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Think about it, 6th was bad, they doubled down on 7th. Now 7th being as terrible as it is, has the opportunity of becoming fantasys 8th and prompting a (supposed) real redesign. We might end up being better off if they take a real hit this edition.

I think it will still be terrible, it'll just be CCG terrible. Card games are seldom balanced for all the love of them their fans have. You find the absolutely broken combo and abuse it in the tournaments, then by the next tournament it no longer matters because those cards have been cycled out. They don't NEED to balance the game, they just need to keep people playing it.

They're not balancing the existing game, they're spoofing it up and adding frilly trimmings to it that make it more appealing to new audiences. Flyers, Psychic Phase, giant robots, the game is becoming more and more attractive. So in a way, they don't need to balance the game, they just need people to keep playing it.

I'd like to say I disapprove, but I love the new Psyker rules and the potential they have for viable sorcerer armies. I dislike the overpowered summoning/invisibility aspects, but growing pains were expected.

Don't expect a redesign. Expect more fluffy ribbons. Which I'm okay with if they give us more like the psyker phase.

As long as Jervis Jhonson is head of the rules department the rules for GW games will continue to be trash. The reject doesn't seem to understand that you can still "forge a narrative" with a solid set of rules. Jervis is also on board the money whore GW train, he has no integrity.

Until JJ is fired we shouldn't expect anything better from GW.

dresnar1 wrote:
As long as Jervis Jhonson is head of the rules department the rules for GW games will continue to be trash. The reject doesn't seem to understand that you can still "forge a narrative" with a solid set of rules. Jervis is also on board the money whore GW train, he has no integrity.

Until JJ is fired we shouldn't expect anything better from GW.

Well fantasy has not been their main product for a while, so it selling poorly, while not desired and prompting a change it does not make big waves. 40k on the other hand, were it to tank as hard as fantasy did, will make big waves. This could prompt that change.

dresnar1 wrote:
As long as Jervis Jhonson is head of the rules department the rules for GW games will continue to be trash. The reject doesn't seem to understand that you can still "forge a narrative" with a solid set of rules. Jervis is also on board the money whore GW train, he has no integrity.

Until JJ is fired we shouldn't expect anything better from GW.

Well, I guess that there is a good chance that JJ will be fired for daemonology.

I really hope somebody gets fired, but I doubt it. I'm going to lay low and not waste my money on GW products (including rulebooks) for a while and see how this all land out.

 herpguy wrote:
I really hope somebody gets fired, but I doubt it. I'm going to lay low and not waste my money on GW products (including rulebooks) for a while and see how this all land out.

Well i was going to buy it, but after reading a pirate copy i decided it was not worth the money. Some how i doubt im the only one.

What makes it that bad?

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:
What makes it that bad?

ITs 6th edition, with random objectives, random objective cards, and fantasys 6th/7th edition magic phase. They took the worst of 6th, and the worst of fantasy and bundled it together while at the same time doing nothing to address what broke 6th.

 herpguy wrote:
I really hope somebody gets fired, but I doubt it. I'm going to lay low and not waste my money on GW products (including rulebooks) for a while and see how this all land out.

We have already announced an introductory local tourney by midst of July.

Not sure if we provide restrictions on the lists.

It's pretty difficult to predict what GW will do based on any of this though. What I see as "bad" might prove extremely popular to lots of people and be a runaway success for GW.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:
What makes it that bad?

ITs 6th edition, with random objectives, random objective cards, and fantasys 6th/7th edition magic phase. They took the worst of 6th, and the worst of fantasy and bundled it together while at the same time doing nothing to address what broke 6th.

At last somebody with his eyes open.

 loki old fart wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:
What makes it that bad?

ITs 6th edition, with random objectives, random objective cards, and fantasys 6th/7th edition magic phase. They took the worst of 6th, and the worst of fantasy and bundled it together while at the same time doing nothing to address what broke 6th.

At last somebody with his eyes open.

Forgot to add, no FOC of any relevance as well.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Think about it, 6th was bad, they doubled down on 7th. Now 7th being as terrible as it is, has the opportunity of becoming fantasys 8th and prompting a (supposed) real redesign. We might end up being better off if they take a real hit this edition.

Ummm, 8th is the best balanced Fantasy edition thus far. Magic is a little wonky, but nowhere near as bad as it was in 7th(where certain factions were straight up OP with having automatic 25+ dice magic phases)

You know JJ might be an actual person. So easy to hate and revile someone on a forum. Yes his rules may not be the most effective, but you can still play the game can't you? If a discrepancy arises and you can't solve it with your opponent then he is not the only one to blame. I'm not excusing the issues, but it is very tiring to see people hate so hard and be downright awful and know nothing of the guy. He probably has a family to feed, and just just because he is the head doesn't mean he doesn't answer to someone. Hate the company policy not the people.

 Grey Templar wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Think about it, 6th was bad, they doubled down on 7th. Now 7th being as terrible as it is, has the opportunity of becoming fantasys 8th and prompting a (supposed) real redesign. We might end up being better off if they take a real hit this edition.

