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So, the grey knight chapter was founded at the time of the horus heresy, hiden and then they reappeared. Well then the legions had an immense amount of weapons like jet bikes and stuff wich later they where lost or abandoded. My question is why they dont have any of these?

They weren't given any.

Why? where they to lazy or to dumb to deal with that advanced weaponry?

 bloodoffi wrote:
Why? where they to lazy or to dumb to deal with that advanced weaponry?

No.

The Horus Heresy was happening, and thus they had need of that equipment, rather than being able to just put it away.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 bloodoffi wrote:
Why? where they to lazy or to dumb to deal with that advanced weaponry?

No.

The Horus Heresy was happening, and thus they had need of that equipment, rather than being able to just put it away.

They also where not a normal legion, in any sense.
They had rather more special requirements

 bloodoffi wrote:
So, the grey knight chapter was founded at the time of the horus heresy, hiden and then they reappeared. Well then the legions had an immense amount of weapons like jet bikes and stuff wich later they where lost or abandoded. My question is why they dont have any of these?

Maybe they did have them once upon a time, but as you say with the Legions, they were then lost or abandoned.

The Grey Knights were a whole different kind of Space Marine than what was seen before. Every single one is a psyker so they were given technology to harness this fact like psybolts (fired out of a storm bolter strapped to their wrist and this is on a non-Terminator too since everyone as a Grey Knight has a storm bolter strapped to their wrist unless packing a heavy weapon), psycannons, psilencers, nemesis force and other things that help to harness the fact that they are all psykers. To me, they have some of the most advanced weaponry that is found in the Imperium that they don't need the weapons of a regular Space Marine Chapter. Their flamers are stronger than any other Space Marine Chapter to which they can upgrade to be even stronger with psyflames.

Why don't they need bikes? Because they use their psychic abilities to teleport into battle making them more mobile than a regular Space Marine so they don't need bikes. If they need a fast transport, they get into a Stormraven and fly off then they teleport out of that too. The Nemesis Dreadknight, which is new technology developed for them because Grey Knights don't like to become Dreadnoughts too often, even gets a personal teleporter.

So with all this fun technology that they have all to themselves, what do you exactly want them to have?

They were given specific wargear for their appointed task.

And hey, maybe they made the practical choice and assumed that they'd still have some of that technology when they came back. "Why would we need to take some unnecessary equipment? We'll just pick it up when we get back!"

Jetbikes were also still pretty darn rare at the time of the Heresy. Not everyone had enough to pass out even a few to each unit.


They still have some impressive advanced weaponry. Psybolts, Psycannons, Dreadknights, all their psychic swag, the Aegis(thats some impressive stuff there), etc...

Who needs a jetbike when you have a teleportarium?

It does bother me that the GK don't have some of the cool Heresy-era stuff, as the Codex does make it clear that Malcador had set them up with the best tech the Imperium had to offer (and they even have an entire Forgeworld/moon, Deimos, all to themselves). Certainly, they should not have all the same stuff as the Legions, as the GK are a different fighting force with different goals and different tactics to pursue those goals. But, with the best stuff possible, they don't even get Contemptor Dreadnoughts? That's the one that bothers me.

In my mind, Contemptor Dreadnoughts are usable by GKs. They just aren't in the fluff and the rule writing didn't coincide/Forge World makes mistakes.

IMO, slap Psychic Pilot and Reinforced Aegis on a Contemptor, replace its DCCWs with Doomfists, increase cost by 5 points and call it good.

Maybe they have but gamesworkshop want to keep it for the next edition

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
It does bother me that the GK don't have some of the cool Heresy-era stuff, as the Codex does make it clear that Malcador had set them up with the best tech the Imperium had to offer (and they even have an entire Forgeworld/moon, Deimos, all to themselves). Certainly, they should not have all the same stuff as the Legions, as the GK are a different fighting force with different goals and different tactics to pursue those goals. But, with the best stuff possible, they don't even get Contemptor Dreadnoughts? That's the one that bothers me.

At the same time, Grey Knights don't exactly like to be put into dreadnoughts. They would rather die and be laid to rest on Titan then live a partial life in a dreadnought so them being placed in dreadnoughts is suppose to be rare in the first place. It's the reason why the Nemesis Dreadknights were developed so that they could have the same capabilities as if they kept dreadnoughts.

