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Someone tell me I am wrong on this please ,but it may be a over sight.

From the Grey Knight Codex, Psychic Pilots are ML1, all Psykers which Psychic Pilots have Access to Daemonology.

Under the listing of Psyhic Powers, they just had Fortitude. Now they have Access to Fortitude , Daemonology.

Here's the relevant information

Look at the Army Listing I'm not screencapping it.

From the BRB

Sometimes psychic powers might be manifested by a vehicle, or even by entire squads.
For the purposes of all rules, the term ‘Psyker’ and ‘Psyker unit’ refers to any unit with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rules.

And

Unless otherwise stated, all Psykers, other than those belonging to the Tyranids Faction, can generate powers from the Daemonology discipline.

And

Psykers from Codex: Grey Knights can manifest Sanctic powers as they would any other psychic power, but they cannot generate Malefic powers at all.

And Psychic Pilot
A vehicle with this special rule is treated as being a psyker( Master Level 1) for Psychic Tests etc... (Paraphrased)

Here's why , previously the only available psychic power was Fortitude which they had to choose as they had no other option to take any other discipline because the discipline was not listed Now it's Fortitude or Daemonology Sanctic.

This kind of applies to everyone else in the book as well, they get the option of Daemonology Sanctic.

Now tell me why I am wrong and a crazy person with crazy words.

You are wrong.


You need to look under generating psych powers again.

I feel that strike squads and Rhino's have fixed powers so they can only cast them and not go and get others.

This ?
In some Army List Entries, a Psyker will have one or more specific psychic powers listed – where this is the case, it will be clearly stated. These Psykers always start the game with those psychic powers. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him.

That was what I was thinking.

Hollismason wrote:

This ?
In some Army List Entries, a Psyker will have one or more specific psychic powers listed – where this is the case, it will be clearly stated. These Psykers always start the game with those psychic powers. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him.

That was what I was thinking.

That's the rule. If a psyker has a specific power listed, then that's the one they have to take.

Hollismason wrote:

This ?
In some Army List Entries, a Psyker will have one or more specific psychic powers listed – where this is the case, it will be clearly stated. These Psykers always start the game with those psychic powers. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him.

That was what I was thinking.

This rule basically kills Grey Knight psychic abilities until a FAQ issues. As far as I can see every Grey Knight unit has listed Psychic Powers, which means none have access to Sanctic Powers. Existing powers like Psychic communion, Heroic Sacrifice, Warp Quake, Cleansing Flame etc. are all specified to be used in specific games stages when there is no access to Warp Charge.

Guess we still have hammerhand and some that are described as shooting attacks - sanctifying flame, holocaust. Sowe seem to be the Brotherhood of dispossessed Psykers

until we get faq's really no one can honestly be using demonology if they read the book's three little words that's screwing this all up. "unless otherwise stated" has caused such a mess of things and a lack of faq to clear the air is going to just piss a lot of players off and just not want to play. I was excited for 7th with the flexibility but this has been a terrible release with all these unanswered questions. did they not review? did they think "hey, it's a weekend, no one will be eager to play with the new rules, lets just wait a tick and get back to it after the fishing trip? feels unpolished, feels almost rushed. but again, we have to wait and see. I wonder if we all read our credit card contracts as deeply as we do this game book though...

Also on the same lines, can the vehicle with pilot fortitude cast more than one die for his power?
Do all units with the psychic ability, as all GK units have, cause a die to be put into warp pool?
Do all psychics with mastery levels Librarian, Draigo etc pick a discipline?
Mastery level equals number of powers?

On another note, when do your force weapon holders role for it's power?
And do you still need LD or warp charge for it to go off?

RB wrote:
Also on the same lines, can the vehicle with pilot fortitude cast more than one die for his power?
Do all units with the psychic ability, as all GK units have, cause a die to be put into warp pool?
Do all psychics with mastery levels Librarian, Draigo etc pick a discipline?
Mastery level equals number of powers?

On another note, when do your force weapon holders role for it's power?
And do you still need LD or warp charge for it to go off?

Have you read the rules?

Um maybe these questions need to be FREQUENT before they release an FAQ...

 Celtic Strike wrote:
I feel that strike squads and Rhino's have fixed powers so they can only cast them and not go and get others.

which brings us to a conundrum,

as every single psyker in GK has assigned powers, in addition to FORCE.

yet BRB, and the psychic cards state they are allowed to take rolls on other trees.

that entry on generating powers, is how to generate powers, the ones assigned to you are pre generated, and dont count towards the total # you do generate, as its written now.

needs a FAQ either way though, all sorts of broken right now

 easysauce wrote:

 Celtic Strike wrote:
I feel that strike squads and Rhino's have fixed powers so they can only cast them and not go and get others.

which brings us to a conundrum,

as every single psyker in GK has assigned powers, in addition to FORCE.

yet BRB, and the psychic cards state they are allowed to take rolls on other trees.

that entry on generating powers, is how to generate powers, the ones assigned to you are pre generated, and dont count towards the total # you do generate, as its written now.

needs a FAQ either way though, all sorts of broken right now

Can you elaborate more on your 2nd point the entry on Generating powers?

I really want Rhinos to be able to cast Vortex as it is hilarious. Also the Eldar Psychic Pilot thing specifically says it cannot roll for powers and only knows that one power.