Ummm, 8th is the best balanced Fantasy edition thus far. Magic is a little wonky, but nowhere near as bad as it was in 7th(where certain factions were straight up OP with having automatic 25+ dice magic phases)

Regardless of what i think of 8th, reality is it has tanked, they are supposedly reviewing the system in depth for 9th which should come up shortly. 7th 40k is a terrible edition, so the foundation for it to tank is sadly already there. What i mean to say is that this potential crisis can also be an opportunity.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Think about it, 6th was bad, they doubled down on 7th. Now 7th being as terrible as it is, has the opportunity of becoming fantasys 8th and prompting a (supposed) real redesign. We might end up being better off if they take a real hit this edition.

Ummm, 8th is the best balanced Fantasy edition thus far. Magic is a little wonky, but nowhere near as bad as it was in 7th(where certain factions were straight up OP with having automatic 25+ dice magic phases)

Regardless of what i think of 8th, reality is it has tanked, they are supposedly reviewing the system in depth for 9th which should come up shortly. 7th 40k is a terrible edition, so the foundation for it to tank is sadly already there. What i mean to say is that this potential crisis can also be an opportunity.

Fantasy has tanked not because its a bad ruleset, but because GW itself is tanking and people are becoming disenchanted with their games.

And because of all the Comp tournaments going way overboard with Comping Fantasy tournaments as a kneejerk reaction to a GW ruleset and not actually considering that its not really all that bad. A little light comp is all that would be needed. Ban specific items and characters and that's it.

 Grey Templar wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Think about it, 6th was bad, they doubled down on 7th. Now 7th being as terrible as it is, has the opportunity of becoming fantasys 8th and prompting a (supposed) real redesign. We might end up being better off if they take a real hit this edition.

Ummm, 8th is the best balanced Fantasy edition thus far. Magic is a little wonky, but nowhere near as bad as it was in 7th(where certain factions were straight up OP with having automatic 25+ dice magic phases)

Regardless of what i think of 8th, reality is it has tanked, they are supposedly reviewing the system in depth for 9th which should come up shortly. 7th 40k is a terrible edition, so the foundation for it to tank is sadly already there. What i mean to say is that this potential crisis can also be an opportunity.

Fantasy has tanked not because its a bad ruleset, but because GW itself is tanking and people are becoming disenchanted with their games.

And because of all the Comp tournaments going way overboard with Comping Fantasy tournaments as a kneejerk reaction to a GW ruleset and not actually considering that its not really all that bad. A little light comp is all that would be needed. Ban specific items and characters and that's it.

The point is, that fantasy which is less important for the company tanked and it prompted a redesign. 40k which is much more important to them has the opportunity to do the same, specially after this god awful edition, which is aiming to be the second terrible edition in a row.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Think about it, 6th was bad, they doubled down on 7th. Now 7th being as terrible as it is, has the opportunity of becoming fantasys 8th and prompting a (supposed) real redesign. We might end up being better off if they take a real hit this edition.

Ummm, 8th is the best balanced Fantasy edition thus far. Magic is a little wonky, but nowhere near as bad as it was in 7th(where certain factions were straight up OP with having automatic 25+ dice magic phases)

Regardless of what i think of 8th, reality is it has tanked, they are supposedly reviewing the system in depth for 9th which should come up shortly. 7th 40k is a terrible edition, so the foundation for it to tank is sadly already there. What i mean to say is that this potential crisis can also be an opportunity.

Fantasy has tanked not because its a bad ruleset, but because GW itself is tanking and people are becoming disenchanted with their games.

And because of all the Comp tournaments going way overboard with Comping Fantasy tournaments as a kneejerk reaction to a GW ruleset and not actually considering that its not really all that bad. A little light comp is all that would be needed. Ban specific items and characters and that's it.

The point is, that fantasy which is less important for the company tanked and it prompted a redesign. 40k which is much more important to them has the opportunity to do the same, specially after this god awful edition, which is aiming to be the second terrible edition in a row.

Indeed, it appears that 40k is no longer playable.

Want a pick-up game in a store? This will become difficult since actually you want an opponent with a comparable army for a fun game. But the only guy showing up has an unbound army with him while you have a forged one.

Want to organize an RTT? What constraints would you put on the army lists? This is the problem I have as I'm organizing an RTT for the store owner in July.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Think about it, 6th was bad, they doubled down on 7th. Now 7th being as terrible as it is, has the opportunity of becoming fantasys 8th and prompting a (supposed) real redesign. We might end up being better off if they take a real hit this edition.

I can´t believe I agree with this. But I do!

I am not sure 7th is worse than 6th, but it is mostly the same (90% copy-paste) and it doesn´t solve any problem. It also pushes the limits of the game (daemonology, unbound, the magic phase), so it may actually serve as a revulsive. People will (perhaps) join forces and create their own rules (for tournaments, for other editions, for fan-made systems), and GW may go down and the game get bought by someone else OR they may react and reboot the game.

Wow I can´t wait to see 8th Edition in 2015!

 wuestenfux wrote:

Well, I guess that there is a good chance that JJ will be fired for daemonology.

Why?

