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Did I miss something? Did someone rip his arms off in fluff or something? If so, can someone explain to me how the Chaos Ascendant had that happen to him while he was holding Drachn'yen and the Talon of Horus?

The guy is a walking blender. His arms are the blades. Who the hell grabbed his blades and said "NOPE! These are mine!" And on top of that, how does still have Drachn'yen without any arms? And how did he win his 13th Black Crusade without any arms? (unofficially, because my understanding is the Global Campaign got rolled back since Chaos crushed Cadia without so much as a fight. On second thought, I'll bet the redo was so they could have Imperial Nights and Astra Militarum show up to "tell it like it really is," which is GW's way of saying "Chaos, go back to the hole you crawled out of. We don't like. Meh. )

To keep the thread interesting and going (since the above is easily answerable) I'll also add this: Abbadon vs ???? Who could realistically (fluff wise) kill the Chaos Ascendant (Emperor excluded).

And lets leave out the "Well he's not a Primarch, so he's not that great." The dude is Warmaster now. Whether or not he has the Mark of a Primarch or not, he IS the Chosen of Chaos. There is obviously a very good reason for that. And with his swollen proportions, I'd say he's on par with Primarchs now or at least should be treated as such since what I've seen so far from the community paints Abbadon as a joke.

There is also this problem I have with guys like Yarrick supposedly being able to stand toe-to-toe with Abbadon. The guys presence alone would make mortals rip their brains out, but Commisar Yarick or most other Loyalist Commanders don't have this problem? Are these guys also immune to things like Skarbrands rage and the Keeper of Secrets lure?

Not specifically talking table top (in terms of fluffy fighting), however I am also including table top discussion on this in regards to his model, performance, etc.

And why the crap does the Talon of Horus only have a combi-bolter built in? Wtf?! Aren't the Space Marines making custom bolters and such with special this and that? Yet the Talon of Horus, weapon of the Warmaster Horus that felled Sanguinus....is packing standard issue like his troops? Maybe I'm looking too much into it (seeing as how it is essentially a Lightening Claw/Power Fist/TWIN-LINKED BOLTGUN all rolled into one. Thoughts on this as well?

Hopefully this'll keep the thread light hearted and entertaining amidst the Heldrake lamentation and Helbrute restrategizing.

LOL. I feel like you started playing chaos after Abaddon was switched to fine cast

 Silverthorne wrote:
LOL. I feel like you started playing chaos after Abaddon was switched to fine cast

You would probably be correct. I picked up the table-top at 6th Ed Chaos Codex. Like, right on the day it dropped. And I was happy until try-hards made me regret my decision. First game I played? Necron douche-bag threw a monolith at my newly purchased Dark Vengeance Chaos....then he started making up rules. It wasn't a good first experience, but I do love my CSM's, even if they are in pieces now and getting dumped on by GW at every turn.

Although, I gotta say, 7th ed made me feel like they wanted to help Chaos some. Unfortunately, they beat us with the same hand in nerfs and those "buffs" went to everyone as well. ><

Maybe I'm selfish, but I'd like to see Chaos have something go purely their way for once. Psychic phase could have been that, but Daemons do it better, and then you've got other factions who can turn out way more Warp Charges than a collection of Sorcerers.

Original metal cast had a separate drachn'yen that attached at the wrist. It was held on by the fickle wills of The Big Four and a lot of praying.

His original model was difficult to keep the arms on, that's where the joke originates. I like to think Abbadon the armless is because Eldrad chopped his arms off during the thirteenth black crusades failed attempt at breaching the web way.

Redseer wrote:
His original model was difficult to keep the arms on, that's where the joke originates. I like to think Abbadon the armless is because Eldrad chopped his arms off during the thirteenth black crusades failed attempt at breaching the web way.

Now THAT is the story I kept hearing. It confused the crap out of me because I was going "Ok, now I've gotta read this." Screw Eldrad....friggin space fairies....all of them. XD

Huron Blackheart controls the largest organized Chaos Marine and renegade fleet outside of the Eye of Terror. He's easily the biggest contender that Abaddon has outside of the Daemon Primarchs.

one of Abaddon's biggest issues, fluff wise I mean, is the perception of his many failures. There are many in universe instances were characters consider the fact that Abaddon is gathering forces for a 13th black crusade to mean that the prior 12 have failed. There's just one problem with this: With the exception of gaining control of the Blackstone fortresses, we have never been told of any of the Black Crusades' objectives.

In the Pandorax book Abaddon led an invasion of a world that housed a powerful chaos artifact, rumored to be one of the most power artefacts in all of creation. That artefact was used to open a sealed warp prison on the planet that could basically just vomit a daemon army on command. Oh and in that same prison was an uber-greater daemon of Nurgle, like Nurgle's chief commander or something. He was a major major daemonic power. Guess what? none of those were Abaddon's real objective. What was he after? he was after the guardian of that warp prison, a grey knight from 10,000 years ago. Let me repeat that: Taking control of a planet that's one of the major supply routes to Cadia, which housed a massive warp prison that contained billions of daemon inside along with one of the super-big baddies of the warp.... those were Abaddon's "Those would be nice to have" extras. No, he launched the entire invasion because he believed the rumors of an Alpha level psyker who was one of the original 12 grand masters of the Grey Knights.

