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Shadowfield didn't need a points boost, it needed a line "This save may not be rerolled"

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Shadowfield didn't need a points boost, it needed a line "This save may not be rerolled"

Agreed. If it fails, it fails, deal with it. Having to pay more for it because there's the possibility that if you've allied in psykers & have rolled the right powers and managed to cast each time without it being denied *pauses for breath* ...that you can reroll the one.

I really hope that not all of this rumors are true ,because there is not even a single buffed unit that we can use as core of the army (mandrakes doesnt count)

Vargheist wrote:
I really hope that not all of this rumors are true ,because there is not even a single buffed unit that we can use as core of the army (mandrakes doesnt count)

Looks like Shard Carbine Trueborn in raiders with splinter racks and nightshields.

It looks like the worst codex update to follow the best codex update of all time. No Dais, no dice. No thanks, GW. I will continue to use my 5th codex. Those in my gaming circle have never complained about my 5th codex, so I see no reason to change to a codex that doesn't have the rules for all the models in my army. My hope is that most non-tournament players do the same. Also, what is the point of removing all the conversion possibilities from a codex? Units that don't have models inspire the hobby. It engages the imagination and has hobbyists searching the GW webstore for bits, then spending 4x as much as they would on a single unit from the shelf. The GW hobby I love is fading away. I love to see unique conversions from the imagination of the community. It's inspiring. Stripping the hobby of this takes away so much of the customization and personalizing of armies. I am going to miss that aspect of the hobby. No more new units to get exited about conversions ideas from the community. That is the reality right now. It seems that those who are going to buy this codex are doing so with their tails between their legs like beaten dogs. DON'T DO IT IF YOU AREN'T HAPPY WITH THE RULES CHANGES. I am not. Please do not be the mindless, automaton, one-dimensional people that GW think you are. PLEASE DON'T BUY THIS CODEX IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE ABSENCE OF THE SPECIAL CHARACTERS. Do not be OK with this. PLEASE DO NOT BUY THIS IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE ABSENCE OF A LOW IN A 7TH BOOK.
DO NOT BUY IT AND SEE IF YOU LIKE IT. READ IT IN THE STORE AND THEN BUY IT IF YOU FEEL THAT IT"S WORTH $50 TO NOT GET WHAT YOU WANT. This gak has got to stop. GW is doing it wrong and they need to f**king know.

 EYEofTERROR wrote:
It looks like the worst codex update to follow the best codex update of all time.

Templars. At least you're not folded into Eldar.

 EYEofTERROR wrote:
It looks like the worst codex update to follow the best codex update of all time. No Dais, no dice. No thanks, GW. I will continue to use my 5th codex. Those in my gaming circle have never complained about my 5th codex, so I see no reason to change to a codex that doesn't have the rules for all the models in my army. My hope is that most non-tournament players do the same. Also, what is the point of removing all the conversion possibilities from a codex? Units that don't have models inspire the hobby. It engages the imagination and has hobbyists searching the GW webstore for bits, then spending 4x as much as they would on a single unit from the shelf. The GW hobby I love is fading away. I love to see unique conversions from the imagination of the community. It's inspiring.

GW is in the process of removing everything and anything that doesn't have an official kit. It goes back to the whole "use official Citadel woods" for the new Wood Elf book (and obviously much further)- if there isn't a model for it, GW doesn't want it in their books anymore.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 EYEofTERROR wrote:
It looks like the worst codex update to follow the best codex update of all time.

Templars. At least you're not folded into Eldar.

I can't recall exactly, but didn't you guys end up losing the rules for the Emperor's Champion with that change? I know there were changes people were largely unhappy with.

BT kept Emperor's Champions, but they're now far more expensive than they used to be and nowhere near as good. Sad really.

Still currious as to why we have "codex leaks" without pictures.

I'm hoping for a Grey Knight style leak... so I don't have to waste 50 bucks on a 'update.'

 extremefreak17 wrote:
Still currious as to why we have "codex leaks" without pictures.

Weird, isn't it? Makes one wonder...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 EYEofTERROR wrote:
It looks like the worst codex update to follow the best codex update of all time.

