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chnmmr wrote:
But they clearly are. Same name, only the effect is updated for 7th ed.

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Two things with the same name mean the two things are equal in this game? Does that mean Coteaz from the GK codex makes henchmen from the Inquisition codex troops, since GK Coteaz and Inquisition Coteaz are exactly the same according to you? Nope! Wrong, they aren't exactly the same. I'm pretty sure the precedent there is exactly the opposite of what you'd need to to be for your argument to work.

Super Newb wrote:

chnmmr wrote:
But they clearly are. Same name, only the effect is updated for 7th ed.

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Two things with the same name mean the two things are equal in this game? Does that mean Coteaz from the GK codex makes henchmen from the Inquisition codex troops, since GK Coteaz and Inquisition Coteaz are exactly the same according to you? Nope! Wrong, they aren't exactly the same. I'm pretty sure the precedent there is exactly the opposite of what you'd need to to be for your argument to work.

Are you really saying that it's intended that everyone gets a Hammerhand that's more effective than the Hammerhand that originated from GKs? Everyone else gets a cleansing flame that is better than the cleansing flame that originated from the GK codex?

A bit of common sense is needed here. If the codex overrules the rulebook then demons can not use maelific, Pink horrors can not use maelific as they only generate powers from Change. If the rulebook does overrule the codex unless specifically stated in the codex that it doesn't, then the ability called HAMMERHAND has been updated. The ability called CLEANSING FLAME has been updated. GKs have to use the new force psychic power to use their swords as they can not cast a psychic power out of the psychic phase. Cleansing flame needs to be the new one as the old one is no longer legal. A LOT of the GK psychic powers are no longer legal as they are used outside the psychic phase.

The current rulebook has updated psychic powers that are -very- clearly the ones GKs get. Until errata/new codex says otherwise, I think its perfectly reasonable to use these rewritten psychic abilities with the units that get them. It may not be explicitly written in the rules as written right now that the GKs can use the new powers, but in my eyes it's clearly what is intended and implied.

chnmmr wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

chnmmr wrote:
But they clearly are. Same name, only the effect is updated for 7th ed.

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Two things with the same name mean the two things are equal in this game? Does that mean Coteaz from the GK codex makes henchmen from the Inquisition codex troops, since GK Coteaz and Inquisition Coteaz are exactly the same according to you? Nope! Wrong, they aren't exactly the same. I'm pretty sure the precedent there is exactly the opposite of what you'd need to to be for your argument to work.

Are you really saying that it's intended that everyone gets a Hammerhand that's more effective than the Hammerhand that originated from GKs? Everyone else gets a cleansing flame that is better than the cleansing flame that originated from the GK codex?

A bit of common sense is needed here. If the codex overrules the rulebook then demons can not use maelific, Pink horrors can not use maelific as they only generate powers from Change. If the rulebook does overrule the codex unless specifically stated in the codex that it doesn't, then the ability called HAMMERHAND has been updated. The ability called CLEANSING FLAME has been updated. GKs have to use the new force psychic power to use their swords as they can not cast a psychic power out of the psychic phase. Cleansing flame needs to be the new one as the old one is no longer legal. A LOT of the GK psychic powers are no longer legal as they are used outside the psychic phase.

The current rulebook has updated psychic powers that are -very- clearly the ones GKs get. Until errata/new codex says otherwise, I think its perfectly reasonable to use these rewritten psychic abilities with the units that get them. It may not be explicitly written in the rules as written right now that the GKs can use the new powers, but in my eyes it's clearly what is intended and implied.

It's not "may not" - it isn't. Factually.

And the problem with assuming that you just get them free is that you might be forced to roll on the new table. In fact that's not a horrible trade off - you know without issue the +1 STR power, but if you want the +2 STR you have to roll for it.

A lot of powers in general are no longer legal - can people using those just assume they can pick one out of the BRB? Or are GK special because you say so?

chnmmr wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

chnmmr wrote:
But they clearly are. Same name, only the effect is updated for 7th ed.

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Two things with the same name mean the two things are equal in this game? Does that mean Coteaz from the GK codex makes henchmen from the Inquisition codex troops, since GK Coteaz and Inquisition Coteaz are exactly the same according to you? Nope! Wrong, they aren't exactly the same. I'm pretty sure the precedent there is exactly the opposite of what you'd need to to be for your argument to work.

....

The current rulebook has updated psychic powers that are -very- clearly the ones GKs get. Until errata/new codex says otherwise, I think its perfectly reasonable to use these rewritten psychic abilities with the units that get them.

