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Zodiark wrote:
 Unholyllama wrote:
In 7th, if you want to use a fortification, you'll need Stronghold Assault for those points and datasheets.

If you want to use Lords of War you'll need to buy the Escalation book.

If you want to use Orks, you'll need to be the Ork Codex in 2 weeks.

It's all about buying the books associated with the models you want to play with.

More On Topic though.... A few things to note that have changed between 6th and 7th concerning the ADL (and Quadgun)

- Interceptor no longer allows Skyfire weapons to fire at ground targets at full ballastic skill

- Fortifications (including ADL) are deployed when you deploy the rest of your army and only in your deployment zone

- ADL, specifically, no longer has to be in 1 continual link as that FAQ entry was not replicated in Stronghold Assault Book and was not replicated in the Stronghold Assault FAQ that came out last week. You only have to make sure at least 2 pieces are touching together.


You sure that just cause it was omitted that the rule is different now? Heard of other occasions when people think this but it's more simply because no new FAQ has come out yet


There's a debate going on where the Heldrake no longer is 360 degrees so without an official FAQ for the edition and respective book that addresses this issue, RAW would allow it. Likewise, the Wall of Martyrs Defense Line has similar wording and the kit even comes with 4 end pieces. So it wasn't corrected in December when SA was first released and now 6 months later we have a new edition and the first FAQs to the book and it still isn't back to 1 continual line so the most up to date ruling for the ADL deployment is RAW.
   
Made in au
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





Perth

hows the heldrake debated? the weapon is now hull mounted? how can it fire 360deg. ill take a link to THAT idea please.
and the 6th book said that the entire adl had to be touching pieces of the same adl.

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Liverpool

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
hows the heldrake debated? the weapon is now hull mounted? how can it fire 360deg. ill take a link to THAT idea please.
It hasn't been changed to Hull mounted.
The FAQ that clarified how it should be used is simply not there any more.
and the 6th book said that the entire adl had to be touching pieces of the same adl.
It said one section must be in contact with at least one other section.
So technically you could have 4 lots of 2 sections scattered about the battlefield.

This was FAQ'd to clarify it should be one continuos chain. That FAQ is also now absent.
   
Made in au
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





Perth

 grendel083 wrote:
 ausYenLoWang wrote:
hows the heldrake debated? the weapon is now hull mounted? how can it fire 360deg. ill take a link to THAT idea please.
It hasn't been changed to Hull mounted.
The FAQ that clarified how it should be used is simply not there any more.
and the 6th book said that the entire adl had to be touching pieces of the same adl.
It said one section must be in contact with at least one other section.
So technically you could have 4 lots of 2 sections scattered about the battlefield.

This was FAQ'd to clarify it should be one continuos chain. That FAQ is also now absent.


the current FAQ calls it hull mounted. and it says its LOS from the gun barrel

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/05 09:06:26


CSM 20,000 Pts
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WoC over 10,000
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Vanished Completely

The weapon was never well defined in 6th edition, so the Frequently Asked Question stated to treat it as turret because of the Torrent Special Rule. This had the side effect of allowing the Wounds caused by the weapons to be allocated in a similar fashion, and when coupled with Vector Strike this caused the Heldrake to be something of a terror that a Dragon should be. Now, it is back to requiring Line of Sight for Wound allocation and instructions informing us to measure from the weapons location like we should of been doing all along. It down-grades the Flyer considerably, but given that the few cheap Anti-Air options have been crippled to 'Anti-Air Only' there is some sort of strange balance over all as we will see less of them as well.

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It always required LOS for wounds, and it did so from the base. Torrent != blast and had no exception to the out if sight rule! unlike blast weapons.
   
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Wishing I was back at the South Atlantic, closer to ice than the sun

One other thing about the ADL is that any upgrades, eg the gun, has to be wholly within 6" of the wall. Of course since you can now split up the wall....

Cheers

Andrew

I don't care what the flag says, I'm SCOTTISH!!!

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Mr Nobody wrote:
Does a canoe with a machine gun count?
 
