn't Drazhar, filling a role similar to an Archon/Succubus
- Scourges get pointed better.
- Trueborn get a kit.
- Haywire cannon option for ravagers
- Grotesques get better options and a new kit to become viable. Perhaps a new HQ option as a grotesque to make a flesh hulk army with talos' (datalate perhaps).

I expect Mandrakes to get a buff. They're clearly useless right now, and I'd be surprised if they didn't get at least some kind of alteration.

When it comes to special characters, there aren't any third party versions (save for the "please sue me" Sathonyx linked earlier) so I'm hopeful that two to three of our specials will get models. (No, HMBC, I don't expect the ALL to get minis, but I think two is a reasonable hope.)

If we do get minis for the characters without them, I'd expect the order of likelihood to be Sliscus, Sathonyx, Malys, and Kheradruakh. Vect may or may not get a new mini, since they DID make a mini for him at one point, which means his miniature IS protected IP, if I understand the way that all works correctly.

I dont think Sliscus is going to go, he is one of the better characters in the dex and with the new rules RE: derp strike hes even better.

I hope they make Mandrakes better, or make a Mandrake HQ that is not completely useless.

With regards to HS. Razorwings need to be dumped into Fast Attack like Crimson Hunters are for the Eldar, if indeed the Void Raven is higher armor and heavier armament then it should be in HS. That would give DE a few more options...

Agree on the Dais, Vect needs something better for the Dais as its described in the books as something way bigger than a Raider.

I think the Niche with DE is going to be anti psyker, anti high toughness and AP2 like it is now but with some improvements.

GW also need to address the pointless Blaster + Poison weapons in the same unit issue. It works for Marines who can glance vehicles to death but for DE its pointless, you end up with half a unit sitting there doing nothing.

The Codex needs revamping ASAP. It is probably the one of the remaining to be dont that is most screwed at the moment.

I'm hoping it goes like this:

Void Raven/New Flier kit

Grotesques/Wracks kit

Incubi/some new unit OR more weapon options for them.

Plastic Archon/Haemonculus/Succubus

I'll be happy just with that. Plastic Mandrakes and/or beasts would be ideal but I very much doubt we'll be getting them.

Nothing really wrong with Incubi as is. Excellent close combat unit. A fair few times mine have hacked up enemy squads before they can blink.

I love Sliscus, he's one of my favorite characters in the book and I think he has some of the better written fluff of any named character in 40k.

That said, he feels perfect to pull out of the dex and turn him into a Dataslate with a formation. Maybe allowing different units to mix on raiders (like Wyches and Kabalites) to give them a more rag-tag piratical feeling, or special buffs to skimmers.

 Auswin wrote:

What I EXPECT:
- Duke Sliscus goes (and I cry)

You and every DE player.

Go or not, his 2D6 Drug roll or whatever variant of it is in the dex is going to be a Warlord Trait. That and Fear

If past history is any indication, Mandrakes won't go. Instead, they'll get a brand new plastic kit and rules that are more or less the same with a points reduction!

So basically ogryns.

And then GW apologists will argue that with their points-reductions they're at least useful now as a distraction unit and they got a points reduction what more do you want feth you and your WAAC desire for an EZ mode auto-win button unit.

If it needs to be fixed, it won't be. If it functions perfectly fine (or at least decent) now, then it won't when the new book comes out and that unit/strategy gets neutered for no reason.

Usually how it goes, with a couple exceptions. I guess it's just as likely they could end up being the next Tau or Eldar book, but if I were at all interested in playing the game anymore and wanted a DE update my expectations would be quite low.

 Auswin wrote:
I love Sliscus, he's one of my favorite characters in the book and I think he has some of the better written fluff of any named character in 40k.

That said, he feels perfect to pull out of the dex and turn him into a Dataslate with a formation. Maybe allowing different units to mix on raiders (like Wyches and Kabalites) to give them a more rag-tag piratical feeling, or special buffs to skimmers.

I agree, given the variant nature of his army, Sliscus seems like a good choice for either a Dataslate or for a supplement. (Prophets of Flesh or some wych cult might also wind up as a supplement.)

 BlaxicanX wrote:
If past history is any indication, Mandrakes won't go. Instead, they'll get a brand new plastic kit and rules that are more or less the same with a points reduction!

