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The rule for wyverns is this "How many wyverns you got, it doesnt matter you need two more"

Seriously if you have to even ask if you should get more wyverns, you dont have enough wyverns.

All joking aside I believe the money spot is either one unit of two, potentially 1 unit of three.

well i'm scratch building two wyverns. i am tempted to see about these formations as if they make ogryn's usable i would be happy.

So is anyone having issues with list building?

Im having trouble covering my bases, or should i throw caution to the wind and go full ham with 2 vets as troop only?

Its a good problem to have having too many choices.

I am not having problems but I run blob guard so I literally have all my bases covered.

That and pimp daddy yarrick to fill the gaps

Actually iv ran that quite a bit but run into Yarrick BLAM ing my psykers when they perils (which happen to be alot :( )

Otherwise the big unit assplods quickly to focused fire if i dont have a forewarning psyker on them.

Think id be better to shove the psykers into another near by squad?

If your not against allies I would bring in psykers from other armies such as inquisition or space marines so they dont get blamed.

Also inquisition is a good source of cheap warp charges.

 Desubot wrote:
Hmm running into a bit of an uncommon problem. friend running tzeench daemons at 1500 points was poping out about 40 some odd warp charges. is that right??? 8 heralds LoC and a bunch of pink things all over the place. is that possible?

I chucked in 2 lv2 primaris psykers and came to the conclusion that against excessively warp charged armies i will never cast a thing and will rarely deny anything :/ would it be best to chuck those points into say more tanks?

My buddy actually did the math and it's actually better for the Astra militarum to bring more guns. He did the math for a blob of 3 infantry squads armed with 3 lascannons and found that you need a 4 squad blob to really benefit from the prescience. Once you run into psychic heavy armies it becomes so easy for them to deny you.

Since then I have listened to his advice and so far bringing more guns does better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes always bring a squad of 2 wyverns. The only time I don't run wyverns is in my russ heavy armored lists where I try to get my hydras to cover the air.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also...the steel host is a formation, don't you still need a primary detachment for your army?

Did his math include senior orders into the equation? I know personally the main advantage of prescience/other div spells is that they synergize well with my other buffs

 Desubot wrote:
So is anyone having issues with list building?

Im having trouble covering my bases, or should i throw caution to the wind and go full ham with 2 vets as troop only?

Been having a lot of success with Pask and the various combinations he can bring in his squad. Where I get torn is the troop load out... There are just so many different combinations and options to consider. Lately I've been fielding two platoons for my troop slots with 2-3 flamers in the PCS and ACs or HBs in the 10men squads. Also been fielding a conscript blob with a priest for wrapping around the tanks or sitting on objectives. Haven't tried it yet but I've been considering dropping the platoons for 2 vet squads w/ chimeras. Also want to field my ogryns or bullgryns more since my opponents are always trying to get me into close combat but still find it hard to justify the points for those guys.

 Leth wrote:
Did his math include senior orders into the equation? I know personally the main advantage of prescience/other div spells is that they synergize well with my other buffs

The math was fairly simple. Assuming a stock primaris psyker, you buy ld 10 for the squad and prescience. For 3 lascannons, that means taking 1.5 hits to 2.25 hits. 20 points more nets you a forth lascannon and nine more wounds, taking you to 2 hits average but also boosting your hit potential from 3 to 4, and giving you more guns to benefit from the orders.

This assumes prescience went off without a hitch, and continuously does so.

After you add that forth gun, prescience gets notably better.

As with most things with IG, our abilities get much better with scale. A commissar is a weak buy for a guard squad, but on a 30 man blob he's a steal. Orders similarly aren't useful on single squads, except vets or maybe heavy weapons squads. Prescience should probably be targeting your vehicles, particularly if they're in a squadron.

So ive been thinking of allying in Space Marines and taking a Master of the Forge and two tech marines. I would bolster 3 terrian peices and put 3 vet squads in there with sentries and most likely las cannons for a 2+ cover save. I would take a 10 man tac squad with melta in a Drop pod and maybe buy the MoF and Tech Marines a Las Back. What do you guys think?

Well I ran the steel host formation today and I will say that I am happy with the formation. I ran a a bare minimum of 5 russes set up as:

Vanquisher-TC/LC/MM
Executioner with plasma sponsons

Squad 1: vanquisher-LC/PC
Squad 2: x2 LRBT's
Squad 3: eradicator HB's

Then there's the hydra

What's nice about this is that the lone hydra doesn't pose a huge anti air threat and most flyers would rather focus on taking out infantry or going right for armor. With all the russes your opponent may not worry about that hydra. I know in my game the storm raven ignored the hydra which ended with the hydra bringing the flyer down.

The russes themselves were great. I really liked running battle tanks and executioners with this formation.

 tankboy145 wrote:
Well I ran the steel host formation today and I will say that I am happy with the formation. I ran a a bare minimum of 5 russes set up as:

Vanquisher-TC/LC/MM
Executioner with plasma sponsons

Squad 1: vanquisher-LC/PC
Squad 2: x2 LRBT's
Squad 3: eradicator HB's

Then there's the hydra

What's nice about this is that the lone hydra doesn't pose a huge anti air threat and most flyers would rather focus on taking out infantry or going right for armor. With all the russes your opponent may not worry about that hydra. I know in my game the storm raven ignored the hydra which ended with the hydra bringing the flyer down.