Templars. At least you're not folded into Eldar.

Ah the classic I got raped way harder dude, so your raping shouldn't matter to you argument. Was waiting for that one to rear its head.

 extremefreak17 wrote:
Still currious as to why we have "codex leaks" without pictures.

This seems to be what happens with most releases- we get these posts of information that are usually pretty consistent with what's in the book, and then a day or two later someone who has the book gets brave enough to leak the actual pages.

Plus, most of the information leaked is consistent with previous codex releases. The removal of all special characters/options that don't have models, retweaks of some units, unexplicable worsening of units that weren't amazing in the first place (i.e. wyches with no haywire grenades), and dulling of interesting abilities with the unrecognized loss of total ability for other units (i.e. reavers losing bladevane attacks, they have no ability to do anything now).

And of course some units will get a bit better, yes. But you'll have lost so much effectiveness elsewhere you're almost back to waiting for the next book! (Just the way GW likes it )

I wish I could say this isn't how it is, but...well...

The whole Vect LoW thing is really bothering me though...there has to be something we are not seing yet.

I'm still waiting. Not that I think these rumored changes are bad, but the echo chamber is hilarious. Faeit, BoLS, Warseer forums --- everyone is reposting the EXACT same words written in an anonymous /tg post from last night and crediting it to "Anonymous sources."

Not same rules, the exact same words.

Taking all this with a MAMMOTH grain of salt until we see some scans and/or proof anyone has the book in their hands. Until then this will be like a free Ragnar with drop pods.

The reason we got the SW Logan Claus and won't be getting the Vect-the-Hutt skimmer is because the former is Space Marines. And Space Marines sell, riding wolves, holding guitars-whatever derivative of Marine there is, it will sell.

The Vect kit is too big to be worth the investment in GW's mind. In the old days, they would have left the model in the book for your converting delight. But these are the new days, where anything that doesn't have a model has to go.

Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk about this (and apologies if I ever come off that way), but this is the M.O. GW works under now.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 EYEofTERROR wrote:
It looks like the worst codex update to follow the best codex update of all time.

Templars. At least you're not folded into Eldar.

Ah the classic I got raped way harder dude, so your raping shouldn't matter to you argument. Was waiting for that one to rear its head.

I think he was trying to refute the superlative, which ironically you also quoted, not argue that there was no grounds for criticism at all.

Context. It matters.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 EYEofTERROR wrote:
It looks like the worst codex update to follow the best codex update of all time.

Templars. At least you're not folded into Eldar.

Oh yeah, damn near Squated. OUCH. I guess being "Harlequined" is more accurate. Another example of a missed opportunity by GW. No reason Templars couldn't at least be a digital dex with new units comprised of existing kitbashed kits; Sword Brethren Terminators with GK heads, arms, legs and Forge world shields, etc. GW should be encouraging army wide converting, not discouraging converting entirely.OFF TOPIC, but were I to perform a hostile take over of the company (only way the right person will get the job) I would immediately start releasing armies for models that already exist. Zero production costs minus the books, which should just be digital anyway as these would not be the mainstream armies. Renegade Militarum would be the first. It would use existing models from the AM range mixed with cultists or forsaken, for HQs; add in Dark Apostles, CSM Lords and Sorcerers, renegade psykers, daemon princes and spawn, love to see renegade assassins, and a renegade Taurox would be awesome. Instant new 40k army. Hell, 40k started off as converted fantasy models and it's not like the rules are important. Grey Knights didn't get a single new model, either. Next, Genestealer cults. Again, using existing AM models kitbashed and mixed with genestealers. Just use only bald heads and paint the skin purplish. Give the cultists access to Taurox and sentinels and have them run along side lesser bugs like Rippers and Gargoyles. 3+ units of various types of genestealers, maybe a unit of just broodlords, that can be buffed by the synapse Magus' unique psychic powers. Use a converted Empire wizard for the Magus. Next....Exodite Eldar....the models are already out there for this stuff to become a reality. It seems too easy to me. Everyone would be stoked to convert and spend way too much money.