Grey Knight one doesn't say that.

its just one of a few ways ways it could go...

what I think they mean to say, is that anything with a pre generated power or more, only has those powers, but they mean to except characters like coteaz and librarians as they did before perhaps?

or do they mean to give GK access to all the trees listed on the cards, and in the BRB, but not actually allow any pyskers to roll on the trees?

or do they actually want vehicles to be able to cast vortex?


any of those is a possible interpretation of RAW/RAI right now... its stupidly broken ATM.


my 2cents, is that they mean to say the GK squads and vehicles are stuck with whatever they are assigned, but character type guys get their assigned powers and the repective tree rolls...

but what with every daemon being able to cast crazy summoning stuff, I wouldnt be too suprised if in fact vehicles and strike squads do in fact get santic powers.

I sure hope the hemlock wraithfighter gets psychic shriek so that it becomes at least somewhat usable.

Currently the BRB says GKs have access to every tree except Maleifc and Biomancy.

Currently the GK book/current FAQ doesnt have any psykers that can roll on Sanctic to generate powers. Thats the issue until a new FAQ comes out to say who can roll on what

If daemon factory is a thing, then Every GK psyker having access to virtually every psychic discipline is also a thing. Brokey brokington.

Yea if people are going to let demons roll on the Maelific table without their codex saying which units can actually roll on that table.

Not sure what the diff is in letting GK units roll on the sancitc table.

Technically as it stands, no armies can roll on Sanctic/Maelific if we're going by the "Codex trumps rulebook' Caveat.

HIWPI is that the most recent FAQ for 6th still applies, but those characters who could roll BRB powers can take santic powers as well.

 greyknight12 wrote:
HIWPI is that the most recent FAQ for 6th still applies, but those characters who could roll BRB powers can take santic powers as well.

Eh I'd play ICs in the GK codex can roll on the Sanctic table and replace their pre-set powers, FAQ'd ones can roll on tables listed and Sanctic.

But thats just me

yeah... I am pretty sure that vehicles and brotherhood of psykers are supposed to only have what their codex says they have, and its just the IC's who can summon demons or use santic powers.

Its a bit early to be crying about demon factories and rhinos with D weapons just yet.

Not that I dont enjoy the life forces from all these tears.

 easysauce wrote:
yeah... I am pretty sure that vehicles and brotherhood of psykers are supposed to only have what their codex says they have, and its just the IC's who can summon demons or use santic powers.

Its a bit early to be crying about demon factories and rhinos with D weapons just yet.

Not that I dont enjoy the life forces from all these tears.

It specifically mentions Psychic Brotherhood in the White Dwarf and other places as being a good choice for Casting Summoning spells.

Hollismason wrote:


It specifically mentions Psychic Brotherhood in the White Dwarf and other places as being a good choice for Casting Summoning spells.

And when we have a Psychic Brotherhood that's actually specifically allowed to roll on the Summoning tables I'll rejoice at the silliness too. Right now it's all a little vague, which is why half of Dakka has gone batfeth insane in the last couple of days.

Not that I'm not loving every minute of the internet angst. Schadenfreude ftw.

Its not really vague to anyone who is not being obtuse.

Hollismason wrote:
Its not really vague to anyone who is not being obtuse.

Well, we're talking YMDC here, not you and I having a cup of coffee and chatting about 7th edition. 'Vague' for the former not so much for the latter, if you get what I mean.

People can't be missing the fact that most grey knight units automatically have some santic psychic abilities anyway. Hammer hand on most guys, Cleansing flame on Purifiers. I don't see why purifiers can't use cleansing flame as stated in the 7th ed rule book. It's clearly the same power just updated.

Surely if people are having Pink horrors summoning on the malefic table then so can all of our psykers.

chnmmr wrote:
People can't be missing the fact that most grey knight units automatically have some santic psychic abilities anyway. Hammer hand on most guys, Cleansing flame on Purifiers. I don't see why purifiers can't use cleansing flame as stated in the 7th ed rule book. It's clearly the same power just updated.

Because if it's updated it's not the same power. Clearly.

Hollismason wrote:
Its not really vague to anyone who is not being obtuse.

Obtuse? Obtuse!? I feel like throwing you in solitary a la The Shawshank Redemption.


Since you are so obviously a genius and a master of rules, perhaps you can explain it all to us. Who gets which disciplines in the GK codex? Heck, who gets which disciplines in the Demon codex? When you explain try to use small words because we are all obviously not as smart as you are.

The pink horror section of the daemon codex does say they generate their powers, so they legally can take maelific powers. The GK codex unfortunately has very few units that do not have preset powers.

While most GK units don't generate their powers, alot of the ones they have are in santic already. Those are the ones we use. The new Hammer Hand, new Cleansing Flame, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

chnmmr wrote:
People can't be missing the fact that most grey knight units automatically have some santic psychic abilities anyway. Hammer hand on most guys, Cleansing flame on Purifiers. I don't see why purifiers can't use cleansing flame as stated in the 7th ed rule book. It's clearly the same power just updated.

Because if it's updated it's not the same power. Clearly.

But they clearly are. Same name, only the effect is updated for 7th ed.

chnmmr wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

chnmmr wrote:
People can't be missing the fact that most grey knight units automatically have some santic psychic abilities anyway. Hammer hand on most guys, Cleansing flame on Purifiers. I don't see why purifiers can't use cleansing flame as stated in the 7th ed rule book. It's clearly the same power just updated.

Because if it's updated it's not the same power. Clearly.

But they clearly are. Same name, only the effect is updated for 7th ed.

So you thought that the Gate of Infinity power in the BRB replaced the Gate of Infinity power in the 5th edition SM codex?
Interesting. Incorrect, but interesting.

The name is the same. Cite permission to use that power over the one in your Codex. Especially since two powers with the same name is by definition a conflict and what do we know about conflicts between codex and brb?