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We're going to see 2 force orgs eventually available to all armies. Orks have it (they actually have 3 to choose from with the supplement), Space Wolves are going to have it. Every book moving forward is going to have a CAD and army specific force org. So I think it's time to embrace it
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We're going to see 2 force orgs eventually available to all armies. Orks have it (they actually have 3 to choose from with the supplement), Space Wolves are going to have it. Every book moving forward is going to have a CAD and army specific force org. So I think it's time to embrace it
I agree. Seems like LoW and FW didn't ruin the BAO but actually promoted games finishing early possibly. The more neutered down you make games in this edition it seems like the longer and slower they play out IMHO.
Looking at the top 10 lists, none of them included self allying.
Was it that much of an issue?
From a RAW standpoint I don't think you should be able to take an allied detachment that has the same faction as your primary, since that is against the RAW [if that's what you mean]
But if you mean the ability to take a formation other than your primary that includes the same faction, still I think most of the top 10 armies at BAO did not have that either.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/31 18:30:58
My two cents on this whole thing, if anybody cares:
I sympathize with minion, it sounds like he got a raw deal, assuming everything went as he said it did.
BUT, I have been on the other side of this situation back in my days as a MTG tournament player. Back in '03, I was a tournament regular, trying to get on the pro tour. A couple friends of mine put together a janky G/W beats deck that was a total meta play, and which we kept as "secret tech" until Midwest Regionals. And we absolutely stomped the competition.
In the last round of regionals, after going 7-2 in a field of like 400-500 people, I ended up facing against a very well known tournament player who had his own blog that lots of folks in the community read. He asked me to concede to him at the start of the match. I said no, I wanted to play, as I was hoping to make it as high in the rankings as I could so that our secret tech would make the MTG blogs and make a name for our team. He went on to be extremely whiny and passive aggressive for the entire game, and I beat him handily 2 out of 3 games. The only game he won was one where he topdecked four "destroy all creatures" spells in a row. I ended up 17th overall, which was slightly disappointing for me as I was hoping to make top 16 (which would have triggered the posting of my list on many of the top boards).
Then, the next week a couple of his friends posted a blog article about how I was such a TFG, how I should have just conceded to him, and how I was a total jerk. None of this was true (or, at least, it was totally distorted - I can't say that I was super-nice to him after he started being rude to me, but I would describe my demeanor as "cold," not insulting).
The whole experience sucked, cast a pallor over my achievements at the tourney, and within about 6 months I dropped out of MTG altogether. So, I guess the whole point of this is that everyone should just lay off the witch hunt until we've heard both sides of the story. The player in question (who I do not know) may not be the greatest to play against, but he deserves the benefit of the doubt in light of the fact that this could easily have been an error.
Rolling dice when your opponent isn't looking, though, is not kosher with me, FWIW.
What I would like is more options on the poll. I do not care too much one way or another, but I always want to see more options.
Also, before you start throwing around people wanting to play 6th edition, we are already making a lot of changes to the 7th edition FOC, so there are a lot worse things that you can do than play with 6th's.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/31 20:55:27
What I would like is more options on the poll. I do not care too much one way or another, but I always want to see more options.
Also, before you start throwing around people wanting to play 6th edition, we are already making a lot of changes to the 7th edition FOC, so there are a lot worse things that you can do than play with 6th's.
No need to get testy, it was a legitimate question.
Theres no point in them putting out more options that they will then need to sort through if they have no intent on running those sorts of events.
Asmodas wrote: I ended up facing against a very well known tournament player who had his own blog that lots of folks in the community read. He asked me to concede to him at the start of the match.
I'm not familiar with MTG tournaments, but why would anyone start a match by asking their opponent to concede?
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Asmodas wrote: I ended up facing against a very well known tournament player who had his own blog that lots of folks in the community read. He asked me to concede to him at the start of the match.