 Envihon wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
It does bother me that the GK don't have some of the cool Heresy-era stuff, as the Codex does make it clear that Malcador had set them up with the best tech the Imperium had to offer (and they even have an entire Forgeworld/moon, Deimos, all to themselves). Certainly, they should not have all the same stuff as the Legions, as the GK are a different fighting force with different goals and different tactics to pursue those goals. But, with the best stuff possible, they don't even get Contemptor Dreadnoughts? That's the one that bothers me.

At the same time, Grey Knights don't exactly like to be put into dreadnoughts. They would rather die and be laid to rest on Titan then live a partial life in a dreadnought so them being placed in dreadnoughts is suppose to be rare in the first place. It's the reason why the Nemesis Dreadknights were developed so that they could have the same capabilities as if they kept dreadnoughts.

Wrong. Grey Knights have Dreadnoughts. But you are right that they would rather not live a life for the Imperium and then go insane in their half-lives? Plus, each is a powerful psyker and to go insane with those capabilities is dangerous. So they'd rather die.

Having said that, should they be put in a Dreadnought they will continue with their duties, as Grey Knights.


The Dreadknight was developed for 2 reasons: To combat Greater Daemons head on, in matchups even a Dreadnought, with its failing mind and lumbering body, couldn't handle. The Dreadknight allows a fully mobile, alert and deadly Knight to fight toe to toe/foot/tentacle/hoof with Greater Daemons while losing none of his capabilities.
No. 2 is because GW wanted to sell bog action figure like stuff and charge arms and legs for it.

Yeah I wonder why the opposite hasn't happened. Why don't more chapters have access to the Nemesis dread knight and psykout missiles? The knight would be brilliant against tyranids,who are just as much an existential threat as chaos.

 Silverthorne wrote:
Yeah I wonder why the opposite hasn't happened. Why don't more chapters have access to the Nemesis dread knight and psykout missiles? The knight would be brilliant against tyranids,who are just as much an existential threat as chaos.

Because it is very rare technology and likely takes psychic connection to use properly. Plus, the Tyranids would just adapt like everything else, or send a biotitan to smash it or attack from range or have a Mawloc swallow it, or the Swarmlord finish it, or Deathleaper or Genestealers rip the pilot out. Tyranids are unbeatable in the long run.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
It does bother me that the GK don't have some of the cool Heresy-era stuff, as the Codex does make it clear that Malcador had set them up with the best tech the Imperium had to offer (and they even have an entire Forgeworld/moon, Deimos, all to themselves). Certainly, they should not have all the same stuff as the Legions, as the GK are a different fighting force with different goals and different tactics to pursue those goals. But, with the best stuff possible, they don't even get Contemptor Dreadnoughts? That's the one that bothers me.

At the same time, Grey Knights don't exactly like to be put into dreadnoughts. They would rather die and be laid to rest on Titan then live a partial life in a dreadnought so them being placed in dreadnoughts is suppose to be rare in the first place. It's the reason why the Nemesis Dreadknights were developed so that they could have the same capabilities as if they kept dreadnoughts.

Wrong. Grey Knights have Dreadnoughts. But you are right that they would rather not live a life for the Imperium and then go insane in their half-lives? Plus, each is a powerful psyker and to go insane with those capabilities is dangerous. So they'd rather die.

Having said that, should they be put in a Dreadnought they will continue with their duties, as Grey Knights.


The Dreadknight was developed for 2 reasons: To combat Greater Daemons head on, in matchups even a Dreadnought, with its failing mind and lumbering body, couldn't handle. The Dreadknight allows a fully mobile, alert and deadly Knight to fight toe to toe/foot/tentacle/hoof with Greater Daemons while losing none of his capabilities.
No. 2 is because GW wanted to sell bog action figure like stuff and charge arms and legs for it.

I never said that GK don't have Dreadnoughts, they do but the Codex specifically points out that they are different from other Space Marines in that they prefer not to become Dreadnoughts and thus Dreadnoughts are rare in the GK and only happen when they need the continued leadership from a particular GK. The irony of this situation is that the GK have the best Dreadnoughts in the game with the ability to take Psy ammo on Autocannons making them the most popular Dreadnought in tournaments.

You are right about the DK purpose but the way GW flavored it, the DK was always the GK answer to the Dreadnought. Again the irony but I actually don't know who gets more use in GK armies, Dreadnoughts or DK, probably depends on the army.

 Envihon wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
It does bother me that the GK don't have some of the cool Heresy-era stuff, as the Codex does make it clear that Malcador had set them up with the best tech the Imperium had to offer (and they even have an entire Forgeworld/moon, Deimos, all to themselves). Certainly, they should not have all the same stuff as the Legions, as the GK are a different fighting force with different goals and different tactics to pursue those goals. But, with the best stuff possible, they don't even get Contemptor Dreadnoughts? That's the one that bothers me.

