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So, simple question: should I give my 2 platoons of 2 combined squads who are at the frontline 2 autocannons each ? Because they are going to be backed up by the 2 PCS with autocannons and snipers and by artillery so is it worth it ?

Put autocannons anywhere you can

Ok, thanks

I would not recommend putting AC everywhere...Actually I believe LCs are a lot better atm.

Why? AP 2 - better infantry and monstrous creature armour penetration, better vehicle dammage results...
S 9 - enough to kill EVERY vehicle, even AV14 (AC can do nothing against that)

AC has more shots, but S7 and AP4 is not good thing nowadays...not for that cost (3 infantry unit + AC...180points.......3 infantry + LC....210 points......for 30 points better, which is about 17% more expensive in this example, you get a lot)

Don't put autocannons everywhere. They're a niche weapon only really worth it against AV10, while lascannons will bring out your true warrior and kill anything.

As for HWSs, the problem with them isn't that they don't have good firepower, but that they're fragile. As they can't make use of the combined squads rule, there's really no way of solving this. In the end, they sort of wind up being just first blood bait. They are pretty cheap, though, so you can spam a lot of them, but odds are good you're going to crowd out your best fire lanes early on and have to settle for setting up in worse positions. Less so if you're relying on artillery, but it can still be a problem.

Alright, but this BS 3 of my guardsmen is bugging my...Should I give the AC my guardsmen to have a better punch against infantry and give the lascannon my PCS? I asked this on an other thread an he told my I shouldn't go for giving the lascannon the PCS because of their BS 3...But it's going to spread out my HWS in 3 different squads ( including my CCS), so the enemy can't go for one single unit.
So what to do

We all have different opinions, all i'm saying is that AC are cheap and effective, always were, always will be.

So that's what I recommend, or better yet play with both (use base with no model on it) and see which one you like more.

 Ailaros wrote:
Don't put autocannons everywhere. They're a niche weapon only really worth it against AV10, while lascannons will bring out your true warrior and kill anything.

As for HWSs, the problem with them isn't that they don't have good firepower, but that they're fragile. As they can't make use of the combined squads rule, there's really no way of solving this. In the end, they sort of wind up being just first blood bait. They are pretty cheap, though, so you can spam a lot of them, but odds are good you're going to crowd out your best fire lanes early on and have to settle for setting up in worse positions. Less so if you're relying on artillery, but it can still be a problem.

Orders for HWS is tempting, but I agree, they're easy bait for enemy shooting. I'll only give them HB or AC. I'm toying with armored sentinel squads as HWS replacements. They're more points and can't take orders, but it might be worth it for the survivability.

After making of my mind, I am going to give the lascannons*dramatic drum*my PCS and my CCS, same BS 3 as the normal HWS, even better for my CCS, they are going to lay back the platoons giving orders and blasting away vehicles, and the enemy has to focus on 3 different units instead of one. But now thinking of, should I give the PCS grenade launchers or snipers as they are going just to support my platoons ?

3 Flamers a Heavy Flamer and add a vendetta. Easy Bake Oven imperial guard style...

General Orange wrote:Alright, but this BS 3 of my guardsmen is bugging me

Welcome to the imperial guard. If BS3 is a dealbreaker, then there's not much you can do. Guard work by quantity, not quality.

General Orange wrote:Should I give the AC my guardsmen to have a better punch against infantry and give the lascannon my PCS?

Autocannons are pretty crummy anti-infantry weapon. In the very least, take heavy bolters for this job, but there are other things still better yet in your codex to handle this.

Personally, I buy a lascannon literally every time I am able to do so, PCSs, CCS, PISs, russes. Everywhere. A few BS3 lascannons is annoying. Twenty is crap-your-pants scary.

If FW is an option, sabres are better than HWS in literally every way

Tactical_Genius wrote:
If FW is an option, sabres are better than HWS in literally every way

Really wish we had a camo or entrenchment option on the HWS.

