Necrons in 7th

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**wuestenfux**

Wraithwing is just as strong in this edition as it was in last edition. As a matter of fact, it may have become slightly even better in this edition due to the shift in meta.

One of the weaknesses of wraithwing was that it was vulnerable to small-arms volume-of-fire. That was the man reason why you needed Destroyer Lords in the unit. However, in 7th, the meta has shifted to that of mech. As a result, players have shifted their lists as well more towards anti-tank load-outs rather than massed anti-infantry. Now some armies - like Tau and Eldar - can still handle massed wraiths with their TAC builds, but a lot of the armies aren't as prepared as they gear up their armies to better able to deal with wave serpents and other vehicles. To wraiths, quantity of shots is more important in dealing with them than quality. And currently, the trend is to go for more quality of shots in order to deal with tanks than quantity.

Seconded.
However, Eldar and Tau are still strong opponents for a Wraithwing.
Wraiths usually cripple against these armies.

**NecronLord3**

And when the meta in your area( or major tournaments) is heavy on tau/Eldar builds, Wraithwing loses effectivnes sets, which is exactly what I said.

**ShadarLogoth**

skoffs wrote:
Would 2 bare bones TBs not work for those purposes? (so long as you're clever with your maneuvering and manage to keep one hidden out of line of sight for RP just in case)

Oh yeah, you could definitely get away with 2.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

NecronLord3 wrote:
And when the meta in your area( or major tournaments) is heavy on tau/Eldar builds, Wraithwing loses effectivnes sets, which is exactly what I said.

Yep, our best answer to Tau/Eldar is heavy AV 13 IMHO. Their S7/6 spam just bounces right off those hulls.

**wuestenfux**

ShadarLogoth wrote:
skoffs wrote:
Would 2 bare bones TBs not work for those purposes? (so long as you're clever with your maneuvering and manage to keep one hidden out of line of sight for RP just in case)

Oh yeah, you could definitely get away with 2.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

NecronLord3 wrote:
And when the meta in your area( or major tournaments) is heavy on tau/Eldar builds, Wraithwing loses effectivnes sets, which is exactly what I said.

Yep, our best answer to Tau/Eldar is heavy AV 13 IMHO. Their S7/6 spam just bounces right off those hulls.

Well, the best answer to Tau and Eldar is prob/ably a mix between AV13 and the DLord/Wraiths combo.
The AV13 could move through the center while the Wraiths could approach along a flank.
This would leave the enemy to make decisions.

**necron99**

Yeah, I'd have to disagree with the av13 spam being the answer. Unless you have really heavy spam. In my club we have a guy who runs long strike in a hammerhead and he just sits back and pops vehicles all day long. It's sad. And he runs broadsides with rail guns which is even sadder for me. I've also had a unit of wariths (5 of them no less) die to overwatch. I'm actually toying with the idea of allying with AM so I can get my hands on three wyverns....

**wuestenfux**

necron99 wrote:
Yeah, I'd have to disagree with the av13 spam being the answer. Unless you have really heavy spam. In my club we have a guy who runs long strike in a hammerhead and he just sits back and pops vehicles all day long. It's sad. And he runs broadsides with rail guns which is even sadder for me. I've also had a unit of wariths (5 of them no less) die to overwatch. I'm actually toying with the idea of allying with AM so I can get my hands on three wyverns....

How about Necron flyers to eliminate the enemy tanks and heavy infantry?

**skoffs**

wuestenfux wrote:
necron99 wrote:
Yeah, I'd have to disagree with the av13 spam being the answer. Unless you have really heavy spam. In my club we have a guy who runs long strike in a hammerhead and he just sits back and pops vehicles all day long. It's sad. And he runs broadsides with rail guns which is even sadder for me. I've also had a unit of wariths (5 of them no less) die to overwatch. I'm actually toying with the idea of allying with AM so I can get my hands on three wyverns....

How about Necron flyers to eliminate the enemy tanks and heavy infantry?

Perhaps a Storm-Court (2x Storm-teks + 1x Veil-tek) to take out the problem tank straight away on the first turn, and an additional tank every following turn?

**Galorian**

Sentrystar is where it's at!

