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So, for how much griping and moaning there is about 40k and fantasy not being serious strategy games (as if this is somehow new), I'm actually finding myself with a problem that goes in the reverse direction.

There are some people I'm interested in getting into mini-wargaming, and 40k might be good fit, but it is a bit... cumbersome? Even if you start small, there's still a lot of rules and a lot of minis and a lot of fluff, etc. etc. So I was looking for something a bit... smaller. Meanwhile, said people are not the hyper-competitive feel-the-burn, lose a lot because that's the only way I can get better types. They're just sort of normal people, who are going to be somewhat put off by failing to notice an endless series of subtle tricks and tactics that causes them to lose.

That means that I'm looking for something that's just sort of lightweight and fun. Preferably something that can have the same kind of silliness of 40k (or moreso) draped over a simple set of mechanics that people who have no background in miniatures or wargamming can sort of just pick it up and play around with it. Build up some comfort and familiarity before moving on to something richer or more strategic.

Unfortunately, my experience isn't all that terribly broad, and it's somewhat out of date (I remember old battletech, for example). I'm sure that in this general gaming renaissance we've had over the last 5-10 years, something has been produced that meets this criteria, but I've been spending that time more or less exclusively buried in 40k.

Anyone have any suggestions, or should I just bite the bullet and try to adapt 40k kill team?

Mordheim and necromunda may be what you are after. For the most part rules make sense and you probably have the models on hand for it too.

Im a mordheim player and I have had moments where whole warbands have fell of a roof trying to get to me, I have seen one guy force a bunch of guys off a cliff to their doom and so on. It takes a campaign to really get the most out of them, so if you have a game group its best to set limits on how many games a week can be played (so that one band doesnt over take the rest) and you will find what you are looking for .

There are also endless expansions and fan stuff to keep you interested. lots of space to change up the rules and if you play by the rules the games will be very different each time.

Can be a lot of fun.

It's a great question, and I'd love to see the answers, too. I would have thought something like Krosmaster Arena would be a good fit, but from watching some demo'ing of it at GenCon I felt that wasn't the case after all.

X-wing may be another, but I'd love to see one that is still 28mm (or similar) based.

I am having a hard time of finding one thats not overly serious. All the ones I have seen or played in are serious haha.

Maybe look at judge dredd? Models look silly so surely the rules are too.

Ted Terranova just released some Rivet Wars tabletop rules. I haven't played them yet, but should get a chance this weekend. I can give you a heads up about them on Mon or Tues?

Gorkamorka is pretty easy and silly, and is along the same lines as Necromunda and Mordheim. As a 40K player, GoMo will seem very familiar. The rules are old and can be clunky though.

Skulldread is good, easy, and very flexible

Song of Blades and Heroes is simple and flexible

7TV is very fun and easy to play. The game does not take itself too seriously either and there are lots of thematic expansions including one for zombies.

Star Wars: X-Wing the Miniatures Game is terribly easy and very accessible

Freebooter's Fate is fairly simple and has some unique, hands on mechanics that are easy to get into. It can be fun and silly as well.

There's also plenty of miniatures-heavy board games that are very simple, such as Super Dungeon Explore and Zombiecide

Of course, you could always go way silly and try Clay-o-Rama!

I would have thought miniature boardgames like Fantasy Flights, Zomicide, SDE etc... would be a good place to start.

And there is always Space Hulk!

I quite like Malifaux, with the Puppet Wars boardgame being a perfect intro in the world to see if it was something you might be interested in.

Zombicide, Super Dungeon Explore are both great games.

We are always looking for good, fun games as most of my players are casual, and have been burnt by over-competitive types.

We are next looking at the Batman miniatures and looking to see how that will play when the next orders come in!

weeble1000 wrote:
Song of Blades and Heroes is simple and flexible

I'll vouch for this. While the ruleset itself is not "silly" as such, you're free to use any models that you want, so you can go way silly in that department.

weeble wrote:Gorkamorka is pretty easy and silly, and is along the same lines as Necromunda and Mordheim. As a 40K player, GoMo will seem very familiar. The rules are old and can be clunky though.

