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well they're making a new succubus and archon model. If they were going to do it, now would be the time.

 Mechanical Crow wrote:
Its going to be interesting how this interacts with the Eldar book. A lot of it looks like Rent-a-raider for the eldar CC units.

Good thing - My Howling Banshees may actually have a way to be used...........I can Have Incubi on one and Banshees on another and have a competition betyween them

Bad thing - my Raiders just become even better targets for everyones favourite OP unit - Cheese Serpents :(

Maybe I'm on an island, but I'm excited. Prior to Grey Knights I was gutted by the changes and felt the army was going to suck due to a lack of AT (which they do without allies) but in playtesting them they performed a lot better.

If these are the rumors that are causing people to think the sky is falling then I think the Dark Eldar are positioned well.

Will they immediately become a top-table force? Hell no. There are matchups they will struggle with as a solo army. Anything with drop pods and long-range ignores cover will hurt, badly. That said, I think the army will be in a better place than it was.

Some of the proposed nerfs suck (again, if rumors are to be believed). I love Huskblades and didn't think they were OP at AP2, but I guess I understand.

The tradeoff for deep striking vehicles, an overhauled PFP and 3+ jinks on nightshields are all pretty big changes that give more survivability.

The ability to stash a unit of kabalites in the backfield puts your opponent on a timer. If you have an objective nearby they'll have to find a way to kill them before turn 5, otherwise it will be very tough to move 20 bodies with 5+ FNP and Fearless.

Actually making the Archon court good has big ramifications and a lot of interesting ways to form a bodyguard.

Finally the potential for allies with craftworld and devastating. Losing the Baron hurts, but that was absolutely going or getting his rule removed.

Heck, throwing a few Warlocks in a venom to move around and buff DE units has huge potential. It could mean Incubi hitting at S6 on the charge, or giving them 2+ armor.

Well , I dont belive any of this rumors until codex comes out or i see photos , because currently on 4chan we have like 3 different opinions about everythig in the codex and i think most of this is simply fake.
So lets w8 this week and then start crying .

Warlocks can only buff their own unit, cant cast blessings in a transport, and cant join Incubi.

Everything else looks solid. Do Mandrakes have PFP?

 extremefreak17 wrote:
Warlocks can only buff their own unit, cant cast blessings in a transport, and cant join Incubi.

Everything else looks solid. Do Mandrakes have PFP?

Derp... my bad. Forgot the "targets the psyker" thing.

Mandrakes should have PFP. I don't think they'd go to the effort to over-simplify PFP and then have it only apply to some units.

Regarding the 4chan rumours: the one with Torment Grenade Launchers sounds asinine and unlikely. A minor assault-deterrent upgrade that suddenly can kill several models, including Chaos Terminators, but not something that has ATSKNF?

Also, what's with the Hex Rifle that inflicts ID on Precision Shots? Somebody's forgotten that in 7th Edition the model either has explicit Precision Shots USR or it can't make them?

Venom Blade can be taken only by an Acothyst? What about the Venom Blade that comes with the Scourges kit?

There is a number of other rumours that contradict one another depending on the source, like the Fliers having 5++ upgrade but no Flickerfields save for Venoms. In short, pics or didn't happen.

 SarisKhan wrote:
Regarding the 4chan rumours: the one with Torment Grenade Launchers sounds asinine and unlikely. A minor assault-deterrent upgrade that suddenly can kill several models, including Chaos Terminators, but not something that has ATSKNF?

Also, what's with the Hex Rifle that inflicts ID on Precision Shots? Somebody's forgotten that in 7th Edition the model either has explicit Precision Shots USR or it can't make them?

Venom Blade can be taken only by an Acothyst? What about the Venom Blade that comes with the Scourges kit?

There is a number of other rumours that contradict one another depending on the source, like the Fliers having 5++ upgrade but no Flickerfields save for Venoms. In short, pics or didn't happen.

I'm right there with you. There's a lot of weirdness. I could see the alleged Torment Launcher not working against Fearless, but I can't think of a single item in all of 40k that calls for it not to work against an army-specific special rule.

Also, the Ossefactor listed is simply too good. Fleshbane AND AP2 means basically an instawound. Hit at 30 man squad of Boyz and suddenly 10-15 are gone.