So play this scene through your mind:

You're Azreal of the Dark Angles (The DAs were the ones who responded to the distress for the planet). You're in command of the reconquest forces. You see Abaddon moving his forces toward the location of a "Push a button and make an army" daemon cache. It's a fairly logical assumption that gaining control of that ability IS Abaddon's objective. Oh and the nice bonus of having the allegiance of the big-baddie that's trapped inside of said cache. So you move to cut him off and deny him his prize. You fail and Abaddon manages to take control of the cache and you start fighting daemons. So you pull back and re-evaluate your plans and strategy. You launch a counter offensive which managed to breaks Abaddon's supply lines. Abaddon retreats and you manage to take control of the cache, reseal and banish that big-ugly mofo that came out of it.

Hey great job! We saved the planet and beat abaddon!

'Cept keeping control of the cache wasn't his primary goal. Did you beat him? In one sense you did, and you have a valid justification in feeling the accomplishment. But again, did Abaddon fail in achieving his objective?

That's the issue with Abaddon in-universe.

Abaddon: "Hey I'm preparing to launch my 13th black crusade. What do you want to ensure you'll take part in it?"

Randon Chaos Lord: "Your 13th black crusade? So you've failed 12 times now?"

What were the objectives of the last 12? In the 12th he wanted to gain control of the Black Stone fortresses. 1 was destroyed, 2 were lost in the warp and the 4th? Is in Abaddon's hands, though there's questions as to weather it functions any longer. There's been suggestions that the first or third crusade was launched solely so Abaddon could take control of Drach'Nyen but those suggestions are unconfirmed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
Huron Blackheart controls the largest organized Chaos Marine and renegade fleet outside of the Eye of Terror. He's easily the biggest contender that Abaddon has outside of the Daemon Primarchs.

In the Pandorax audio drama it's implied that while Huron does control the largest organized chaos marine grouping outside of the Eye of terror, Abaddon is several steps ahead of Huron and knows his resources and ambitions, but doesn't consider him a threat to his position.

The other captains saw him naked in the shower, since then they called him "the armless"

Maverike_prime wrote:


In the Pandorax audio drama it's implied that while Huron does control the largest organized chaos marine grouping outside of the Eye of terror, Abaddon is several steps ahead of Huron and knows his resources and ambitions, but doesn't consider him a threat to his position.

Arrogance can blind people. And I like rooting for the Underdog. Plus, Blackheart is just flatout a more interesting character.

I can confirm some of the Black Crusade objectives, which your right, are all extremely confused from the outside perspective of...well anyone really who isn't Chaos. But such is the way of Chaos that a scheme so great took 12 Crusades to set the stage for a final 13th that would see Terra burn, per the Liber Malefact, which is supposed to put all of this into perspective.

Correct, first Black Crusade was to get Drachn'yen.
Another was to purge Cancephalus and Antecannis of military power, crippling nearby Cadia further.
There was also the death of the Kromarch and his palace + soldiery and guard.
Then there is the more recent of the crusades over the Blackstone Fortresses (which he has 2 of in somewhat functioning order, according to our Codex) and is leveraging against Cadia.
Oh, almost forgot the one that made the Blood Angels sad: In one particular Crusade, Abaddon and the Black Legion singled out a massive Blood Angels Devestator position, which saw a massive loss of gene-seeds for the Blood Angels.

Essentially, every Black Crusade so far has been an "envenomed blade" as the Codex puts it, that cripples the Imperium in lynch pin positions at every turn and ultimately is taking apart Cadia's defensive abilities. While loyalists might think "Oh there goes dumb Abaddon again," I can't believe there is a single Chaos Lord that thinks less of him, including Huron Blackheart.

In fact, if you look at the map, I'd argue that Huron Blackheart, while possibly in a position to take up the banner of Warmaster after Abbadon (and it is possible that Huron does that himself through some treachery and deceit by the Ruinous Powers who have invested Huron with unusually gifts already [like the Hamadrya]), however it seems much more likely based on positioning that Huron is the flanking force that will buckle the Imperium as it tries to hold a failing Cadia open.

On top of that, it is reported in the Chaos Codex that Segmentum Pacificus has fallen and Astropaths all over the Imperium are having their minds fried from a combination of rampant distress signals and the Chaos Gods themselves laughing at the Choirs in their own minds.

I can also say that with the way the Imperium is portrayed scrapping every last thing they can to throw at Cadia, that while Chapter Masters and Seargants may be laughing at the presumed failures of Abbadon, the High Lords of Terra are soiling their Depends. lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

Maverike_prime wrote:


In the Pandorax audio drama it's implied that while Huron does control the largest organized chaos marine grouping outside of the Eye of terror, Abaddon is several steps ahead of Huron and knows his resources and ambitions, but doesn't consider him a threat to his position.