Even with those options, the sabres would still be better you're looking at +15 points to gain T7, skyfire, interceptor, extra wounds, twin-link and scout, at the cost of being immobile... it's a no-brainer

Yes yes. If you have forgeworld, you can spam sabres and gun emplacement and beasthunter shells and vultures and push the easy win button all you want.

... moving on to HWSs...

BS 3 is 50% better than Orks!!

 Ailaros wrote:
Yes yes. If you have forgeworld, you can spam sabres and gun emplacement and beasthunter shells and vultures and push the easy win button all you want.

Was this really necessary?
The OP asked if he should use HWS. I said that, if the option was available, Sabres are better. This is a tactics subforum, where people discuss tactics, in order to win, using tactics.
If "the easy win button" is a problem for you, why bother posting in the tactics subforum?

Hes one of those people who are easily offended, there are a few others I know.

But as was asked, I think armoured sentinels with AC or even lascannons are a good idea, marching around with 6 S7 Ap4 shots at 48" (you don't have to march, with that range you can stand behind an aegis line) or 3 S9 Ap2 shots, again what ever your playing vs.

In my meta AC rule out because eldar don't care about your fancy lascannons, but they DO care about twice as many glances from AC.

Tactical_Genius wrote:If "the easy win button" is a problem for you, why bother posting in the tactics subforum?

It's the tactics forum, not drag every thread off topic into forgeworld cheese.

Why even bother posting questions about a guard army? They're not as strong as other armies out there. If "the easy win button" is the point of the tactics forum, then you should tell everybody to stop playing whatever army they were playing and only bother with the strongest builds.

Arbiter wrote:Hes one of those people who are easily offended, there are a few others I know.

I'm actually not easily offended at all, it's just that I'm terse with people who present bad arguments for things.

Presenting hard truths doesn't make me a grump.

Avoiding this thread derivation by not talking about the sabre gun emplacement...

So I guess this answer is yes for giving HWS to any squad possible wich isn't moving. But why does everyone say that AC is one of the best if lascannon is better ? Is it because of the point cost ? Or anything else ?

 Ailaros wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:If "the easy win button" is a problem for you, why bother posting in the tactics subforum?

It's the tactics forum, not drag every thread off topic into forgeworld cheese.

Why even bother posting questions about a guard army? They're not as strong as other armies out there. If "the easy win button" is the point of the tactics forum, then you should tell everybody to stop playing whatever army they were playing and only bother with the strongest builds.

Except that my comment was on-point, given that Sabres are literally HWS+1, and the question was about HWS. It's not like I'd said "OMG HWS are awful take vultures and ABG beasthunters lulz!!!1!1!1eleven"
I was attempting to offer some actually helpful advice, and even added the conditional with regards to FW.

I'm actually not easily offended at all, it's just that I'm terse with people who present bad arguments for things.

Presenting hard truths doesn't make me a grump.

I underlined the bits I have issue with.
What bad arguments?
Which hard truths?

To the OP: yes, HWS are ok. My point was that the option is available to fill the exact same role as the HWS, but with weakness largely removed.
If the OP takes offence at that, fair enough. But please don't hate on people trying to give honest advice.

It's been a well discussed bit of etiquette since time eternal whether a responder to a thread asking about a specific unit should suggest an alterative, rather than actually answer the question.

My preference is to avoid it, especially if all you have to offer in a conversation is "unit X isn't nearly as good as Unit Y, take them instead." If you state then, and also add some points about how to best use the unit being discussed... well, you're at least contributing.

I'm pretty laid back, and often times a lot of very new players may overlook an obvious alternative. However, you have to understand that it gets incredibly grating to regulars in the tactic's forums to see the same (generally useless) comments about taking other units.

So, in the long run, you probably aren't being as helpful as you think, and you're being more annoying than you think. If you are okay with that, then godspeed, but be aware you're going to trigger that reaction.

That's fair enough, and normally I'd agree, were it not for the fact that the two units are almost identical, except one is better.
I get what you are saying, but I thought Ailaros's response was rather uncalled for.
-TG

WUHU my first thread derivation ! Thanks guys


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Tactical_genius
I am not offended man...