LOL. Your 'very clear' argument is compelling. In that you keep claiming it is clear over and over again and hope that will make everyone think it is true. Unfortunately, there is much evidence against you. Including what I just wrote above about Coteaz. Something with the same name as something else in this game doesn't mean those two things are exactly the same. I provided a recent example of this. You stick with "but i sez its clear." If you are going to keep rebutting with that, then no need to discuss this with you further.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ANYWAY, this is all off topic.

The issue is, does every psyker in the GK codex get to roll on the spiffy new Santic table? If no, can anyone in the GK codex roll on the Santic table?

At the moment, the only units in the GK codex able to roll for powers are the GK Librarian, Coteaz, and the generic Inquisitors that buy the Psyker upgrade. That is per the GK 5th Ed FAQ.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
At the moment, the only units in the GK codex able to roll for powers are the GK Librarian, Coteaz, and the generic Inquisitors that buy the Psyker upgrade. That is per the GK 5th Ed FAQ.
SJ

Call me crazy, but I'm going to say that the 5th edition FAQ doesn't apply to 7th edition 40K.
If Coteaz and Coteaz (daemon hunter and inquisitor) are not the same, can I take both? I really like the idea of over-lapping zones of free shooting, and forcing opponents (via warp quake) to deep strike between them.

As it stands now, Grey Knights as an army book with access to Sanctic Power, but lack the ability for any psykers to generate powers by rolling. (librarians come with a few powers, and can buy more).
Likewise, A grey knight librarian has the much better old psychic hood that has the leadership contest to shut down powers.

-Matt

Thing is, 5th edition is the only FAQ GKs get because they're still on 5th edition. Their codex is three years old.

But forget that, they just released the newest FAQs. Download them now!

http://www.blacklibrary.com/faqs-and-errata.html

New FAQ states the vehicles only know banishment and santuary from Daemonolgy Sanctic. Sorry to burst the bubble

 conker249 wrote:
New FAQ states the vehicles only know banishment and santuary from Daemonolgy Sanctic. Sorry to burst the bubble

I'm ok with vehicles being able to give themselves invuln saves

Aegis give rerolls of one for Deny the witch rolls, and Reinforced Aegis gives reroll of failed deny the witch rolls, nice

Brotherhood Banner no longer auto-passes Force Weapon activation. /sigh

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Brotherhood Banner no longer auto-passes Force Weapon activation. /sigh

SJ

Saving points!

The Brotherhood champion lost its heroic sacrifice power. Warp quake is gone as is Psychic communication. The loss of warp quake is a big thing. To me this smells of GW wanting Demons to be the next big thing.

Sanctuary pretty much acts as Warp Quake now

Super Newb wrote:

chnmmr wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

chnmmr wrote:
But they clearly are. Same name, only the effect is updated for 7th ed.

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Two things with the same name mean the two things are equal in this game? Does that mean Coteaz from the GK codex makes henchmen from the Inquisition codex troops, since GK Coteaz and Inquisition Coteaz are exactly the same according to you? Nope! Wrong, they aren't exactly the same. I'm pretty sure the precedent there is exactly the opposite of what you'd need to to be for your argument to work.

....

The current rulebook has updated psychic powers that are -very- clearly the ones GKs get. Until errata/new codex says otherwise, I think its perfectly reasonable to use these rewritten psychic abilities with the units that get them.

LOL. Your 'very clear' argument is compelling. In that you keep claiming it is clear over and over again and hope that will make everyone think it is true. Unfortunately, there is much evidence against you. Including what I just wrote above about Coteaz. Something with the same name as something else in this game doesn't mean those two things are exactly the same. I provided a recent example of this. You stick with "but i sez its clear." If you are going to keep rebutting with that, then no need to discuss this with you further.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ANYWAY, this is all off topic.

The issue is, does every psyker in the GK codex get to roll on the spiffy new Santic table? If no, can anyone in the GK codex roll on the Santic table?

Well the FAQ has answered all this. Hammerhand is Hammerhand, Cleansing flame is Cleansing flame. Done

Yeah I'd close this but I don't know how.

ALthough apparently Eldar Flyers can become possessed by Daemons.

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah I'd close this but I don't know how.

You can't but a mod can.
See the little yellow triangle symbol in the top right of each post? Click that and type a message that the mods will read.

chnmmr wrote:


Well the FAQ has answered all this. Hammerhand is Hammerhand, Cleansing flame is Cleansing flame. Done

The FAQ errata'd this. They didn't interpret what was there previously. They changed it. That's proper. The argument made earlier in here by you was not.

Yeah, this topic has been answered by the FAQ, so closing now.