**wuestenfux**

skoffs wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:
necron99 wrote:
Yeah, I'd have to disagree with the av13 spam being the answer. Unless you have really heavy spam. In my club we have a guy who runs long strike in a hammerhead and he just sits back and pops vehicles all day long. It's sad. And he runs broadsides with rail guns which is even sadder for me. I've also had a unit of wariths (5 of them no less) die to overwatch. I'm actually toying with the idea of allying with AM so I can get my hands on three wyverns....

How about Necron flyers to eliminate the enemy tanks and heavy infantry?

Perhaps a Storm-Court (2x Storm-teks + 1x Veil-tek) to take out the problem tank straight away on the first turn, and an additional tank every following turn?

How about the survivability of the Storm-Court in the presence of a Tau or Eldar force?

**NecronLord3**

Planning on a Stompa vs. Transcendent C'tan New Ork vs. Necron battle. Anyone with suggestions? I'm thinking flyer support since Orks don't seem to have a lot of answers for those or AV13 wall because I want Zandrehk on the ground to give adaptive tactics to my Trans. C'tan.

**skoffs**

wuestenfux wrote:
skoffs wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:
necron99 wrote:
Yeah, I'd have to disagree with the av13 spam being the answer. Unless you have really heavy spam. In my club we have a guy who runs long strike in a hammerhead and he just sits back and pops vehicles all day long. It's sad. And he runs broadsides with rail guns which is even sadder for me. I've also had a unit of wariths (5 of them no less) die to overwatch. I'm actually toying with the idea of allying with AM so I can get my hands on three wyverns....

How about Necron flyers to eliminate the enemy tanks and heavy infantry?

Perhaps a Storm-Court (2x Storm-teks + 1x Veil-tek) to take out the problem tank straight away on the first turn, and an additional tank every following turn?

How about the survivability of the Storm-Court in the presence of a Tau or Eldar force?

Oh, after your opponent sees what they do to his best vehicle, they're unlikely to survive the following round (but they're only 110 points, and you'll have first blood by then, so no biggie).
Though, if you can position them so that the vehicle they wreck blocks line of sight to the rest of his army, hey hey! Time to do it again!

**luke1705**

Something that I've been toying around with is min-sized warrior squads inside of a Ghost Ark and a storm tek in there as well. You're going to average just under 3 hp from the tek alone, and another one from the rapid-firing warriors, plus an additional one from each flayer array if the ark didn't have to jink. That's a pretty nasty output of hull-point destruction for 205 points and a whole bunch of OS. Plus, although they are low-target priority typically, I can imagine it giving your opponent fits - do they shoot at the wraiths? The barge lord? The barges? The flyers? The impending hull point doom? Not a lot of good answers.

**skoffs**

Typically people spend the extra 10 points to stick a Destruct-tek in there with the Warriors. It's not going to strip as many hull points, but the extra range and high strength/low AP tends to be worth it.

**Warmonger2757**

ShadarLogoth wrote:
skoffs wrote:
Would 2 bare bones TBs not work for those purposes? (so long as you're clever with your maneuvering and manage to keep one hidden out of line of sight for RP just in case)

Oh yeah, you could definitely get away with 2.

You're missing the value of Solo TBs if you're really concerned with them surviving. If you are going to use them for late game objective grabs, keep them in reserves as long as possible. If you are going to use them for Maelstrom objective grabs, they aren't going to survive any sort of sustained fire regardless of how many you have. The idea is to keep the unit small and out of sight. The model itself doesn't lend itself to packing in close to other TBs. When you place your objectives, put the objective close to something that your TBs can use to LOS your opponent. Once you start adding a second or third TB, you lose the efficiency as those other models will get shot up pretty quick.

**ShadarLogoth**

You're missing the value of Solo TBs if you're really concerned with them surviving. If you are going to use them for late game objective grabs, keep them in reserves as long as possible. If you are going to use them for Maelstrom objective grabs, they aren't going to survive any sort of sustained fire regardless of how many you have. The idea is to keep the unit small and out of sight. The model itself doesn't lend itself to packing in close to other TBs. When you place your objectives, put the objective close to something that your TBs can use to LOS your opponent. Once you start adding a second or third TB, you lose the efficiency as those other models will get shot up pretty quick.

