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What race have the weakest basic infantry . I meant by their profile not weapons . I think the weakest is tau because they have the same profile as guardsman and they only have WS 2 !!! The fluff told us how well the tau is trained in the fire caste but even normal guardsman can beat them . I think the tau embraced the greater good too much so they don't fight like humans do .

I was under the impression Imperial Guard and Tau would be about equal in terms of physical strength. The lower WS is to do with the fact that while the Tau are well trained; they focus on long-range fighting, rather than close combat. They don't like it, but that doesn't mean they aren't prepared for it at all, just as not much as a guardsman might be.

They are both the weakest physically out of all the basic infantry, but that's because almost everything else (with the exception of Eldar, but they are very agile and fast) is some sort of extremely strong super-human or alien.

A single ripper, grot, or nurgling is pretty weedy.

 Kain wrote:
A single ripper, grot, or nurgling is pretty weedy.

While this is true, in the context of the game, in my opinion only grots could be classed basic infantry.

Buy yeah, grots, definately

If we take a tactical space marine, a standard chaos marine, a guardian, a kabalite, a standard battle sister, an ork boy, a fire warrior, a gaunt, a standard grey knight, a necron warrior and a guardsmen (im ignoring daemons as they dont really have a standard troop choice, but all the lesser daemons are far from being the weakest on this list anyway), then i would say that the *trophy* would have to go to the guardsmen (fire warrior may have worse stat line but they have better wargear)

Its the Fire Warrior, because if you read the OP he says to keep wargear out of the equation.

I don't mean wargear just normal profile


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey bobthero I am typing before you post

While I agree its the Guardsman, it should be pointed out that a Guardian isn't even a soldier, but rather a desperate militia member (Black Guardians are different). They still beat Guardsmen, because they are faster and have better instincts, but they are the one basic troop who's primary purpose isn't on the battlefield.

I wonder if the Eldar civilians are truly more skilled than Human soldiers at combat, or if its really just their natural precision and psker (divination) ability.

Eldar civilians are trained soldiers as well.

I would say a Tau Fire Warrior if we take their equipment out of the equation. They aren't strong melee fighters and have poor sight without their fancy visual systems.

Grots.

Tau have the weakest basic infantry. Grots aren't the basic infantry of a Waaaagh, Ork Boyz are.


Tau are human stats, but with WS and Initiative 2.

the Tau are bad at melee because the training they do receive isn't actually practical. Its more of a stylized exercise regime than actual melee training. Meaning its useless on the battlefield. Its like trying to use Tai-chi against a Green Beret. You're gonna go down like a ninny before you can blink.

Nothing says weak like Grots being food for the Boys as well as a Ork troop.

Another vote for Grots.

Fluff gives Fire Warriors a lot more credit than the tabletop does, I think. I'm not actually sure, but I believe Fire Warriors are slightly genetically enhanced and they're described as being bulky and well-muscled on average, being the warrior caste. Their skin is also a lot thicker than that of a human, I think. Ultimately, Fire Warriors have better training than a Guardsman, so I'd put them slightly above them.

In terms of physical strength, however, the Eldar are probably the weakest. While probably stronger than humans of their size and innately suited for combat, Eldar are lithe and agile. I'd say that, while capable of taking marginally more damage than a human, their physical strength is not beyond that of a Guardsman. Have you seen the biceps on those guys?

I have to agree with the above, though; grots aren't basic infantry. Here's a question, though: which is tougher, a unarmoured Space Marine or an Ork?

On average compared to the other Tau castes.

Compared to humans they're just hitting comparable strength compared to humans. Combined with poorer reflexes and overall coordination as a baseline. You need an above average fire warrior to compete with an average human physically speaking.

Sure, he might be able to bench press the same amount. but he's not going to be able to throw punches or dodge as effectively as the human. And on uneven ground he's going to lose his footing more easily.

Grots are troops choices, aren't they? How does that not make them basic infantry. While Boyz are undoubtedly more effective, the fluff I've read tends to have a high proportion of grots as well.