Skulldread is good, easy, and very flexible

Song of Blades and Heroes is simple and flexible

7TV is very fun and easy to play. The game does not take itself too seriously either and there are lots of thematic expansions including one for zombies.

Star Wars: X-Wing the Miniatures Game is terribly easy and very accessible

Freebooter's Fate is fairly simple and has some unique, hands on mechanics that are easy to get into. It can be fun and silly as well.

There's also plenty of miniatures-heavy board games that are very simple, such as Super Dungeon Explore and Zombiecide

Of course, you could always go way silly and try Clay-o-Rama!

Wow, thanks a lot! I've heard of nearly none of these.

Looks like I have some research.

 Smacks wrote:
I would have thought miniature boardgames like Fantasy Flights, Zomicide, SDE etc... would be a good place to start.

And there is always Space Hulk!

So, I sort of simplified a little bit. The people in question have actually played a few games like this. Last night on earth, for example, and some of the dungeon crawlers like Drizzt and Ravenloft.

So yes, they're not actually literally blank slates. They understand the idea of having a certain-looking pawn represent certain other things with character traits, and the idea of moving minis (at least on a grid) so that they can attack stuff.

But I figured lowballing it would be better than highballing it here.

VoiceOfTheForge wrote:I quite like Malifaux

Malifaux, however, I am not interested in. Not for this, at least. It does a great job by some metrics, but not for simplicity. I play 40k and even I was baffled by malifaux. The idea of giving someone eight different character sheets crammed with completely different special abilities and rules they have to more or less memorize in order to remember to use is something too advanced for what I'm going for.

Swastakowey wrote:Mordheim and necromunda may be what you are after.

These were ones that did spring quickly to mind, but I just know so little about them. As best I can tell, necromunda is just 40k kill team with more special rules added on to create persistent characters.

I dont' even know where to acquire a copy of the rules, much less all the bonus content you're talking about. Where does one go to find such things?

There is a website that has HEAPS of all the rules compiled everywhere but apparently its not allowed on dakka stupidly.

Necromunda is very different to 40k. some things similar but over all very different. Make a gang of dudes, choose all their gear and some have skills to choose from. Fight a battle, take territory and reap the rewards.

It will definately do as a stepping stone into skirmish gaming though.

Fuzzy Heroes!

Seriously, this game is probably one of the best fun-to-money ratio games out there! The best part is, you probably already have the minis! All you need to play is any toy (ANY toy) or action figure. The rules lay out a quick, easy system for generating stats for each of your 'minis' based on the toy's physical characteristics. (More limbs means more attacks, being pink will make it easier to hit you, etc.)

And then it's off to the races! The game uses d6s, which I KNOW you already have. All you need to buy is the rulebook. You can set up terrain if you want, or just play on your floor!

The best part is that if you can get some sustained interest in it, then all of a sudden thrift shops and yard sales become warzones as your gaming group devolves into an arms race to see who can find the 'best' toy. For even more variety, you can allow each player to submit more than one toy. (We usually have a $1 per toy buy-in, maximum of 4 at a time on the table.) I once spent $40 at a ring toss trying to win a stuffed Tazmanian Devil with armor and a sword, in hopes of finally beating our reigning champion's team, the limited edition KISS action figures. ((To no avail. KISS is undefeatable.))

It's even got a couple of expansions with some additional rules if you'd like a little more complexity. No joke, this game is worth a look.

I'm going to second trying mini based board games for just a bit of fun. Super-Dungeon Explore, Zombicide, Mansions of Madness, Rivet Wars, all worth a look. If you want something that allows a bit of modelling, Necromunda/Gorka Morka or Mantic's Deadzone might be worth a look.

If sports games are OK, perhaps Blood Bowl or Dread Bowl might be a good idea.

I'd definitely recommend Super Dungeon Explore and Rivet Wars. Both have very easy, straightforward rules.