I'm not familiar with MTG tournaments, but why would anyone start a match by asking their opponent to concede?
Player 1 and Player 2 have the same record going into the top 8. The top 4 get rewards at an out of state tournament (either X number of byes or an invite, whatever). Player 1 wants to go to that out of state tournament, player 2 doesn't care. Player 1 asks because if they play and luck goes against him (mana screwed repeatedly, Player 2 gets nut draws, etc) he'll lose out on those rewards and Player 2 won't use them.
It's worth asking but shouldn't be more than a 10 second yes/no thing.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
Asmodas wrote: I ended up facing against a very well known tournament player who had his own blog that lots of folks in the community read. He asked me to concede to him at the start of the match.
I'm not familiar with MTG tournaments, but why would anyone start a match by asking their opponent to concede?
Player 1 and Player 2 have the same record going into the top 8. The top 4 get rewards at an out of state tournament (either X number of byes or an invite, whatever). Player 1 wants to go to that out of state tournament, player 2 doesn't care. Player 1 asks because if they play and luck goes against him (mana screwed repeatedly, Player 2 gets nut draws, etc) he'll lose out on those rewards and Player 2 won't use them.
It's worth asking but shouldn't be more than a 10 second yes/no thing.
Yeah. The process of intentionally drawing matches or conceding in M:tG is well known and common in bigger tournaments. There are even specific rules in place about what one player can say/offer to another player in order to induce a draw or concession. As Rigel says though, if one player isn't interested, that should be the end of the conversation (and as I understand it now, pestering an opponent about this will now cause an instant disqualification or match loss).
You also can't offer things like splitting rewards or prize money for the concession. It's relatively above the board, if somewhat annoying to people who don't understand.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
undertow wrote: I'm not familiar with MTG tournaments, but why would anyone start a match by asking their opponent to concede?
Because they're an arrogant TFG who expects a "lesser" opponent to recognize how truly great they are as a well-know "pro player" and concede the match so that they can go on to the top-16 spot that they are so obviously entitled to? There are only two reasons to concede a match in MTG:
1) Bribery, which is cheating but still happens.
2) Playing against a friend/teammate and conceding the match because they have a better chance of winning future rounds. This would never happen with a random stranger.
There are much more common reasons to take an intentional draw late in a tournament, since you'll often get situations where both players just need to avoid losing to maintain their desired position in the standings (for example, the top 8 players go to the final elimination bracket), and an intentional draw allows them to do that without any risk of losing. But that's a case where both players are getting something, not one player asking for a huge advantage at the expense of the other player.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/01 19:12:45
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
undertow wrote: I'm not familiar with MTG tournaments, but why would anyone start a match by asking their opponent to concede?
Because they're an arrogant TFG who expects a "lesser" opponent to recognize how truly great they are as a well-know "pro player" and concede the match so that they can go on to the top-16 spot that they are so obviously entitled to? There are only two reasons to concede a match in MTG:
1) Bribery, which is cheating but still happens.
2) Playing against a friend/teammate and conceding the match because they have a better chance of winning future rounds. This would never happen with a random stranger.
There are much more common reasons to take an intentional draw late in a tournament, since you'll often get situations where both players just need to avoid losing to maintain their desired position in the standings (for example, the top 8 players go to the final elimination bracket), and an intentional draw allows them to do that without any risk of losing. But that's a case where both players are getting something, not one player asking for a huge advantage at the expense of the other player.
It's like you completely ignored the fact that I posted a legitimate reason. It often has nothing to do with being an arrogant TFG or "pro-player" or anything.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
rigeld2 wrote: It's like you completely ignored the fact that I posted a legitimate reason. It often has nothing to do with being an arrogant TFG or "pro-player" or anything.
