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Rules for reserves on page 135. Last two sentences of the paragraph with the heading of "Preparing Reserves"

"The only exception to this are units that cannot move after they have been deployed. Such units are removed as casualties if it is impossible to deploy them during the Deployment step of preparing for battle."

Since Drop Pods are forced into reserves and therefore it is "impossible" to deploy them during the Deployment step of preparing for a battle, and they are immobile vehicles that cannot move, are they destroyed right after they land?

Is this going to be the "drop pods lose a hull point when they land because they become immobilised" thing from 6th?

Either way, I am gonna so no.

 FinkleLord wrote:
Is this going to be the "drop pods lose a hull point when they land because they become immobilised" thing from 6th?

Either way, I am gonna so no.

I have no idea, which is why I asked the question here.

At least GW FAQ'd the losing a hull point bit.

The Drop pod rules are more advanced than the basic Reserve rules. They are not destroyed.

drop pods have special rules allowing you to move them so that they can be placed, even if they land on top of other models.

the only way they will be destroyed arriving from reserves is if there is literally no where on the table they can physically fit while still being 1" away from other models.

 DeathReaper wrote:
The Drop pod rules are more advanced than the basic Reserve rules. They are not destroyed.

In what way? All the Drop Pod rules say is that they arrive using the Deep Strike rules.

 easysauce wrote:
drop pods have special rules allowing you to move them so that they can be placed, even if they land on top of other models.

the only way they will be destroyed arriving from reserves is if there is literally no where on the table they can physically fit while still being 1" away from other models.

The rules from the BRB I quoted have nothing to do with that. Not to mention even if they are forced to land on impassible terrain or other units/models that doesn't equal forced destruction. Its a mishap and you roll on the mishap table.

we follow the rules in the codex... which deal directly with all of this... being more specific than these general rules, and the rules being followed (drop pods do move, at cruising speed, then are immobile).

 Marius Xerxes wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The Drop pod rules are more advanced than the basic Reserve rules. They are not destroyed.

In what way? All the Drop Pod rules say is that they arrive using the Deep Strike rules.

Because they specifically allow you to drop 1/2 of your pods turn one, something not available in the basic rules.

Therefore the Drop Pod rules trump the more basic reserve rules. The DP rules are more specific, so the Pod is not destroyed.

 Lobukia wrote:

we follow the rules in the codex... which deal directly with all of this... being more specific than these general rules, and the rules being followed (drop pods do move, at cruising speed, then are immobile).

Counting as having moved at cruising speed means nothing. It is unable to move after deployment. And that the exact stipulation of the rules I quoted in the OP.

A drop pod becomes immobile the moment it enters play, by codex rules. It enters play when it is deployed. Ergo, it is unable to move after deployment.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Because they specifically allow you to drop 1/2 of your pods turn one, something not available in the basic rules.

Therefore the Drop Pod rules trump the more basic reserve rules. The DP rules are more specific, so the Pod is not destroyed.

That doesn't change anything with what I quoted though.

Were you able to deploy it during the Deployment step of preparing for battle? No

Are you still coming from Reserve even at turn 1? Yes

Is it a model that is unable to move after it is deployed? Yes.

There is nothing more specific or overriding about the Drop Pod rules in rearguards to the quoted text in the OP.

Okay. I've avoided being snarky but you've persisted. Clearly this is a case of general vs advanced. A general rule for reserves vs a very specific set of rules in a codex that tells us to do something different. The specific rules walks us through reserve and deployment. If you're trying to retroactively apply a rule that goes into effect AFTER a unit is deployed to reserve rules that would go into effect before the game begins, I ask you to use both your algebra and reading skills... order of operation and comprehension.

There is a difference between "counts as" and "is". That's why they both exist in the rules. It even says it cannot move "once it's entered play", which it does "via deep strike rules" and it "must be held in reserve" and "must enter play". I might have to explain how rules work in board games. Must trumps can't, specific trumps general. That's chess through SFBS.

If you're right... So how's this playout then, let me know, by the rules, how you think this resolves.

 Marius Xerxes wrote:
That doesn't change anything with what I quoted though.

Were you able to deploy it during the Deployment step of preparing for battle? No

Are you still coming from Reserve even at turn 1? Yes

Is it a model that is unable to move after it is deployed? Yes.

There is nothing more specific or overriding about the Drop Pod rules in rearguards to the quoted text in the OP.

It is still a case of Advanced Vs Basic.

