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 IHateNids wrote:
Do people think that the monolith is worth it now under 7th edition rules?

No

Ghost arks cant remove Marines by the squadload.

I was just debating on whether or not to switch out my list for a small tournament upcoming.

 IHateNids wrote:
Ghost arks cant remove Marines by the squadload.

I was just debating on whether or not to switch out my list for a small tournament upcoming.

When its full of warriors it totally can.

The main thing is that nothing about the monolith actually changed. It wasn't good before and since nothing changed why would it be good now.

We'll it does score. The main problems are:

200pts (when 2 A. Barges cost 180)
No jink
No deep strike protection
If reserved it had to deep strike and the huge foot print makes it likely to mishap if it scatters
Relatively low range compared to comparable vehicles of similar point cost available from other factions
Particle a Whip is AP3, so deep striking units that seriously threaten Monoliths with 2+ Armour saves or any kind of cover are not threatened by the Monolith.
Variable range of the vacuum portal also makes it an unreliable weapon(every time I tried to use it I rolled short and then the enemy was in serious threat range to take down my Monolith.
Single ap1-2 shot can destroy it.

Kholzerino wrote:
Hey gang. Sorry I haven't posted that big game battle report. Have worked on it and will get it up soon.

MEANTIME - Going to a tournament in a couple of weeks. They allow Unbound, LoW up to 800pts and are using modified Maelstrom missions.

Been toying with fun unbound lists (tranny CTanny plus dlord/wraithwing plus 2CCBs) and just wondering if anyone had any smart ideas. I don't own 20 annihilation barges. Sadface.

Tranny Ctan and 3 Knights in Adamantine Lance Formation

I don't have any Knights, but that does sounds pretty boss.. I'm thinking either:

Transcendent C'Tan (transliminal slide, cosmic fire, seismic assault)
4 x CCB Overlords (Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Semp Weave, Mind Shackle Scarabs and one with Res Orb)

Or

4 x CCB Overlords (Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Semp Weave, Mind Shackle Scarabs and one with Res Orb)
2 x Destroyer Lord (Semp Weave, MSS, Scythe)
6 x Wraiths
6 x Wraiths
Tomb Blade
Tomb Blade
Tomb Blade

Tranny Ctan w Slide, Assault, and Withering. For sure keep Assault and Withering. Swap out Slide for something cheaper to reduce points.

Cron Air with StormTek Warrior Squads and D and D Squads. These kill enemy LOW and troops. NS are the most survivable transport when LOW are around.

Some small scarab units to hide in LOS blocking terrain. These hide to keep you from being tabled. These could alternatively be Tomb Blades if the mission is maelstrom.

Zandrekh with small warrior squad to hide in LOS blocking terrain to unlock court, buff Ctan (usually tankhunter or hit and run), and debuff opponent stuff. Alternatively, Zandrekh could be a CCB bargelord (with MSS, PS, SW, and WS at least) to use for add'l vehicle popping power. Watch out tho that the damage output of the CCB bargelord isnt that great vs blobs so avoid getting tarpitted.

ADL with comms merits consideration. ADL is a great place to hide scarabs out of sight.


Keep in mind . . .

The only things that can efficiently kill a T C'tan to my knowledge are D weapons, grav guns, MSS, and Deathmarks.

Stormteks are outrageously awesome against most LOW (most of them are vehicles) so spam them and win.

40 Guardians managed to kill my C'tan

Slide seems to be the best option, since it gives a lot of additional movement that you can use to get to the opponent and it deals a lot of damage.
But since the LoW can have a maximum of 800 points, I would change the set-up. You need to 'downgrade' one of the three options.
Not sure if you should take Seismic Shockwave or Cosmic Fire (instead of Withering).

Zhandrekh is really awesome with a C'tan, with Tank Hunter you will probably "one-shot" any SHV and with Hit&Run you don't have to 'fear' being locked in combat.
But contrary to what Col says, he cannot be a CCB-Lord with 7th edition

I would also take Tomb Blades over Scarabs, because they are always better at contesting/capturing objectives.
And if that one VP is important, you'll be happy you took the Tomb Blades.
Spare points can always be used on Shadowloom for that 3+ Jink.

Kangodo wrote:


But contrary to what Col says, he cannot be a CCB-Lord with 7th edition

I meant that you could switch out Zandrekh for a bargeLord not that you could put Zandrekh into a barge.

Slide is nifty for sure, but its not better than withering. You can't slide and go into cc in the same turn iirc and withering is key for wiping troops.

You could go slide + withering X 2 and get it under 800 points.

But I like Seismic Assault a lot, since it can do AA and anti-invis in a pinch. So I would keep withering and seismic assault (which are the two best by far) and take one of the <60 point options.

I've played the tranny three times and every time he's done more damage by blowing up than by shooting or assaulting. I think I marginally prefer Cosmic fire + transliminal slide to Wave + seismic assault.

Yes. Hadn't thought about how useful Stormteks would be vs Knights army.