It's not a legitimate reason because it will never happen in a sanctioned tournament. Pro tour qualifiers only award travel prizes to the top finisher, so even if you're not interested in the primary reason for being at a PTQ you could only have this happen in the extremely unlikely situation that the rest of the prize for first was no better than the prize for second. And it will certainly never happen in a grand prix tournament, where the difference between a top-8 finish with a travel prize and a 9th or worse finish without one is hundreds of dollars in cash. So unless you think that there are generous people who would realistically say "sure, I'll give up $500 and concede the match so I don't waste this pro tour invite" without their opponent handing them some cash I don't think we have to seriously consider your scenario.
And also note that travel prizes in MTG include plane tickets to the event, so "sure, I'll let you have that" is a lot less likely than, say, X-Wing where the byes awarded in lower-tier events are pretty much worthless to a lot of people.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 19:49:44
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
rigeld2 wrote: It's like you completely ignored the fact that I posted a legitimate reason. It often has nothing to do with being an arrogant TFG or "pro-player" or anything.
It's not a legitimate reason because it will never happen in a sanctioned tournament. Pro tour qualifiers only award travel prizes to the top finisher, so even if you're not interested in the primary reason for being at a PTQ you could only have this happen in the extremely unlikely situation that the rest of the prize for first was no better than the prize for second. And it will certainly never happen in a grand prix tournament, where the difference between a top-8 finish with a travel prize and a 9th or worse finish without one is hundreds of dollars in cash. So unless you think that there are generous people who would realistically say "sure, I'll give up $500 and concede the match so I don't waste this pro tour invite" without their opponent handing them some cash I don't think we have to seriously consider your scenario.
And also note that travel prizes in MTG include plane tickets to the event, so "sure, I'll let you have that" is a lot less likely than, say, X-Wing where the byes awarded in lower-tier events are pretty much worthless to a lot of people.
This either blatantly a lie or, more generously, I could assume that you're working from incomplete knowledge.
tomjoad wrote: I'm not sure how easy it is to get Peregrine to agree with a new viewpoint.
It's easy, if you provide a good reason. There just isn't one in this case. If you're asking someone to concede a match because they might not be able to use the plane tickets they're about to win it's a pretty safe bet that you're cheating and handing them some cash in exchange.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tomjoad wrote: This either blatantly a lie or, more generously, I could assume that you're working from incomplete knowledge.
Scroll down to prizes. Top 8 get pro tour invites and $1000+, 9th place gets $600. Even if you aren't going to use the pro tour invite because you absolutely can't go to it there's still a difference of $400 in cash at stake. The scenario rigeld2 proposed, where a person concedes a match because they can't use the travel prize and don't want it to be wasted, is never going to happen without the conceding player getting some cash in exchange.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/01 19:54:07
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Will you accept people camping outside the store for tickets But I look forward to seeing how you guys handle 7th edition. LVO was the first major after Formations. LOW and Stronghold, and now you guys are first for 7th
That would be Texas Games Con being the first major 7th edition tournament at the end of June,.
I do not think that having a poll is the best way to sort out the issues that 7th edition has with tournaments.
It is only a week and a half and most people are afraid of what is out there without seeing it in action.
For an example if I am playing Tau I would love a cap on psychic powers. I want to limit the other armies ability to get things like ignore cover, and twin linking when all I have to do is take wargear tjhat can't be stopped.
If I was playing Eldar I want a ban on invisibility. I have fortune that does the same thing, so why have other armies that can stop my deathstars?
If I am not playing Demons, I want a cap on summoning. That way they have another nerf to keep the one to their FMC company.
Play most OP army in game - ask that other people gimp any sort of advantage they have over Tau.... Typical.
Play most OP army in game - ask that other people gimp any sort of advantage they have over Tau.... Typical.
Heh - I like the jab, but I hope you're not seriously considering Tau as the most OP army in 7th. Check out the BAO results here and TOF, not a ton of Tau topping out even local tourneys these days. They've really fallen into a well balanced, middle range+ army. Pod marines, Rhino rush, and Deldar seem to be doing the best these days.