 SarisKhan wrote:
Regarding the 4chan rumours: the one with Torment Grenade Launchers sounds asinine and unlikely. A minor assault-deterrent upgrade that suddenly can kill several models, including Chaos Terminators, but not something that has ATSKNF?

Also, what's with the Hex Rifle that inflicts ID on Precision Shots? Somebody's forgotten that in 7th Edition the model either has explicit Precision Shots USR or it can't make them?

Venom Blade can be taken only by an Acothyst? What about the Venom Blade that comes with the Scourges kit?

There is a number of other rumours that contradict one another depending on the source, like the Fliers having 5++ upgrade but no Flickerfields save for Venoms. In short, pics or didn't happen.

Yea I have to mirror this. Though certain aspects seem true which is troubling. I absolutely believe that any cool fear inducing items we have will not work on marines. Which is dumb, but definitely believable.

Well to be fair, with the leaked rules, the max an ossefactor could ever kill would be 7. 1+D6, that would aslo assume the all to wound rolles were made and all saves were failed.

 extremefreak17 wrote:
Well to be fair, with the leaked rules, the max an ossefactor could ever kill would be 7. 1+D6, that would aslo assume the all to wound rolles were made and all saves were failed.

Aaah, that got edited or changed since I first saw the leak. Initially it said "all models in the unit suffered a hit equal to the toughness of the model killed."

 Auswin wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Don't DS transports count as cruising speed? Therefore Trueborn, or whatever, will be snap-shotting the turn they arrive, Splinter Racks will mitigate this slightly, but you're looking at facing a turn of fire and/or assault before getting a chance to act at full effectiveness.

Nope, count as combat speed after arriving via DS per the entry in the BRB. They'll fire at full BS.

If the rumors are true about Kabalites down down 1 pt, and Trueborn being a 3pt upgrade with no limit on special weapons we're looking at 165 pts for a deep striking venom with 5 blasterborn. Which is 30 pts cheaper than s combi-sternguard squad. Not bad for a suicide unit.

People need to stop acting like DS on transports is a new tactic. It was their before and it sucked.

Comparing trueborn to sterns is a bad idea as well. I'd take the pod and sterns over the blasterborn even if it was a 50 point difference. They arrive turn one guaranteed, they can't mishap and can get closer, the pod is way more durable and irritating later, oh and so are the sternguard, and melta wins over blasters 9 times out of ten. Who cares that they are one shot weapons if they are throw away units? This was probably the worst comparison you could make. Oh and taking ten and combat squading cuts the difference using one pod when you consider you will want two DS reserved blaster born anyway for redundancy.

I do think their is some great sounding stuff, taloi units, 4 in 5 scourge weapons and royal courts. Nerfing of the bikes and wargear I think is what killed my positivity though.


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 Auswin wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
Well to be fair, with the leaked rules, the max an ossefactor could ever kill would be 7. 1+D6, that would aslo assume the all to wound rolles were made and all saves were failed.

Aaah, that got edited or changed since I first saw the leak. Initially it said "all models in the unit suffered a hit equal to the toughness of the model killed."

You had to say that, I was thinking it was gimmicky but cool. Now I wish it did what you thought

No DS transports are not new, but it opens the door to some interesting combos if riaders end up in the FA slot. Also, WWP HQ makes this a bit better.

Not saying this is the greatest thing ever, but at the very least it might be fun.

I'd say the one big difference about DSing Dark Eldar transports is that with point reductions they become more viable suicide units. Essentially it's just about getting them down and earning their points back off something bigger and badder.

I'll concede that Trueborn are no marines and that melta is far better than blasters, but I think a sub 175 pt unit is more of a throwaway than drop podding sternguard. Scatter is an issue, but assuming you don't need to pay for retrofire jets it's better overall.

Honestly, I'm also assuming the final webway portal will have "can arrive on turn one." 35 pts for no scatter is too expensive, there has to be a kicker to it.

 Auswin wrote:
I'd say the one big difference about DSing Dark Eldar transports is that with point reductions they become more viable suicide units. Essentially it's just about getting them down and earning their points back off something bigger and badder.

I'll concede that Trueborn are no marines and that melta is far better than blasters, but I think a sub 175 pt unit is more of a throwaway than drop podding sternguard. Scatter is an issue, but assuming you don't need to pay for retrofire jets it's better overall.

