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So I have had a few games now of 7th ed and to be honest have not enjoyed any of them.

I find it very clunky especially with the addition of a "psychic phase" Which seems very forced and really just didn't flow for me

Activating force weapons for grey knights to me basically says "I am going to assault you" which means you know which units to save your over watches for add in the fact you have foreboding and you can really destroy that squad that was going to assault.

Looking at the fmc grounding test is a joke. A whole army can shoot at a demon prince and he is like pffft imma stay up here! I think grounding tests should be one test for each squad that inflicts a wound. so if 2 squads inflict 3 wounds, still 2 tests.

even with my necrons i found it so boring. an army of jink saves woah watch out

I am seriously considering selling up my armies because I am not happy. I would even consider going to WHFB but i can see gw messing that up too just because they want rulebook big money

Anyone else have hate at the rulebook itself. not because its silly but because the game just lacks the fun and quick moving fluid flow of 6?

 XdeadpoolX wrote:

Anyone else have hate at the rulebook itself. not because its silly but because the game just lacks the fun and quick moving fluid flow of 6?

I just want a record that somebody, somewhere, wrote this. I had a pretty good laugh.

Dude, for all of 6th ed's grandeur (and I did love it) it was slower and clunkier than any edition of 40k that preceded it.

I am seriously considering selling up my armies because I am not happy.

You want out? Feel free to PM me and we can discuss a sale of an army. I LOVE buying people out of the hobby.

Until then, you should check the dozens of threads complaining about 7th edition for some camaraderie. (As of right now, there's no less than 4 of them in Gen Discussion alone, and that's just on the first page...)

40k is in fact very clunky. The good news is what you'll make from selling any 40k mini's you have can most likely buy you a full sized army for at least one other game out there.

Infinity takes a bit of learning but once you get the hang of it it's nice and fluid. Dystopian Wars has also just released a new edition that is supposed to (still waiting on my book) smooth a lot of things out and even before that it was never as clunky as 40k.

40k rules are complex without a similar amount of depth. They could definitely be streamlined without detracting from gameplay. Using d8's to d12's would cut down on a lot of extra rolling, greater stat distribution would allow for better differentiation between units without needing so many special rules and so on.

Don't sell your armies though mate unless you were purely a gamer and not a collector. If you cut down on gaming, you'll have more time for converting and painting which is very rewarding imo.

 Yonan wrote:
40k rules are complex without a similar amount of depth. They could definitely be streamlined without detracting from gameplay. Using d8's to d12's would cut down on a lot of extra rolling, greater stat distribution would allow for better differentiation between units without needing so many special rules and so on.

Don't sell your armies though mate unless you were purely a gamer and not a collector. If you cut down on gaming, you'll have more time for converting and painting which is very rewarding imo.

thanks man i was a main gamer i painted to just above tabletop quality. I was happy with that but i think its now time to upgrade my skills and conversion level and begin the trials of enhancing my painting... means finding a new army (im over the power armor lol)

 XdeadpoolX wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
40k rules are complex without a similar amount of depth. They could definitely be streamlined without detracting from gameplay. Using d8's to d12's would cut down on a lot of extra rolling, greater stat distribution would allow for better differentiation between units without needing so many special rules and so on.

Don't sell your armies though mate unless you were purely a gamer and not a collector. If you cut down on gaming, you'll have more time for converting and painting which is very rewarding imo.

thanks man i was a main gamer i painted to just above tabletop quality. I was happy with that but i think its now time to upgrade my skills and conversion level and begin the trials of enhancing my painting... means finding a new army (im over the power armor lol)

Sounds like a plan ; ) If you consider IG, you have a wealth of non-GW options such as Vic Mini Arcadians which are awesome mixed male and female guard regiments, Dreamforge Games Stormtroopers and so on. Then you can add DFG Leviathans and Hanomax APCs both of which are awesome too. It's always nice enjoying 40k without giving GW a cent.
Examples:

 Yonan wrote:

Sounds like a plan ; ) If you consider IG, you have a wealth of non-GW options such as Vic Mini Arcadians which are awesome mixed male and female guard regiments, Dreamforge Games Stormtroopers and so on. Then you can add DFG Leviathans and Hanomax APCs both of which are awesome too. It's always nice enjoying 40k without giving GW a cent.
Examples:

I'm familiar with the Dreamforce stuff - I've not bought any (no pressing need!) but they're great.

First time I've ever 'seriously' looked at Victoria miniatures - they're stunning.

Another option is anvil industries - stunning power armour spec op units, and through their afterlife kickstarter they've got some awesome storm trooper kits. Www. Anvilindustry.com


To answer the op though - yes, 40k is clunky. Every aspect is, if you ask me from its phases, to its 3 (or more!) roll resolution mechanism. Roll to hit/wound/armour safe/ fnp and whatever else, with most of those rolls asking the same question (did what hit me kill me)

Deadnight wrote:
First time I've ever 'seriously' looked at Victoria miniatures - they're stunning.

Not wrong, if I didn't have so many projects on the go I'd be all over those Arcadians. Stunning quality sculpts with great proportions (unlike Cadians and Catachans), mixed male/female regiments with good quality resin from a great company with a solid dakka presence. Vic is worth supporting, I love her stuff and I'm glad she's moved to resin finally.

To answer the op though - yes, 40k is clunky. Every aspect is, if you ask me from its phases, to its 3 (or more!) roll resolution mechanism. Roll to hit/wound/armour safe/ fnp and whatever else, with most of those rolls asking the same question (did what hit me kill me)

Yep, which is why I despise the d6. d12's (even d8's or d10's) would allow a much greater range of values so you wouldn't need to roll 4 dice for "did it kill me" as you say which is just ridiculously cumbersome. It would even be a good business decision for GW as they could sell us new dice ; )

No, 40K isn't that clunky.