   
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Nosferatu1001,
I was not saying anything different, it was always the 'treat it as turret' that gave it the ability to allocate Wounds behind it.
I mentioned the Torrent Special Rule as a possible cause of where the question originated from, I believe enough people wrote in questioning why they have permission to generate Hits behind them and that was the answer at the time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/05 11:34:34


8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.  
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





Zodiark wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Zodiark wrote:
 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Zodiark wrote:
You won't need the Stronghold codex tbh, ADL stats and everything it can do are all in BRB. If you want the bigger and badder stuff, get the codex


The points costs are not in the BRB; fielding Bastions and ADLs and just about every older piece other than the skyshield can only be fielded via the BRB as Battlefield terrain, not fortifications.

As for a distaste in buying Stronghold assault, a community copy for your gaming group is not a bad idea. Every player in your group can take the datasheets therein so there is no reason for everyone to have their own copy(assuming you have a common group).


Considering that is where I got mine, I would disagree. I knew the points for my Aegis and I never heard of a codex it until today

What's the page number of where the ADL points are listed in the 7th edition BRB?
IE - the datasheet. I'm aware it was in the 6th edition BRB.


Dunno, haven't bought 7th, still using 6th for the most part, nobody specified which BRB to use as a majority are still on 6th I assumed you'd check there as well. Nothing changed for anything listed in 6th that I've noticed but I haven't fully read the codex for forts yet

...
The "majority" are not still on 6th. The thread is about 7th edition. Telling people they don't need SA for ADLs in 7th is absolutely false.

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rigeld2 wrote:
Zodiark wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Zodiark wrote:
 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Zodiark wrote:
You won't need the Stronghold codex tbh, ADL stats and everything it can do are all in BRB. If you want the bigger and badder stuff, get the codex


The points costs are not in the BRB; fielding Bastions and ADLs and just about every older piece other than the skyshield can only be fielded via the BRB as Battlefield terrain, not fortifications.

As for a distaste in buying Stronghold assault, a community copy for your gaming group is not a bad idea. Every player in your group can take the datasheets therein so there is no reason for everyone to have their own copy(assuming you have a common group).


Considering that is where I got mine, I would disagree. I knew the points for my Aegis and I never heard of a codex it until today

What's the page number of where the ADL points are listed in the 7th edition BRB?
IE - the datasheet. I'm aware it was in the 6th edition BRB.


Dunno, haven't bought 7th, still using 6th for the most part, nobody specified which BRB to use as a majority are still on 6th I assumed you'd check there as well. Nothing changed for anything listed in 6th that I've noticed but I haven't fully read the codex for forts yet

...
The "majority" are not still on 6th. The thread is about 7th edition. Telling people they don't need SA for ADLs in 7th is absolutely false.


Reading comprehension, use it. Nowhere in the beginning of the thread does it say 7th and all 3 of my LGS are primarily on 6th and the bulk of the players I know online from other forums and some here prefer 6th to 7th so they stick with 6th, others do a sort of 6.5 so please, read thoroughly before posting.

Also, until an FAQ specifically states that the walls do not need to be next to one another, you should play as if they should be, though it is a little weird as even on the box they are separated but GW thinks like a business, not like a player

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Zodiark wrote:
Reading comprehension, use it. Nowhere in the beginning of the thread does it say 7th and all 3 of my LGS are primarily on 6th and the bulk of the players I know online from other forums and some here prefer 6th to 7th so they stick with 6th, others do a sort of 6.5 so please, read thoroughly before posting.

OP wrote:so I read the rule book (well, half-read, half browed the second hlaf) and while I did saw a descriptor of the defence line/trench system giving 4+ save, I didn't saw the point value of it anywhere.

What book just came out? Why would he miss the point values in the 6th edition BRB? What edition is current? When discussing rules, why would you assume an old version is what's being discussed?

Should I pul out my 3rd ed BRB and start answering questions using that? So please, instead of assuming I can't comprehend what I read, perhaps understand that this forum is for discussing current rules unless specified, not what used to be true.