Any Dark Eldar player actually inspired by the new codex? The new models are nice, but does the Codex inspire you? So far, this codex has inspired thoughts of selling my Dark Eldar, but I love the models and the old codex, so I think I will keep them and use the old rules, which are still inspiring. Thank you Phil Kelly. F-U GW.

 EYEofTERROR wrote:

Any Dark Eldar player actually inspired by the new codex? The new models are nice, but does the Codex inspire you? So far, this codex has inspired thoughts of selling my Dark Eldar, but I love the models and the old codex, so I think I will keep them and use the old rules, which are still inspiring. Thank you Phil Kelly. F-U GW.

I was expecting the worst and kept my excitement measured. It's more a problem with 40k right now that the codex as a whole. It seems all the uniqueness and creativity is being bred out of 40k and put into fantasy. I can't help but feel like this is what happens when too many people complain about unique race-based special rules in favor of making it a streamlined tournament game, regardless of what GW says about the tourney scene. We get watered down codexes with USRs instead of interesting stuff.

Assuming the rumors are accurate, I think the DE become a better playing army with less flavor. The PFP change is superior and means it will be very tough to move a kabalite squad off a backfield objective in late turns.

Deep striking transports opens up a lot of alpha strike opportunities with blasterborn, and if Raiders get thrown in FA like most transports have in 7th dexes, it means there's a big potential to stick Fire Dragons or Wraithguard in there too.

I'm still excited to try new lists, but as someone who likes uniqueness and interesting differences in armies there's a reason I'm playing a lot more fantasy now than 40k,

 Auswin wrote:

 EYEofTERROR wrote:

Any Dark Eldar player actually inspired by the new codex? The new models are nice, but does the Codex inspire you? So far, this codex has inspired thoughts of selling my Dark Eldar, but I love the models and the old codex, so I think I will keep them and use the old rules, which are still inspiring. Thank you Phil Kelly. F-U GW.

I was expecting the worst and kept my excitement measured. It's more a problem with 40k right now that the codex as a whole. It seems all the uniqueness and creativity is being bred out of 40k and put into fantasy. I can't help but feel like this is what happens when too many people complain about unique race-based special rules in favor of making it a streamlined tournament game, regardless of what GW says about the tourney scene. We get watered down codexes with USRs instead of interesting stuff.

Assuming the rumors are accurate, I think the DE become a better playing army with less flavor. The PFP change is superior and means it will be very tough to move a kabalite squad off a backfield objective in late turns.

Deep striking transports opens up a lot of alpha strike opportunities with blasterborn, and if Raiders get thrown in FA like most transports have in 7th dexes, it means there's a big potential to stick Fire Dragons or Wraithguard in there too.

I'm still excited to try new lists, but as someone who likes uniqueness and interesting differences in armies there's a reason I'm playing a lot more fantasy now than 40k,

I think this would be true if GW actually paid attention to the customers. But they've said themselves that they don't do market research, and I can't see playstyle analysis being something even in their radar if market doesn't matter!

Plus, the game doesn't have to become bland with removal of unique race-based special rules. GW could always go the route of WMH and have a huge master list of USRs that only pop up on units from time to time (like with the reavers having the blade vane attacks- that could be made into a USR that I'm sure could be applied to another unit in a different army). The uniqueness could come from interesting combinations of USRs, and then each army can still have its own unique race abilities (like PFP for instance).

I think 40k's troubles just come from the fact that GW doesn't give a damn. There's no need to produce high quality rules material because people buy the stuff no matter what- 40k is the biggest tabletop game out there! (and in their opinion, can never be challenged). WHFB has suffered tremendously, which is why we're seeing some genuine effort being put into new materials. The game is at a point of "sink-or-float"- even GW can see tanking sales numbers and realize change is necessary. I just think they'll end up applying the same mindset to 40k, which is a terrible since the health of 40k is tantamount to GW's continued success as a business.

