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Giant nerfs to FMC + everything scores + improvements to biomancy=Great Unclean One is the new black.

If they get iron arm it's always 3str/toughness for t10. Biomancy FNP is 4+. Either one is fatastic on a GUO.

It's also good luck and pleases papa Nurgle if you convert your GUO to look like Pizza the Hut.

The only real loss is the loss of IWND from Biomancy (the loss of which also makes the flavor text for Endurance a bit odd as it describes it as a healing power but whatever), and Warp Speed becomes oddly humorous as you envision the Great Unclean One moving around like he's Faora-Ul or Neo as he now has a very respectable initiative and attack value.

Of course you can get IWND with some luck from the reward table anyway.

It's nice to see that GW thinks Biomancy, Telekinesis, and Telepathy are overpowered on Tyranids but lets Daemons have all that and a bag of chips.

But to power the GUO you need more pyskers to get enough dice to roll.

 Shandara wrote:
But to power the GUO you need more pyskers to get enough dice to roll.

Daemons have psykers in abundance.

Even if using Tzeentchilist horrors to power up Nurglite Great Unclean ones is fluff heresy.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Giant nerfs to FMC[...]

Did I miss something?

 Hansisaf wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Giant nerfs to FMC[...]

Did I miss something?

If you go from swoop to glide you stand there picking your nose for a turn, you only get one AP2 vector strike hit against ground targets, and smash reduces your attack profile to one instead of halving it.

 Hansisaf wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Giant nerfs to FMC[...]

Did I miss something?

The big one is a FMC can't charge if it was swooping on the previous turn unless it was grounded by shooting. It has to exit swooping and twiddle it's thumbs for a turn while being shot at before it can charge.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:
The only real loss is the loss of IWND from Biomancy (the loss of which also makes the flavor text for Endurance a bit odd as it describes it as a healing power but whatever), and Warp Speed becomes oddly humorous as you envision the Great Unclean One moving around like he's Faora-Ul or Neo as he now has a very respectable initiative and attack value.

Of course you can get IWND with some luck from the reward table anyway.

It's nice to see that GW thinks Biomancy, Telekinesis, and Telepathy are overpowered on Tyranids but lets Daemons have all that and a bag of chips.

The loss of IWND in exhange for Eternal Warrior and FNP going from 5+ to 4+ is a pretty even trade imo.

Life leech, enfeeble, and warp speed are also good powers on a GUO. 2 out of 3 6 powers are beefcake and 3 of the remaining 4 are good. There is only 1 tripe power.

My only issue is that perils will be a real death sentence. If he gets knocked down a level thanks to bad luck. Papa nurgles favourite offspring is going to have a bad time.

I also am going to laugh so hard at the poor sod with a level 1 sorcerer or libby in their list that rolls a 2 on their peril table and winds up being demoted to a sargeant with a power weapon lol.

 ionusx wrote:
My only issue is that perils will be a real death sentence. If he gets knocked down a level thanks to bad luck. Papa nurgles favourite offspring is going to have a bad time.

I also am going to laugh so hard at the poor sod with a level 1 sorcerer or libby in their list that rolls a 2 on their peril table and winds up being demoted to a sargeant with a power weapon lol.

Every biomancy power is lvl1 except the lvl2 powers of endurance and hemorrhoids so the GUO avoids all of the high risk lvl3 powers.

 schadenfreude wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
My only issue is that perils will be a real death sentence. If he gets knocked down a level thanks to bad luck. Papa nurgles favourite offspring is going to have a bad time.

I also am going to laugh so hard at the poor sod with a level 1 sorcerer or libby in their list that rolls a 2 on their peril table and winds up being demoted to a sargeant with a power weapon lol.

Every biomancy power is lvl1 except the lvl2 powers of endurance and hemorrhoids so the GUO avoids all of the high risk lvl3 powers.

I have no idea why haemorrage is ML2 now, it sucked before and it sucks harder now.

 Kain wrote:

 Hansisaf wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Giant nerfs to FMC[...]

Did I miss something?

If you go from swoop to glide you stand there picking your nose for a turn, you only get one AP2 vector strike hit against ground targets, and smash reduces your attack profile to one instead of halving it.

BUT... BUT... IF SMASH IS ONE ATTACK, FATEWEAVER IS RUI- nevermind.

FMCs are still amazing. Single grounding check and no improvement to snap shots.
As far as smash it just means you'll have to rely on you're easily acquired S7-8 instead which is hardly weak.

Sky isn't falling.

Tzeentch FMC lists don't care. Smash isn't a problem when you have the stick of change for +2 strength, they have a ton of psychic shooting, and how often did you really want them in assault anyway? Most people just buzzed around and killed off troops and then contested crap on turn 5 anyway. Assault was more of a trick up your sleeve, and Fateweaver is smiling ear to ear (twice?) at having to only take one, potentially re-rollable depending on where you use that die, grounding test per turn. If you ever purposefully land space chicken on the ground you might be doing it wrong.