 General Orange wrote:
WUHU my first thread derivation ! Thanks guys


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Tactical_genius
I am not offended man...

Sorry
And yeah I should've worded my post better: I didn't mean to sound like I was calling you offended, just saying that if you were, then I wouldn't have been annoyed about being shut down by Ailaros
I'll take my leave now
-TG

And some people really hate FW and/or can't use it.

Mavnas wrote:
And some people really hate FW and/or can't use it.

Sorry OP.

I wrote:
If FW is an option

No problem. And I don't mind FW, but to expensive for me.
So back to my sheeps, I guess the answer is yes for giving the squads the HWS, but it's has to be right squad, when I give the LC my PCS its not going to waste 8 lasgun shots to shoot at a tank while there is a whole squad of enemy right beside it, and giving the squads an HWS like AC or a missile launcher could damage tougher squads or light vehicles (when there is really nothing to shoot at) and avoiding that a HWT is at one spot and gets killed first or second turn, and for anti infantry weapons we have bloody artilery. Am I right ?

Well, the way to think of IG squads is to ask this question: Are you taking the squad because you want the lasguns and bodies, or are you trying to do damage?

there's nothing wrong with screening units, objective grabbers, etc kept cheap and relaying primarily on the lasguns and cheap special/heavy weapons for any offense. squads like this beneft from the AC, as its the best "cheap" HW, and has the high strength to be semi-useful against anything with toughness.

Alas, IG squads that are trying to do work will almost always take lascannnon/plasma gun. The 6th edition vehicle damage chart makes pentrating hits way, way better than glances, and under the 7th edition chart you'll need Ap2 to have any chance at exploding a vehicle. Part of the problem is that the lascannon, while twice the upgrade cost from the AC, only represents a marginal increase in the squads cost. Compare an AC/GL squad, which is seen as "cheap" at 65pts, and an LC/PG squad, which is expensive at 85pts. The second squad is only 30% more. Deep down, would you rather have three LC/PG squads than four AC/GL?

It's frustrating, because I hate spam, and I like the notion that IG has enough weapons to specialize. The problem is that against hte most dangerous targets (vehicles, MCs, TEQs) the lascannon is clearly superior. Against hordes, Mortars and Heavy bolters don't add all that much compared to the loss of two lasguns (espeically with FRF/SRF). The ML is just a bad option at the points, and would probably still struggle at 10pts. That leaves the AC, which made some hay as reasonably good light armor killing and forcer of saves on high Toughness models. ACs might get a second wind against light AV in 7th, as stripping hull points becomes a more common way to destroy armor, but we'll see.

Back to our sheeps? You're a gauloise away to be leaking French-itude dear cousin.

I use HWS; 1 LC, 1 AC and one mortar. This is meta related, but with my superior range, that grants me 1-2 turn of shooting before my opponent can even get in range of them and start shooting them. and even then, there's the matter of either shooting the HWS or shoot the scoring squads....And I got (somewhat weak) cover on my side

I got 4 squads, 2 with meltaguns only, 2 with ML/GL. Most see the ML as useless for its price, but I like the flexibility it grants me (again meta centric in my case; it's either light transports or hordes mostly), the GL acts as the same, if only with shorter range, but to me, it complements the ML quite fine.

My PCS both got voxes to take adventage of orders; one has flamers for counter assaults, while the other got GLs to add more blasts and Str 6 shots down range. Snipers may be a good choice, but to me this is mostly an anti-infantry/ anti-MC thing, so a little too specialisted for my taste.

As Polonius said, you got to figure out what role the squads/PCS/CCS has; heavy weapons adds a nice punch, but don't expect them to be useful if you're always on the move.

If by 'Frontline' you mean they stand still and blast away, the AC is cheaper and with an extra shot, make it more certain you'll actually get a shot throught. The LC may be more powerful, but roll one die badly, and it does sweet nuthin'.