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Well, one of the clubs I go to is hosted in the function room of a Cricket Club on the outskirts of town. - We only end up sharing it with the cricketers in the summer, the rest of the year we have Monday nights to ourselves.

The other one, Pork Chop Gaming is in a nightclub/pub on a Tuesday, one of the days the nightclub isn't open.

It's because we are all swarthy rugged individualists who eschew
socialized endeavors beyond the bounds of "capitalism."

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Community centers? Too expensive when it will be at least $100 (and that's only for four hours), so that price adds up a lot over time.

You say that like it's unique to America. Large community centres often have fees for hiring them out, and also don't give you particularly long (well, for wargamers who can easily spend 8 hours pushing models around a table). This is where you form a 'club' and collect 'membership fees'. This is usually done when club signups reach a certain amount. For example, if you want to book that hall out for 8 hours, and it's $200 for that, you'd not want people to spend more than $20 on a fee. So you wait until your club signup has 10 members. Then ask for the fees and book the centre. If you end up getting more people, either average out the fee or put the extra towards terrain for the club and/or holding it to cover the hire fees if less than your optimal amount of people turn up. If you make or buy terrain for the club, store said terrain at a trustworthy club members house in their garage/shed/basement/etc.

It takes effort organising and maintaining a club, but its not exactly difficult. Mostly just time consuming making sure you will have the members and keeping track of the club kitty and terrain.

Anecdotally as well as all the research I have seen on the issue - gaming in general in the US is much more decentralized than it is outside of the US (to a large extent, this applies to Canada as well - and I suspect Australia...though the data for those regions is even more sparse).

Most people do not play in stores or clubs, but play in small groups that gather at peoples homes. We tend to have the space to play at home, and enjoy the ability to play what we want, when we want to.

Many of these groups are clubs in their own right - though not necessarily by name. Average size of gaming groups is 7 people based off from a recent paper (dealing with the larger "table top games" category which includes card, board and RPG games). Proper clubs are still prominent among historical gamers, and they do tend to dabble in science fiction and fantasy games. There are well over 250 gaming clubs registered with HMGS in the US.

Also remember, while the idea of a gaming club might seem pretty great, most clubs are not a club that you can just show up anytime you want to to play. They tend to have scheduled game nights - once a week or less often, and although you can be pretty sure to get a game on one of those nights, you can also get a game without much difficulty at a US game store that has in store gaming...or even just doing cold calls to your usual suspects in your local group to see if they are free to play with their toys on any given night.
_______________

Regarding the cost issues - the $100 for 4 hours is actually pretty cheap compared to a lot of clubs. Compel gave some insight into his local group - even at the low end of $4 for 15 people - that is $60. Most event centers provide discounts when you are a recurring customer versus a one time deal (they no they can count on the money coming in on a regular basis). You also can get special deals if you play your cards right. Several years back, we used to rent out the small hall at the VFW. Regular rate was $75 for the night (night being from 6 till close - normally around midnight). You also had access to a bar and a bartender with a kitchen that served up bar foods. However, as a VFW member, I got 50% off the rental. I also worked with the management to figure out which night they were least busy and had them knock it down to $30 per night provided that everyone bought at least one drink (didn't have to be alcoholic - just something to drink over the course of 6 hours of gaming...not a hard proposition). We had 13 regulars who played, so it ended up being less than $3 per person for the night, plus they would usually by dinner of sorts (burger and fries or some sort of fried fish or chicken) as well as several drinks (over the course of 6 hours - you get a might bit thirsty).