Oh yeah, I totally get using them that way. If you add models, though, you are doing so specifically because you want them to attract enough attention to be shot at. T5 4+ Jink and RP will eat bullets reasonably well, and if you always keep one of the units hidden you will find the opponent wasting a lot of firepower trying to whittle them down. I used them this way in 5th, although with the Stealth upgrade and generally in conjunction with SPs and stuff. If you have a list with SPs built in, you could keep them really cheap for 5. Now, if the opponent does ignore them, they provide a decent dose of firepower, and will be much harder to take down if they do decide to turbo over to an objective.

**skoffs**

Alright, so Night fight only confers Stealth (+1 to all cover saves) now.
Seeing as how all skimmers have a 4+ cover from Jink, how requisite would Solar Pulse(s) be in AV13 Wall lists?
Two turns of 3+ saves for everything in the army sounds pretty nice... unless you're playing against ignores-cover weapons.

**Warmonger2757**

ShadarLogoth wrote:
You're missing the value of Solo TBs if you're really concerned with them surviving. If you are going to use them for late game objective grabs, keep them in reserves as long as possible. If you are going to use them for Maelstrom objective grabs, they aren't going to survive any sort of sustained fire regardless of how many you have. The idea is to keep the unit small and out of sight. The model itself doesn't lend itself to packing in close to other TBs. When you place your objectives, put the objective close to something that your TBs can use to LOS your opponent. Once you start adding a second or third TB, you lose the efficiency as those other models will get shot up pretty quick.

Oh yeah, I totally get using them that way. If you add models, though, you are doing so specifically because you want them to attract enough attention to be shot at. T5 4+ Jink and RP will eat bullets reasonably well, and if you always keep one of the units hidden you will find the opponent wasting a lot of firepower trying to whittle them down. I used them this way in 5th, although with the Stealth upgrade and generally in conjunction with SPs and stuff. If you have a list with SPs built in, you could keep them really cheap for 5. Now, if the opponent does ignore them, they provide a decent dose of firepower, and will be much harder to take down if they do decide to turbo over to an objective.

In sixth, I would take units of 5 with particle beamers. All those strength 6 templates with accumulate so many hits on my opponents, I could wipe out units of infantry and lightly armored vehicles. Now with the current Jink save, I'm not sure I would take them without Armor Vanes since I would avoid jinking if I didn't have to.

It would be awesome if Necron Lords had the option to take tomb blades. Too bad Necrons don't like to accessorize.

**krodarklorr**

Guys, Necrons are ridiculous now. The Chariot is the only way to go, pretty much. Especially in the competitive scene. And my favorite lists include a lot of AV 13 vehicles, which is a lot harder to deal with now. So, for that, I thank 7th edition.

**luke1705**

I am trying out a combination of the AV 13 wall and wraith wing. Although I like the Barge Lord, he is SO EXPENSIVE. Taking a Destroyer Lord is, at least, 95 points cheaper, and more likely 125 points cheaper. Maybe I'm in the minority running 2+ wraith squads, but giving them a 2+ at the front to tank plus that war scythe hitting from the back, not to mention preferred enemy: everything makes keeping D Lord(s) in my list pretty attractive. I think I'll pick up another barge to try a Barge Lord at 1850 but I don't know if I can justify it at points values lower than that.

**Anpu-adom**

In my TAC, I think that I'll still have 2 wraiths and 1 scarabs in my FA slots.
I'd run 1 barge lord and 1 destroyer lord, but I only have 2 barges right now (need both as annibarges) and only the single destroyer Lord.
I feel that Ghost Arks and Night Scythes are about balanced... 2 of each with warriors has been my TAC loadout since the middle of 6th, and I don't see much of a reason to change yet. If mech takes over in my area, then I'll probably counter-meta a bit...

**ShadarLogoth**

skoffs wrote:
Alright, so Night fight only confers Stealth (+1 to all cover saves) now.
Seeing as how all skimmers have a 4+ cover from Jink, how requisite would Solar Pulse(s) be in AV13 Wall lists?
Two turns of 3+ saves for everything in the army sounds pretty nice... unless you're playing against ignores-cover weapons.

