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Hi,

With the new FAQ we have lost our powers, and the null bubble. What do You think - where the Wolves stand with the 7th?

gausus wrote:
Hi,

With the new FAQ we have lost our powers, and the null bubble. What do You think - where the Wolves stand with the 7th?

Near Rock bottom, at least in what regards to imperials. The only thing that is worth it right now are The Hunters and The Long Fangs. Every thing else is done better and many times cheaper in other marine codexes.

About time. That deny stick was annoying as gak.

It's a bit funny, when other armies players complain about JAWS or Null Bubble. Yet, each of their armies has a ton of equally powerfull stuff.

I have once played a tau player with 4 Riptides. The guy kept whining how much JAWS is OP and has no fluff.

And as for playing - i believe that we have to wait till the new codex arrives. And in the meantime ally with Guard or Inquisition. But that sucks a bit,

i do believe (hope!) that the powers will return in the new Codex with warp charges and such, and hopefully a properly costed rune priest to make up for this.

Right now what I'm trying is drop pod hunters with razorback long fangs very traditional so far, but then add rune priests on bikes with biomancy in a pack of fenrisian wolves to go character hunting, has worked so far

You do realize space puppies are king at close combat?
And that they still have the best psykers in the game?
And that biomancy is a unit power?
And that a bunch of fnp, t7, s7, 3+ power armor wearing, counter attacking, character pimping, dual cc weapon wielding space puppies can hang in this edition?

How is Biomancy a unit power for +3 + 3?

 sfshilo wrote:
You do realize space puppies are king at close combat?

No, Hunters have 1 more attack that regular marines, dedicated assault units are cheaper on other codexes. Aka hammernators and so on... Also it so happens 7th is still a shooting edition, which diminishes assaults importance. Not to mention GK have power weapons and add psi dice.

 sfshilo wrote:

And that they still have the best psykers in the game?

No, librarians are cheaper and 1 lvl higher for the same price, not to mentioned they can be kitted better by means of Storm Shields. Tigurius is arguably the best imperial caster.

 sfshilo wrote:

And that biomancy is a unit power?

Matters little, read above.

 sfshilo wrote:

And that a bunch of fnp, t7, s7, 3+ power armor wearing, counter attacking, character pimping, dual cc weapon wielding space puppies can hang in this edition?

Marines can make equally destructive HQs cheaper of for the same points.

Drop pods should work in the 7th. Loganwing should also be ok. But that is it. And comparing to other armies - we are infirior in every aspect.

Just spam Lone Wolves, and then watch as your opponent spends the entire game running away so he doesn't have to kill them .

gausus wrote:
It's a bit funny, when other armies players complain about JAWS or Null Bubble. Yet, each of their armies has a ton of equally powerfull stuff.

What is my army's equally powerful stuff ?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

gausus wrote:
It's a bit funny, when other armies players complain about JAWS or Null Bubble. Yet, each of their armies has a ton of equally powerfull stuff.

What is my army's equally powerful stuff ?

...Imperial Knights allies?

I kid of course, and don't agree with the originally quoted poster. Jaws was always stupidly broken, and the null bubble became even more crazy when GW didn't bother to FAQ it out in 6th ed. Both had to go, and this is coming from a long-time Space Wolf player. Of course, we're screwed now at the moment, but we just need some point reductions and new shinies.

You are right. Cheaper Blood Claws would be awesome.

As for Jaws - yes, they were powerfull. But, there is a ton of equally powerfull stuff - Immotek and he's special rules for example

gausus wrote:
As for Jaws - yes, they were powerfull. But, there is a ton of equally powerfull stuff - Immotek and he's special rules for example

I would not be against seeing all of them reigned back, though. Our own “super-powerful” stuff was hit violently with the nerf bat, and can only come back to life once now. And only maybe. It still has T3 and no Eternal warrior .

I'd not be suprised to see space wolves with a new codex by the new year

I was thinking about using biomancy with rune priest.
4 x RP (ML2) is only 500 pts. But still rolling biomancy spell is a gamble. Only Iron Arm and Warp Speed are useful.

