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Lots of talk of a daemon bomb. Here's the challenge. Build the most effective daemon bomb, using the format I'm likely to see.
1) Army consists of 1 Combined Arms Detachment
2) 1 Allied detachment OR 1 other unique detachment (such as that of the inquisitors).
3) 1800 Points.
4) Any level of ally can be used, including Come the Apocalypse.

By daemon bomb do you mean daemon factory?

Please, what is a daemon bomb?

A deathstar that deepstrikes. Farsight Bomb is called a bomb because it deepstrikes. O'vesa star is not called o'vesa bomb because it doesn't need to deepstrike. Can we change the points to something someone actually uses?

1750, 1850 or 2000. Go home otherwise.

There is no good way to build a daemon bomb. Your best bet is to run a unit of plague flies on the ground, with icons, then units of 20 nurgle plaguebearers also with icons. The flies are tough and the bearers need to be dealt with/can deepstrike with ease.

Also consider bonbons. they can deepstrike then assault when your opponent assaults.

..bonbons?

I can't think of any reliable way to do a daemon bomb. Farsight works because he doesn't scatter and has disgusting levels of firepower.

Ok with icons and cursed earth you can stop scatter with short range, but nothing in the daemon list has that much fire-power... a couple of soul grinders maybe?

That's why daemon bombs are assault based. You use instruments to get more units out of reserves on turn 2, use icons on the arriving units to chain no-scatter deep strikes and supposedly there are so many daemons in the opponents face that they can't kill it all and the remaining daemons assault everything to death.

Not actually a big success list wise, so I'm confused as to what OP heard about daemon bombs and assuming he thinks he is talking about daemon factory.

If you can combo a good reserve turn with a good psychic phase to get invisibility shrouding and cursed earth off, then you could be durable enough to cause issues. Difficult tho.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
If you can combo a good reserve turn with a good psychic phase to get invisibility shrouding and cursed earth off, then you could be durable enough to cause issues. Difficult tho.

Unless you are playing like 3000 pts, you aren't going to be able to do both, their is zero overlap

Zero overlap? If your reserves include princes and greater daemons with mastery levels then theres plenty of overlap. (But id probably fly belakor up to get the telepathy spells off.
Warp charge would be an issue, but there's ways around that.

Daemon MCs can't be used in a daemon bomb. Paying around 300 points for just a single 4-5 wound model is a terrible idea when your plan is to survive an entire army's worth of shooting and probably have to multi-assault with those units

 CrownAxe wrote:
By daemon bomb do you mean daemon factory?

Oops, meant factory.

It gets broken with combined arms
Primary
Chaos Sorcerer w/ Spell Familiar , Prophet of Voices , bike
Chaos Sorcerer w/ Spell Familiar , bike, that 5+

Troops
Cultists 50
Cultists 50
total :
Combined Arms
Chaos Sorcerer w/ Spell Familiar bike, that 5+
Chaos Sorcerer w/ Spell Familiar bike, that 5+

Total : 450

Troops
Chaos Cultist 50
Chaos Cultist 50

Total : 450

Allied Daemons
Herald of Tzeentch Level 3 w/ Chariot
Herald of Tzeentch Level 3
w/ Chariot
Herald of Tzeentch Level 3
Herald of Tzeentch Level 3

Troops
Pink Horrors x 18
Pink Horrors x 12
Pink Horrors x 18


Total Warp Charge : 32

Or

Herald of Tzeentch Level 3 w/ Chariot
Herald of Tzeentch Level 3 w/
Chariot
Herald of Tzeentch Level 3 w/
Chariot
Herald of Tzeentch w/ Chariot

Troops
Pink Horrors x 18
Pink Horrors x 18

Total 905

Herald of Tzeentch Level 3 w/ Chariot
Herald of Tzeentch Level 3 w/
Chariot
Herald of Tzeentch Level 3 w/
Chariot
Herald of Tzeentch w/ Chariot

Troops
Pink Horrors x 18
Pink Horrors x 18

Total 905

total 1810
Warp Charge : 36

Good Luck. The Heralds on Chariots are Fast Skimmers, they can move 12 summon then move 18. Oh and that's 36 rolls on Daemonology each Herald rolls 3 times, the Pink Horrors roll once. How many times you think they'll get possession? Cause its almost exactly half, so you can summon 4 Greater Daemons on the first turn. Also you are not going to alpha strike that entire army. It's got a 4+ jink save.

Or take that and take Eldar where it becomes worse but I'm not super familiar with that.








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Or read this

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/597338.page

Why are you putting them on a chariot when you can put them on a disk for cheaper, better movement, can hide in a unit, and isn't an open-topped AV10 vehicle for durability

Heralds of Tzeentch can only be played in a primary detachment, and then I guess only 4 of them no matter how many detachments you take.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Heralds of Tzeentch can only be played in a primary detachment, and then I guess only 4 of them no matter how many detachments you take.

This has always been wrong, but now the new FAQ changed it so you can play 0-4 heralds in every detachment and not just the primary one

 CrownAxe wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Heralds of Tzeentch can only be played in a primary detachment, and then I guess only 4 of them no matter how many detachments you take.

This has always been wrong, but now the new FAQ changed it so you can play 0-4 heralds in every detachment and not just the primary one

Thanks for pointing out. This gives a Daemon army even more warp charges.

IIRC the rules state the rider of the chariot is always considered Stationary when shooting his weapons. Therefor you should be able to move > Shoot > flat out. ?