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rigeld2 wrote:
Zodiark wrote:
Reading comprehension, use it. Nowhere in the beginning of the thread does it say 7th and all 3 of my LGS are primarily on 6th and the bulk of the players I know online from other forums and some here prefer 6th to 7th so they stick with 6th, others do a sort of 6.5 so please, read thoroughly before posting.

OP wrote:so I read the rule book (well, half-read, half browed the second hlaf) and while I did saw a descriptor of the defence line/trench system giving 4+ save, I didn't saw the point value of it anywhere.

What book just came out? Why would he miss the point values in the 6th edition BRB? What edition is current? When discussing rules, why would you assume an old version is what's being discussed?

Should I pul out my 3rd ed BRB and start answering questions using that? So please, instead of assuming I can't comprehend what I read, perhaps understand that this forum is for discussing current rules unless specified, not what used to be true.


Considering 7th just hit less than two weeks ago give or take a day, it hasn't had enough time to solidify in the gaming community and many are still hesitant about it, do some research online man, stop spouting off, many, many people are still on 6th, hell I can walk into my local GW store and get in a 6th ed game, I did this weekend with no problems, spent the whole day there and not a single table played on 7th.

Nothing more fun than tabling an opponent 
   
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Zodiark wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Zodiark wrote:
Reading comprehension, use it. Nowhere in the beginning of the thread does it say 7th and all 3 of my LGS are primarily on 6th and the bulk of the players I know online from other forums and some here prefer 6th to 7th so they stick with 6th, others do a sort of 6.5 so please, read thoroughly before posting.

OP wrote:so I read the rule book (well, half-read, half browed the second hlaf) and while I did saw a descriptor of the defence line/trench system giving 4+ save, I didn't saw the point value of it anywhere.

What book just came out? Why would he miss the point values in the 6th edition BRB? What edition is current? When discussing rules, why would you assume an old version is what's being discussed?

Should I pul out my 3rd ed BRB and start answering questions using that? So please, instead of assuming I can't comprehend what I read, perhaps understand that this forum is for discussing current rules unless specified, not what used to be true.


Considering 7th just hit less than two weeks ago give or take a day, it hasn't had enough time to solidify in the gaming community and many are still hesitant about it, do some research online man, stop spouting off, many, many people are still on 6th, hell I can walk into my local GW store and get in a 6th ed game, I did this weekend with no problems, spent the whole day there and not a single table played on 7th.

I'm not spouting off. If you want to discuss old rules, that's fine - but don't assume everyone is.

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rigeld2 wrote:
Zodiark wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Zodiark wrote:
Reading comprehension, use it. Nowhere in the beginning of the thread does it say 7th and all 3 of my LGS are primarily on 6th and the bulk of the players I know online from other forums and some here prefer 6th to 7th so they stick with 6th, others do a sort of 6.5 so please, read thoroughly before posting.

OP wrote:so I read the rule book (well, half-read, half browed the second hlaf) and while I did saw a descriptor of the defence line/trench system giving 4+ save, I didn't saw the point value of it anywhere.

What book just came out? Why would he miss the point values in the 6th edition BRB? What edition is current? When discussing rules, why would you assume an old version is what's being discussed?

Should I pul out my 3rd ed BRB and start answering questions using that? So please, instead of assuming I can't comprehend what I read, perhaps understand that this forum is for discussing current rules unless specified, not what used to be true.


Considering 7th just hit less than two weeks ago give or take a day, it hasn't had enough time to solidify in the gaming community and many are still hesitant about it, do some research online man, stop spouting off, many, many people are still on 6th, hell I can walk into my local GW store and get in a 6th ed game, I did this weekend with no problems, spent the whole day there and not a single table played on 7th.

I'm not spouting off. If you want to discuss old rules, that's fine - but don't assume everyone is.


Meh, not old yet, if it's still being played by even a small playgroup in a whole in the wall LGS they're current and what are generally accepted. Having him buy another book just to find info is unnecessary when he can find the bulk in BRB where nothing much has changed. Everything listed here is a minor change and one is a flat out manipulation of a rule strictly because they failed to mention that the walls need to be touching.