Don't DS transports count as cruising speed? Therefore Trueborn, or whatever, will be snap-shotting the turn they arrive, Splinter Racks will mitigate this slightly, but you're looking at facing a turn of fire and/or assault before getting a chance to act at full effectiveness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, my bad, it's combat speed, so not as bad.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Don't DS transports count as cruising speed? Therefore Trueborn, or whatever, will be snap-shotting the turn they arrive, Splinter Racks will mitigate this slightly, but you're looking at facing a turn of fire and/or assault before getting a chance to act at full effectiveness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, my bad, it's combat speed, so not as bad.

And you can also disembark now in 7th. Could be usefull to get that extra range for some allied Scytheguard.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Don't DS transports count as cruising speed? Therefore Trueborn, or whatever, will be snap-shotting the turn they arrive, Splinter Racks will mitigate this slightly, but you're looking at facing a turn of fire and/or assault before getting a chance to act at full effectiveness.

Nope, count as combat speed after arriving via DS per the entry in the BRB. They'll fire at full BS.

If the rumors are true about Kabalites down down 1 pt, and Trueborn being a 3pt upgrade with no limit on special weapons we're looking at 165 pts for a deep striking venom with 5 blasterborn. Which is 30 pts cheaper than s combi-sternguard squad. Not bad for a suicide unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 extremefreak17 wrote:


And you can also disembark now in 7th. Could be usefull to get that extra range for some allied Scytheguard.

Yes, also in a dual-cannon venom it means the blasterborn/whatever can concentrate on transports/vehicles while still pumping the venom shots into a backfield infantry unit or MC.

Finally, if the relics are true there are some serious leadership shenanigans you can do with an allied telepathy farseer or a spirit seer. Terrify them for -1 LD, throw them with a relic armor Archon for -2 then shriek, in the following shooting phase hit them with the torment launcher.

Wait, so does that - according to the rumours - mean that Trueborn are Troops now?

Blakman wrote:
Wait, so does that - according to the rumours - mean that Trueborn are Troops now?

According to the rumors Trueborn and Bloodbrides are still elites at 3 pts more than Warriors/Wyches.

 Auswin wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Don't DS transports count as cruising speed? Therefore Trueborn, or whatever, will be snap-shotting the turn they arrive, Splinter Racks will mitigate this slightly, but you're looking at facing a turn of fire and/or assault before getting a chance to act at full effectiveness.

Nope, count as combat speed after arriving via DS per the entry in the BRB. They'll fire at full BS.

If the rumors are true about Kabalites down down 1 pt, and Trueborn being a 3pt upgrade with no limit on special weapons we're looking at 165 pts for a deep striking venom with 5 blasterborn. Which is 30 pts cheaper than s combi-sternguard squad. Not bad for a suicide unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 extremefreak17 wrote:


And you can also disembark now in 7th. Could be usefull to get that extra range for some allied Scytheguard.

Yes, also in a dual-cannon venom it means the blasterborn/whatever can concentrate on transports/vehicles while still pumping the venom shots into a backfield infantry unit or MC.

Finally, if the relics are true there are some serious leadership shenanigans you can do with an allied telepathy farseer or a spirit seer. Terrify them for -1 LD, throw them with a relic armor Archon for -2 then shriek, in the following shooting phase hit them with the torment launcher.

Roll the Spiritseer on Runes of Battle, try for Horrify. (-3 LD)

 Auswin wrote:


If the rumors are true about Kabalites down down 1 pt, and Trueborn being a 3pt upgrade with no limit on special weapons we're looking at 165 pts for a deep striking venom with 5 blasterborn. Which is 30 pts cheaper than s combi-sternguard squad. Not bad for a suicide unit.

Hey Auswin, is someone leaking points costs now? Where can I go to read this?

This was the original /tg post that everyone is reposting now as new rumors. It has the 3pt trueborn upgrade.

http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/35160620/dark-eldar-codex-leaks

I am just sad that we have not heard that Archons can take jetbikes/skyboards/scourge wings. I just want my Archons to be able to join those squads.

 lambsandlions wrote:
I am just sad that we have not heard that Archons can take jetbikes/skyboards/scourge wings. I just want my Archons to be able to join those squads.

I wouldn't hold your breath on these options unfortunately. No official models = no option (excluding Space Marines, which have so many kits than even GW recognizes easy conversion potential).