Arrogance can blind people. And I like rooting for the Underdog. Plus, Blackheart is just flatout a more interesting character.

Check out "Treacheries of the Space Marines." There is a story about Huron Blackheart getting his Hamadrya and what he had to do to secure it's power. I believe it is every bit of possible that the Chaos Gods are setting Abbadon up, just the same way as they set up Horus, and Huron will be the new instigator of Black Crusades, Warp Breaches, etc. That said, he may not come to power or usurp Abbadon until after the fall of Terra, or perhaps during/right at the end. Such is the savvy of Huron Blackheart.

Edit: On second thought, there are other depictions of Huron Blackheart as being "driven mad by constant pain," after the implant of the Tyrants Claw. So he may not be mentally stable enough to take the charge of Warmaster. On a third thought, he may be crazy enough to take it after all. And on a fourth thought, I still think he is the Abbadon representation of the newer Chaos Warbands and their adventures near the Maelstrom, so they could break from the Eye of Terror campaigns and such. But it definitely looks and feels exactly like a flank, and even the information on Red Corsairs suggests as much. They act as smaller pirates (despite having an enormous fleet) and raid shipping lanes for the most part from the comfort of the Maelstrom, but when Huron's got something to say, he goes big or doesn't go at all.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:


Although, I gotta say, 7th ed made me feel like they wanted to help Chaos some. Unfortunately, they beat us with the same hand in nerfs and those "buffs" went to everyone as well. ><

Maybe I'm selfish, but I'd like to see Chaos have something go purely their way for once. Psychic phase could have been that, but Daemons do it better, and then you've got other factions who can turn out way more Warp Charges than a collection of Sorcerers.

I know it's only a half-answer since it's a fan-dex and all, but you may wanna check out my project thread "A new reign of Chaos!".

I have actually. lol. A bit confused on parts, but over all I like it. Getting closer to what I think the rest of us want, except that you've left out Legion tactics. XD

Someone had the idea of splitting the Codex up into "Books" which were dedicated one to each of the ruinous powers, and then Chaos Undivided/Legion Tactics for guys like Iron Warriors and Night Lords.

Basically, the idea was to give guys like the Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Marines, more individual units to make it feel like a Thousand Sons army...which as I type this I think I saw something similar in your codex actually. About how Tzeentch Terminators where really Rubricae Terminators and then if their sorcerer died they turned into the useless Rubricae we have now?

It's good stuff and very inspirational.

Edit: Favorite part? EVERYTHING GOT SOMETHING. Even if you went Unmarked, you got Orbital Bombardment, another one of those things the Loyalists have that I can't understand why Chaos can't have. We have the ships for it, but apparently not the bullets....or the drop pods for that matter, even though Dreadclaw Drop Pods were banned by the Imperium and embraced by the Traitors who decided to put Daemons in them to make them even meaner. lol

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
I have actually. lol. A bit confused on parts, but over all I like it. Getting closer to what I think the rest of us want, except that you've left out Legion tactics. XD

Someone had the idea of splitting the Codex up into "Books" which were dedicated one to each of the ruinous powers, and then Chaos Undivided/Legion Tactics for guys like Iron Warriors and Night Lords.

Basically, the idea was to give guys like the Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Marines, more individual units to make it feel like a Thousand Sons army...which as I type this I think I saw something similar in your codex actually. About how Tzeentch Terminators where really Rubricae Terminators and then if their sorcerer died they turned into the useless Rubricae we have now?

It's good stuff and very inspirational.

Edit: Favorite part? EVERYTHING GOT SOMETHING. Even if you went Unmarked, you got Orbital Bombardment, another one of those things the Loyalists have that I can't understand why Chaos can't have. We have the ships for it, but apparently not the bullets....or the drop pods for that matter, even though Dreadclaw Drop Pods were banned by the Imperium and embraced by the Traitors who decided to put Daemons in them to make them even meaner. lol

You've indirectly hit the nail on the head with one of the principle challenges in the project is: There isn't one unified view of how CHAOS should work. There's your view, my view, his view, her view, that other guys view, ect ect ect. How Cult armies should be, how Cultists should be, what about the Dark Adeptus, well they should be legions, no legions are gone, ect ect ect ect ect. I've already had a couple occasions where I had to come right out and say "Look, I'm the one assembling the book. I have the last word on what goes in it."

Maverike_prime wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
I have actually. lol. A bit confused on parts, but over all I like it. Getting closer to what I think the rest of us want, except that you've left out Legion tactics. XD

Someone had the idea of splitting the Codex up into "Books" which were dedicated one to each of the ruinous powers, and then Chaos Undivided/Legion Tactics for guys like Iron Warriors and Night Lords.

Basically, the idea was to give guys like the Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Marines, more individual units to make it feel like a Thousand Sons army...which as I type this I think I saw something similar in your codex actually. About how Tzeentch Terminators where really Rubricae Terminators and then if their sorcerer died they turned into the useless Rubricae we have now?

It's good stuff and very inspirational.