There are hundreds of other games out there, go find a game you enjoy rather than complaining about a game you don't like.

Is someone really making you play 7th? Why don't you carry on playing 6th, 5th, 4th or whatever?

Any game that requires 3 or 4 rolls to resolve the simple question, 'did you kill that guy' or uses 4 different stats just to swing a sword could use some cleaning up.

As could any game that includes both artillery pieces firing at each other and unit champions challenging each other ti a dual.

 Ugavine wrote:
No, 40K isn't that clunky.

There are hundreds of other games out there, go find a game you enjoy rather than complaining about a game you don't like.

Is someone really making you play 7th? Why don't you carry on playing 6th, 5th, 4th or whatever?

Please point to one with support for all the 40k races and a playerbase and I'll happily switch to it.

Clunky? Possibly. There are a lot of games that have hits/wounds in a single roll, or combine toughness and save into a single defence stat, so there's a lot 40k could trim down on.

The Psychic phase is a little annoying in theory (I've not yet played 7th and don't intend to for a good while) but at the same time does remove a lot of arguments about when powers happen ect. I just don't like the increased focus on psykers, I don't want them to just become Space Wizards.

The biggest issue where 40k loses out to other systems is the igougo setup, I find games that involve alternative activation or split phases are much more tactical and interactive, and become a real contest between the players. In 40k, when you're under fire, there's nothing you can do about it.

I agree the biggest clunk is the turn structure of I do it all then you do it all. Activations or the ability to react is far less clunky

The mechanisms for fighting (shooting and hand to hand) are very clunky.

They always have been.

 Yonan wrote:

 Ugavine wrote:
No, 40K isn't that clunky.

There are hundreds of other games out there, go find a game you enjoy rather than complaining about a game you don't like.

Is someone really making you play 7th? Why don't you carry on playing 6th, 5th, 4th or whatever?

Please point to one with support for all the 40k races and a playerbase and I'll happily switch to it.

If it's the 40K universe you love then there are the RPGs; Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch & Black Crusade.

Player base is situational. Bolt Action, Heroclix and historical wargames are as popular as 40K at my local club of 30+ players.

 Ugavine wrote:
If it's the 40K universe you love then there are the RPGs; Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch & Black Crusade.

I haven't been interested in tabletop RPGs since high school sadly, much more into wargaming on both PC and tabletop now. I do enjoy reading the RPG rulebooks though! They're much better than the GW ones imo.

The game is definitely feeling bloated with too many (IMO) things bolted on to the old 3rd framework.

I'm interested to see what FW does with the 30k rules in light of the release of 7th edition.

I have much preferred how they approached the rules. Limiting Lords of War to games closer to where they belong etc.

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Take a look at the psychic phase and what happens if you perils, compared to the last edition. Just a crazy amount of dice rolling to resolve a single effect.

 XdeadpoolX wrote:
So I have had a few games now of 7th ed and to be honest have not enjoyed any of them.

I find it very clunky especially with the addition of a "psychic phase" Which seems very forced and really just didn't flow for me

Activating force weapons for grey knights to me basically says "I am going to assault you" which means you know which units to save your over watches for add in the fact you have foreboding and you can really destroy that squad that was going to assault.

Looking at the fmc grounding test is a joke. A whole army can shoot at a demon prince and he is like pffft imma stay up here! I think grounding tests should be one test for each squad that inflicts a wound. so if 2 squads inflict 3 wounds, still 2 tests.

even with my necrons i found it so boring. an army of jink saves woah watch out

I am seriously considering selling up my armies because I am not happy. I would even consider going to WHFB but i can see gw messing that up too just because they want rulebook big money

Anyone else have hate at the rulebook itself. not because its silly but because the game just lacks the fun and quick moving fluid flow of 6?

I sold one space marine army and got two Infinity armies and the rules and army builder. So, if no one else plays Infinity there, you can use your second army for demo games and get people interested!

I really don't think it's all that clunky. Yeah, it's not quite "airtight" with how some rules are supposed to work, but when I look at other games out there, nothing compares to 40k. Warmachine especially just looks boring. I like having a ton of models on the field and rolling a crap ton of dice.

 Ugavine wrote:
No, 40K isn't that clunky.

I'd say the fact that you can spend 10 minutes on an opponent's turn doing nothing but rolling the occasional dice for their action's resolutions sounds pretty clunky.

In fact, I'd say that 40k is probably the best (or worst) textbook example of a clunky game.

 Fafnir wrote:


I'd say the fact that you can spend 10 minutes on an opponent's turn doing nothing but rolling the occasional dice for their action's resolutions sounds pretty clunky.

In fact, I'd say that 40k is probably the best (or worst) textbook example of a clunky game.

Pffft! I spent 10 minutes watching my opponent generate spells for his 1500 point demon army the other day.

40k is very clunky considering all it uses is D6's.

Flames of War and Bolt Action both use D6 mechanics and are far more streamlined than 40k for example.

I don't have a problem with the whole roll to hit/ roll to wound/ roll to save thing, that's fine. I have a problem with the vast amount of rules that are unnecessary, repeat other rules, outright reference other rules when you could have just said it had that rule (I believe zealot in 6th literally just gave you hatred and crusader rules, with no explanation whatsoever) and the fact that a large amount of rules are just poorly worded and tested. That last one is the kicker. When people can get threads going in YMDC for several pages (or hell, the fact that YMDC has some of the highest traffic on dakka) the rule set has some issues.