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Forfieture of all pay

 trexmeyer wrote:
You're really not familiar with the live prisoners issue?

I don't know of any credible evidence to support the assertion that POWs were left in Vietnamese captivity after the war was over. It's been investigated multiple times.

 Bromsy wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Bromsy wrote:


That he was promoted to Sgt in absentia is mind blowing, and if in fact anyone else died searching for or trying to rescue him.......

It's Army SOP (probably DoD) to promote to SGT anyone who becomes a POW (assuming they arent a SGT or higher already)... The thing that brings some question marks to me is that I've read some stuff recently saying that his unit/the army hadn't ever officially declared him a POW?? If that's true, that should raise a few eyebrows.

You aren't automatically promoted to SGT...

POW benefits
Promotions: POW personnel continue to be considered for promotion along with their contemporaries. Policy provides for each missing or captured officer/enlisted member to be considered for promotion to the next higher grade when they are eligible. The eligibility for officers is based on the date of rank in their current grade. For enlisted members, eligibility is based on time in grade and time in service.

MIA benefits
Promotions: MIA personnel continue to be considered for promotion along with their contemporaries. Policy provides for each missing or captured officer/enlisted member to be considered for promotion to the next higher grade when they are eligible. The eligibility for officers is based on the date of rank in their current grade. For enlisted members, eligibility is based on time in grade and time in service.

I find it mind blowing since there were apparently pentagon reports as early as 2010 finding that he was most likely a deserter.

Wouldn't a suspected deserter still be a full member of the armed forces until he has actually been court marshaled and then discharged? Can you do that when the person is not present?

 d-usa wrote:

 Bromsy wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Bromsy wrote:


That he was promoted to Sgt in absentia is mind blowing, and if in fact anyone else died searching for or trying to rescue him.......

It's Army SOP (probably DoD) to promote to SGT anyone who becomes a POW (assuming they arent a SGT or higher already)... The thing that brings some question marks to me is that I've read some stuff recently saying that his unit/the army hadn't ever officially declared him a POW?? If that's true, that should raise a few eyebrows.

You aren't automatically promoted to SGT...

POW benefits
Promotions: POW personnel continue to be considered for promotion along with their contemporaries. Policy provides for each missing or captured officer/enlisted member to be considered for promotion to the next higher grade when they are eligible. The eligibility for officers is based on the date of rank in their current grade. For enlisted members, eligibility is based on time in grade and time in service.

MIA benefits
Promotions: MIA personnel continue to be considered for promotion along with their contemporaries. Policy provides for each missing or captured officer/enlisted member to be considered for promotion to the next higher grade when they are eligible. The eligibility for officers is based on the date of rank in their current grade. For enlisted members, eligibility is based on time in grade and time in service.

I find it mind blowing since there were apparently pentagon reports as early as 2010 finding that he was most likely a deserter.

Wouldn't a suspected deserter still be a full member of the armed forces until he has actually been court marshaled and then discharged? Can you do that when the person is not present?

SGT isn't an automatic promotion... so ... don't promote them? I mean, if nothing else he hasn't passed an APFT in the required window to be considered for promotion since he deserted as a PFC. I get that it's done as a goodwill thing so is probably all but automatic, but come on.

I wasn't even thinking about the promotion, just the "still a soldier even if he deserted" thing.

No. All legal, personnel, and financial actions go on hold as soon as the individual is declared AWOL. Which is like 24 hrs after he is reported missing. If he did it in the US then no efforts would have been made to locate him till he gets pop by LEO for whatever infraction that gets their attention. Then he is held and turned over to a MP unit that comes to retrieve him. Since he deserted in a combat zone, or went AWOL, and later label as deserter same thing happens but now the US Military has to look for him. Since the video of him came up verifying he was captured then he slides into POW status the search for him was called off.

We go to extrodinary length to retrieve a fallen comrade. 173rd lost a guy in Korangal Valley to enemy action. In fact the company was pushed back down the spur of a ridge. The guy killed was the commo guy with all the fills and a man pack SINGAR. Being it was evening when he went down the unit could not retrieved the body due to darkness and the amount of enemy fire. It was literally force on force. In twelve hours they brought an additional battalion from 501st and another battalion from RC South to go into Korangal Valley. His body was retrieved but all his gear, weapon, comm's and personnel effect was stack neatly by his body. All his food, water, pogey bait, and money was taking. Local villagers located the body first.

A month later Insurgent forces executed two men who searched the body for not taking the rifle and ammo. Four days later informant dropped dime on the shooters

 Bromsy wrote:
SGT isn't an automatic promotion... so ... don't promote them? I mean, if nothing else he hasn't passed an APFT in the required window to be considered for promotion since he deserted as a PFC. I get that it's done as a goodwill thing so is probably all but automatic, but come on.

Bingo. It's a goodwill thing. Not doing it could have become a story in its own right, and Big Green probably wouldn't want to be in that position without being able to say for certain one way or another.

They can always reduce him back down as part of a sentence.

The big thing for me is starting to become the trade. Letting five guys the Taliban actually wanted back go walking off in exchange for this chucklehead is bad juju.

 Jihadin wrote:

Tell that to the Vietnam POWs that died in captivity years after the war.

Seaward.....help me out here....NVA prisoners? Viet Cong prisoners? US Prisoners?

ARVN perhaps. I met one of those guys who was left to rot. Poor bastard.

 d-usa wrote:
I wasn't even thinking about the promotion, just the "still a soldier even if he deserted" thing.