Even in 5th edition, Space Wolves weren't "king of close combat". lol

People need to calm down. Being "better than tactical marines" isn't nearly as impressive a feat as people seem to think it is.

Space wolves got a bonus with counterattack, no roll is needed now so its guaranteed.

Rune priests second mastery level got 50% cheaper.

Divination rune priests got better, knowing the primaris AND one/two other powers

The Deny the witch/or wolf tail talisman restriction has been removed, so you get both now.

The new battle brothers rules have helped as well. I still have to try it but i want to rock an AM priest in a LR crusader with wolf guard terminators, for a re-rollable 2+/3++ with storm shields.

So they have lost some stuff, but gained in the process. And as said the new code should be out soon (fingers crossed)

Yeah, if you want to stay viable at this point in the SW Codex's life cycle, you're going to have to ally in the cheaper options around a core of Grey Hunters. Hell, even Rune Priests and Long Fangs are pretty much optional now.

DOOMONYOU wrote:
The new battle brothers rules have helped as well. I still have to try it but i want to rock an AM priest in a LR crusader with wolf guard terminators, for a re-rollable 2+/3++ with storm shields.

Ecclesiarchy members and space wolves working hand in hand, so fluffy!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

DOOMONYOU wrote:
The new battle brothers rules have helped as well. I still have to try it but i want to rock an AM priest in a LR crusader with wolf guard terminators, for a re-rollable 2+/3++ with storm shields.

Ecclesiarchy members and space wolves working hand in hand, so fluffy!

It is if he is modelled up as a Skald, from a force of Aett guard. The fact he is there recording their sagas means they will fight harder. So yeah, that fits.

I

DOOMONYOU wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

DOOMONYOU wrote:
The new battle brothers rules have helped as well. I still have to try it but i want to rock an AM priest in a LR crusader with wolf guard terminators, for a re-rollable 2+/3++ with storm shields.

Ecclesiarchy members and space wolves working hand in hand, so fluffy!

It is if he is modelled up as a Skald, from a force of Aett guard. The fact he is there recording their sagas means they will fight harder. So yeah, that fits.

Epic idea. I love it. Thanks for the inspiration.

 sfshilo wrote:
You do realize space puppies are king at close combat?
And that they still have the best psykers in the game?
And that biomancy is a unit power?
And that a bunch of fnp, t7, s7, 3+ power armor wearing, counter attacking, character pimping, dual cc weapon wielding space puppies can hang in this edition?

Everything you just said is wrong. Space Wolves lose in Close Combat against Close Combat armies. Wolf Lords cost more and deal less damage thanChapter Masters. Thunderwolves cost more and suck more than wraiths. Grey Hunters are great, but they still lose to dedicated CC.
Other than having access to Divination, a now-average table, name a single way that Rune Priests are better than any other Marine Psyker from Dark Angels or Space Marines. We cost more, and while we get +1 to our DTW, nobody has a Psychic hood. We're paying a premium and getting feth-all in return.
What the heck does 'Biomancy is a unit power' mean? Most Biomancy powers are model-specific, excluding one or two.

WHY do you think we have S7 OR T7. We have neither. We have pretty much no FNP. Counter Attack only gets you so far. We only have a 4+ Invuln if we dual-weild. Why? Are you trolling or what?

Jaws was fine. It just took all of the facade of umpteem re-rollable 2+ dice that Tau Riptides make and just brought it all down to one roll instead.

5th Ed SW book towards the end of 6th had 3 maybe 4 usable units in it.

Now it has 2 maybe 3. RIP in peace Rune Priest. 100pts for 1 roll on Divination. Awesome stuff!

Roll on the new book hopefully before Christmas.

