Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter

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**Alpharius**

Anyone know how to report a user for not being respectful and courteous in the comments section?

**zreef**

I think you just use their contact forms: https://www.kickstarter.com/help/community with the details. (Its vague)

**Piston Honda**

Alpharius wrote:
Anyone know how to report a user for not being respectful and courteous in the comments section?

I suspect it is the Champion of the comment section and new member of Dakka?

**zreef**

There seems to be so much drama in this kickstarter ... I have been following along, but I am un sure if I want to back it.

Scale is a concern, but not a huge one. It is more of an inconvenience more than anything.

The material is a bit less of a concern for me as they do have a track record of producing nice stuff, though not at this scale.

What bothers me is the rules. I am OK with WIP rules, but I am not sure what this is bringing to the table.

The art direction is pretty good, but nothing "jumps" at me. Everything is very high quality, no doubt, but nothing "pops".

**Alpharius**

I'm less concerned about rules than miniature materials.

Rules can be tweaked, revised, playtested and then sent out as PDFs.

There's a whole lot of HIPs models being promised here, for what many experts say doesn't seem to be sufficient funds.

BUt who knows who else Scale Games as in on this, or what other funds they have access to.

They've said HIPs, so HIPs it is!

**Jehan-reznor**

We'll just have to wait and see, i hope somewhere down the line they will have some test-casts to show it really is Hips.

OMG this thread is full HIPsters!

**zreef**

Alpharius wrote:
I'm less concerned about rules than miniature materials.

Rules can be tweaked, revised, playtested and then sent out as PDFs.

There's a whole lot of HIPs models being promised here, for what many experts say doesn't seem to be sufficient funds.

BUt who knows who else Scale Games as in on this, or what other funds they have access to.

They've said HIPs, so HIPs it is!

Ha! I would say that models can be remade (though of course not the ones you purchase, but in general 2nd batch can be made from better materials once the initial game makes enough $$s).

we see the world from different perspectives.

**Yonan**

I remember Mark from Dreamforge Games went into the costs for HIPS a while back and yeah, it doesn't cover the costs so far. IIRC it was in regards to a successful kickstarter that tried to shift blame to the manufacturer when things went south, but Mark was confident it was just that the KS didn't budget enough funds to cover all the costs. Seeing things like that go down make us backers antsy when things aren't 100% above board, clear, and with evidence of a well thought out business plan covering all stages of production from the beginning. This company being uncertain of the material going into the KS means they didn't have a plan. That's a big warning sign.

**plastictrees**

Jehan-reznor wrote:
We'll just have to wait and see, i hope somewhere down the line they will have some test-casts to show it really is Hips.

OMG this thread is full HIPsters!

There's no way that's happening during the KS though if they only just confirmed that they are going that route.

Just took a look at the KS comments section. Bizarre.

**Piston Honda**

Read the comments and I am shocked!

Alp, I had no idea you were a kickstarter Super Villain!

For shame!

**basement.dweller**

There is a reason I follow KSs on dakka rather than KS. There is more information here. You will get drama everywhere, but you don't get spawncamped by misguided supporters here... i thought we all wanted the same thing anyway - for this to be as good as it can.

**frozenwastes**

If the Ares troopers really end up being in styrene, I will probably get a set as a basis for some "tru-scale" power armour troopers for skirmish gaming with whatever rules I feel like. With styrene, I'll be able to manage weapon swaps, shave down boob plates and remove the hip wings very, very easily.

Once the backers start receiving theirs and they turn out to be good actually made out of styrene, I'll get them.

**Alpharius**

Piston Honda wrote:
Read the comments and I am shocked!

Alp, I had no idea you were a kickstarter Super Villain!

For shame!

I've got the "Insidious Mastermind" trait.

According to Forge World!

basement.dweller wrote:
There is a reason I follow KSs on dakka rather than KS. There is more information here. You will get drama everywhere, but you don't get spawncamped by misguided supporters here... i thought we all wanted the same thing anyway - for this to be as good as it can.