I got the impression most of the GW´s Inner Circle and shareholders indulge in daemonology. Wasn´t Satan herself a high-level office-holder until Ward´s promotion?

 da001 wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Think about it, 6th was bad, they doubled down on 7th. Now 7th being as terrible as it is, has the opportunity of becoming fantasys 8th and prompting a (supposed) real redesign. We might end up being better off if they take a real hit this edition.

I can´t believe I agree with this. But I do!

I am not sure 7th is worse than 6th, but it is mostly the same (90% copy-paste) and it doesn´t solve any problem. It also pushes the limits of the game (daemonology, unbound, the magic phase), so it may actually serve as a revulsive. People will (perhaps) join forces and create their own rules (for tournaments, for other editions, for fan-made systems), and GW may go down and the game get bought by someone else OR they may react and reboot the game.

Lets not get carried away, GW aint going the way of the dinosaur just because 40k 7th tanks. But it could serve as a kick to the teeth to set them in the right direction. Because god knows nothing short of that will do it.

So all in all, the best thing that came out of 7th for me, is that i am actually looking forward to 8th.

The only way to save 40k is to get the current design team out of a job.

They are the big problem with 40k, so they must go.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Well, I guess that there is a good chance that JJ will be fired for daemonology.

Why?

I got the impression most of the GW´s Inner Circle and shareholders indulge in daemonology. Wasn´t Satan herself a high-level office-holder until Ward´s promotion?

Well, actually the share holders and their profit will decide.

xxvaderxx wrote:

The point is, that fantasy which is less important for the company tanked and it prompted a redesign. 40k which is much more important to them has the opportunity to do the same, specially after this god awful edition, which is aiming to be the second terrible edition in a row.

That is a very bold claim to make. I am curious, have you, or anyway else making this claim, played the edition yet? Our local group was very happy with it and found that games that would normally be very one-sided ended up being very close (thanks to the tactical cards). The battlefield will change and having an army capable of adapting to the changing environment (or ineptitude of High Command as part of my game turned out to be ) makes the game player better.

Honestly, at first glance, I like 7th more than 6th. There are a few small changes that make the game more interactive, with the psychic phase being a nice addition. Both myself and my opponent took very balanced lists (1k of mechanized IG vs 1k of Death Guard) and we were both interacting with each other during all parts of the game.

I would highly suggest that everyone tires 7th before writing it off as "6th but worse". There are some nice subtle changes that make the game very enjoyable.

 Happygrunt wrote:

That is a very bold claim to make. I am curious, have you, or anyway else making this claim, played the edition yet? Our local group was very happy with it and found that games that would normally be very one-sided ended up being very close (thanks to the tactical cards).

Which are randomly generated, thus you might as well could have flipped a coin and set the game even further in the opposite direction. But that is GWs usual answer to everything, "roll sixes" and now appended "or draw well".

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:

That is a very bold claim to make. I am curious, have you, or anyway else making this claim, played the edition yet? Our local group was very happy with it and found that games that would normally be very one-sided ended up being very close (thanks to the tactical cards).

Which are randomly generated, thus you might as well could have flipped a coin and set the game even further in the opposite direction. But that is GWs usual answer to everything, "roll sixes" and now appended "or draw well".

So that would be no?

 azreal13 wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:

That is a very bold claim to make. I am curious, have you, or anyway else making this claim, played the edition yet? Our local group was very happy with it and found that games that would normally be very one-sided ended up being very close (thanks to the tactical cards).

Which are randomly generated, thus you might as well could have flipped a coin and set the game even further in the opposite direction. But that is GWs usual answer to everything, "roll sixes" and now appended "or draw well".

So that would be no?

No it would not be a NO.

But since you need something on the record, here is a vid of someone starting at 1850 summoning demons up to 4k total points and getting screwed by random objective cards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryMAAP6HWfw

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:

That is a very bold claim to make. I am curious, have you, or anyway else making this claim, played the edition yet? Our local group was very happy with it and found that games that would normally be very one-sided ended up being very close (thanks to the tactical cards).

Which are randomly generated, thus you might as well could have flipped a coin and set the game even further in the opposite direction. But that is GWs usual answer to everything, "roll sixes" and now appended "or draw well".

yeah damned randomness, it's interfering with my ability to randomly roll to shoot, randomly roll to get past his armor and randomly roll to wound!

BrianDavion wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:

That is a very bold claim to make. I am curious, have you, or anyway else making this claim, played the edition yet? Our local group was very happy with it and found that games that would normally be very one-sided ended up being very close (thanks to the tactical cards).

Which are randomly generated, thus you might as well could have flipped a coin and set the game even further in the opposite direction. But that is GWs usual answer to everything, "roll sixes" and now appended "or draw well".

yeah damned randomness, it's interfering with my ability to randomly roll to shoot, randomly roll to get past his armor and randomly roll to wound!

No, just no.

So....you have no clue what-so-ever how any of it works, and based on the fact you know there is a random element of cards, and that alone, in an OPTIONAL ALTERNATE GAME MODE, you conclude that 7th edition is terrible and in effect a dumbed down 6th.

You sir, need to get off our hobby, you just spoil our fun.