Back on point, if you wanna waste money, buy the book, but you don't really need to worry about buying it tbh

Nothing more fun than tabling an opponent 
   
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Shropshire

Zodiark wrote:


Considering 7th just hit less than two weeks ago give or take a day, it hasn't had enough time to solidify in the gaming community and many are still hesitant about it, do some research online man, stop spouting off, many, many people are still on 6th, hell I can walk into my local GW store and get in a 6th ed game, I did this weekend with no problems, spent the whole day there and not a single table played on 7th.


You know that shouldn't have happened playing 6th in your local store haha. GW stores are meant to promote the current edition only and that means not allowing old editions to be played and if needed helping out in a new game or lending out the new rulebook bad GW store not a sinlge 6th ed has been played in my local gw or any of the three local clubs since 7th hit apart from a couple of players going to a 6th tournament this weekend as a final goodbye.

It is logical to assume that people are discussing 7th since this is pretty much what all the topics are about the changes and new editions to the rule like this post is about aegis defence lines in 7th and where to get the rules.

So lets get back on point... does anyone have the stronghold book and the exact wording of placement becuase just want to make sure you can now again set up seperatly cus that sucks if you can

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/05 15:32:57


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katana100 wrote:
Zodiark wrote:


Considering 7th just hit less than two weeks ago give or take a day, it hasn't had enough time to solidify in the gaming community and many are still hesitant about it, do some research online man, stop spouting off, many, many people are still on 6th, hell I can walk into my local GW store and get in a 6th ed game, I did this weekend with no problems, spent the whole day there and not a single table played on 7th.


You know that shouldn't have happened playing 6th in your local store haha. GW stores are meant to promote the current edition only and that means not allowing old editions to be played and if needed helping out in a new game or lending out the new rulebook bad GW store not a sinlge 6th ed has been played in my local gw or any of the three local clubs since 7th hit apart from a couple of players going to a 6th tournament this weekend as a final goodbye.

It is logical to assume that people are discussing 7th since this is pretty much what all the topics are about the changes and new editions to the rule like this post is about aegis defence lines in 7th and where to get the rules.



No I get that, but the original post simply asked about the ADL and info about it which I provided from 6th BRB then people couldn't hold their tongues and started spouting off which lead to a heated inter-debate over semantics.

My local GW, most of the players flat out refuse to play 7th for various reasons, me I look at 7th as a 6.5 update, not a whole new set of rules, just some minor changes that should be considered. Unless something in 7th directly counters something in 6th, you only need 6th BRB. Having compared the two books, there isn't enough of a change to consider it its own thing imo so I use both BRB

I have the rulebook for ADL and other fortifications


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Stronghold Assault RB does not state anything as to the placement of the ADL which generally means that the rule stands from what it was in the last edition

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/05 15:38:44


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Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

Zodiark wrote:


No I get that, but the original post simply asked about the ADL and info about it which I provided from 6th BRB then people couldn't hold their tongues and started spouting off which lead to a heated inter-debate over semantics.

My local GW, most of the players flat out refuse to play 7th for various reasons, me I look at 7th as a 6.5 update, not a whole new set of rules, just some minor changes that should be considered. Unless something in 7th directly counters something in 6th, you only need 6th BRB. Having compared the two books, there isn't enough of a change to consider it its own thing imo so I use both BRB

I have the rulebook for ADL and other fortifications


All well and good, but please keep in mind that these forums, unless otherwise noted, are discussing the most current rules. In this case that is 7th edition. To make any other assumption is just wrong.

In any case, the original posters question was answered LONG ago and anything more is really irrelevant to the topic.
   
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Shropshire

Zodiark wrote:
katana100 wrote:
Zodiark wrote:


Considering 7th just hit less than two weeks ago give or take a day, it hasn't had enough time to solidify in the gaming community and many are still hesitant about it, do some research online man, stop spouting off, many, many people are still on 6th, hell I can walk into my local GW store and get in a 6th ed game, I did this weekend with no problems, spent the whole day there and not a single table played on 7th.