"spawncamped by misguided supporters" is a funny way of describing that particular phenomenon!

All kidding aside, they've said HIPs, so this one should start to gain a lot of momentum as more stretch goals are hit and freebies are unlocked.

**insaniak**

zreef wrote:
Ha! I would say that models can be remade (though of course not the ones you purchase,....

Which is kind of the point, when we're talking about buying models.

**Yonan**

Alpharius wrote:
I've got the "Insidious Mastermind" trait.

Sherriff Alpha the Insidious Mastermind.

**scadianforlife**

Alpharius wrote:
Piston Honda wrote:
Read the comments and I am shocked!

Alp, I had no idea you were a kickstarter Super Villain!

For shame!

I've got the "Insidious Mastermind" trait.

According to Forge World!

basement.dweller wrote:
There is a reason I follow KSs on dakka rather than KS. There is more information here. You will get drama everywhere, but you don't get spawncamped by misguided supporters here... i thought we all wanted the same thing anyway - for this to be as good as it can.

"spawncamped by misguided supporters" is a funny way of describing that particular phenomenon!

All kidding aside, they've said HIPs, so this one should start to gain a lot of momentum as more stretch goals are hit and freebies are unlocked.

So now that is somewhat diffused, why don't you guys join i. the conversation over there. The more ideas, the better, right?

**Alpharius**

Especially since the main offender has pledged to not post in them anymore.

It should free up some room for actual discussion, though to be honest, KS Comments Pages are not really the best place for that.

The format is horrible, and the lack of moderation leads to some fairly impressive messes too.

**zreef**

insaniak wrote:
zreef wrote:
Ha! I would say that models can be remade (though of course not the ones you purchase,....

Which is kind of the point, when we're talking about buying models.

Now that is a matter of perspective! I am backing a company I want to succeed and in return getting some models. For me its more important that the company succeeds than the models I receive. I do, however, have limited financial capabilities to take such risks, so I am picky with what companies I want to back. I treat kickstarter basically as an investment. That investment can pay off in two ways: 1) I get a good game and 2) I get good miniatures. It may not pay off in both regards. Just my personal thoughts on the matter.

**Nostromodamus**

The current situation is an impressive mess

This has to be the "most often looked at but not backed" KS in my entire KS history. It's hilarious!

**Yonan**

Alpharius wrote:
It should free up some room for actual discussion, though to be honest, KS Comments Pages are not really the best place for that.

The format is horrible, and the lack of moderation leads to some fairly impressive messes too.

This is why I exclusively discuss Kickstarters here. The moderators (/hug) take the majority of the edge off whilst still allowing for frank discussion. Can get heated ofc, but it's a tough line to draw between too much and not enough moderation. Dakka mods toe it pretty well.

edit: Just read the sheriffs discussion on the KS comments. Clear and concise, polite as always. I shouldn't have strayed from Dakka, I need to go to r/aww or the dakka gallery for some eye bleach.

**Artemis Black**

MiniaturesInColor wrote:
Someone hand me my pop corn and a bladder buster cola.. this topic is fun to watch. But let me give you something to regurgitate on in the spirit of conversation and all.

Like I said on the KS Page, some people just like to be negative, they get enjoyment from being sad and pathetic, and they must have company, you know being miserable and all. They will cast doubt, make wild unfounded claims, question every decision, and pray for failure so they can gloat and say I told you so, and act smug as if they knew it all along. If you don't believe in the product or company then go support one you do, why bother gaking on someone else's parade? Oh that's right looking for company... sorry my bad. I guess we have to live with the trolls and banshees screaming all night long about how this or that is the suck.

I happen to be the guy who has spoken to them in email, I am the guy who set them up with Wargames Factory, they had another supplier before hand but wanted to see what other options were out there, so I hooked them up with someone I chat with on Linkedin at Wargames Factory. If they say they are using HIPS to cast their miniatures then I am going to believe them until they give me reason not to. Scale75 makes outstanding miniatures, Scale Games is part of that company so where will this extra funding come from.. most likely the parent company. Is Wargames Factory their supplier, don't know, don't care, I am sure that Scale Games will deliver with whom ever the use to cast their miniatures.