The russes themselves were great. I really liked running battle tanks and executioners with this formation.

that looks deadly. really want to try this formation. did you use the datasheet that was included in the sanctus reach book? i'm curious to know what benefits the formation has.

also, you said you ran five russes... did you mean to write six since your second tank squad has 2 LRBTs? not trying to be a stickler, just trying to learn more about the formation and see if i should splurge and buy the sanctus reach book.

Yes! There was 6 my bad I forgot when I was writing up points I had enough for another battle tank so I figured I would throw it in lol.

Requirements are a tank command, 3 leman russ squadrons and a hydra so you have to take the tank commander which also has to take another russ then you can have 3 lone russes or if you want to add more you could spam 12 russes with this(3 with tc and 3 in each of the 3 squadrons)

The only special ability or rule it gives you is that any of the vehicles within 12" of the tc gets preferred enemy. So pretty much the battle tanks were having a field day just wounding everything.

Other than that no special rules. Basically this formation just allows you to run a russ heavy army with a hydra as anti air support.


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If your getting the book for just the formation then I would pass. It's a page. And I listed the requirements and the one special rule that the formation gets so you know everything you need. But if you love a good story the book had a great amount of fluff and even has the updated rules for planet strike which is how I tested this formation out and the rules are actually very fun.

 tankboy145 wrote:
Yes! There was 6 my bad I forgot when I was writing up points I had enough for another battle tank so I figured I would throw it in lol.

Requirements are a tank command, 3 leman russ squadrons and a hydra so you have to take the tank commander which also has to take another russ then you can have 3 lone russes or if you want to add more you could spam 12 russes with this(3 with tc and 3 in each of the 3 squadrons)

The only special ability or rule it gives you is that any of the vehicles within 12" of the tc gets preferred enemy. So pretty much the battle tanks were having a field day just wounding everything.

Other than that no special rules. Basically this formation just allows you to run a russ heavy army with a hydra as anti air support.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If your getting the book for just the formation then I would pass. It's a page. And I listed the requirements and the one special rule that the formation gets so you know everything you need. But if you love a good story the book had a great amount of fluff and even has the updated rules for planet strike which is how I tested this formation out and the rules are actually very fun.

thanks for all the info! have you tried out the ogryn/bullgryn formation yet?

Unfortunetly not. It's grants one additional point of cover. But I don't have the models to try it with.

 Nashole211 wrote:
So ive been thinking of allying in Space Marines and taking a Master of the Forge and two tech marines. I would bolster 3 terrian peices and put 3 vet squads in there with sentries and most likely las cannons for a 2+ cover save. I would take a 10 man tac squad with melta in a Drop pod and maybe buy the MoF and Tech Marines a Las Back. What do you guys think?

That's pretty sneaky.

I could see myself perhaps making a drop-pod Sally's list with a MotF HQ and a Tech-Marine, then take an allied Guard detachment consisting of a tank commander and his bros, a guardsmen platoon with heavy weapons and a squadron of wyverns.

Give the wyverns and guardsmen camo-cloaks/netting and stick them in the improved cover granted by the MotF/TM for a cozy 2+ cover save, then push up the tanks to wreak havock after your drop-podding marines neutralize most of the scariest things in your opponent's list.

 tankboy145 wrote:
Unfortunetly not. It's grants one additional point of cover. But I don't have the models to try it with.

I'd be really interested in hearing some feedback for that formation. I haven't been a huge fan of Ogryns in general, but the extra point of cover is pretty nifty and I had a good idea about using the Ogryn as a way to get some of those 30k robot models on the field. It's a pretty large purchase if the Ogryn simply aren't going to work even for semi-competitive play though.

 eluxir wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:
Well I ran the steel host formation today and I will say that I am happy with the formation. I ran a a bare minimum of 5 russes set up as:

Vanquisher-TC/LC/MM
Executioner with plasma sponsons

Squad 1: vanquisher-LC/PC
Squad 2: x2 LRBT's
Squad 3: eradicator HB's

Then there's the hydra

What's nice about this is that the lone hydra doesn't pose a huge anti air threat and most flyers would rather focus on taking out infantry or going right for armor. With all the russes your opponent may not worry about that hydra. I know in my game the storm raven ignored the hydra which ended with the hydra bringing the flyer down.

The russes themselves were great. I really liked running battle tanks and executioners with this formation.

that looks deadly. really want to try this formation. did you use the datasheet that was included in the sanctus reach book? i'm curious to know what benefits the formation has.

also, you said you ran five russes... did you mean to write six since your second tank squad has 2 LRBTs? not trying to be a stickler, just trying to learn more about the formation and see if i should splurge and buy the sanctus reach book.

If you just want the Steel Host Formation datasheet it's in White Dwarf 23.

 tankboy145 wrote:
Unfortunetly not. It's grants one additional point of cover. But I don't have the models to try it with.