At the end of the 6th the only usable units were:
- Grey Hunters (drop pod, standard)
- Lone Wolf (TDA, CF, SS)
- Wolf Guard with Combi Plasma and Wolf priest

No we are a bit screwed

gausus wrote:
At the end of the 6th the only usable units were:
- Grey Hunters (drop pod, standard)
- Lone Wolf (TDA, CF, SS)
- Wolf Guard with Combi Plasma and Wolf priest

No we are a bit screwed

I think it has dwindled down to just grey hunters now. Long fangs have been toast for a while now also. Before the 7th ed faqs I was looking at SW and SM, and using grey hunters and rune priests, but now that's not even an option lol. I do have to wonder why GW took the codex powers so early in 7ths release unless they felt we were over powered with the new psy phase or they are giving us our book soon.

Those powers kept our army somewhat competitive..not sure what to call it now.

Kal-El wrote:

gausus wrote:
At the end of the 6th the only usable units were:
- Grey Hunters (drop pod, standard)
- Lone Wolf (TDA, CF, SS)
- Wolf Guard with Combi Plasma and Wolf priest

No we are a bit screwed

I think it has dwindled down to just grey hunters now. Long fangs have been toast for a while now also. Before the 7th ed faqs I was looking at SW and SM, and using grey hunters and rune priests, but now that's not even an option lol. I do have to wonder why GW took the codex powers so early in 7ths release unless they felt we were over powered with the new psy phase or they are giving us our book soon.

Those powers kept our army somewhat competitive..not sure what to call it now.

Grey Hunters aren't awful, but they're no free lunch and haven't been for two editions now. Since the dawn of Helldrake, they've been fighting an uphill battle. Better than Tactical Marines? Sure, in the right context. But nobody uses Tactical Marines in competitive play.
Space Wolves aren't as bad off as Blood Angels, but right now I'd mark them down as the second worst codex. (Maybe third if you count Sisters of Battle, but they're a decent army with no AA and limited options, Space Wolves just don't have anything.)
I'd agree that Long Fangs are no good anymore. Missile Launchers just aren't that great anymore, and all their other weapons can be taken for cheaper by other armies. With Prescience they were able to hold on in my 6th edition lists, but Prescience is a lot harder to get now.

Waaaghpower wrote:
Prescience is a lot harder to get now.

????
Do you mean Cast?

 Anpu42 wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Prescience is a lot harder to get now.

????
Do you mean Cast?

By get, I meant get onto your Long Fangs. Cast works a lot better and is more clear, shoulda said cast. Oh well.
We once had about a 11/12th chance of casting the power with a stock Rune Priest. Now, assuming that you roll a 6 for number of Warp Charges and pump them all into the spell, (Which is ideal circumstances,) you still have less odds to use the power. (Can someone help me out on the math here? It feels like it should be about a 2/3rds chance of casting the power successfully, somewhere between 60-80%, but that's just an estimate. My math gets hazy somewhere between calculating the odds of getting 4+s on 7 dice and calculating for DTW.)
Under less-than-ideal circumstances, you're at maybe a 50/50 chance of casting the power. If your enemy has lots of Psykers (For example, a Daemon army), then your chances of getting the power off round down to almost nil. Psychic support is no longer a reliable way to boost Long Fangs into useability.

1) Grey Hunters in Rhino Bunkers parking on Objectives. Firing two Plasma or Melta guns out the top hatch - Its almost like its 5th edition again, except your rhino's die easier.

2) Runic Armor on Rune Priests makes them better in close combat against librarians.

3) You still get 4 HQ in a Combined Arms Detachment.

4) Grey Hunter Drop Pods are now scoring (and Objective Secured in battleforged)

5) Mastery level 2 psyker got FAQ'd to be cheaper.

6) Longfangs in the back field are now scoring and their heavy weapons are more important if more vehicles are back on the field.

7) Thunderwolf Cav are still strong

8) Kitted out Wolf Lord is better than most special characters.

9) Counterattack is 'always on'

10) Benefit from super relaxed uber Battle Bro's Allies chart. You can now take Storm Ravens as alies and put your wolf guard in it.

Overall in 7th,, Spacewolves favor an agressive play style, and are strong in close combat against everything except a dedicated close combat squad.

Hide in the rhino on the objective until the rhino pops, then hop out and accept the charge.