Honestly, I'm also assuming the final webway portal will have "can arrive on turn one." 35 pts for no scatter is too expensive, there has to be a kicker to it.

Well it also gives deepstrike to a unit that would not noramlly have it. Fire Dragons come to mind.

 Auswin wrote:
I'd say the one big difference about DSing Dark Eldar transports is that with point reductions they become more viable suicide units. Essentially it's just about getting them down and earning their points back off something bigger and badder.

I'll concede that Trueborn are no marines and that melta is far better than blasters, but I think a sub 175 pt unit is more of a throwaway than drop podding sternguard. Scatter is an issue, but assuming you don't need to pay for retrofire jets it's better overall.

Honestly, I'm also assuming the final webway portal will have "can arrive on turn one." 35 pts for no scatter is too expensive, there has to be a kicker to it.

I don't want it on turn 1. I want to wait until i've got FNP

I thought the Sniper special rule included giving the precision shot to it's attacks?

Hexrifles were never great, just humorous when they did something big like pop a MC. Now they are basically just a sniper weapon, the gimmick is more gimmicky somehow.


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I REALLY hope scourge drop to ~17ppm and 4 in 5 can take haywire blasters. That coupled with 3 man Talos units with TL haywire blasters will basically save our AT issue over night freeing up other slots that were necessary to dedicate toward more darklight spamming.

 Red Corsair wrote:

I REALLY hope scourge drop to ~17ppm and 4 in 5 can take haywire blasters. That coupled with 3 man Talos units with TL haywire blasters will basically save our AT issue over night freeing up other slots that were necessary to dedicate toward more darklight spamming.

I'm all for anything that would allow me to break out my scourges again. I love them, but they've always been lackluster for me. A price drop and multiple haywire shots are legit.

The three Talos thing is meta-changing for DE, but I'm still not sold that they'll be a unit. Thinking it could be someone misreading and seeing that they can be taken 1-3 in a single HS slot.

 Auswin wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

I REALLY hope scourge drop to ~17ppm and 4 in 5 can take haywire blasters. That coupled with 3 man Talos units with TL haywire blasters will basically save our AT issue over night freeing up other slots that were necessary to dedicate toward more darklight spamming.

I'm all for anything that would allow me to break out my scourges again. I love them, but they've always been lackluster for me. A price drop and multiple haywire shots are legit.

The three Talos thing is meta-changing for DE, but I'm still not sold that they'll be a unit. Thinking it could be someone misreading and seeing that they can be taken 1-3 in a single HS slot.

Well based on that white dwarf report its hard to tell how taloi will pan out. It was after all an apoc game by studio geeks.


REALLY want scourge to not suck, here here good sir!

 megatrons2nd wrote:
I thought the Sniper special rule included giving the precision shot to it's attacks?

It does. A roll of 6 to hit gives precision and a 6 to wound is AP2.

Precision deep strike for any unit is kind if a big deal.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Hexrifles were never great, just humorous when they did something big like pop a MC. Now they are basically just a sniper weapon, the gimmick is more gimmicky somehow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I REALLY hope scourge drop to ~17ppm and 4 in 5 can take haywire blasters. That coupled with 3 man Talos units with TL haywire blasters will basically save our AT issue over night freeing up other slots that were necessary to dedicate toward more darklight spamming.

Sorry, but I don't see the "4 in 5 can take special weapons" happening. If you want 4 Haywire Blasters, for instance, you need 2 boxes, (10 guys). GW won't want you to buy bits from online sources that break open boxes and sell them off as bits. Don't get me wrong, I'd be all over that. I just don't think it will happen, sadly.

Nocturnus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Hexrifles were never great, just humorous when they did something big like pop a MC. Now they are basically just a sniper weapon, the gimmick is more gimmicky somehow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I REALLY hope scourge drop to ~17ppm and 4 in 5 can take haywire blasters. That coupled with 3 man Talos units with TL haywire blasters will basically save our AT issue over night freeing up other slots that were necessary to dedicate toward more darklight spamming.