Wish in unbound I could take Roysl courts without warriors in n scythes (225 points for 5 stormteks in a scythe would be... Amazing... 175 for three would be sufficient)

 NecronLord3 wrote:
I played a tournament and got #5 on personal for my chariot every game! It did take a couple CAD rerolls, but pulling off FNP on the chariot is amazing! 2+/3++/5+(4+RP)

That's called cheating you know.
FNP saves wounds, not HP.

morgoth wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
I played a tournament and got #5 on personal for my chariot every game! It did take a couple CAD rerolls, but pulling off FNP on the chariot is amazing! 2+/3++/5+(4+RP)

That's called cheating you know.
FNP saves wounds, not HP.

The guy on the chariot suffers wounds you know.

 CrownAxe wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
I played a tournament and got #5 on personal for my chariot every game! It did take a couple CAD rerolls, but pulling off FNP on the chariot is amazing! 2+/3++/5+(4+RP)

That's called cheating you know.
FNP saves wounds, not HP.

The guy on the chariot suffers wounds you know.

He says FNP on the chariot, I read FNP on the chariot.
Either way, CCB are only good because there's no FAQ on chariots yet

morgoth wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
I played a tournament and got #5 on personal for my chariot every game! It did take a couple CAD rerolls, but pulling off FNP on the chariot is amazing! 2+/3++/5+(4+RP)

That's called cheating you know.
FNP saves wounds, not HP.

The guy on the chariot suffers wounds you know.

He says FNP on the chariot, I read FNP on the chariot.
Either way, CCB are only good because there's no FAQ on chariots yet

He also said it has 2+ armor which is on the rider

 CrownAxe wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
I played a tournament and got #5 on personal for my chariot every game! It did take a couple CAD rerolls, but pulling off FNP on the chariot is amazing! 2+/3++/5+(4+RP)

That's called cheating you know.
FNP saves wounds, not HP.

The guy on the chariot suffers wounds you know.

He says FNP on the chariot, I read FNP on the chariot.
Either way, CCB are only good because there's no FAQ on chariots yet

He also said it has 2+ armor which is on the rider

Yeah well, things are better when they're clear to begin with.
Sure, I could've decided to interpret it that way, but that's not what was written.
Either way, I hate Necrons and giving them FnP is crazy. I'll make sure to ID that Bargelord some more.

(Obviously I was referring to the rider, but this is Dakka, so no surprise at your comment here.)

Yeah well, things are better when they're clear to begin with.
Sure, I could've decided to interpret it that way, but that's not what was written.
Either way, I hate Necrons and giving them FnP is crazy. I'll make sure to ID that Bargelord some more.

Give it a try, and I'll just allocate the wound to the chariot. You can't ID vehicles. Oh and you can roll IWND, too.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
(Obviously I was referring to the rider, but this is Dakka, so no surprise at your comment here.)

Yeah well, things are better when they're clear to begin with.
Sure, I could've decided to interpret it that way, but that's not what was written.
Either way, I hate Necrons and giving them FnP is crazy. I'll make sure to ID that Bargelord some more.

Give it a try, and I'll just allocate the wound to the chariot. You can't ID vehicles. Oh and you can roll IWND, too.

Not if he punches you in the face at STR 10 (close combat the attacker chooses who he attacks, rider or chariot)... I know Mindshackle, blah blah... but it is a real concern with the chariot. I have seen it happen more than a few times.

Yep. Wraithknights and dreadknights aren't the easiest things for a CCB Lord to deal with in close combat. Str 10 is worrisome. Even with 3++. The ccb is amazing against wave serpents, punisher Pask etc though...

Poow wittew sheshebe lowd.

It's a bit tricky to get a lot more models in contact than just the WK, but it's possible. And tbh, the CCB lord deserves to have at least some counters in the land of ridiculously strong MC/Dreadnoughts.

The fact that it's one of the rare fears it has shows just how broken the rules are though.

I can't imagine a CCB lord jumping in front of the barge to eat the melta shots, and then hiding behind it when the marines start firing.

Kholzerino wrote:
Yep. Wraithknights and dreadknights aren't the easiest things for a CCB Lord to deal with in close combat. Str 10 is worrisome. Even with 3++. The ccb is amazing against wave serpents, punisher Pask etc though...

He said nothing about cc. Things are better when they're clear to begin with.
Sure, I could've decided to interpret it that as talking about a cc attack, but that's not what was written. Besides, Overlords with MSS love it when Dreadknights are attacking in cc.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

Kholzerino wrote:
Yep. Wraithknights and dreadknights aren't the easiest things for a CCB Lord to deal with in close combat. Str 10 is worrisome. Even with 3++. The ccb is amazing against wave serpents, punisher Pask etc though...

He said nothing about cc. Things are better when they're clear to begin with.
Sure, I could've decided to interpret it that as talking about a cc attack, but that's not what was written. Besides, Overlords with MSS love it when Dreadknights are attacking in cc.

You know what, I think we got off on the wrong foot.

I did react a bit fast, but I genuinely believed you did play the FnP on the barge itself.
After all, there have been players using the 3++ on the barge, and the chariot rules are so full of shenanigans already it's easy to see how such misunderstandings can happen.

That being said, let's just get over this and on to the real discussion, when is that codex expected ? what's left from 5th Ed ?