Edit: Favorite part? EVERYTHING GOT SOMETHING. Even if you went Unmarked, you got Orbital Bombardment, another one of those things the Loyalists have that I can't understand why Chaos can't have. We have the ships for it, but apparently not the bullets....or the drop pods for that matter, even though Dreadclaw Drop Pods were banned by the Imperium and embraced by the Traitors who decided to put Daemons in them to make them even meaner. lol

You've indirectly hit the nail on the head with one of the principle challenges in the project is: There isn't one unified view of how CHAOS should work. There's your view, my view, his view, her view, that other guys view, ect ect ect. How Cult armies should be, how Cultists should be, what about the Dark Adeptus, well they should be legions, no legions are gone, ect ect ect ect ect. I've already had a couple occasions where I had to come right out and say "Look, I'm the one assembling the book. I have the last word on what goes in it."

Werd. I think if Chaos players really wanted to do their armies justice, we would break up Chaos into as many books as the Loyalists do. So you'd have a book for say Chaos Undivided which covered legions like Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors and Night Lords. Then the CSM Cult Army book. Dark Mechanicum in relation to say, IG (of course that also leaves Traitor Guard, but I think Traitor Guard are fairly sumized by IG/AM codex. Perhaps have a footnote somewhere that says "Per your detachment, Traitor Legion can take those bonuses." So Traitor Legion of Thousand Sons get the AP3 guns, for example.) Note: I'm leaving Daemons off because they are perfect right where they are. lol, but the Chaos Space Marine side? Oh yeah. We're hurting for something better.

On that note, I also liked that everything could take a mark and get something out of it. Vehicles and Fliers included. That was slick. lol

Side note: About the Marks and choosing troops off of Reign of Chaos, that was a good blend letting the individual squads be affected by the marks differently. I can't specify right this second because it's 1:35 in the morning, my ankle is likely broke and I'm about to pass out, but it helped bring the Cult armies and Undivided armies into a single cohessive book.

Might I ask though, what is the Chaos Commander for? Just another IC unit to soak up challenges next to the lord? I noticed he got his own Mark bonuses as well. Am I dense and didn't realize that was to dual purpose an army? Lord sits on Artillery while Commander charges the battle lines? <--gonna go with that last one as best answer since I'm so tired-head right now.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

Maverike_prime wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
I have actually. lol. A bit confused on parts, but over all I like it. Getting closer to what I think the rest of us want, except that you've left out Legion tactics. XD

Someone had the idea of splitting the Codex up into "Books" which were dedicated one to each of the ruinous powers, and then Chaos Undivided/Legion Tactics for guys like Iron Warriors and Night Lords.

Basically, the idea was to give guys like the Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Marines, more individual units to make it feel like a Thousand Sons army...which as I type this I think I saw something similar in your codex actually. About how Tzeentch Terminators where really Rubricae Terminators and then if their sorcerer died they turned into the useless Rubricae we have now?

It's good stuff and very inspirational.

Edit: Favorite part? EVERYTHING GOT SOMETHING. Even if you went Unmarked, you got Orbital Bombardment, another one of those things the Loyalists have that I can't understand why Chaos can't have. We have the ships for it, but apparently not the bullets....or the drop pods for that matter, even though Dreadclaw Drop Pods were banned by the Imperium and embraced by the Traitors who decided to put Daemons in them to make them even meaner. lol

You've indirectly hit the nail on the head with one of the principle challenges in the project is: There isn't one unified view of how CHAOS should work. There's your view, my view, his view, her view, that other guys view, ect ect ect. How Cult armies should be, how Cultists should be, what about the Dark Adeptus, well they should be legions, no legions are gone, ect ect ect ect ect. I've already had a couple occasions where I had to come right out and say "Look, I'm the one assembling the book. I have the last word on what goes in it."

Werd. I think if Chaos players really wanted to do their armies justice, we would break up Chaos into as many books as the Loyalists do. So you'd have a book for say Chaos Undivided which covered legions like Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors and Night Lords. Then the CSM Cult Army book. Dark Mechanicum in relation to say, IG (of course that also leaves Traitor Guard, but I think Traitor Guard are fairly sumized by IG/AM codex. Perhaps have a footnote somewhere that says "Per your detachment, Traitor Legion can take those bonuses." So Traitor Legion of Thousand Sons get the AP3 guns, for example.) Note: I'm leaving Daemons off because they are perfect right where they are. lol, but the Chaos Space Marine side? Oh yeah. We're hurting for something better.

On that note, I also liked that everything could take a mark and get something out of it. Vehicles and Fliers included. That was slick. lol

Side note: About the Marks and choosing troops off of Reign of Chaos, that was a good blend letting the individual squads be affected by the marks differently. I can't specify right this second because it's 1:35 in the morning, my ankle is likely broke and I'm about to pass out, but it helped bring the Cult armies and Undivided armies into a single cohessive book.

Might I ask though, what is the Chaos Commander for? Just another IC unit to soak up challenges next to the lord? I noticed he got his own Mark bonuses as well. Am I dense and didn't realize that was to dual purpose an army? Lord sits on Artillery while Commander charges the battle lines? <--gonna go with that last one as best answer since I'm so tired-head right now.

okay you're going to need to explain how you broke your ankle while reading the posts on a forum. That sounds like it'll be an interesting story.