You know that shouldn't have happened playing 6th in your local store haha. GW stores are meant to promote the current edition only and that means not allowing old editions to be played and if needed helping out in a new game or lending out the new rulebook bad GW store not a sinlge 6th ed has been played in my local gw or any of the three local clubs since 7th hit apart from a couple of players going to a 6th tournament this weekend as a final goodbye.

It is logical to assume that people are discussing 7th since this is pretty much what all the topics are about the changes and new editions to the rule like this post is about aegis defence lines in 7th and where to get the rules.




No I get that, but the original post simply asked about the ADL and info about it which I provided from 6th BRB then people couldn't hold their tongues and started spouting off which lead to a heated inter-debate over semantics.

My local GW, most of the players flat out refuse to play 7th for various reasons, me I look at 7th as a 6.5 update, not a whole new set of rules, just some minor changes that should be considered. Unless something in 7th directly counters something in 6th, you only need 6th BRB. Having compared the two books, there isn't enough of a change to consider it its own thing imo so I use both BRB

I have the rulebook for ADL and other fortifications


haha fair enough your local gw guy just aint as brutal as enforcing as the one near me its either get with the times or don't play

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katana100 wrote:
Zodiark wrote:
katana100 wrote:
Zodiark wrote:


Considering 7th just hit less than two weeks ago give or take a day, it hasn't had enough time to solidify in the gaming community and many are still hesitant about it, do some research online man, stop spouting off, many, many people are still on 6th, hell I can walk into my local GW store and get in a 6th ed game, I did this weekend with no problems, spent the whole day there and not a single table played on 7th.


You know that shouldn't have happened playing 6th in your local store haha. GW stores are meant to promote the current edition only and that means not allowing old editions to be played and if needed helping out in a new game or lending out the new rulebook bad GW store not a sinlge 6th ed has been played in my local gw or any of the three local clubs since 7th hit apart from a couple of players going to a 6th tournament this weekend as a final goodbye.

It is logical to assume that people are discussing 7th since this is pretty much what all the topics are about the changes and new editions to the rule like this post is about aegis defence lines in 7th and where to get the rules.




No I get that, but the original post simply asked about the ADL and info about it which I provided from 6th BRB then people couldn't hold their tongues and started spouting off which lead to a heated inter-debate over semantics.

My local GW, most of the players flat out refuse to play 7th for various reasons, me I look at 7th as a 6.5 update, not a whole new set of rules, just some minor changes that should be considered. Unless something in 7th directly counters something in 6th, you only need 6th BRB. Having compared the two books, there isn't enough of a change to consider it its own thing imo so I use both BRB

I have the rulebook for ADL and other fortifications


haha fair enough your local gw guy just aint as brutal as enforcing as the one near me its either get with the times or don't play


Mine tailors to whatever the players want and I have a lot of die hard veterans out here for some reason lol.

Yeah ran through RB again and nothing changed placement wise for the ADL that I can see, any statement of the contrary is merely an opinion as there isn't even a change in the FAQ either


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any rule against me copying directly from the RB onto forums?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BATTLEMENTS & BATTLEFIELD
Quoting from Stronghold Assault

"Battlement & Battlefield upgrades are single pieces of battlefield debris. A list of the relevant descriptions and rules for battlefield debris can be found opposite. Each fortification can purchase a single Battlement & Battlefield upgrade from the list below. These are placed either on the fortification’s battlements (if it is a building with battlements) or any where on the tabletop that is wholly within 6" of their fortification."

ADL is considered battlefield debris, so purchasing it with another fortification, it needs to be wholly within 6" of that fortifications.

The ADL by itself would need to have the walls in base contact with one another as it is considered a single piece of battlefield debris, the gun you use though can be anywhere wholly within 6"

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/05 15:54:08


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Automatically Appended Next Post:
BATTLEMENTS & BATTLEFIELD
Quoting from Stronghold Assault

"Battlement & Battlefield upgrades are single pieces of battlefield debris. A list of the relevant descriptions and rules for battlefield debris can be found opposite. Each fortification can purchase a single Battlement & Battlefield upgrade from the list below. These are placed either on the fortification’s battlements (if it is a building with battlements) or any where on the tabletop that is wholly within 6" of their fortification."