Mantic's Mars Attacks game comes out soonish too, I remember reading the rules previews during the kickstarter and thinking it too looked very easy and playable without a lot of the fuss that bogs down more complicated games.

weeble1000 wrote:
7TV is very fun and easy to play. The game does not take itself too seriously either and there are lots of thematic expansions including one for zombies.

I've only managed to play this the once, but I support this point. When you've got Spectrum Agents (from Captain Scarlet) going up against the Federation (from Blakes 7), with Doctor Who running around with his sonc screwdriver, you can't really take it too seriously (especially when Captain Magenta makes a case for his own spin off show by going postal with a rifle and winning the game).

And given that you use character archetypes and templates (as well as generic stats for soldiers, minions, mad scientists, etc, etc, etc) you can pretty much import any TV show (existing or one you made up) into it with the right miniatures.

Urban War. You can get starter sets for £25 - £30 and it's a good little system. They've recently revamped it and after many years away from gaming I will be investing in it again.

 Wolfstan wrote:
Urban War... They've recently revamped it...

Have they? I saw they released an awful-looking new faction sometime in late 2012... early 2013 maybe, but it was to a deafening silence as far as I could tell. I remember the thread on Dakka N&R having zero replies, for one. Doesn't really seem to have been any news out there since then, except for their possible 6mm line, if that ever happens. Long ago I realised that Urban Mammoth was a company that promised a lot, but often doesn't deliver.

I suppose they could be announcing loads of cool stuff on Facebook, but if none of that is filtering out as news of interest to the wider gaming world, it doesn't really bode well for the relaunch.

Also, it never struck me as 'silly'; though as I don't play 40K I can't gauge whether it has 'the same kind of silliness'.

Urban War has always been under the gaming radar, which is a shame. All I know is that when I played it, about 5 - 6 years ago it was a fun system. I played Syntha and my mates always grumbled about my naked female cyborg coming over and kicking arse

I second super dungeon explore....its way more fun than I think it should be

Tried the GW kill team rules and they are quite flakey. I'm looking into this alternative kill team ruleset instead: http://heralds-of-ruin.blogspot.se/p/kill-team-rules.html. It seems much more mature than GW:s version.

I don't agree that 40k is a complex game at it's core. It's the amount of special rules that modifies the core mechanisms that makes it difficult for beginners. The key when introducing someone to the game is keeping it simple by fx limiting the game size and number of different unit types.

I had some great fun many years back gamemastering a narrative 40k campaign of sorts for a group of non 40k players. We started out with each player having/being one hero level space marine character with very basic equipment, but with some perk. I think one guy had a missile launcher, there was a medic, a sniper and a chaplain. In the campaign they worked as a team playing scenarios I made up and during games I controlled the opposition. In the first games we played infantry vs infantry only and at that level I feel the 40k rules are quite easy to understand. Once they got the hang of the basics I added some tension by introducing singular vehicles, monsters, psykers etc. The PCs also got some reinforcements. Typically a tactical squad or similar.

If I was to do something similar today I would probably probably do guard vs tyranids or space marines vs necrons. Maybe orks for more fun?

7TV is fun, also look at the Doctor Who Adventure Game from Crooked Dice.

For a free set of rules you can use with anything, all at the same time, try War In Hell from Jim Wallman.

http://www.jimwallman.org.uk/wargame/war%20in%20hell.pdf

Fanticide, maybe?

Endless: Fantasy Tactics, while certainly not all that -silly-, is a more relaxed, very different, and enjoyable gaming experience and certainly more simple than 40k in my opinion!

Iv'e found that Firestorm armada is pretty easy to pick up (the basics anyway)

For 28mm stuff take a look at Ronin (feudal Japan, Samurai etc.) or Relics (weird as hell minis but nice mechanics. Also hits are scored by rolling doubles instead of hitting a target number which can make for some ridiculous rounds of shooting )

I'd say X-Wing.

It seems like you're wanting to stick to GW products and favoring them over better competitors, so I'm kind of at a loss on what to recommend since the GW ones you are gravitating towards aren't that 'silly' nor 'simple' at all(Mordheim/Necromunda). The only GW one I would recommend is Bloodbowl, the rest is not worth it compared to competitors.