Well yeah, of course he's still a soldier. I just hope he is investigated/prosecuted and handed the DD and or prison sentence he seems to deserve, at which point he will stop being a soldier.

 Bromsy wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I wasn't even thinking about the promotion, just the "still a soldier even if he deserted" thing.

Well yeah, of course he's still a soldier. I just hope he is investigated/prosecuted and handed the DD and or prison sentence he seems to deserve, at which point he will stop being a soldier.

That's what I was thinking.

If he is found guilty of deserting, could he become liable for the deaths?

Bullockist wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:

Tell that to the Vietnam POWs that died in captivity years after the war.

Seaward.....help me out here....NVA prisoners? Viet Cong prisoners? US Prisoners?

ARVN perhaps. I met one of those guys who was left to rot. Poor bastard.

ARVN, almost unquestionably. The South Vietnamese really got screwed when we pulled out.

The notion that we left behind Americans in captivity is unsubstantiated by anything I can find, though. I was reading about this the other day for unrelated reasons. I'm no expert on it, but the experts say no.

Yes. He can be charged for their deaths

 d-usa wrote:

 Bromsy wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I wasn't even thinking about the promotion, just the "still a soldier even if he deserted" thing.

Well yeah, of course he's still a soldier. I just hope he is investigated/prosecuted and handed the DD and or prison sentence he seems to deserve, at which point he will stop being a soldier.

That's what I was thinking.

If he is found guilty of deserting, could he become liable for the deaths?

He could, theoretically. My gut says they won't go for it.

Just out of curiosity:

If you are sentenced to prison, are you still a soldier in prison and get discharged after you served your sentence?

 Bromsy wrote:
Well yeah, of course he's still a soldier. I just hope he is investigated/prosecuted and handed the DD and or prison sentence he seems to deserve, at which point he will stop being a soldier.

It'd be nice, but I think it's unlikely. Too much of a gak storm. We released five Jihad Joes so we could get a moon unit out of Waziristani hill-jail just so we could throw him in jail ourselves. It wouldn't play.

Well, maybe if they get back into the fight we can kill all five before 2016

Maybe they surgically implanted drone homing beacons into these guys while in Gitmo...

They had dental work. Remote detonated C4 pack molar

 d-usa wrote:
Just out of curiosity:

If you are sentenced to prison, are you still a soldier in prison and get discharged after you served your sentence?

I believe that is how it works. Knew a guy through a friend who went to Fort Leavenworth and that is what happened if I recall correctly.

Relapse wrote:
Some of the comments here are serving as a springboard for me to research this in depth. I'm beginning to go from extremely happy he got out to wtf as I read in various news services of how he just abandoned his post and others died died trying to find him and save him. Other sources say he was captured in a raid, however.

Purely out of curiosity, can you post some of the sources that show him captured in a raid?

Thanks

 Ahtman wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Just out of curiosity:

If you are sentenced to prison, are you still a soldier in prison and get discharged after you served your sentence?

I believe that is how it works. Knew a guy through a friend who went to Fort Leavenworth and that is what happened if I recall correctly.

I actually don't think so, because... To my knowledge the most money they can go for is the 45 days in an Article 15. Elsewise the government owes money to the person as a salary. I believe that they are slapped with a dishonorable right from the get go, but are still under "contract" so they are considered military.

I could be wrong though (never did get into much UCMJ, trouble or otherwise)

I was wondering because I was thinking about them being forced to wear their uniforms and such, but after thinking a little bit I'm pretty sure that when I heard about stuff like that it was still during the trial.

 d-usa wrote:
I was wondering because I was thinking about them being forced to wear their uniforms and such, but after thinking a little bit I'm pretty sure that when I heard about stuff like that it was still during the trial.

Yeah, they generally wear military uniforms during trial, but I think (and could be wrong, again) that they wear "army issued prisoner uniforms" ie. orange jumpsuits, as done in most every other penitentiary.

I just read about this one congressman saying, with absolutely no evidence, that Bergdahl went to the Taliban on purpose. Ahh, politics, one of the few places were lying is not only accepted, but is treated as art.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I just read about this one congressman saying, with absolutely no evidence, that Bergdahl went to the Taliban on purpose. Ahh, politics, one of the few places were lying is not only accepted, but is treated as art.

Sad thing is.... he/she may or may not be lying in this case... But you are correct that the evidence we currently have can't fully support (or really support at all) that kind of statement.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I just read about this one congressman saying, with absolutely no evidence, that Bergdahl went to the Taliban on purpose. Ahh, politics, one of the few places were lying is not only accepted, but is treated as art.

Sad thing is.... he/she may or may not be lying in this case... But you are correct that the evidence we currently have can't fully support (or really support at all) that kind of statement.

It's a bit like the desertion thing. At first it was not verified, but people said it anyway.

To be fair, there is a lot of confirmation he walked off his COP, unauthorized. Doing so and not returning within 30 days (while you are AWOL) fits the definition for desertion.

So who plays this guy in the made-for-TV-movie adaptation?

feth that. Who plays his father with the crazy ass beard?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I just read about this one congressman saying, with absolutely no evidence, that Bergdahl went to the Taliban on purpose. Ahh, politics, one of the few places were lying is not only accepted, but is treated as art.

Actually... some of Bergdahl's own platoon mates are speaking out about this.

Just curious for your camouflage types. If Bergdahl was a deserter, lets hypothetical suppose - the President could not pardon or commute him, correct? Undue command influence?