Made the VFW happy because they were able to keep busy on an otherwise slow night. Made the gamers happy, because we had plenty of room and a fully stocked bar to keep our bellies full. Parking was simple (unlike a lot of game stores) and the hours were excellent. It didn't really take all that much effort to get sorted out either. I think I maybe spent about 30 minutes on the phone with the hall manager, and then signed some papers. I didn't worry too much about rigid club dues - as if we were short on any given night, the remainder was something that I could cover out of my own pocket if I had to.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

I wonder if Americans aren't just a little bit suspicious of clubs because there are plenty of negative associations with the term "club". I have no data to back this up other than my own limited experience, but clubs, and the people who were part of clubs, carried a stigma for much of my life. As far as I knew clubs involved bikers, or street racing groups who would conduct illegal activities or were full of the elderly doing charitable work (such as the Kiwanis Club). None of which were activities I wanted to be a part of. Perhaps it is the term itself that puts Americans off? At best clubs seem quaint and boring and at worse they appear dangerous and illicit, conjuring up images of secret societies with complicated handshakes and bizarre initiation rituals.

It is much easier and less questionable to announce to friends and family that you are going down to the local shop for a few hours than it is to admit that you are part of a gaming club--which is a shame. Given the choice between haunting an LGS and hoping for a pick up game with a stranger, or being a member of a gaming group that meets regularly and shares the costs of gaming, I'd pick the second option every time. Every time. If I am not alone in sharing this stigma with the term club, then perhaps us Yanks need to come up with an alternate term to avoid funny looks from our non-gaming associates.

The main reason why we game at stores is the amount of space our retailers have to put in gaming tables and host events. I know of some retailers that have enough space to fit 50+ players (A51 in Grapevine Texas) and most at least can fit 12. At tournaments they host, prizes are given in store credit. They do the same for Magic and other games. It's a gamer culture, not a specific game.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Community centers? Too expensive when it will be at least $100 (and that's only for four hours), so that price adds up a lot over time.

You say that like it's unique to America.

The difference is that the venue is provided for us for free (the game store) and then 3-4 guys will get together and make terrain for people to use.

I object to Ireland not being considered part of Europe.

dereksatkinson wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

I wonder if Americans aren't just a little bit suspicious of clubs because there are plenty of negative associations with the term "club". I have no data to back this up other than my own limited experience, but clubs, and the people who were part of clubs, carried a stigma for much of my life. As far as I knew clubs involved bikers, or street racing groups who would conduct illegal activities or were full of the elderly doing charitable work (such as the Kiwanis Club). None of which were activities I wanted to be a part of. Perhaps it is the term itself that puts Americans off? At best clubs seem quaint and boring and at worse they appear dangerous and illicit, conjuring up images of secret societies with complicated handshakes and bizarre initiation rituals.

It is much easier and less questionable to announce to friends and family that you are going down to the local shop for a few hours than it is to admit that you are part of a gaming club--which is a shame. Given the choice between haunting an LGS and hoping for a pick up game with a stranger, or being a member of a gaming group that meets regularly and shares the costs of gaming, I'd pick the second option every time. Every time. If I am not alone in sharing this stigma with the term club, then perhaps us Yanks need to come up with an alternate term to avoid funny looks from our non-gaming associates.

The main reason why we game at stores is the amount of space our retailers have to put in gaming tables and host events. I know of some retailers that have enough space to fit 50+ players (A51 in Grapevine Texas) and most at least can fit 12. At tournaments they host, prizes are given in store credit. They do the same for Magic and other games. It's a gamer culture, not a specific game.

Is this a quoting error? I am not following how your response connects with my musings.

Europe (and particularly the UK) is a lot more crowded than the US. Property is very expensive, especially in town centres, so lots of space for gaming tables is probably not that profitable, especially given the close proximity of GWs you need to compete with.

Yeah I reckon they were on about the European gaming comminuty, not anything polirical.

They probably thought the store sucked, and meant it like "these guys all play at home and make clubs and stuff"

At least, I would think that. GW stores suck, I mean, what do they have.. 4 tables max?

Yanks play at the store, so the stores are way better. I live near GE and its fething brilliant, hands down better than any store I have ever been in back home barring GWHQ.

So they probably meant "yeah this store is a bit small, no wonder they all made clubs at play at each others houses"

Nothing to get pissed about obviously.

"When nations are determined to dislike one another they do not let justice or veracity stand in the way..."