So basically ogryns.

And then GW apologists will argue that with their points-reductions they're at least useful now as a distraction unit and they got a points reduction what more do you want feth you and your WAAC desire for an EZ mode auto-win button unit.

Oh, I laughed.

I could see Sliscus and to a lesser extent Yriel being put together into a "Outcasts of the Eldar" supplement giving rules for Corsair warbands...

 Kanluwen wrote:
I could see Sliscus and to a lesser extent Yriel being put together into a "Outcasts of the Eldar" supplement giving rules for Corsair warbands...

Holy hemorrhaging wallet Batman!

No, but seriously I'd buy that. I've never been adverse to supplements, provided that they benefit me. (Thus far, none of them have...)

 Auswin wrote:
I don't really want to get into "who needs it more," because I play DE and BA -- but I will say that while the Angels need some of their characters tweaked there are whole swathes of the Dark Eldar dex that are completely defunct and/or lacking any viability right now. It's not just a case of "Death Company are overpriced" but "This makes no sense."

Here's where we hit a "What I hope" vs. "What I expect"

I HOPE:
- The Voidraven becomes a super-heavy flier, which seems possible given its price tag. It seems more suitable than a giant talos MC or an equivalent. Maybe beef up the number of void lances, give it stealth and a hefty point cost.
- I'd like to see GW continue the idea of each army's "big bad" being pushed to the Lord of War category. It would be amazing to see Vect get a model similar to the Tesseract Vault where he can be on the dais or not, depending on player choice.
- Some sort of presence in the psychic phase, please. It would be nice for Haemonculi to get an alchemical power table, or something like that. Not powers from the warp, per se -- but something where they can make the army have a point in a whole phase of the game.
- New Drazhar model please. One where he couldn't look like a giant Praying Mantis with a condom on his head. Unlock incubi as troops, and change up his special rules to make them more viable (looking at you, Darting Strike.)

What I EXPECT:
- Lady Malys goes
- Duke Sliscus goes (and I cry)
- The Decapitator goes, heck Mandrakes might go all together.
- Vect gets a model, Sathonyx gets a model, Drazhar gets a new model.
- Some sort of Incubi HQ option that isn't Drazhar, filling a role similar to an Archon/Succubus
- Scourges get pointed better.
- Trueborn get a kit.
- Haywire cannon option for ravagers
- Grotesques get better options and a new kit to become viable. Perhaps a new HQ option as a grotesque to make a flesh hulk army with talos' (datalate perhaps).

1. I really hope the void raven isnt a super heavy...they do however need to change it...1st off who takes razorwings as a fighter over a bare bones void raven and then the other way around for ground targets...the void raven ends up being anti are and the razorwing hots ground targets...Now i know fluff MEANS NOTHING TO GW, but look at path of the archon and treat void ravens as such...big blasts on the void mine and carry 4 instead of missiles, give the raven some sort of souped up disintegrator instead of the lances the razorwings should have...give razorwing anit air missiles, and give it the ability to turn twice like the eldar fighters...give the razor deepstrike and assassin like the old fighters DE used to have...

2. Agree, would love to see the dias of destruction be a superheavy or a modified tantalus,

3. they need something, the lack of anything in the phase is a bad thing...either that or give them the ability that dwarves used to have, take dice away and use it to stop powers from going off around them. they train from birth to suppress their psychic abilities. they hould be able to punish psychers...

4. Drazhars model still holds up. and his helmet looks good around other incubi, the blades are meh, but he is supposed to look different, and in path of the incubi, his armor looked different than moor's

5. I dont expect to see her gone, she was just in path of the archon...I do expect sliscus will be gone...I HOPE Sythrac is added...he was very cool in archon and also in the last eldar apoch novel...I dont expect decapitator gone, he was also just in archon,

6. the mandrakes are some of the best looking models in the line...they need to improve their rules and especially decapitator...i would love if they deployed in their old 3rd edition ways...it would be very fluffy...