Sorry, but I don't see the "4 in 5 can take special weapons" happening. If you want 4 Haywire Blasters, for instance, you need 2 boxes, (10 guys). GW won't want you to buy bits from online sources that break open boxes and sell them off as bits. Don't get me wrong, I'd be all over that. I just don't think it will happen, sadly.

And yet Devistators come with one of each type of heavy weapon. Where do you think all those other weapons come from? I've never seen anyone ever field devistators with just the box contents.


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So far what I'm reading isn't exactly making me excited. Rather indifferent. I've stopped actually playing the game, but when guys like Vect are removed it just kills any interest that I might have had about playing the game.

Not that I ever fielded Vect or had any intention of fielding him. But when such iconic characters are removed, the whole army flavor and feel just suffers.

 Jayden63 wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Hexrifles were never great, just humorous when they did something big like pop a MC. Now they are basically just a sniper weapon, the gimmick is more gimmicky somehow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I REALLY hope scourge drop to ~17ppm and 4 in 5 can take haywire blasters. That coupled with 3 man Talos units with TL haywire blasters will basically save our AT issue over night freeing up other slots that were necessary to dedicate toward more darklight spamming.

Sorry, but I don't see the "4 in 5 can take special weapons" happening. If you want 4 Haywire Blasters, for instance, you need 2 boxes, (10 guys). GW won't want you to buy bits from online sources that break open boxes and sell them off as bits. Don't get me wrong, I'd be all over that. I just don't think it will happen, sadly.

And yet Devistators come with one of each type of heavy weapon. Where do you think all those other weapons come from? I've never seen anyone ever field devistators with just the box contents.

Yeah, I'm in agreement with Jayden. GW doesn't want units for models that they don't currently sell, but having to buy multiple of the same kit is well within their prerogative. It's just those darn bitz sellers that get in the way! /s

 Mr Morden wrote:


Power form pain was fine for me
Night shields are not as good now
Wyches are still total drek against other infantry - you know the ones they are supposed to be better against - should have just copied the stats from Dark Elf Witch Elves. I bet they still have WS 4 FFS.

PFP didn't play a huge roll from me. It was a tricky lock/key to get more than two units with descent buffs. Those were almost always Incubi.
Night shields will take some getting used to.

Witches are awesome anti-vehicle because of the Haywire grenades. Amazingly so. Let the long range troops with tons of poison deal with the infantry.

Wyches will also get a boost from the new PFP rules. As you no longer have to kill a unit to get FNP, they suddenly now get a save vs. overwatch and suddenly have two saves in that first round of combat. I really think large units of Wyches might become viable again as something more than just Haywire delivery systems.

I don't remember ever being dealt grievous wounds from a round of overwatch. Maybe 1-2 models tops, and that's hardly worth worrying about.

 Moopy wrote:
I don't remember ever being dealt grievous wounds from a round of overwatch. Maybe 1-2 models tops, and that's hardly worth worrying about.

You don't play against Tau too often, do you?

Nocturnus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Hexrifles were never great, just humorous when they did something big like pop a MC. Now they are basically just a sniper weapon, the gimmick is more gimmicky somehow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I REALLY hope scourge drop to ~17ppm and 4 in 5 can take haywire blasters. That coupled with 3 man Talos units with TL haywire blasters will basically save our AT issue over night freeing up other slots that were necessary to dedicate toward more darklight spamming.

Sorry, but I don't see the "4 in 5 can take special weapons" happening. If you want 4 Haywire Blasters, for instance, you need 2 boxes, (10 guys). GW won't want you to buy bits from online sources that break open boxes and sell them off as bits. Don't get me wrong, I'd be all over that. I just don't think it will happen, sadly.

Yet currently there are more then enough weapons for all five to have some special/heavy weapon. GW doesn't care what the config is. As jayden pointed out, almost every other army has multiple units that can field gear that requires more then one box. Prior to the update I used to field 5 scourge with 4 splinter canons, the fifth ed codex nerfed them into the 2 per five crap, I am hoping they fix this. Scourge may well become the next big thing. Points adjust and allowing 4 per five is all it would take to make them amazing actually.


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 Moopy wrote:
I don't remember ever being dealt grievous wounds from a round of overwatch. Maybe 1-2 models tops, and that's hardly worth worrying about.

Well thats fine for you, but some of us play against massed twin linked and wall of flame up the wazoo opponents making them dead on arrival.