I dunno, I'm still turning it over in my head, and to me it sounds like one of the most pretentious, asinine, typical tourist comments possible... so I apologize on behalf of my fellow Americans for that.

I think the amount of retail space available in the US is the difference in culture. I have not travelled extensively abroad, but I would be willing to wager that game stores in the UK who can display 4-5 complete model ranges, plus extensive traditional board games, plus 3-4 aisles of comics, plus card games and their sections are fairly rare. Ones that could do that and then set aside space for 5-6 full-size gaming tables are probably hen's teeth. While I'm extremely fortunate, I can think of 3 stores in 40 minute drive that do all of that. I can then add another 2-3 in roughly that radius that have 2-3 tables available and a smattering of other ranges (not as many or as thoroughly stocked).

From a commercial standpoint, this works out well for the stores. The gamers serve as free marketing by showing how fun a given game can be. The store has a venue for events which they can do prizes for on a regular basis and get registration fees. Vending machines turn a nice profit off gamers as they snag a snack between games. Sales of models increase as people play and want to bolster their force or are in a celebratory mood. With the advent of online discounters, providing that place to play gives them an argument on why a consumer should pay closer to retail instead of saving money.

So, with the game stores providing that location out of enlightened self-interest, there's really not the push to create a formalized "club" to pool resources and share burdens like there would be if that option wasn't there. The stores have taken up that role and done it well, mainly because of the ability to do so (can't give space you don't have) and the commercial interests in doing so as a service differentiator and revenue generator in its own right.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
I wonder if Americans aren't just a little bit suspicious of clubs because there are plenty of negative associations with the term "club". I have no data to back this up other than my own limited experience, but clubs, and the people who were part of clubs, carried a stigma for much of my life. As far as I knew clubs involved bikers, or street racing groups who would conduct illegal activities or were full of the elderly doing charitable work (such as the Kiwanis Club). None of which were activities I wanted to be a part of. Perhaps it is the term itself that puts Americans off? At best clubs seem quaint and boring and at worse they appear dangerous and illicit, conjuring up images of secret societies with complicated handshakes and bizarre initiation rituals.

It is much easier and less questionable to announce to friends and family that you are going down to the local shop for a few hours than it is to admit that you are part of a gaming club--which is a shame. Given the choice between haunting an LGS and hoping for a pick up game with a stranger, or being a member of a gaming group that meets regularly and shares the costs of gaming, I'd pick the second option every time. Every time. If I am not alone in sharing this stigma with the term club, then perhaps us Yanks need to come up with an alternate term to avoid funny looks from our non-gaming associates.

You maybe onto something. Perhaps we should start refering to them as Gangs?

"I'm going to go hang out with my Gang down at the strip mall."

That sounds waaaaay cooler!

 Easy E wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
I wonder if Americans aren't just a little bit suspicious of clubs because there are plenty of negative associations with the term "club". I have no data to back this up other than my own limited experience, but clubs, and the people who were part of clubs, carried a stigma for much of my life. As far as I knew clubs involved bikers, or street racing groups who would conduct illegal activities or were full of the elderly doing charitable work (such as the Kiwanis Club). None of which were activities I wanted to be a part of. Perhaps it is the term itself that puts Americans off? At best clubs seem quaint and boring and at worse they appear dangerous and illicit, conjuring up images of secret societies with complicated handshakes and bizarre initiation rituals.

It is much easier and less questionable to announce to friends and family that you are going down to the local shop for a few hours than it is to admit that you are part of a gaming club--which is a shame. Given the choice between haunting an LGS and hoping for a pick up game with a stranger, or being a member of a gaming group that meets regularly and shares the costs of gaming, I'd pick the second option every time. Every time. If I am not alone in sharing this stigma with the term club, then perhaps us Yanks need to come up with an alternate term to avoid funny looks from our non-gaming associates.

You maybe onto something. Perhaps we should start refering to them as Gangs?

"I'm going to go hang out with my Gang down at the strip mall."

That sounds waaaaay cooler!

I proposed the term circle to some of my friends, but then they just called me a jerk.