Reserves is basic, Drop Pod Assault is advanced.

As per the BRB Advanced Trumps Basic.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Marius Xerxes wrote:
That doesn't change anything with what I quoted though.

Were you able to deploy it during the Deployment step of preparing for battle? No

Are you still coming from Reserve even at turn 1? Yes

Is it a model that is unable to move after it is deployed? Yes.

There is nothing more specific or overriding about the Drop Pod rules in rearguards to the quoted text in the OP.

It is still a case of Advanced Vs Basic.

Reserves is basic, Drop Pod Assault is advanced.

As per the BRB Advanced Trumps Basic.

When there's a conflict, sure.
Where's the conflict? Obviously I'm missing it - can you do me a favor and point it out?

 Marius Xerxes wrote:
Since Drop Pods are forced into reserves and therefore it is "impossible" to deploy them during the Deployment step of preparing for a battle, and they are immobile vehicles that cannot move, are they destroyed right after they land?

The way I read it, they're actually destroyed instead of going into Reserves in the first place.

Which is amusing. Clearly not intentional, but amusing.

Context is your friend.

What is this an exception to?

It is an exception to the placing in reserves models that cannot be deployed.

Drop pods are different, they must be held in reserve per their rules, not that they cannot fit on the table.

An Immobile artillery piece(like from IA1) that you waited to deploy and then find that you cannot deploy it due to space limitations, then your artillery piece is destroyed.

Full quote: " In addition, if it impossible to deploy a unit for any reason, it must be placed in Reserve. The only exception to this are units that cannot move after they have been deployed. Such units are removed as casualties if it is impossible to deploy them during the Deployment step of Preparing for Battle."

So is it possible to deploy a drop pod in the deployment phase?

No. Go to step 2.

Is a drop pod a model that can not move after it has deployed?

Yes.



Again, clearly not the intention here... but an awesome piece of poorly-thought-out rules writing.

 insaniak wrote:
So is it possible to deploy a drop pod in the deployment phase?

No. Go to step 2.

Is a drop pod a model that can not move after it has deployed?

Yes.



Again, clearly not the intention here... but an awesome piece of poorly-thought-out rules writing.

It is not that it is impossible to deploy a drop pod, it is that the drop pod's rules require it to deep strike, there is a difference.

The choice to place the pod in reserve is simply made for you.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
It is not that it is impossible to deploy a drop pod

So you're saying it is possible for a drop pod to be deployed during the deployment phase?

Please explain how.

The choice to place the pod in reserve is simply made for you.

Which makes it impossible to deploy it during the deployment phase.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Marius Xerxes wrote:
That doesn't change anything with what I quoted though.

Were you able to deploy it during the Deployment step of preparing for battle? No

Are you still coming from Reserve even at turn 1? Yes

Is it a model that is unable to move after it is deployed? Yes.

There is nothing more specific or overriding about the Drop Pod rules in rearguards to the quoted text in the OP.

It is still a case of Advanced Vs Basic.

Reserves is basic, Drop Pod Assault is advanced.

As per the BRB Advanced Trumps Basic.

When there's a conflict, sure.
Where's the conflict? Obviously I'm missing it - can you do me a favor and point it out?

"When deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy some of their units, keeping them as Reserves to arrive later." (BRB Digital page #899.7 Preparing Reserves section). This is the context, do not ignore it. They are talking about units that are immobile and able to be deployed normally. The Drop Pod is not included in this as you can never choose not to deploy it so this graph does not pertain to them.

Also:

One thing wants you to deploy normally, the other forces you into reserves. There is your conflict, Advanced rules of Drop Pod wins, End of.

RAW this is correct. But no one is going to play it like this, and the RAI is clearly not supporting this point of view.

I know its not super related but do you not have to put any units on the table now if you are playing all drop pods?

This is not a case of Advanced vs General. This is about being ridiculous. Grats, you have succeeded in your task!

"Look, mom, I can shoot without eyes!"

If it worked that way what happens to the units inside it?

Hollismason wrote:
I know its not super related but do you not have to put any units on the table now if you are playing all drop pods?

Nope. Although you didn't last edition either.

Naw wrote:
This is not a case of Advanced vs General. This is about being ridiculous. Grats, you have succeeded in your task!

Er, it would be the guy who wrote the rulebook that you should be congratulating on that one...

 Jimsolo wrote:
RAW this is correct. But no one is going to play it like this, and the RAI is clearly not supporting this point of view.