At the same time, Grey Knights don't exactly like to be put into dreadnoughts. They would rather die and be laid to rest on Titan then live a partial life in a dreadnought so them being placed in dreadnoughts is suppose to be rare in the first place. It's the reason why the Nemesis Dreadknights were developed so that they could have the same capabilities as if they kept dreadnoughts.

Wrong. Grey Knights have Dreadnoughts. But you are right that they would rather not live a life for the Imperium and then go insane in their half-lives? Plus, each is a powerful psyker and to go insane with those capabilities is dangerous. So they'd rather die.

Having said that, should they be put in a Dreadnought they will continue with their duties, as Grey Knights.


The Dreadknight was developed for 2 reasons: To combat Greater Daemons head on, in matchups even a Dreadnought, with its failing mind and lumbering body, couldn't handle. The Dreadknight allows a fully mobile, alert and deadly Knight to fight toe to toe/foot/tentacle/hoof with Greater Daemons while losing none of his capabilities.
No. 2 is because GW wanted to sell bog action figure like stuff and charge arms and legs for it.

I never said that GK don't have Dreadnoughts, they do but the Codex specifically points out that they are different from other Space Marines in that they prefer not to become Dreadnoughts and thus Dreadnoughts are rare in the GK and only happen when they need the continued leadership from a particular GK. The irony of this situation is that the GK have the best Dreadnoughts in the game with the ability to take Psy ammo on Autocannons making them the most popular Dreadnought in tournaments.

You are right about the DK purpose but the way GW flavored it, the DK was always the GK answer to the Dreadnought. Again the irony but I actually don't know who gets more use in GK armies, Dreadnoughts or DK, probably depends on the army.

Depends on the edition. In 5th and early 6th Ed, Psyfleman spam was king. In late 6th, Dreadknight, with its 5 Str 10, AP2 force attacks that reroll hits, wounds and armour penetration, Heavy Psycannon and Incinerator, teleporting, 2+/5++, Hammer of Wrath, Fearless, Fear, The Aegis, and could remove Daemonic Gifts, I'd say the GK.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
It does bother me that the GK don't have some of the cool Heresy-era stuff, as the Codex does make it clear that Malcador had set them up with the best tech the Imperium had to offer (and they even have an entire Forgeworld/moon, Deimos, all to themselves). Certainly, they should not have all the same stuff as the Legions, as the GK are a different fighting force with different goals and different tactics to pursue those goals. But, with the best stuff possible, they don't even get Contemptor Dreadnoughts? That's the one that bothers me.

At the same time, Grey Knights don't exactly like to be put into dreadnoughts. They would rather die and be laid to rest on Titan then live a partial life in a dreadnought so them being placed in dreadnoughts is suppose to be rare in the first place. It's the reason why the Nemesis Dreadknights were developed so that they could have the same capabilities as if they kept dreadnoughts.

Wrong. Grey Knights have Dreadnoughts. But you are right that they would rather not live a life for the Imperium and then go insane in their half-lives? Plus, each is a powerful psyker and to go insane with those capabilities is dangerous. So they'd rather die.

Having said that, should they be put in a Dreadnought they will continue with their duties, as Grey Knights.


The Dreadknight was developed for 2 reasons: To combat Greater Daemons head on, in matchups even a Dreadnought, with its failing mind and lumbering body, couldn't handle. The Dreadknight allows a fully mobile, alert and deadly Knight to fight toe to toe/foot/tentacle/hoof with Greater Daemons while losing none of his capabilities.
No. 2 is because GW wanted to sell bog action figure like stuff and charge arms and legs for it.

I never said that GK don't have Dreadnoughts, they do but the Codex specifically points out that they are different from other Space Marines in that they prefer not to become Dreadnoughts and thus Dreadnoughts are rare in the GK and only happen when they need the continued leadership from a particular GK. The irony of this situation is that the GK have the best Dreadnoughts in the game with the ability to take Psy ammo on Autocannons making them the most popular Dreadnought in tournaments.

You are right about the DK purpose but the way GW flavored it, the DK was always the GK answer to the Dreadnought. Again the irony but I actually don't know who gets more use in GK armies, Dreadnoughts or DK, probably depends on the army.

