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So, with the release of the FAQ and all, do you thing CSM lost on this new edition or did it make them better? Why/how? I am not seeing too many upsides aside from summoning daemons, stronger vehicles and maybe Arhiman's staff.

They nerfed Helldrakes. CSMs are dooooooomed.

p8ntba1141ife wrote:
So, with the release of the FAQ and all, do you thing CSM lost on this new edition or did it make them better? Why/how? I am not seeing too many upsides aside from summoning daemons, stronger vehicles and maybe Arhiman's staff.

summoning daemons, get periled to death
stronger vehicles, I guess forgefiends and maulerfiends are better
Arhiman, overprice sorceror who had 5 powers, but 2-3 of them are worthless tzzeench powers


Maulerfiends are in fact better, not because they are more difficult to blow up, because now with magmacutters they will own MCs without str8+

Cyphers chosen dataslate is still awesome

Unmarked sorcerers are great. 4 powers, reroll casting attempts for cheap. Great stuff.

Spell Familiars are huge in 7th.

Kyutaru wrote:
They nerfed Helldrakes. CSMs are dooooooomed.

Not nerfed.
No.

They are obliterated, scorched beyond all reckoning.
Gone.

The overall nerf to vector strikes would have balanced them.
The change to their LoS slammed them down.
170 pts is too much to pay for what's left of the once mighty (admittedly broken) Heldrake.

 cbteom wrote:

Kyutaru wrote:
They nerfed Helldrakes. CSMs are dooooooomed.

Not nerfed.
No.

They are obliterated, scorched beyond all reckoning.
Gone.

The overall nerf to vector strikes would have balanced them.
The change to their LoS slammed them down.
170 pts is too much to pay for what's left of the once mighty (admittedly broken) Heldrake.

More room for the amazing Spawns and Bikes Along with the boosts to unmarked Sorcerors they should be quite good still.

What exactly changed aside from them ONLY releasing the new FAQs and reworked wording of past Errata failures?

Last I checked the old Erratas are still coming out later this week..

the helldrake is dead...

awesome I never bought one and now people with skill can play chaos without being criticised for "its not got 3 drake ergo it sucks"

things that died
drake
daemon prince
quad guns

thing infused with the unholy power of the 7th edition rules
psyker bio price, S9 T8 princes kick ass
all vehicles (you will not be mocked for bringing a brute, heck im even thinking of blowing the dust off my defiler)
sorcerers
ahirman


frankly I am enjoying the change and we got off lightly

Tyranids are completely trashed due to the MC nerf, and they weren't that strong to begin with

Ork anti armour is now useless as they are forced to glance things to death,

Tau and necrons to a lesser extent facing a rough time as heavy psyker lists become prevalent, noticing the lil blue guys are uncomfortable with the ultramarine player and his recently acquired collection of daemons, necrons being necrons are actually profiting form chariot changes and monoliths are now indestructible rape machines once more.

Everyone wants daemons to summon but as chaos we typically include some in our lists already, I don't know about you lot but I already have daemons knocking about, which is lucky as my GW store has sold out, theme is "one 7th edition rules and a box o Daemons"

the change to challenges greatly improves combat characters. also less likely to be stomped to death

Is the drake completely dead? not even autocannon ?

Maybe, just maybe, Defilers are worth taking now..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ashikenshin wrote:
Is the drake completely dead? not even autocannon ?

Autocannon drake is still the best, if not only anti air option.

Ah, that feel of being halfway through building two Heldrakes over the past few weeks only to see their rules piledrived by our friends at GW. Today hasn't been a fun day.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Maybe, just maybe, Defilers are worth taking now..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ashikenshin wrote:
Is the drake completely dead? not even autocannon ?

Autocannon drake is still the best, if not only anti air option.

But was still hurt quite badly by the change from turret to hull mounted. No more shooting rear armor, no more vector strike then shoot same thing to finish it off.

I'd like to point out that in the Crimson Slaughter Supplement there's the Prophet of the Voices artefact. It grants the Daemon USR, among others. Give it to a ML3 Sorc, take a Spell Familiar aaand...

The change to Vector Strike has already prompted me to consider using my Heldrake for Anti-Vehicle/Anti-Flyer. I think I'm gonna swap its Baleflamer for Hades Autocannon and call it a day. Anyway, there's possibility that the FAQ might be updated to include lots of clarifications it used to have before, so perhaps wait a few days before you sell out your turkeys?

Smash nerf + change to Vehicle Damage Chart = my Decimator Daemon Engine wants some tasty TMCs for breakfast.

The ADL Quad-gun's nerf made me sad. I can live with that, though (see Heldrake above).

For those of us who never bothered to use more than 1 Drake anyway, I don't feel it's that much of a nerf. The army wasn't built to rely on drakes, and them becoming Not OP just makes my friends hate me less when I pull out my army.

With our awesome Sorcs, 1K sons becoming maybe back in style, all our daemon engines becoming more durable, etc, I think we're in a decent place.
I won my first 7th game vs Tau, anyway.
(lol Nwabudikemorgan if you see this yes your list wasn't crazy competitive, but neither was mine)

p8ntba1141ife wrote:
So, with the release of the FAQ and all, do you thing CSM lost on this new edition or did it make them better? Why/how? I am not seeing too many upsides aside from summoning daemons, stronger vehicles and maybe Arhiman's staff.

as mentioned Tsons do get a huge buff. Which takes them from horrendously bad to casual.

