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Do I have to choose a level for a Blast Marker now? (I can't remember the proper name at the moment... The small and large circular things. I've probably got it right and not realised.)
Can I only hit things on that level?
And is choosing a level for templates still the same in 7th? (One up, down or same level)
Just a page number and paragraph will do, I'm going over the book again after I've typed this; but I can't find it. Thanks again guys.

Nope it is all gone, so blasts & templates always hit all the models under them.

The only RAW 'issue' with this is the instruction to hold a flames template up above ruins is also gone, so technically you're always supposed to actually touch the firing model's base with the template, which makes covering big enemy models or those up in the upper levels of ruins tricky to impossible in some cases.

So it doesn't matter what level the marker/template is on? If it hands off of the edge of the ruin and covers models on the ground floor it'll count as hitting them?

 yakface wrote:

Nope it is all gone, so blasts & templates always hit all the models under them.

The only RAW 'issue' with this is the instruction to hold a flames template up above ruins is also gone, so technically you're always supposed to actually touch the firing model's base with the template, which makes covering big enemy models or those up in the upper levels of ruins tricky to impossible in some cases.

I can't find a convincing quote which talks about visible models vs models which are covered when looking from above (as the rules have told us to do). I'm not talking about the line of sight of the firer. So if a blast is held over a roof or a bridge, all models under the roof or bridge are hit?

Yes, there are no ruins rules anymore. Any model under the blast/template hit in 7th.

Wow. That seems a little open to abuse. S if a Basilisks elects to indirectly fire at a unit, even though they are under a properly formed roof, you can still put the blast marker "over" the model that you can neither see from the top, nor be visible to the firer? Because indirect fire does not require the target to be visible to the firer.

Most likely the RAI is that the model has to be visible under the template to be hit.


Always talk with your opponent about it first.

Eihnlazer wrote:
Most likely the RAI is that the model has to be visible under the template to be hit.


Always talk with your opponent about it first.

Unlikely, given the rulebook gives you opaque markers and templates to cut out and use, if you dont have the clear plastic ones. SO no, not likely to be "RAI"

Eihnlazer wrote:
Most likely the RAI is that the model has to be visible under the template to be hit.


Always talk with your opponent about it first.

So you think blasts can't hit models on the lower level of a ruin if you can't see them even if they're in LOS of the firing model? That's ridiculous because it goes completely against what the rules for blasts indicate in 7th...if you read the rules you'll see blasts are clearly able to hit and kill models even out of LOS.

GW had the rules for ruins in 6th and knew what they were losing when they dumped them. It may be OP, but the rules for blasts have changed and they simply are more powerful now.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Eihnlazer wrote:
Most likely the RAI is that the model has to be visible under the template to be hit.


Always talk with your opponent about it first.

Unlikely, given the rulebook gives you opaque markers and templates to cut out and use, if you don't have the clear plastic ones. SO no, not likely to be "RAI"

Actually the cut-outs are not included in 7th edition. They only provide a description of blast markers now.

Huh, I hadnt spotted them on the look through, but assumed I missed them / forgot about them

However a description is still sufficient to show that a transparent marker is not required, therefore "see" might not literally mean "have sight of" but "can determine what"

I refuse to believe that just because i hold my template over a building model i can now hit every model on every floor beneath the blast marker.


Its just plain stupid, no ifs ands or buts.


RAW states hits everything under it, and it does mention looking down and spotting the models.

If your gonna play it one way thats fine, but dont state that its law. Theres more than one way to interpret the way its written in the book and both ways need to be mentioned.

Eihnlazer wrote:
I refuse to believe that just because i hold my template over a building model i can now hit every model on every floor beneath the blast marker.


Its just plain stupid, no ifs ands or buts.


RAW states hits everything under it, and it does mention looking down and spotting the models.

If your gonna play it one way thats fine, but dont state that its law. Theres more than one way to interpret the way its written in the book and both ways need to be mentioned.

And GW has mysteriously removed a chunk of rules from 6th which clarified.

I agree with you it is rather ridiculous but perhaps in your own game, you can just write a dataslate for your ruins. To prevent this "effect". I see the dataslates as predefined rules. So if your ruins are not found in the dataslate section, you can just write up a dataslate as they have mentioned.

Whether this is a formalized pre game terrain discussion, intended more freedom to players or just lazy/careless rule writing, it's anybody's guess.

Eihnlazer wrote:
RAW states hits everything under it, and it does mention looking down and spotting the models.

I've heard people stating that the rules mention "seeing the models", but there is no reference to that at all. It just states:

...take a good look at it from above - each unit suffers one hit for each of their models which is fully or partially beneath the blast marker...

No mention of "visible" models or "seeing" them at all, just an instruction to look down on the situation. To me, it seems that this is more of an instruction for the easiest way to determine hits.

Yup. Templates and blasts hit everything underneath. It sucks, but thems the rules.

I'm starting to wonder if GW is planning to rerelease Cities of Death to improve the ruin rules (and get customers to pay for it at the same time).

Eihnlazer wrote:
I refuse to believe that just because i hold my template over a building model i can now hit every model on every floor beneath the blast marker.


Its just plain stupid, no ifs ands or buts.


RAW states hits everything under it, and it does mention looking down and spotting the models.

If your gonna play it one way thats fine, but dont state that its law. Theres more than one way to interpret the way its written in the book and both ways need to be mentioned.

Except those are the rules. There is only one way, whcih si has been stated. There has never been a requirement for you to be able to draw LOS from the marker to the models underneath, Previously it was only the ruins levels rules which deictated which subset of models was hit, and this has been deliberately removed.

worth keeping in mind that we're talking "ruins" here, not "buildings". buildings are a whole separate animal, where you have to embark into them and you shoot at the building, not the unit inside it (barring things like grenades and flamers hitting firing points and all that).

Eihnlazer wrote:
I refuse to believe that just because i hold my template over a building model i can now hit every model on every floor beneath the blast marker..

For what it's worth, it's worked that way for the bulk of the lifespan of this game. It's only the last couple of editions that confined it to a single level.

Personally, I'm glad of the change. I've always thought it pretty silly that a flimsy, crumbling ruin floor would stop artillery shells.

To be fair, those Ruins are often still standing after Orbital Bombardments so those floors must be made out of something insanely strong....

But the answer of 'Datasheet it if it really is that much of a concern' is correct.