Depends on the edition. In 5th and early 6th Ed, Psyfleman spam was king. In late 6th, Dreadknight, with its 5 Str 10, AP2 force attacks that reroll hits, wounds and armour penetration, Heavy Psycannon and Incinerator, teleporting, 2+/5++, Hammer of Wrath, Fearless, Fear, The Aegis, and could remove Daemonic Gifts, I'd say the GK.

haha, it is funny you should say that because I am about to boot my dreadnought out of my army to get a second Dreadknight in. I just really like Dreadnoughts and I hate to not use him anymore but I also really like the DK and I am tired of that tiny chink in my shunting army that could be filled to create wins.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Yeah I wonder why the opposite hasn't happened. Why don't more chapters have access to the Nemesis dread knight and psykout missiles? The knight would be brilliant against tyranids,who are just as much an existential threat as chaos.

Because it is very rare technology and likely takes psychic connection to use properly. Plus, the Tyranids would just adapt like everything else, or send a biotitan to smash it or attack from range or have a Mawloc swallow it, or the Swarmlord finish it, or Deathleaper or Genestealers rip the pilot out. Tyranids are unbeatable in the long run.

Not really. While they are very adaptive, there are limitations.

The Dreadknight is specifically designed to kill large creatures. It banishes greater daemons without breaking a sweat. Tyranid creations would be a cake walk.

Tyranids can adapt, but if the Hive Mind doesn't garner enough information about the threat it can't counter. Also if a fleet is destroyed any advantages it evolved will be lost, the Hive Mind seems to have communication problems with itself over long distances. It is intelligent, but at the same time it is still very primal in its reasoning and logic.

Anyway, the real reason is as you mentioned the fact its very rare technology that is needed for countering daemons.

btw, Psycannons shoot the emperor's waste. poop.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
btw, Psycannons shoot the emperor's waste. poop.

Nope.

They shoot waste that the golden throne produces. Could be ectoplasm or something.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Yeah I wonder why the opposite hasn't happened. Why don't more chapters have access to the Nemesis dread knight and psykout missiles? The knight would be brilliant against tyranids,who are just as much an existential threat as chaos.

Because it is very rare technology and likely takes psychic connection to use properly. Plus, the Tyranids would just adapt like everything else, or send a biotitan to smash it or attack from range or have a Mawloc swallow it, or the Swarmlord finish it, or Deathleaper or Genestealers rip the pilot out. Tyranids are unbeatable in the long run.

Not really. While they are very adaptive, there are limitations.

The Dreadknight is specifically designed to kill large creatures. It banishes greater daemons without breaking a sweat. Tyranid creations would be a cake walk.

Tyranids can adapt, but if the Hive Mind doesn't garner enough information about the threat it can't counter. Also if a fleet is destroyed any advantages it evolved will be lost, the Hive Mind seems to have communication problems with itself over long distances. It is intelligent, but at the same time it is still very primal in its reasoning and logic.

Anyway, the real reason is as you mentioned the fact its very rare technology that is needed for countering daemons.

There is no reason to believe the Dreadknight is going to defeat the invasion. All it takes is a minor altering of tactics. A biotitan will demolish the Dreadknight. The giant Super-Trygon that destroyed an entire Titan Legio from Hive Fleet Jormungandr, will easily defeat the Dreadknight.

In the latest Nid codex it talks about a whole brotherhood of Grey Knights defending a major possible warp-incursion, supported by 2 DK. Every one of them was slain and eaten and then the Nids beat the Daemon Legions that rose up from the portal, including each of the Greater Daemons, despite having no biomass to obtain from them, instead seeing them as a rival Super-Predator. And it worked both ways. The Nids countered every plague sent forth by Nurgle, and used not the warp but the Hive Min so didn't fuel Tzeentchian Daemons. They took no pleasure and had no blood to spill for Slaanesh and Khorne.

The Nids are fundamentally unbeatable.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Yeah I wonder why the opposite hasn't happened. Why don't more chapters have access to the Nemesis dread knight and psykout missiles? The knight would be brilliant against tyranids,who are just as much an existential threat as chaos.

Because it is very rare technology and likely takes psychic connection to use properly. Plus, the Tyranids would just adapt like everything else, or send a biotitan to smash it or attack from range or have a Mawloc swallow it, or the Swarmlord finish it, or Deathleaper or Genestealers rip the pilot out. Tyranids are unbeatable in the long run.

Not really. While they are very adaptive, there are limitations.

The Dreadknight is specifically designed to kill large creatures. It banishes greater daemons without breaking a sweat. Tyranid creations would be a cake walk.