So according ton Frontline, that isn't all it gives. Supposidly, it also gives counter attack and fearless. That, coupled with a priest, is a nasty beatstick.

It may I haven't had my book on me to check it.


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Yea they also get counter attack, fear, and fearless.

So played a game of 7th today. 1500 points of mechanized IG goodness vs a 1500 point Farsight bomb.

I learned a few interesting things, chief of which is misfortune DESTROYS units. Turns out that, once the farsight bomb has every hit allocated towards it have rending it folds fast (rending lasguns are silly). I also learned how important carapace armor is. Having BS4 vets shrugging of small arms fire to deliver accurate and needed firepower helped me to turn back several tau units that got too close.

I ended up losing 10/9 on tactical objectives (if the game had ended turn 5 I won, but I lost my momentum). I will be experimenting with manticores in my next game, but I am still finding IG to be a very enjoyable army to play with.

 tankboy145 wrote:
It may I haven't had my book on me to check it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yea they also get counter attack, fear, and fearless.

Dizzam. I would love to give this formation a shot. Mind filling me in on the rest of the details?

 Happygrunt wrote:
So played a game of 7th today. 1500 points of mechanized IG goodness vs a 1500 point Farsight bomb.

I learned a few interesting things, chief of which is misfortune DESTROYS units. Turns out that, once the farsight bomb has every hit allocated towards it have rending it folds fast (rending lasguns are silly). I also learned how important carapace armor is. Having BS4 vets shrugging of small arms fire to deliver accurate and needed firepower helped me to turn back several tau units that got too close.

I ended up losing 10/9 on tactical objectives (if the game had ended turn 5 I won, but I lost my momentum). I will be experimenting with manticores in my next game, but I am still finding IG to be a very enjoyable army to play with.

Sorry to hear about your loss, but you are damn right about misfortune. When I field my psykers I always roll on Divination. Forewarning and Misfortune always help if I can get them and obviously Prescience is great. Also, I fielded a manticore in my match against necrons last week. Was expecting him to bring multiple units of 10-20 warriors and he didn't bring anything of the sort. Was still able to damage some of his vehicles by striping HPs, but it didn't do as much damage as I was hoping. Still... Ordnance D3 at S10 can ruin hordes so I'll be bringing it again despite it's recent lackluster performance.

I've given up on Manticores, 170 is way too expensive for something that a third of the time puts out a garbage amount of firepower and only really justifies its cost if you roll 3 pie plates. I played with Lootas just the other day with my Orks, and for two turns I rolled 1 shot each, which arguably in effect lost me the game as my 200~ unit did jack in the critical turns of the game, and then died to a Wraithknight over several turns.

The fact its BS3 and probably making the most of barrage just hurts it more.

The big killer though is that a full squadron of 3 Wyverns (25 pts more), with more or less triple the survivability and given your luck isn't terrible or you make a mistake, a guaranteed 12 mini-pie plates that have far greater accuracy (TL) and in practice do far, far more damage, only losing out on pitiful last-ditch hull-point shaving and denying FNP. Honestly, though? The Wyverns more than compensate.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
I've given up on Manticores, 170 is way too expensive for something that a third of the time puts out a garbage amount of firepower and only really justifies its cost if you roll 3 pie plates. I played with Lootas just the other day with my Orks, and for two turns I rolled 1 shot each, which arguably in effect lost me the game as my 200~ unit did jack in the critical turns of the game, and then died to a Wraithknight over several turns.

The fact its BS3 and probably making the most of barrage just hurts it more.

The big killer though is that a full squadron of 3 Wyverns (25 pts more), with more or less triple the survivability and given your luck isn't terrible or you make a mistake, a guaranteed 12 mini-pie plates that have far greater accuracy (TL) and in practice do far, far more damage, only losing out on pitiful last-ditch hull-point shaving and denying FNP. Honestly, though? The Wyverns more than compensate.

The whole idea of d3 or d6 attacks on weapons is silly. The randomness is in the BS and scatter, having a long range missile that has a piñata of anywhere between 1 and 3 warheads is goofy. Just make it 2 hits.

I think one unit of wyverns and two deathstrikes could be fun

What about the Hellhound, Devil Dog and Bane Wolf? I have yet to field them, but I'm anxious to give them a shot. Especially the Chem cannon wounding on 2+. And adding 12" to the template range with torrent seems promising as well. Thoughts?

 eluxir wrote:
What about the Hellhound, Devil Dog and Bane Wolf? I have yet to field them, but I'm anxious to give them a shot. Especially the Chem cannon wounding on 2+. And adding 12" to the template range with torrent seems promising as well. Thoughts?

I love the devil dog, but it is only good if you are facing some kind of mechanized army. If your opponent dose not have enough tanks for the devil dog to go hunt then it is just wasted points.

Well, the Bane wolf doesn't have torrent, it acts as a standard template weapon (so from the muzle of the Bane wolf's canon), which really negates any adventage his wounds-on-2s-with-AP3 weapon has.