I need to rework some of the effects of the Marks because of the advent of 7th but they're mostly minor stuff.

As for the lord/Commander question, if you look at the stats of each you'll see that the Lord is broadly similar to a Chapter Master while a lord or somewhere between a Chaplin and company captain. Thats the big difference there. Giving players a choice between the uber tyrant king that is a Chaos Lord, and more reasonable but less power Chaos Commander. As for the commander getting his own Bonuses, what are you referring to?

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

Redseer wrote:
His original model was difficult to keep the arms on, that's where the joke originates. I like to think Abbadon the armless is because Eldrad chopped his arms off during the thirteenth black crusades failed attempt at breaching the web way.

Now THAT is the story I kept hearing. It confused the crap out of me because I was going "Ok, now I've gotta read this." Screw Eldrad....friggin space fairies....all of them. XD

I rather like the space elves, much more so than any other in game race. That battle was done in white dwarf during gws global campaign. Shortly after that though eldrad was killed in the Blackstone fortress so chaos got its revenge in the end.

Abaddon's model, as mentioned before, is terrible. It looks terrible, it's not as customizable as I would like, it's well past it's prime, and the god damn arms don't stay in. And the gigantic top knot makes him look silly. Though of course, I generally find top knots to be a ridiculous hairstyle and dislike them on the Eldar too and just barely tolerate them on the white scars. And as a final strike against Abaddon's model, his face makes him look like he's severely constipated.

I at first used Abaddon with Archaon's head but decided it'd be cooler looking to just use a Chaos termi-lord with a fancy cape, a badass helmet (I refuse to field him with that ugly ass topknot or that derpy expression on his otherwise bald gead), a sufficiently fancy sword, a pimped out chaos lightning claw on one hand with the appropriate decals, and a combi-bolter stuck to the back of the hand upside down.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Redseer wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

Redseer wrote:
His original model was difficult to keep the arms on, that's where the joke originates. I like to think Abbadon the armless is because Eldrad chopped his arms off during the thirteenth black crusades failed attempt at breaching the web way.

Now THAT is the story I kept hearing. It confused the crap out of me because I was going "Ok, now I've gotta read this." Screw Eldrad....friggin space fairies....all of them. XD

I rather like the space elves, much more so than any other in game race. That battle was done in white dwarf during gws global campaign. Shortly after that though eldrad was killed in the Blackstone fortress so chaos got its revenge in the end.

Except Eldrad's soulstone overwhelmed the Blackstone fortresses' systems and took over control of it.

So now the galaxy's greatest farsteer is now a planet destroying superweapon.

Whoops.

 Kain wrote:
Abaddon's model, as mentioned before, is terrible. It looks terrible, it's not as customizable as I would like, it's well past it's prime, and the god damn arms don't stay in. And the gigantic top knot makes him look silly. Though of course, I generally find top knots to be a ridiculous hairstyle and dislike them on the Eldar too and just barely tolerate them on the white scars. And as a final strike against Abaddon's model, his face makes him look like he's severely constipated.

I at first used Abaddon with Archaon's head but decided it'd be cooler looking to just use a Chaos termi-lord with a fancy cape, a badass helmet (I refuse to field him with that ugly ass topknot or that derpy expression on his otherwise bald gead), a sufficiently fancy sword, a pimped out chaos lightning claw on one hand with the appropriate decals, and a combi-bolter stuck to the back of the hand upside down.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Redseer wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

Redseer wrote:
His original model was difficult to keep the arms on, that's where the joke originates. I like to think Abbadon the armless is because Eldrad chopped his arms off during the thirteenth black crusades failed attempt at breaching the web way.

Now THAT is the story I kept hearing. It confused the crap out of me because I was going "Ok, now I've gotta read this." Screw Eldrad....friggin space fairies....all of them. XD

I rather like the space elves, much more so than any other in game race. That battle was done in white dwarf during gws global campaign. Shortly after that though eldrad was killed in the Blackstone fortress so chaos got its revenge in the end.

Except Eldrad's soulstone overwhelmed the Blackstone fortresses' systems and took over control of it.

So now the galaxy's greatest farsteer is now a planet destroying superweapon.

Whoops.

Eldrads stone took over 1 blackstone fortress. Abaddon had used all 4 to destroy a planet, so it's beleived that all four are needed for such an event. Abaddon now controls 1, 2 were destroyed, and the one that ate Eldrad vanish and may not functional. Besides, Abaddon still has the Planet Killer.

Abaddon isn't that 'armless. He's only MOSTLY 'armless.

Kyutaru wrote:
Abaddon isn't that 'armless. He's only MOSTLY 'armless.

Thank you Ford.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
Huron Blackheart controls the largest organized Chaos Marine and renegade fleet outside of the Eye of Terror. He's easily the biggest contender that Abaddon has outside of the Daemon Primarchs.