Tyranids can adapt, but if the Hive Mind doesn't garner enough information about the threat it can't counter. Also if a fleet is destroyed any advantages it evolved will be lost, the Hive Mind seems to have communication problems with itself over long distances. It is intelligent, but at the same time it is still very primal in its reasoning and logic.

Anyway, the real reason is as you mentioned the fact its very rare technology that is needed for countering daemons.

There is no reason to believe the Dreadknight is going to defeat the invasion. All it takes is a minor altering of tactics. A biotitan will demolish the Dreadknight. The giant Super-Trygon that destroyed an entire Titan Legio from Hive Fleet Jormungandr, will easily defeat the Dreadknight.

In the latest Nid codex it talks about a whole brotherhood of Grey Knights defending a major possible warp-incursion, supported by 2 DK. Every one of them was slain and eaten and then the Nids beat the Daemon Legions that rose up from the portal, including each of the Greater Daemons, despite having no biomass to obtain from them, instead seeing them as a rival Super-Predator. And it worked both ways. The Nids countered every plague sent forth by Nurgle, and used not the warp but the Hive Min so didn't fuel Tzeentchian Daemons. They took no pleasure and had no blood to spill for Slaanesh and Khorne.

The Nids are fundamentally unbeatable.

I always don't like when someone says that one race/faction is unbeatable. Tough, intimidating and hard to defeat but I don't think any force in 40k is completely able to over take everyone else because it would have happened by now. The Necrons at full force could take over the Galaxy but their ways into the webway were destroyed by the Eldar and a lot of the Tomb Worlds were prematurely destroyed or got damaged in some away affecting the Necrons mobility and strength. Chaos has it's weaknesses otherwise the Tyranids woudn't be able to cut them from the warp or the Grey Knights being able to become the antithesis of Chaos. The Tyranids are highly dependent on the warp and their mutations, affect anyone of these and it has been shown that they can be defeated. I don't think anything will ever snuff out any other and they always will be around but they are invincible. Otherwise, this epic stalemate of a game that we like to play wouldn't exist.

The Tyranids are unbeatable because they will always have reinforcements (due to consuming the bodies of their own dead to respawn them and foes to get new bio-data). They are shown to be fundamentally capable of adapting to any and all foes, including the Imperium's best (Grey Knights) and Daemons, and winning. Doesn't matter what you throw at them, unless you destroy a massive percentage in one go, you can't win. Examples being Battle for Maccrage, where a ship detonated its Warp Drives and destroyed most of the Nid fleet. Tarsis Ultra, where a plague delivered to the Norn Queen destroyed the creatures from birth.
Note that all major defeats of the Tyranids involves large amounts of Deus Ex Machina. Hopefully I used the term correctly, to mean a previously unmentioned plot point that suddenly turns the tide in favour of the protagonists out of the blue.

 Deadshot wrote:
The Tyranids are unbeatable because they will always have reinforcements (due to consuming the bodies of their own dead to respawn them and foes to get new bio-data)

Only if the nids were already winning(and thus being able to consume the dead)

Can't consume the dead if you are being beaten back.

Thats not really an advantage in this case. more of a minor perk.


Yes, the nids are a massive threat. But not any more than the myriad other threats are to the Imperium. Get in line.

 Deadshot wrote:
The Tyranids are unbeatable because they will always have reinforcements (due to consuming the bodies of their own dead to respawn them and foes to get new bio-data). They are shown to be fundamentally capable of adapting to any and all foes, including the Imperium's best (Grey Knights) and Daemons, and winning. Doesn't matter what you throw at them, unless you destroy a massive percentage in one go, you can't win. Examples being Battle for Maccrage, where a ship detonated its Warp Drives and destroyed most of the Nid fleet. Tarsis Ultra, where a plague delivered to the Norn Queen destroyed the creatures from birth.
Note that all major defeats of the Tyranids involves large amounts of Deus Ex Machina. Hopefully I used the term correctly, to mean a previously unmentioned plot point that suddenly turns the tide in favour of the protagonists out of the blue.

Dawn of War 2 disagrees with this since the Blood Ravens used a methodical approach to destroying the Tyranids that threatened their homeworlds that used the Tyranids benefits to destroy them.

On-topic and ignoring the building "The Dreadknight can punch all the Tyranids" "Oh no it can't" "Oh yes it can" debate;

Don't think of them as a Legion, a Chapter, or anything else. They're a fighting force that happens to be comprised of Astartes. Besides, bikes of either variety are hardly the best tools to fight daemons with.

That said, I'd love to see them with volkite culverins.