Blood Angels is the next one, then Necrons ?

7th made Monoliths slightly harder to destroy... not enough of a change to make them worth taking, though.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

Kholzerino wrote:
Yep. Wraithknights and dreadknights aren't the easiest things for a CCB Lord to deal with in close combat. Str 10 is worrisome. Even with 3++. The ccb is amazing against wave serpents, punisher Pask etc though...

He said nothing about cc. Things are better when they're clear to begin with.
Sure, I could've decided to interpret it that as talking about a cc attack, but that's not what was written. Besides, Overlords with MSS love it when Dreadknights are attacking in cc.

I was responding to a post that was specifically about Close Combat. The post immediately before mine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

morgoth wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

Kholzerino wrote:
Yep. Wraithknights and dreadknights aren't the easiest things for a CCB Lord to deal with in close combat. Str 10 is worrisome. Even with 3++. The ccb is amazing against wave serpents, punisher Pask etc though...

He said nothing about cc. Things are better when they're clear to begin with.
Sure, I could've decided to interpret it that as talking about a cc attack, but that's not what was written. Besides, Overlords with MSS love it when Dreadknights are attacking in cc.

You know what, I think we got off on the wrong foot.

I did react a bit fast, but I genuinely believed you did play the FnP on the barge itself.
After all, there have been players using the 3++ on the barge, and the chariot rules are so full of shenanigans already it's easy to see how such misunderstandings can happen.

That being said, let's just get over this and on to the real discussion, when is that codex expected ? what's left from 5th Ed ?

Blood Angels is the next one, then Necrons ?

Think aging CCB effectively and dealing with their hard counters (some of the most commonly taken tournament units) is a pretty good real discussion for the "Necrons in 7th" thread...

morgoth wrote:

After all, there have been players using the 3++ on the barge, and the chariot rules are so full of shenanigans already it's easy to see how such misunderstandings can happen.

Players should be applying the 3++ on the chariot profile. Not only is that RAW, but the new Space Wolf codex indicates that that is RAI.

Could a DespairTek Deepstrike in with a unit of Deathmarks?

Eldercaveman wrote:
Could a DespairTek Deepstrike in with a unit of Deathmarks?

Yup. Crypteks are Characters and are thereby just another trooper in the unit of Deathmarks.

col_impact wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
Could a DespairTek Deepstrike in with a unit of Deathmarks?

Yup. Crypteks are Characters and are thereby just another trooper in the unit of Deathmarks.

Spoiler:

Most characters are fielded in units from the start of the game, and represent squad
leaders, such as a Space Marine Veteran Sergeant. They have their own profile, but do not
have a separate entry. They are effectively just another trooper in their unit, with
enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider selection of weapons and wargear choices.

Thanks, just trying to squeeze in more Stormteks in my list, going to play around with deepstriking the D+D squad rather than using the night scythe

Eldercaveman wrote:

col_impact wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
Could a DespairTek Deepstrike in with a unit of Deathmarks?

Yup. Crypteks are Characters and are thereby just another trooper in the unit of Deathmarks.

Spoiler:

Most characters are fielded in units from the start of the game, and represent squad
leaders, such as a Space Marine Veteran Sergeant. They have their own profile, but do not
have a separate entry. They are effectively just another trooper in their unit, with
enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider selection of weapons and wargear choices.

Thanks, just trying to squeeze in more Stormteks in my list, going to play around with deepstriking the D+D squad rather than using the night scythe

If you take this approach, you need to deepstrike aggressively (really close to the target) to maximize the chances you will land within template range and rapid fire range. Keep in mind that 66% of the time you will scatter and scatter on a bell curve centered around 7". Sometimes people make visual guides to view the bell curve.

col_impact wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

col_impact wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
Could a DespairTek Deepstrike in with a unit of Deathmarks?

Yup. Crypteks are Characters and are thereby just another trooper in the unit of Deathmarks.

Spoiler:

Most characters are fielded in units from the start of the game, and represent squad
leaders, such as a Space Marine Veteran Sergeant. They have their own profile, but do not
have a separate entry. They are effectively just another trooper in their unit, with
enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider selection of weapons and wargear choices.

Thanks, just trying to squeeze in more Stormteks in my list, going to play around with deepstriking the D+D squad rather than using the night scythe

If you take this approach, you need to deepstrike aggressively (really close to the target) to maximize the chances you will land within template range and rapid fire range. Keep in mind that 66% of the time you will scatter and scatter on a bell curve centered around 7". Sometimes people make visual guides to view the bell curve.

Yeah I'm at that crossroads with my lists,where I'm down to the really awkward fine tunings. And can't quite get the balance right between my crypteks.

col_impact wrote:

morgoth wrote:

After all, there have been players using the 3++ on the barge, and the chariot rules are so full of shenanigans already it's easy to see how such misunderstandings can happen.

Players should be applying the 3++ on the chariot profile. Not only is that RAW, but the new Space Wolf codex indicates that that is RAI.

You are totally right but get the tournament FAQs to agree with you. FAQ rule #1 - what ever is in the necron players favor, rule against it.