My recommendations:
X-wing
Super Dungeon Explore
Zombicide
Bloodbowl

If you're into 40k, but don't want to mess with kill team, give "In The Emperor's Name" a try. It's basically warband skirmish gaming in the 40k universe, but with a much more streamlined rules set that is not at all like 40k, but manages to capture the same spirit. It has full army lists for all 40k factions and a nice scenario generator. Unfortunately the third edition is kind of an unfinished mess, but the second edition functions quite well. You can download it for free here:
http://thegamesshed.wordpress.com/2011/07/02/in-the-emperors-name/

Lest you are wary about a fan-made ruleset, the mechanics are so solid that they were turned into a commercial steampunk game called "In Her Magesty's Name" that is published by Osprey.

However my top choice for a fun and easy miniatures game...

 fishy bob wrote:

weeble1000 wrote:
Song of Blades and Heroes is simple and flexible

I'll vouch for this. While the ruleset itself is not "silly" as such, you're free to use any models that you want, so you can go way silly in that department.

Thirded.
Song of Blades an Heroes is probably the easiest-to-learn commercial wargaming ruleset. We've had no trouble teaching it to people at conventions, even those with little gaming experience. However, it's very engaging and the activation mechanic (which is really the core of the game) makes every move a strategic choice. If you already have a GW miniatures collection or just want to pick up some cheap used figures and get playing that's fine as the game comes with stats for basic wargames miniatures and gives you the option to stat up any creature or character you want from any manufacturer. This makes it very easy for newbies to get involved in miniatures gaming using whatever miniatures capture their imagination most.

It can be as silly or as serious as you want, though it seems to lean a bit toward the less-than-serious swords and sorcery feel of old school fantasy. The core rules have been adapted to other genres as well.
-If you're into Arthruan lore, there's "Song of Arthur and Merlin"
-If you like fuzzy critters (redwall, narnia, etc) there's "Song of the Splintered lands"
-If you like vVctorian era British-Colonial teddy bears, there's "Song of Fur and Buttons". I kid you not.
-If you like the basic Song of Blades and Heroes, but want to add to it, there's expansions for dungeon crawls, long campains, etc.

Did I mention that each of these books is only and $8 PDF or $15 book?
http://www.ganeshagames.net/

SBH is the game our club formed around (though we now play a variety of games) 4 years ago and it's the one we keep coming back too. We're about to start our summer campaign, but you can see last summer's campaign and links to all our batreps here:
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/p/dark-days-have-come-to-lands-of-qaarra.html

Any of the tabletop games by Ganesha Games , solid but simple game mechanics covering everything from Fantasy (Songs of Blades and Heroes), Modern (Flying Lead), to SciFi (Mutants and Death Ray Guns), as well as everything inbetween.
For the more tounge in cheek options, I recommend:
Mutants and Death Ray Guns - Post Apocalyptic Sci Fi with mutant plants, animals, and killer robots
Ghost Rangers - Ghost Busting rules for Fear and Faith, their horror game, and when I say horror I mean in it in the BTVS sense.
Mighty Monsters - Giant Monsters and Robots, where Godzilla verses Voltron is a thing you could do

Zombicide - The Zombie Apocalypse, if it was an action movie. None of the boring starving to death and fighting more humans than zombies for food and shelter and all of the glorious chainsaw mutilation.

I've recently gotten into the rules by Ganesha Games, the most well known of which is Song of Blades and Heroes. A Fantasy Skirmish that uses any miniatures you already own and only has 2 sats per figure.

They do all sorts of other rules for different settings as well using the same core rules. The PDF's are also really cheap.

I am surprised that noone mentioned DUST Warfare. Bust open some boxes, put the models on the table and play. The game plays quickly and is streamlined. The rules are fairly simple, but may be slightly more complex than what you are looking for.

As was mentioned above, Dreadball has simple rules. I would assume that Mars Attacks will also have simple rules.