Be'Lakor will also be pretty useful with automatic access to invisibility, so you can still have a pseudo-flying FMC with invisibility while gliding so he can assault the crap out of stuff if that's your kind of thing. Bloodthirsters being hit on 6's while still moving 12" per turn and assaulting? Yes pease.

GUO does look hilarious with iron arm, but I am not a fan of his epic slowness.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Hansisaf wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Giant nerfs to FMC[...]

Did I miss something?

If you go from swoop to glide you stand there picking your nose for a turn, you only get one AP2 vector strike hit against ground targets, and smash reduces your attack profile to one instead of halving it.

BUT... BUT... IF SMASH IS ONE ATTACK, FATEWEAVER IS RUI- nevermind.

Melee TMCs without crushing claws are however ruined, but I've been expecting GW to screw my favorite army over again.

I don't think the psyker powers are going to be all that good. They probably took out the D3 in things like Iron arm because they are going to be unreliable to cast now. Sure you can draw extra dice from other psykers but now those psykers are left with squat. It'll be fine if you only have one or two psykers, the extra D6 will help them get their casts through. If you're planning on taking a ton of psykers, expect about half of them to be used up bolstering others' dice.

As for FMCs, they are much harder to ground now but spend a turn on the ground before they can charge. I don't know if I'd call it a major nerf but it will definitely change how people use them.

As for GUO, I play DE way too much to want to play with a pile of high toughness wounds and mediocre to poor save.

Getting warp speed will be nice.

@jubb due to daemon of nurgle the GUO can easily get a really strong cover save and with new biomancy powers is gonna be uber hard to kill.

I think people are really overestimating psychic powers. They are WAY less reliable. It's not even really comparable anymore. To get off invisibility you are going to need to throw 6 dice at it to have still less of a chance as you had before. That means you'll need Be'Lakor's + 3 to have a decent chance of invisibility. Plus psychic powers are cast after movement so if you land a FMC with plans to throw invisibility on him and it fails with him out in the open you're screwed.

I dunno, Khorne Daemons are looking pretty mint now that smash is nerfed and other Greater/Princes access to easy AP2 is largely gone

Easy AP2? They all still have Smash, don't they?

Yeah but one attack instead of half their attacks.

Shandara wrote:Easy AP2? They all still have Smash, don't they?

Dakkamite wrote:Yeah but one attack instead of half their attacks.

Is Smash still giving a passive AP2 or is that gone now?

Smash still gives AP2 at all times.

Yeah, too bad about the Balesword flying around smashing things

 Kain wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Hansisaf wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Giant nerfs to FMC[...]

Did I miss something?

If you go from swoop to glide you stand there picking your nose for a turn, you only get one AP2 vector strike hit against ground targets, and smash reduces your attack profile to one instead of halving it.

BUT... BUT... IF SMASH IS ONE ATTACK, FATEWEAVER IS RUI- nevermind.

Melee TMCs without crushing claws are however ruined, but I've been expecting GW to screw my favorite army over again.

Good thing all of my Fexes have Crushing Claws, just because I like the model. FLUFF WINS AGAIN!

I think Bloodthirsters are completely unusable now due to relying on getting into combat unfortunately. Lords of Change are semi-nerfed due to being gunboats now and wasting their amazing combat ability. Balesword nurgle princes are done.

It seems Fateweaver is really the only Greater Daemon who is still really good. He's way way harder to ground and there will be less S10 running around to instagib him. Plus giving your army 4 warp charge would be helpful, and his reroll could be easily used to help make a key power go off, as it's too easy to position him so that there's no chance of him getting assaulted.
Be'Lakor should be an auto take for invisibility.

Yea GUO is about the same as before though. I doubt well see BT/GUO in anything but friendly games. Hes my shelf guard anyways (keeps my terminators company)

Yeah unfortunately a GUO can have every buff in the world but only being able to move 6" a turn with no run makes him never actually a real threat.

It does suck that Bloodthirsters are no longer "just okay" like before. They are really actually useless.

Maybe not totally useless. They are scoring now. The guo can be a solid objective taker/contester if you can deepstrike near an opponents backfield or something.

A buff that hasn't been mentioned, is being able to cast powers on the turn he enters play via deep strike.

Previously, you couldn't cast anything because powers were manifested before movement. Now, he can drop in and get Iron Arm & Endurance off, to mitigate the heap of shooting he's going to eat. THAT is a really big buff to him.

 Kain wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Hansisaf wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Giant nerfs to FMC[...]

Did I miss something?

If you go from swoop to glide you stand there picking your nose for a turn, you only get one AP2 vector strike hit against ground targets, and smash reduces your attack profile to one instead of halving it.

BUT... BUT... IF SMASH IS ONE ATTACK, FATEWEAVER IS RUI- nevermind.

Melee TMCs without crushing claws are however ruined, but I've been expecting GW to screw my favorite army over again.

Well, I wouldn't say that until I saw the book personally.