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I am not playing 7th edition, but am curious about Raptors. Are they finally worth it?

Obviously, they are not a silver bullet that will win games on their own, but could the rules now favor taking Raptors? The problem with CSMs has always been getting up the board. Now that they are scoring, I could see a lot of situations where it would make more sense to take a high mobility unit over some of the other troop options.

Like with Noise Marines. With MoS, they are going to have half the shots of a squad armed with bolters, but they are going to get into position for assault in half the time (plus strike first). Or with Plague Marines. With MoN, they are going to have the same toughness, but cost less (admittedly, without FNP) and get into assaults quicker. If nothing else, this certainly could eliminate the need to pay for Rhinos that are just going to get blown up anyways - you could get an extra squad of Raptors with special weapons for less than the cost of 4 Rhinos.

It's not that they were terrible before, but they compete for slot space with helldrakes, bikes and spawn...

I think for me they are still the 4th best fast attack choice, but with 7th you can have more slots so there might be a spot for them. They can for example cover a part of the table where bikes and spawn would need to go around a fortification, building or similar.

Its that they directly compete with bikes, which, for only three more points, are literally better in every way. Theyre faster, tougher, and have much better guns. The only thing raptors have over them is as deeptriking melta squads, I suppose.

They can jump over impassable. If you ever play a on a city type board it makes a huge difference.

I don't think their value has changed much with 7th edition. Yes, they are scoring, but so is everything else so it kinda falls out of most comparisons unless they can score better than other FA units which they can't really.

A shame because I've always liked raptor fluff and models, even the metal ones.

 McGibs wrote:
Its that they directly compete with bikes, which, for only three more points, are literally better in every way. Theyre faster, tougher, and have much better guns. The only thing raptors have over them is as deeptriking melta squads, I suppose.

You got it. They're functional enough as a "carries two special weapons and can move 12 inches" unit. But they are less tough than bikes, can't turbo-boost an extra 12", aren't relentless, and sometimes don't get their hammer of wrath attacks (so bikes are getting more attacks in close combat). I also find terminators with combimeltas are better at deepstrike melta.

A shame because I've always liked raptor fluff and models, even the metal ones.

Eh, I'd say go ahead and use them. They're not THAT much worse than bikes.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 McGibs wrote:
Its that they directly compete with bikes, which, for only three more points, are literally better in every way. Theyre faster, tougher, and have much better guns. The only thing raptors have over them is as deeptriking melta squads, I suppose.

You got it. They're functional enough as a "carries two special weapons and can move 12 inches" unit. But they are less tough than bikes, can't turbo-boost an extra 12", aren't relentless, and sometimes don't get their hammer of wrath attacks (so bikes are getting more attacks in close combat). I also find terminators with combimeltas are better at deepstrike melta.

A shame because I've always liked raptor fluff and models, even the metal ones.

Eh, I'd say go ahead and use them. They're not THAT much worse than bikes.

But you forget the Arch Enemy of bikes

Stairs

 Mr.Omega wrote:


But you forget the Arch Enemy of bikes

Stairs

Yeah, I was wondering how fortifications play into this. With bikes, you have something tougher, faster, and a little shootier. With Raptors, you have something that crosses over fortifications and impassible terrain.

I guess it's situational (and most people don't play with a ton of fortifications anyways), but how much of a difference can Raptors make?

This is the one part of unbound rules I actually like. I can finally make a Night Lords army that is truly fluffy. However, with everyone's initial knee jerk reaction of "UNBOUND IS SO OP -- LOOK HOW I CAN ABUSE IT!!!!" I am not sure if this will happen anytime soon.

But otherwise, I agree. I like using Raptors, but everything else in FA is so good, it is hard to justify using them.

I am not a big fan of the new Jink rules myself, so I may try some raptors in my next game.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

A shame because I've always liked raptor fluff and models, even the metal ones.

Eh, I'd say go ahead and use them. They're not THAT much worse than bikes.

Oh I do use them. They have their upsides. I just wish they had a more unique feel to them than just assault marines w/ fear. The imagery of the screaming raptors disorienting their prey and then tearing into them with clawed feet in addition to normal weapons is one that's always stuck with me but never felt really represented on the table top. I'd be glad if they cost as much as bikes but had some hard hitting cc abilities to reflect their fluff.

I'm just going to say, as a distraction/vehicle nuker, I think they've got a strong application, and even more so with them being able to score.

Consider how many times you wished you could drop in behind an IG Aegis that was holding up a command squad backed by a damn Leman Russ and company. Pop the Russ, then make them either run away because they don't want to fight or make them chase you because they do want to fight.

Either way, you've put the enemy in a hell of spot if you keep dropping things in their backfield, which to me is a massive part of the Chaos Army that needs to be brought to attention.

Chaos footslogs and rolls along way too much and too slowly to be of much good, but now that we can score AND cause Chaos amongst the enemy ranks and not feel like a waste, well now we can start drawing out these damn Tau and IG gunlines that wanna sit back, shoot, then back up and shoot some more.

Simply put, where you gonna go when you can't back up anymore and the crap you're trying to run away from just keeps trudging forward?

I dunno about you guys, but I think that would make most military commanders worried. Especially when we're talking about the likes of Chaos.

And did I mention that Close Combat can be effective at that point? Oh yeah, so they wanna hold the line with a Land Raider about to drop Chosen in their face? Great! Thanks for wasting your overwatch on the distraction. Now get ready for the Abaddon blender. >D

Raptors benefits over Bikes/Spawn

Deepstrike anywhere on the board
Carry 2 meltas and a combi-melta
Bring a deepstriking character with them
Go to ground (bikes and spawn can't do this)
Cause fear (eh)
Move through terrain without worrying about dangerous tests (albeit slowly)
Travel in groups of 20

They're not bad, really. Certainly death to most vehicles if they don't scatter. I like to equip mine with 2 meltas and a combi-flamer. Deepstrike to burninate a vehicle, then bounce around roasting infantry and being a nuisance.

I also like to use them in conjunction with combi-weapon terminators and obliterators to just swamp the field with deepstriking death.

 Badablack wrote:
Raptors benefits over Bikes/Spawn

Cause fear (eh)

Crimson Slaughter bikes are terrifying.

I only run them 5 at a time, but they still can raise a lot of hell. I have the champion with two lightning claws, for getting in behind enemy lines and raising hell, and two melta guns, for popping tanks. They also get the mark of nurgle, to make them an even bigger pain in the neck once they assault a gunline. I find them very viable. If fear didn't come stock, I'd not shell the points out for it, though. You're going to start seeing more armor on the table again, so I find this setup to be pretty ideal. You might want mark of slaanesh, but it doesn't fit my theme. If you just want to bounce from unit to unit slaughtering stuff, I'd go khorne and up the squad size the ten, though.

 Badablack wrote:
Raptors benefits over Bikes/Spawn
Carry 2 meltas and a combi-melta

Bikes can also carry 2 meltas and a combi melta

Raptors were my first Fast Attack unit I bought. They've been since shelved for Drakes and Spawn, but I really think that in this edition, they can see the light... of night!