 CrownAxe wrote:
Why are you putting them on a chariot when you can put them on a disk for cheaper, better movement, can hide in a unit, and isn't an open-topped AV10 vehicle for durability

4+ Jink , 5+, Reroll 1s with Cursed earth 4+ ,2 + w/ Grimoire, additional cover save if obscured, 30 Inch move. Additional 1 Hullpoint with shooting.

Seriously one of the best units you can take that summons. Like hands down.

They can always get Flickering Fire and if they want they can roll on a the Tzeentch chart and get two powers one that's a beam that's AP1 + D6+5 if they charge it with a Icon.

It's actually better to run them with Heralds of Slaanesh on Chariots rolling on Telepathy so they can get the 6 inch Shrouded rule and get a 2+ cover save.

Like they are seriously good.

A herald on a disk gets all of those things, a 36" move instead of 30" and the ability to hide in a unit of screamers or pink horrors and have a wall of up to 20 wounds is way better then depending on 3 HP on an AV10 open topped vehicle

All of this for 25 pts less.

There's a couple of benefits that make it worth it, also according to the rules. A Chariot can join units of course that's a YMDC, i don't think they can personally.

Here's why

1. Protection from these units, Wyverns , Mortars, Thunderfire.
2. Avoidance of Instant Death ST10 Manticores which only get a +1 so on a 6 they'd get the explodes result. Otherwise they'll lay that template on top of him and instakill him. It's not much but it's a little bit better.
3. Larger Summoning footprint and Summoning Bubble for cursed earth.
4. Hammer of Wrath

It's not like I don't like the discs though I think theyre great I just like Chariots more

1. Tze Chariot is not immune to these, for instance four S6 barrages from the thunder fire still can kill the chariot in one go
2. If the herald is in a unit he gets to LOS! on a 2+ so is pretty immune to problems like that, while the chariot will have to take damage from it
3. You don't need it, the units summoned can't assault on the turn they arrive but with a run move and and a full move on the turn they can assault pretty much anything already
4. Why are you charging with a tzeentch unit?

1. It still get's its saves versus this and can take hits on the Rider or the Chariot. At most they can destroy it on a six with a thunderfire. Everythng else doesn't really affect it.

2. They don't , you can give precision shots to a unit of 20 dudes with Lasguns and kill a Herald. they get LOS and it's helpful but it can be negated by several things.

3. It makes it somewhat immune to witchfire as well, certain spells are a malediction or focus witch fire that can kill him dead.

4. D6 ST6 hits, it's a reliable way to actually deal with Tanks and some transports.

5. They can't assault but he can move them further.

6. If not summoned on the first turn, the additional Screamers are 300 points. To protect 4 Heralds.

7. If he's in a squad of other Psykers you can lose the ability to cast certain spells.

He does get a bump in tougness though so that's good. It's just the added effect of the armour that I like personally. I use both in my armies.

I don't disagree i just find one more survivable than the other.

1. So does the herald, and vehicles don't only die by rolling an explode they also lose hull points
2. Precision shots is on 6's so that's barely an hits, then after rolling to wound and LOS! that's pretty much no damage on the herald
3. You can just DtW it all, you'll have 30+ dice and will probably be dentying on a 4+ that is nothing to worry about for either unit
4. And that puts you right in front of the army and will get your herald instantly killed, why would you want to do that
5. Like I said before you you don't need to. The units you summon will already be able to get to where they need to go if you summon them from your deployment zone, you don't need to move up to do that.
6. You don't buy more screamers, you put them in the horrors you already have because like I said you have no real reason to move forward with your heralds
7. A fair trade to not die instantly

Frankly you shouldn't be using either its a waste of points either way but the chariot is a completely waste of 50 pts while the disk is cheaper and gives you the options to remain viable.

The ability to move forward 12 then summon then move 18 to 24 with either of them is insanely powerful.

I like Chariots more, it's easier to give a big bubble with them and if it's Slaanesh it gets to get the shrouding.

They're both excellent units, depends on what your going for.

I'm trying to not have a Manticore or Wyvern wipe out 6 points of Warp Charge in a turn which it absolutely can do.

The army suffers drastically from being weak against a Alpha Strike.

Short of buying a bunker there are very few instances or ways to protect against it. As for them beinga waste of points you really don't know what you are talking about, I'm sorry.

Ok, so far a single response that ignored the list requirements.
Only 1 Combined Arms Detachment.
Only 1 Allied detachment or 1 special detachment (like that of the inquisitors).

I was thinking Crop Rotation Farming.
Necrons as primary with
Storm Lord
2x5 Warriors
2x6 Scarab Swarms
3x3 Spiders
Allies:
4x level 3 heralds of tzeench
2x20 horrors of tzeench.
Leaves 75 points (Aegis?)

The idea would be to try and bunker down the first two turns and build up the army, then send out the forces as you keep summoning.

-Matt

The chariot is a bad unit, thats what im saying

Yeah it's not, Slaanesh is better but Tzeentch chariot is still pretty good.

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah it's not, Slaanesh is better but Tzeentch chariot is still pretty good.

Everyone is going to be running a ton anti tank now that vehicles score again, our chariots aren't going to last a turn since they're the only vehicles on the field

 CrownAxe wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah it's not, Slaanesh is better but Tzeentch chariot is still pretty good.

Everyone is going to be running a ton anti tank now that vehicles score again, our chariots aren't going to last a turn since they're the only vehicles on the field

It isn't any harder to glance a vehicle to death, and that's how I killed almost everything anyway.

-Matt

Don't let them get shot then.