ADL is considered battlefield debris, so purchasing it with another fortification, it needs to be wholly within 6" of that fortifications.

The ADL by itself would need to have the walls in base contact with one another as it is considered a single piece of battlefield debris, the gun you use though can be anywhere wholly within 6"


Under Battlefield Debris however it states:
"...battlefield debris that can be purchased as an upgrade to a fortification *or as a fortification in their own right.*"

It is further stated that the ADL is "...Up to 4 long and 4 short Aegis Defence Line sections. Each section of defence line must be in contact with *at least* one other section

So RAW the ADL can be purchased as a stand alone item(s) from 2-8 sections in composition and each section has to touch at least one other section but could touch more if you so desire it.

of course an FAQ could change that but as of the 27May2014 FAQ it has not.

that's my take.
   
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Maj.Lee Scrude wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BATTLEMENTS & BATTLEFIELD
Quoting from Stronghold Assault

"Battlement & Battlefield upgrades are single pieces of battlefield debris. A list of the relevant descriptions and rules for battlefield debris can be found opposite. Each fortification can purchase a single Battlement & Battlefield upgrade from the list below. These are placed either on the fortification’s battlements (if it is a building with battlements) or any where on the tabletop that is wholly within 6" of their fortification."

ADL is considered battlefield debris, so purchasing it with another fortification, it needs to be wholly within 6" of that fortifications.

The ADL by itself would need to have the walls in base contact with one another as it is considered a single piece of battlefield debris, the gun you use though can be anywhere wholly within 6"


Under Battlefield Debris however it states:
"...battlefield debris that can be purchased as an upgrade to a fortification *or as a fortification in their own right.*"

It is further stated that the ADL is "...Up to 4 long and 4 short Aegis Defence Line sections. Each section of defence line must be in contact with *at least* one other section

So RAW the ADL can be purchased as a stand alone item(s) from 2-8 sections in composition and each section has to touch at least one other section but could touch more if you so desire it.

of course an FAQ could change that but as of the 27May2014 FAQ it has not.

that's my take.


Yes, this is my understanding as well and how I have been using it

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Zodiark wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Zodiark wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
Zodiark wrote:
 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Zodiark wrote:
You won't need the Stronghold codex tbh, ADL stats and everything it can do are all in BRB. If you want the bigger and badder stuff, get the codex


The points costs are not in the BRB; fielding Bastions and ADLs and just about every older piece other than the skyshield can only be fielded via the BRB as Battlefield terrain, not fortifications.

As for a distaste in buying Stronghold assault, a community copy for your gaming group is not a bad idea. Every player in your group can take the datasheets therein so there is no reason for everyone to have their own copy(assuming you have a common group).


Considering that is where I got mine, I would disagree. I knew the points for my Aegis and I never heard of a codex it until today

What's the page number of where the ADL points are listed in the 7th edition BRB?
IE - the datasheet. I'm aware it was in the 6th edition BRB.


Dunno, haven't bought 7th, still using 6th for the most part, nobody specified which BRB to use as a majority are still on 6th I assumed you'd check there as well. Nothing changed for anything listed in 6th that I've noticed but I haven't fully read the codex for forts yet

...
The "majority" are not still on 6th. The thread is about 7th edition. Telling people they don't need SA for ADLs in 7th is absolutely false.


Reading comprehension, use it. Nowhere in the beginning of the thread does it say 7th and all 3 of my LGS are primarily on 6th and the bulk of the players I know online from other forums and some here prefer 6th to 7th so they stick with 6th, others do a sort of 6.5 so please, read thoroughly before posting.

Also, until an FAQ specifically states that the walls do not need to be next to one another, you should play as if they should be, though it is a little weird as even on the box they are separated but GW thinks like a business, not like a player


Reading Comprehension, use it, it was obvious from the first post that the OP is talking about the 7th edition rules. Inquisitor Jex(the OP) has been a member here since 2012, meaning he has been a member and discussing rules all through 6th; Having "read the rule book (well, half-read, half browsed the second half)" would mean the new rule book, or 7th edition.

This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
 
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