The sorc now gets 2 tzeench powers and he can fire them at a different unit than the Tsons use their bolters on.

Most of my Chaos Space Marine battles do in fact end in a Win or Lose.

What was nerfed about the Quad Gun?

 Lord Krungharr wrote:
What was nerfed about the Quad Gun?

If you have Skyfire you now snapfire against non-Flyers/FMC/Skimmers. The only benefit of Interceptor is the out of sequence shooting attack. It gives no bonuses against ground based targets.

I would like to know how the free primaris power for marked sorcs interacts with the minimum and the maximum one can roll on a god table. Either the freebie counts toward neither and you're stuck with a roll on a god table plus that table's primaris. Alternatively, it counts for both meaning the freebie fulfills your obligation to the mark, but also meaning that anything below a ML3 psyker cannot get anything but the primaris on the god tables as you can't generate more than half your powers from it. Its real funky, I wish they'd just remove the restrictions. The powers are entirely underwhelming anyway.

While Ahriman got a buff (maybe) Typhus I feel has suffered from the new Psychic phase. He's stuck on the Nurgle chart with only d6 +2 Charges.It will be pretty easy to dispel him, and dispel his Force weapon. I'm trying to figure if Zombies even matter for us anymore...

1. Unbound army.
2. Take Typhus.
3. Make sure there isn't too much dakka.
4. Take a million zombies.
5. Troll.

 Exergy wrote:

p8ntba1141ife wrote:
So, with the release of the FAQ and all, do you thing CSM lost on this new edition or did it make them better? Why/how? I am not seeing too many upsides aside from summoning daemons, stronger vehicles and maybe Arhiman's staff.

as mentioned Tsons do get a huge buff. Which takes them from horrendously bad to casual.

The sorc now gets 2 tzeench powers and he can fire them at a different unit than the Tsons use their bolters on.

1k Sons are indeed better now.
Their main problem was their cost, lack of heavy weapons and immobility due to slow and purposeful.
The only solution to the slow problem was using metal boxes, which would blow up and fail.
The changes to the vehicle damage table definitely improves their playability here.
They also play nicely into the new Psyker heavy armies thanks to their ML1 Aspiring Sorceror (which is still, sadly, stuck with the Tzeentchian primaris).

My 3 boxes of 1k Sons bitz likes this.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
While Ahriman got a buff (maybe) Typhus I feel has suffered from the new Psychic phase. He's stuck on the Nurgle chart with only d6 +2 Charges.It will be pretty easy to dispel him, and dispel his Force weapon. I'm trying to figure if Zombies even matter for us anymore...

I've not used Typhus in ages I've instead been using Necrosius from the latest imperial armour apoc book, less points and he also provides zombies, as well as giving them furious charge, depends how FW friendly your area is though.

Daemon Engine Spam is a thing.

Helbrute
Defiler
HadesDrake
Forgefiend

This is actually quite powerful. You just annihilate droves with shooting. Autocannons tend to be the go to weapon here.

Make sure to take a Warpsmith.

Just don't use Typhus for his powers and use him for zombies. His weapon means he probably won't have to use force anyway, anything which can survive up to 10 S6 AP2 attacks is probably a silly thing to charge anyway.

Still waiting for an update for Necrosius ><

Deathwhisper wrote:
Still waiting for an update for Necrosius ><

I don't see anything about the profile in Imperial Armour Apoc that needs updating, that version was created in 6th after the release of the current CSM dex, none of his rules have been invalidated by 7th.

Edit: Just to be super clear, Page 151 of 2013's Imperial Armour Apocalypse (the one with a red chaos reaver on the cover), has a 6th edition profile of Necrosius on it.

For the points cost of a daemon prince of tzeentch with no addons you get a WS+BS 5 S4 T5 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 chaos character in power armour, with a force sword, bolt pistol with 4+ poison, krak, frag and blight grenades. Then the lovely list of special rules IC, Champion of chaos, VotLW, Fearless, FNP, MoN, Plague Zombies (see C:CSM Pg 61), Master of the dead, Psyker ML2, Warlord.

Necrosius knows Nurgle's Rot, Gift of contagion and has the warp charge 1 power wasting disease, 24" S3 AP2 Assault 1, Fleshbane, focused witchfire that requires no roll to hit and automatically hits the target you choose.

Master of the dead grants furious charge to zombies taken from C:CSM and to zombies from the renegades and heretics list servants of decay. Warlord trait is everything within 12" of him has to use lowest leadership for everything.

If typing out all that breaks some rule feel free to delete it!

Puscifer wrote:
Daemon Engine Spam is a thing.

Helbrute
Defiler
HadesDrake
Forgefiend

This is actually quite powerful. You just annihilate droves with shooting. Autocannons tend to be the go to weapon here.

Make sure to take a Warpsmith.

Funny, I tried something similar a month ago and was laughed at for trying such a silly list.
Quite a change in tack, made possible by a few rules changes.

I never used Helldrakes, but i will now. I hate being that guy that always fields a broken unit.

Doesn't seem like typhus got a nerf. He can cast up to 3 powers a turn. He can target different units. Whats not to like about a level 2 sorcerer/warlord with a daemon weapon.

1000 sons got a nice bump too.