Why settle with Guardsmen when you can go yet another step lower to Conscripts?

 KommissarKiln wrote:
Why settle with Guardsmen when you can go yet another step lower to Conscripts?

I wouldn't count concripts as basic infantry. They would appear much less than regular guardmen, fluffwise and on the tabletop.

Ain't no more fodderish fodder then fluff Guardsmen

Chaos.

The only faction where "farmers with pitchforks" are considered acceptable infantry.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Chaos.

The only faction where "farmers with pitchforks" are considered acceptable infantry.

In-game you only see cultists with guns. But the former is very weak, with worse saves than guardsmen.

In-game they're basically worse guardsmen.

In the fluff though, Cultists range from being traitor guard/arbites/whathaveyou to being civilians who just embraced Chaos.

Chaos has no problem throwing hordes of civilians armed with butter knives and spoons at a tank regiment if it served a purpose. Even the Imperium (generally) doesn't sink that low.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
In-game they're basically worse guardsmen.

In the fluff though, Cultists range from being traitor guard/arbites/whathaveyou to being civilians who just embraced Chaos.

Chaos has no problem throwing hordes of civilians armed with butter knives and spoons at a tank regiment if it served a purpose. Even the Imperium (generally) doesn't sink that low.

Is that not 'frateris militia'?

As far as I'm aware, even the Frateris Militia has at least rudimentary combat training and equipment.

edit- I looked them up on Lexicanum, and they are indeed basically just an angry mob of civilians armed with butter knives and spoons. However, there is this line here:

In general though the clergy is wary of raising a force of Frateris Militia. Mobs of ill-trained zealous fanatics are not only hard to control but can be as much a danger to themselves as they can the enemy; they are equally liable to kill innocent civilians in their attempt to get at the foes of mankind.

Which ties into my point that the Imperium generally avoids creating a militia force such as that. Chaos by comparison doesn't really seem to care.

As for the ork boy vs marine without armor:


Fluff wise marines are easily stronger and just as tough. They are also faster and tend to be better trained at H2H.

Orks are slightly tougher only due to their tendancy to not die unless you cut their head off or explode their chest cavity.



Where the ork boy beats the marine is in sheer numbers. Since orks reproduce in an incredibly efficient manor, there is no way for marine population to keep up with them on a global scale.


Thrown on a planet with no way to get supplies or backup, 20 marines will certainly kill 10,000 ork boys before they die, but after 2-300 years the marines will eventually be killed off.

This is what happens when you let a bunch of heretics onto the forums.

The Imperial Guardsman is the epitome of strength. Armed with an unshakeable faith in the one true emperor, a Guardsman is invincible. A force to strike fear in the corrupt heart of every putrid xenos polluting the Emperor's glorious galaxy.

 TheSilo wrote:
This is what happens when you let a bunch of heretics onto the forums.

The Imperial Guardsman is the epitome of punching bag. Armed with a delusional faith in the false emperor, Guardsmen are slaughtered in billions. A force to induce laughter in the corrupt heart of every xenos overrunning the Emperor's fragile hold on the Imperium.

ftfy

Eihnlazer wrote:
Thrown on a planet with no way to get supplies or backup, 20 marines will certainly kill 10,000 ork boys before they die

I think that's overestimating the Marines just a bit...

 TheSilo wrote:
This is what happens when you let a bunch of heretics onto the forums.

The Imperial Guardsman is the epitome of strength. Armed with an unshakeable faith in the one true emperor, a Guardsman is invincible. A force to strike fear in the corrupt heart of every putrid xenos polluting the Emperor's glorious galaxy.

More like delicious appetizers to spice up the flavor of the planets they're standing on amirite fellow Tyranid players?

 Troike wrote:

Eihnlazer wrote:
Thrown on a planet with no way to get supplies or backup, 20 marines will certainly kill 10,000 ork boys before they die

I think that's overestimating the Marines just a bit...

It depends. I could totally see 20 Marines from Space Marine do that.

And Space Marine is just as canon as anything else.