As I cited, the line about being unable to move after deployed is not talking about drop pods. They are talking about units that are immobile and able to be deployed normally.

The Drop Pod is not included in this as you can never choose not to deploy it so this graph does not pertain to them.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

Full quote: " In addition, if it impossible to deploy a unit for any reason, it must be placed in Reserve. The only exception to this are units that cannot move after they have been deployed. Such units are removed as casualties if it is impossible to deploy them during the Deployment step of Preparing for Battle."

I will agree that this is a horribly written rule and definitely did not take drop pods into account. I do believe that it was not the intent to destroy drop pods however and they should be used as their codex allows.

I'm about to go into a very strict RAW reading here, so bear with me.

The rule as written does not destroy the drop pod when it arrives, it destroys the drop pod and all occupants at the very end of the deployment step. The drop pod cannot move after it has been deployed, meeting the first criteria. The drop pod is destroyed when it meets the second criteria, it's impossible to deploy during the deployment step. After all, the rule doesn't tell you to destroy the unit when you deploy it, it tells you it is destroyed if it cannot be deployed. Just as if it had previously scattered off the table and had rolled a destroyed result. It never even has a chance to deploy.

This perfectly written rule has removed drop pods from the game entirely. The rule is crap.

 insaniak wrote:

Naw wrote:
This is not a case of Advanced vs General. This is about being ridiculous. Grats, you have succeeded in your task!

Er, it would be the guy who wrote the rulebook that you should be congratulating on that one...

You can't seriously argue that. Even though this is YMDC some restrain could be shown.

What is next? A person arguing a farseer attached to a guardian unit not being able to manifest more than one power??

We already had the stupidity of "no eyes" or FMC's and smash/relentless, must we repeat that? It is quite clear what the intention of the drop pods are. Arguing otherwise is just being silly.

Naw wrote:
You can't seriously argue that.

Argue what? That the rule is badly written?

You seem to have misunderstood what is happening here. Nobody in this thread has suggested that people should actually play this way. The discussion is just on a rule that has been badly written in such a way as to cause a rather unexpected result.

What is next? A person arguing a farseer attached to a guardian unit not being able to manifest more than one power??

Fairly sure we've already had that one. The results are still inconclusive, as the rules detailing just what makes up a 'Psyker Unit' are rather vague.

We already had the stupidity of "no eyes" or FMC's and smash/relentless, must we repeat that?.

Until GW start applying a little more effort to proof-reading their rules, yes, we absolutely should point out every incidence of them getting it wrong. Because that's the only way that anything has any (admittedly slim) chance of getting fixed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:
As I cited, the line about being unable to move after deployed is not talking about drop pods. They are talking about units that are immobile and able to be deployed normally. .

That might have been the intent, but the language used is all inclusive. It's not just talking about units that are deployed 'normally' because no such reference is made.

I have to disagree with anyone interpreting this as a RAW argument that pods would be destroyed via this rule.

Preparing Reserves - Players can choose not to deploy some of their units keeping them in reserves (check, no problem - pods go into reserves automatically)

In addition, if it is impossible to deploy a unit .. must be placed in reserve <- does not apply as the unit has already been placed in reserve via the Drop Pod rules.

The only exception to this are units that cannot move after they have been deployed <- Exception to what? To units that cannot be deployed (despite not chosing to place them in reserves) and so you are forced to put it into reserves.

Such units are removed as casualties if it is impossible to deploy them during the Deployment step <- Which units? The units that were forced into reserve because you didn't have room to place them and are unable to move after deployment.

Pods do not meet this criteria as they were already placed in reserves; you did not attempt to deploy them.

I WILL agree the writing is somewhat sloppy, but not nearly as bad as some seem to be making it out to be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
As I cited, the line about being unable to move after deployed is not talking about drop pods. They are talking about units that are immobile and able to be deployed normally. .

That might have been the intent, but the language used is all inclusive. It's not just talking about units that are deployed 'normally' because no such reference is made.

It is talking about a) units that cannot move after they have been deployed that were b) "impossible to deploy" and "must be placed in reserve" (as a result of not being able to be deployed). As you are placing Pods in reserve, not attempting to deploy them, they are not the units that are being discussed in context.

Rorschach9 wrote:

Pods do not meet this criteria as they were already placed in reserves; you did not attempt to deploy them..

So an impossible action isn't impossible if you don't attempt to do it?