Not to mention that Huron actually has a pretty good record of kicking ass. Most of Abaddon's crusades have been nothing more than logistic runs with only a couple comprising actual campaigns. And while Abaddon does have a foothold on Cadia, Blackheart has been living a life of piracy and sacking Imperium ships left and right while also boosting his warband to near that of a full strength legion. Hell you can even argue that he bounced back from his only real defeat and the melta gun incident stronger than ever.

Maverike_prime wrote:
okay you're going to need to explain how you broke your ankle while reading the posts on a forum. That sounds like it'll be an interesting story.

I need to rework some of the effects of the Marks because of the advent of 7th but they're mostly minor stuff.

As for the lord/Commander question, if you look at the stats of each you'll see that the Lord is broadly similar to a Chapter Master while a lord or somewhere between a Chaplin and company captain. Thats the big difference there. Giving players a choice between the uber tyrant king that is a Chaos Lord, and more reasonable but less power Chaos Commander. As for the commander getting his own Bonuses, what are you referring to?

I was fighting a storm trooper riding dino-back and took an arrow to the knee because I was dumb enough to wear a red jumper at the time. XD That's the story I'm sticking to for now. Can't believe that the one time I get into a fight with a Storm Trooper, he actually manages to hit something. I blame the jumper though.

That makes sense between Lord and Commander. I thought I read in the fandex that marking a Commander would give him similar boosts the way Marks do for Lords and etc. So unmarked Commander (unless I'm wrong) can have Orbital Bombardment as well.

As for Eldrad and the Blackstone Fortresses, quick question: You mentioned White Dwarf and a relation to the global campaign. Was this a fan story that got retconned or is Eldrad still floating around space in a Blackstone Fortress? Follow up to that is, does anyone have any idea how many Blackstone Fortresses there are?

One person I've heard said Abbadon went after 4, but lost two to the warp, one blew up and he walked away with another. Meanwhile, in the CSM-dex, it mentions Abbadon laying into Cadia with two Blackstone Fortresses.

So what's the accurate answer there, and aside from the obvious (their big bad things) what are these Fortresses supposed to actually be/do? I get that short answer is "blow stuff up" but how exactly?

True to Chaos form, I picture them being driven into things and not blowing themselves up. Like space-born wrecking balls.

He never managed to do any real damage.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

Maverike_prime wrote:
okay you're going to need to explain how you broke your ankle while reading the posts on a forum. That sounds like it'll be an interesting story.

I need to rework some of the effects of the Marks because of the advent of 7th but they're mostly minor stuff.

As for the lord/Commander question, if you look at the stats of each you'll see that the Lord is broadly similar to a Chapter Master while a lord or somewhere between a Chaplin and company captain. Thats the big difference there. Giving players a choice between the uber tyrant king that is a Chaos Lord, and more reasonable but less power Chaos Commander. As for the commander getting his own Bonuses, what are you referring to?

I was fighting a storm trooper riding dino-back and took an arrow to the knee because I was dumb enough to wear a red jumper at the time. XD That's the story I'm sticking to for now. Can't believe that the one time I get into a fight with a Storm Trooper, he actually manages to hit something. I blame the jumper though.

That makes sense between Lord and Commander. I thought I read in the fandex that marking a Commander would give him similar boosts the way Marks do for Lords and etc. So unmarked Commander (unless I'm wrong) can have Orbital Bombardment as well.

As for Eldrad and the Blackstone Fortresses, quick question: You mentioned White Dwarf and a relation to the global campaign. Was this a fan story that got retconned or is Eldrad still floating around space in a Blackstone Fortress? Follow up to that is, does anyone have any idea how many Blackstone Fortresses there are?

One person I've heard said Abbadon went after 4, but lost two to the warp, one blew up and he walked away with another. Meanwhile, in the CSM-dex, it mentions Abbadon laying into Cadia with two Blackstone Fortresses.

So what's the accurate answer there, and aside from the obvious (their big bad things) what are these Fortresses supposed to actually be/do? I get that short answer is "blow stuff up" but how exactly?

True to Chaos form, I picture them being driven into things and not blowing themselves up. Like space-born wrecking balls.

The Black Stone fortress are built around ancient Eldar constructs intended to destroy a Necron Obelisk network that was intended to separate the warp from the mortal realm forever. The Obilisks are the spread through the galaxy but there is a concentration of them on Cadia. This concentration is what gives Cadia it's strategic position at the head of a stable way into the eye. The core of the Black stone fortresses were built to counter the Necron efforts during the War in heaven. Over time the Eldar lost control of them and mankind acquired them and built ontop of them creating what we not see as the Black Stone fortresses. I'm not aware of it being explicitly explained how the fortresses destroyed a planet, just that it was stated that using all four of them did accomplish that goal. There was a fan-theory out there that explained it as using the fortresses in concert against a planet that had several of the Necron obelisks creates a kind of vibration as the two opposing forces try to out muscle one another until the planet literally breaks apart.

And yes Abaddon did go after all four, had all four a short while. I thought he got away with 1 while Eldrad merged with another rendering it unusable for Abaddon's purposes, and 2 were lost.