7. Scourges need to drop to 4 weapons per 5 (LIKE EVERY OTHER heavy in the game) and get jet packs so they can shoot and move...Bikes need to go down in price or improve their armor

8. You wont see haywire on ravagers, since they wont remake the kit and it would get in the way of the forgeworld reaper

9. BRING BACK MFING horrorfex grenades...

10. I would also love to see a BIG hemo construct, make taloses move like jetbikes (as they do in the path books), and bring on the castigators

11. I wouldnt expect Incubi unlocked as troops...look at the orks book and 7th in general...everything can score so no reason to change the force org...

12. Let me put my archon on a bike or skyboard, let me give my hemo scourge wings

13. Wych weapons in general need to go back to 3rd edition rules, individual rules can stay but i want to buy the old wych weapons for my squads...Give blasters back to wyches

14. If guardians are BS4, then DE need to be BS5...Guardians have no business being bs4, even if they ever were in one of the temples, they COMPLETELY give up their path when they leave and so aside from having a warmask they lack the skill of the temples...on the flip side, DE fight every day to survive every day life...

I'll be honest, the only experience I have with 3rd ed Dark Eldar was the on time I got tabled on turn 2 without inflicting a single wound.

So, what did horrorfex grenades do?

I don't think Malys will go go. She'll at the most get her third name, something like Reb'Elle.

Horrorfex/Terrorfex were a blast weapon that could go on either a Sybarite or Raider (maybe other stuff, don't recall). Limited range, but instead of wounds the weapon caused a pinning check at a penalty equal to models over the first covered by the blast. So often it was a -2, which even Marines tended to fail a lot. Generally you could sail up, get two chances to pin a unit, and then deal with greater threats while the tac squads or whatever sat around doing nothing at all for the next turn. Usually you could hit with a couple of Raiders, then annihilate another problem unit with your infantry once the Terminators or whatnot were pinned. It was devastating, then again in that rule set there was an absurd amount of Fearless going around. I think that's somewhat represented by the Phantasm Launcher's Blind attack, which is nice.

Subbed to keep an eye on any Updates

The BoLS game wire predicts a DE release well before November.

Shocking!

Bell of Lost Souls jumps on the bandwagon after a reliable source breaks something elsewhere!

 Kanluwen wrote:
Shocking!

Bell of Lost Souls jumps on the bandwagon after a reliable source breaks something elsewhere!

Harsh....yet fair

 Captain Blood wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Shocking!

Bell of Lost Souls jumps on the bandwagon after a reliable source breaks something elsewhere!

Harsh....yet fair

who is a reliable source. Hope you aren't calling naftka reliable.

Havik110 wrote:

 Captain Blood wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Shocking!

Bell of Lost Souls jumps on the bandwagon after a reliable source breaks something elsewhere!

Harsh....yet fair

who is a reliable source. Hope you aren't calling naftka reliable.

Two things: One, I lol'd at Kan's post. That was good. Two, Father Gabe is pretty much Natfka's only reliable source.

 Random Dude wrote:
The BoLS game wire predicts a DE release well before November.

Yea but of what year?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As much as I would hate to see the baron, lady or duke vanish, any could be built fairly close to what they are now by letting archons take skyboards or bikes and with warlord traits. I would rather they stay and receive models but it hasn't been the trend.

I'd be more angered if they still disallow bike/board archons AND remove the above.

Relic Skyboard and Relic Jetbike will solve that, eh?

I can't see the Void Raven being a Superheavy, seeing as they're only charging Landraider prices. It's a shame though, as I'm not sure what else would fit in that slot for them. Maybe rebrand the Dais of Destruction as a super heavy skimmer with transport capacity and ridiculous levels of firepower?

Or the Voidraven is going to be a dual kit with something meant to be like the Vampire Raider or Vampire Hunter.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Or the Voidraven is going to be a dual kit with something meant to be like the Vampire Raider or Vampire Hunter.

Void Raven has been designed for years now, just not released. I don't expect them to redesign it now.