^^ This.

I've even played around with three in a 2nd detachment. It's pretty glorious.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
4 CCBs stock (WS), with 4 GAs load with 5xWarriors a Lancetek and a Pulsetek is 1840. Pretty strait forward list, and if they don't have ignores cover with high enough S to matter against AV 13 they are basically DOA.

**wuestenfux**

luke1705 wrote:
I am trying out a combination of the AV 13 wall and wraith wing. Although I like the Barge Lord, he is SO EXPENSIVE. Taking a Destroyer Lord is, at least, 95 points cheaper, and more likely 125 points cheaper. Maybe I'm in the minority running 2+ wraith squads, but giving them a 2+ at the front to tank plus that war scythe hitting from the back, not to mention preferred enemy: everything makes keeping D Lord(s) in my list pretty attractive. I think I'll pick up another barge to try a Barge Lord at 1850 but I don't know if I can justify it at points values lower than that.

Well, I'm not running the barge Lord - too expensive for my liking.
I still prefer DLord, Wraiths, Night Scythes, and Annihilation Barges as in the 6th ed.

**col_impact**

wuestenfux wrote:
luke1705 wrote:
I am trying out a combination of the AV 13 wall and wraith wing. Although I like the Barge Lord, he is SO EXPENSIVE. Taking a Destroyer Lord is, at least, 95 points cheaper, and more likely 125 points cheaper. Maybe I'm in the minority running 2+ wraith squads, but giving them a 2+ at the front to tank plus that war scythe hitting from the back, not to mention preferred enemy: everything makes keeping D Lord(s) in my list pretty attractive. I think I'll pick up another barge to try a Barge Lord at 1850 but I don't know if I can justify it at points values lower than that.

Well, I'm not running the barge Lord - too expensive for my liking.
I still prefer DLord, Wraiths, Night Scythes, and Annihilation Barges as in the 6th ed.

The bargeLord is the way to go unless or until the meta starts running fast armourbane CC or lots of good CC MCs with smash (e.g. Wraithknights). A good tactically flexible compromise is 1 bargeLord and 1 D Lord with 6 wraiths so you can try to force favorable matchups. A 1x bargeLord/1x D Lord mix is preferred over 2x D Lord since you will want to enable at least one Royal Court to unlock StormTeks which are really, really good in 7th ed. I like to run 4 x StormTek at least attached to my N Scythe cavalry troops to be able to delete opponent's dedicated transports.

So the viable HQ choices seem to be . . .

A) 2x bargeLord (maximum AV 13 pressure but watch out for fast armourbane CC)
B) 1x bargeLord and 1 D Lord (for shore up your weaknesses type list)
C) 1x bargeLord + 1 Nemesor Zandrekh + 1 Vargard Obyron (for an uber tactics list)
D) Vargard Obyron + Phaeron Overlord (for Sentry Pylon Star)

**skoffs**

Oh god, please don't run D) unless you're playing in a super competitive situation. Sentry-Star is not fun.

**Sigvatr**

Yeah, don't run D). It's super nasty and unfun to play against.

**Galorian**

Seems nobody likes the D around here!

**skoffs**

Hey man, if you like taking the D, that's your own business,
But don't be waving your D in everyone's faces and expect us to be happy about it.
(trust me, getting f'd by the D is not a pleasant experience... unless you're into that)

**Galorian**

skoffs wrote:
Hey man, if you like taking the D, that's your own business,
But don't be waving your D in everyone's faces and expect us to be happy about it.
(trust me, getting f'd by the D is not a pleasant experience... unless you're into that)

I never said I liked the D- in fact I even take my Transcended C'tan without the D!

Don't you be making it out as if I'm putting the D where it doesn't belong!

**skoffs**

Some Trans have D's, some Trans don't.
It's their choice, I won't judge them.

Regardless, you should never give the D to anyone who doesn't consent to it.

**ShadarLogoth**

skoffs wrote:
Hey man, if you like taking the D, that's your own business,
But don't be waving your D in everyone's faces and expect us to be happy about it.
(trust me, getting f'd by the D is not a pleasant experience... unless you're into that)

Exalted. Well done skoffs.