As for the question about the White Dwarf, in the mid-90s Games workshop ran a year long global campaign title "Eye of Terror". it was meant to be THE 13th Black Crusade. At the conclusion of that they establish that Eldrad was gone (never did say if he was dead or not) and Abaddon had a commanding foothold on Cadia (which actually ran in the face of the recorded results for the campaign because in that Chaos absolutely over-ran Cadia and curb stomped everything in it's way there).

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
Huron Blackheart controls the largest organized Chaos Marine and renegade fleet outside of the Eye of Terror. He's easily the biggest contender that Abaddon has outside of the Daemon Primarchs.

Not to mention that Huron actually has a pretty good record of kicking ass. Most of Abaddon's crusades have been nothing more than logistic runs with only a couple comprising actual campaigns. And while Abaddon does have a foothold on Cadia, Blackheart has been living a life of piracy and sacking Imperium ships left and right while also boosting his warband to near that of a full strength legion. Hell you can even argue that he bounced back from his only real defeat and the melta gun incident stronger than ever.

I may have mentioned this hear before, though I know I have definitely put this out about Huron and what I've seen so far.

It is suggested that while the Tyrant is a considerable threat, he is currently being driven mad by the pain caused by his implant. On top of that, he is located in a completely different sector of space (the Maelstrom) and has been inacting a very secretive and dark vision. In "Treacheries of the Space Marines" there is a story of Huron trapping a Chaos Sorcerers soul in a bottle to feed the Hamadrya so that he could reach out from the Maelstrom without losing his power or "food" for the Hamadrya. In this instance, it definitely seems as though he's poised to take out something significant like Macragge or what not. On top of that, his pirate fleets typically operate in small, independent warbands. When Huron himself ventures out, that's when the Legion sized forces, shocking strategy and horrific goals emerge.

With Segmentum Pacificus being overrun, Astropaths dying in droves, Psykers emerging in unprecedented numbers, the Thousand Sons leaving the Webway in Legion strength and Abbadon knock, knock, knocking on Cadia's door, what you see looking down on all of this is a noose slowly closing around the Imperiums neck. And wouldn't it be fitting to find out, just as Horus' purpose was to cripple the Emperor and forge the Chaos Space Marines, that Abbadons work be to finish that job, rebirth the Emperor as a Chaos God, and then subsequently be killed and replaced by the arisen, Huron Blackheart? Because with Hamadrya, Huron DEFINITELY has the Chaos Gods blessings. To what end, becomes the question.

There is also the whole deal about Ahriman killing the Ruinous 4 and then embodying them all, which I believe is also a ploy by Tzeentch to counter the Emperors rebirth, but that is a whole convoluted story for another time.

I've got some really deep theories about what is actually going on, and it can only be understood from an immortal perspective which the Ruinous Powers are the sole proprietors of. Basically, the reason why all of this looks disjointed and nonsensical is because Chaos is playing a game that has lasted over 10,000+ years. The Imperium has no benchmark for something like that. They can only act in a life time, while the lifetime of Chaos is eternal.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
He never managed to do any real damage.

Oh no, with the 13th Black Crusade he's done horrific damage by breaching the Cadian gate and setting foot on Cadia. The problem is that the 13th Black Crusade is the first time he's made an actual notable victory besides previous logistic runs labeled crusades or failed battles.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
Huron Blackheart controls the largest organized Chaos Marine and renegade fleet outside of the Eye of Terror. He's easily the biggest contender that Abaddon has outside of the Daemon Primarchs.

Not to mention that Huron actually has a pretty good record of kicking ass. Most of Abaddon's crusades have been nothing more than logistic runs with only a couple comprising actual campaigns. And while Abaddon does have a foothold on Cadia, Blackheart has been living a life of piracy and sacking Imperium ships left and right while also boosting his warband to near that of a full strength legion. Hell you can even argue that he bounced back from his only real defeat and the melta gun incident stronger than ever.

I may have mentioned this hear before, though I know I have definitely put this out about Huron and what I've seen so far.

It is suggested that while the Tyrant is a considerable threat, he is currently being driven mad by the pain caused by his implant. On top of that, he is located in a completely different sector of space (the Maelstrom) and has been inacting a very secretive and dark vision. In "Treacheries of the Space Marines" there is a story of Huron trapping a Chaos Sorcerers soul in a bottle to feed the Hamadrya so that he could reach out from the Maelstrom without losing his power or "food" for the Hamadrya. In this instance, it definitely seems as though he's poised to take out something significant like Macragge or what not. On top of that, his pirate fleets typically operate in small, independent warbands. When Huron himself ventures out, that's when the Legion sized forces, shocking strategy and horrific goals emerge.

With Segmentum Pacificus being overrun, Astropaths dying in droves, Psykers emerging in unprecedented numbers, the Thousand Sons leaving the Webway in Legion strength and Abbadon knock, knock, knocking on Cadia's door, what you see looking down on all of this is a noose slowly closing around the Imperiums neck. And wouldn't it be fitting to find out, just as Horus' purpose was to cripple the Emperor and forge the Chaos Space Marines, that Abbadons work be to finish that job, rebirth the Emperor as a Chaos God, and then subsequently be killed and replaced by the arisen, Huron Blackheart? Because with Hamadrya, Huron DEFINITELY has the Chaos Gods blessings. To what end, becomes the question.