Some logical assumptions on kits based on Father Gabe and the needs of the codex:
Void Raven kit with implosion missiles, void mine. Large flier kit.
Incubi 5 pack with parts to make Drazhar. Klaivex/Demiklaves option, maybe a few new wargear choices for incubi.
Wracks 10 pack, with parts to make an acothyst/haemonculus and a good proportion of the arcane weapons/wargear options. Wracks probably move to troops to make coven equal to warriors and wych cult.
Grotesques 3 pack large infantry. Stay elite, as the coven elite unit (to go alongside truebloods/bloodbrides.
2-4 clampacks. Archon, Succubus likely. Vect on foot possibly. Maybe a character on bike or board, since the SAG mek shows they will do single larger characters now.
Codex
Set of cards with tactical cards that replace 1-6 with objectives like turboboosting x units, generating power through pain tokens, ect. Maybe a 6 pack of cards for combat drugs?

THESE ARE LOGICAL SPECULATION, NOTHING MORE.

Rules speculation-
Duke, Baron, Malys disappear unless they get models. Decapatator stays, with model to be added to a mandrake kit eventually.
Drazhar darting strike to change, possibly to let him select who he wants to fight in a challenge, rather than enemy choice?
Razorwing moves to FA to match other fliers, Void Raven stays in HS, gets some buffs. Maybe give it missiles base like the razorwing? Or remove the razorwing missiles and make them purchasable addons?
Wracks probably move to troops to make coven equal to warriors and wych cult.
Vect and his dais become a lord of war.
Power through pain gets updated, possibly with more results or results that have you spend tokens? They already generate bookkeeping as is, may as well make more use out of them.
Wych dodge save working against overwatch and/or tormentor grenades on vehicles deny overwatch.
No innate psychic defense, but possibly bonuses to killing psykers, more variety of anti-psyker arcane wargear.
Don't expect new weapon options for the Ravager, Bikes, Scourges, Wyches, Hellions that are not in their kit.
Flickerfields may change to a jink bonus of some sort.
Weapon options for trueborn will likely get nerfed some, probably to 2 special/1 heavy per 5 models rather than a flat 4 may take/2 may take like it is now.
Beastmasters likely nerfed somehow.

GW also likes adding some oddballs, so some speculation there:
Dais could become large skimmer version of a "Land Raider", more transport, more weapons than raider or ravager, as a HS choice or DT for Vect.
Path of Archon has Vect using corrupted wraithguard variants with guns and claws, those could ft in HS/Elite respectively.
More representation of ertain factions in various slots- Coven has no real FA units- Hellions and Reavers are wych cult aligned, Scourges are generally warrior aligned, and beastmasters are again rather wych cultish. Razorwing would add a warrior unit basically, still leaving no real coven fast attack. Likewise, there is no real wych units in HS, though that may be intentional. A dais of destruction as a big open topped skimmer that can hold 20 would maybe fix that though.

AGAIN SPECULATION ONLY

I'd be surprised if they took the Decapitator out of the book, simply because his background is so perfectly over-the-top grimdark it hurts (which means it fits into 40k perfectly). He collects skulls and arranges them all in his lair facing a singular point because he hopes it'll open up a hole in reality and kill everything.

Not even Chaos Space Marines are that creepy.

Potential models per kit was briefly touched on by others in another short (now locked) thread:

A Voidraven Bomber listed at $81.00 and a new Incubi box set at $29.75 are mentioned

If you look at the recent Ork release, plus the AM, SM etc releases we can see that $29.75 for a box is very cheap, and relatively close to the plastic monopose clamshells ($26USD for the new painboy). Is it possible this reliable source mixed up GBP with USD?. Meaning the voidraven is more in the superheavy/LoW/Knight range.

Or are Incubi in a box of 3 (~$10 per model is very comparable to recent releases). With GW trying to get the cost per box down thinking it will prevent sticker shock.


The only other possibility that I can think of is that the Ork release is tanking on them and they are cutting prices on new releases.

 Sidstyler wrote:
I'd be surprised if they took the Decapitator out of the book, simply because his background is so perfectly over-the-top grimdark it hurts (which means it fits into 40k perfectly). He collects skulls and arranges them all in his lair facing a singular point because he hopes it'll open up a hole in reality and kill everything.

Not even Chaos Space Marines are that creepy.

Very true and a +1 to you sir

Reading through the Dark Eldar book shortly after their release, I was very quickly taken by Drazhar. The story is cool, and just look at the artwork:



I thought "I need this miniature". Imagine my disappointment when I saw the silly mantis guy.

Malys will probably disappear, because she's a girl without a model.