So I guess I will get off my and go back to my chair now and watch as I get attacked, ripped at, called names and all that great stuff I have come to expect from game forums now.. so have at it.

So just to clarify. You don't know anything about anything to do with this Kickstarter other than you gave someone at Scale75 the email of Wargames Factory. It doesn't exactly increase confidence if you're suggesting that a company wanting to create plastic wargaming miniatures wasn't already aware of one of the major plastics manufacturers in our industry until a random net denizen hooked them up

Also Scale75 is not some huge multi million pound parent company of Scale Games. Scale Games is just a shell UK-based company that allows Scale75 to use Kickstarter UK. It has no presence in the world other than a po box in London. Scale75 are running this Kickstarter and selling paints and some large scale minis doesn't give you enough bankroll to cover something like this.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:
You might be right.

It is a shame too, because I like the look of the miniatures we've seen so far - which I guess are 'resin masters'?

The minis on show are 3d prints. That's why they look 'fuzzy' when you see close ups, even after being painted.

They'll have been printed direct from the digital files in one piece.

(You can clean them up and use them to make masters, resin or otherwise, but it takes some work and as we've only seen one mini in duplicate my guess is all those on show are 3d prints. The unpainted Sihlas Fenn definitely is. It could also explain why the two human guys look different quality, you can use different 3d printers to get better resolution prints)

**baritowned**

Dumb question, is HIPS more or less restic? I can't keep the technical terms of the various plastics straight.

**Cyporiean**

baritowned wrote:
Dumb question, is HIPS more or less restic? I can't keep the technical terms of the various plastics straight.

No. HIPS = High Impact Polysytrene.

Restic is a marketing buzzword for PVC.

PVC is what Reaper Bones, Privateer Press, and Mantic's Deadzone/Dreadball use. Polysytrene is what GW and WargamesFactory use.

**zreef**

Does anyone know what the bolt action plastics are made out of? The hanomag seems like it might be PVC, but it is easier to work with than the PP PVC. The infantry sprues seem like HIPS, but I am not sure as all my bolt action infantry is metal

**Cyporiean**

zreef wrote:
Does anyone know what the bolt action plastics are made out of? The hanomag seems like it might be PVC, but it is easier to work with than the PP PVC. The infantry sprues seem like HIPS, but I am not sure as all my bolt action infantry is metal

I'm not 100% familiar with all of BA's models, but the infantry is Polysytrene (Rendra produced) and the tanks I've seen are all polyurethane ('Resin').

**zreef**

BA has a new line of "plastic" troop carriers, the hanomag 251 C was the first. Its softer than their infantry sprues (going on recollection here, so I maybe off), but it is harder than PPs plastic.

**frozenwastes**

zreef wrote:Does anyone know what the bolt action plastics are made out of? The hanomag seems like it might be PVC, but it is easier to work with than the PP PVC. The infantry sprues seem like HIPS, but I am not sure as all my bolt action infantry is metal

It's a type of styrene found more often in scale model manufacturing (they are partnering with Italeri after all) than in miniature wargaming. They also have resin kits.

**Mymearan**

Even if they sort out the material, I'm more concerned about the rules at this point... the beta sheet is poorly written and seems thrown together in an afternoon. They also seem to be pretty poor when it comes to communicating in English. Who is writing the rules? Are they planning to have them translated by a professional?

**weeble1000**

paulson games wrote:
Maybe they are planning on using Panda like Ninja Division has been for their Robotech Plastics, which of course has gone swimmingly well.

I haven't been following Robotech. Are you being sarcastic Jon? PGM is a popular Chinese manufacturing liaison, so I am curious.

**Vertrucio**

He's being sarcastic. Always hard to tell on the internet, but suffice to say the Robotech project has a whole has had plenty of problems.

And this is why I want to have my miniature production done in a country with labor laws and a legal system that doesn't revolve around bribes.