There is also the whole deal about Ahriman killing the Ruinous 4 and then embodying them all, which I believe is also a ploy by Tzeentch to counter the Emperors rebirth, but that is a whole convoluted story for another time.

I've got some really deep theories about what is actually going on, and it can only be understood from an immortal perspective which the Ruinous Powers are the sole proprietors of. Basically, the reason why all of this looks disjointed and nonsensical is because Chaos is playing a game that has lasted over 10,000+ years. The Imperium has no benchmark for something like that. They can only act in a life time, while the lifetime of Chaos is eternal.

See the only real issue I have with that theory (not discounting it mind you, I do enjoy the power play that is being shown in the Chaos forces), is Abaddon has one claim to fame that no one else, in the entirety of the 40k universe can make: he has managed to forge the greater whole of Chaos forces into a unified front, not once, not twice, not three times, hell not even four times. No, he's managed to do this 13 times! Not even Horus accomplished that. And while there is the point that it's not an 'army' per say, I think that also misses the core point. The four Chaos gods hate one another. The Chaos Legions have millennia old rivalries, The Daemon Primarchs were practically at each others throats before they became Daemons. You have half the renegade forces trying to kill the other half on a daily basis because they didn't use the right shade of red for the Khorne runs they drew. Abaddon has managed to take all of that, and point it in the direct he needed it go in, not once, but 13 freaking times!!!! Even Horus didn't accomplish that!

When the Imperium talks about threats, sure Huron is on the list. They're not going to ignore him. He is a threat. In that area, where his power base is. He's not considered a threat to the world of Terra. maybe an annoyance to it. But Abaddon... he's a threat that has his sights set very firmly on Terra. And the High Lords know it. Abaddon is some Chaos Lord who might some day turn out to be a major threat. He IS the major threat today. And despite throwing everything they possibly can at him to eliminate said threat, he is still a threat. They've sent entire assassin temples after the guy and he's still here.

If Abs does manage to burn Terra just to be stabbed in the back by Huron, they will need to radically change Huron's position of power. He doesn't have the ability to direct the forces of Chaos the way Abaddon does. He would be Warmaster for all of a day before the forces of Chaos ripped itself apart and him along with it.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
He never managed to do any real damage.

Oh no, with the 13th Black Crusade he's done horrific damage by breaching the Cadian gate and setting foot on Cadia. The problem is that the 13th Black Crusade is the first time he's made an actual notable victory besides previous logistic runs labeled crusades or failed battles.

The difficulty is that given that the mortal followers of Chaos as a whole number less than the soldiers of the Imperium, he may run into the same problems the Axis did in WW2 when they tried to take on the world. Not enough manpower or especially fleet power to win out in the end. He knows the Imperium is currently busy with the rise of the Xenos, so right now is his best shot at victory while the Imperium is distracted.

It's also noted that the Chaos Gods know that Abaddon doesn't really care about them and just wants to make his own Imperium and would gladly abandon them the moment he had the chance to have the power to himself. So they might yank his chain anyway.

Of course...someone might just beat him to the emperor.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
He never managed to do any real damage.

Oh no, with the 13th Black Crusade he's done horrific damage by breaching the Cadian gate and setting foot on Cadia. The problem is that the 13th Black Crusade is the first time he's made an actual notable victory besides previous logistic runs labeled crusades or failed battles.

Define "victory." Because, as the CSM codex suggests, Imperial Augers believe every Crusade so far has just been building up to this final 13th Black Crusade that will accomplish his ultimate goal. Every crusade so far, while seemingly inconsequential, has done something drastic and accomplished Abbadons goals. From claiming Drachn'yen and the Black Stone Fortresses to crippling Imperial firepower by desecrating Blood Angel gene-seeds (Devestators) and robbing Antecannis and Cancephalus of all their military power.

So while we like to think "Poor Armless hasn't done anything," he's actually done everything he's wanted, exactly as he wanted it to happen. Even losing (someone mentioned) that crazy daemon summoning artifact that held one of Nurgles great Generals. Losing that probably didn't help matters any, but as it was pointed out by another, that wasn't his goal in the first place. It was killing a veteran Grey Knight that could have turned up on Cadia now and really done some damage.

Interesting about the GW "Eye of Terror" campaign. I've heard quiet a bit about it, specifically that Chaos players had a field day and practically threw open the Gates and will be storming towards Terra any day now, but then retcon. ><!!!

Wish Terra would fall already so we could start doing something different for a change. Make the Loyalists a small guerilla force, the Tau rise in power, Chaos creates a Chaos Zone in the former Imperium, the Eldar are rendered more extinct than they already are and the Dark Eldar are now actively fighting back against the newly held Chaos domain, etc. etc. Could be so much more epic in the 50k universe and definitely more heroic. >