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Since we have yet seen the Tyranids home galaxy or how far they have come throughout the universe, how large do you think they would be in army size, also, why have only certain tendrils come to our galaxy when the beacon that drew them here in the first place would have been felt throughout the entire hive?

 Lobomalo wrote:
Since we have yet seen the Tyranids home galaxy or how far they have come throughout the universe, how large do you think they would be in army size, also, why have only certain tendrils come to our galaxy when the beacon that drew them here in the first place would have been felt throughout the entire hive?

The Tyranid race at the very least has got to be the size of a galaxy. Either that or they're never ending, cause some higher power magics them into the universe. Far from undefeatable though. Even if they're never ending. If they can die, then they still have a limited amount of resources and bodies. However brief the amount of time for that limit. I also doubt tyranids can exhaust the Imperiums supply of manpower. Other factions, they probably can. Not the Imperiums. At the current 41st millennia, mankind breeds like roaches that have the sex drive of bunnies. Cute cuddly soft bunnies.

But the Tyranids already have surpassed the Imperiums manpower though, it just isn't all concentrated in one tendril.

Tyranids both breed and mature much faster than man does as well

If they were smarter than man, or superior, the Imperium of man would have been dead already. Think of it like man and wolves. Wolves have not proven themselves superior to man yet. And I doubt they ever will. Or roaches and man.

-But tyranids are much deadlier than wolves and more viral than roaches.
And the Imperium is much deadlier and numerous than modern day man, or ancient man.

But the Tyranids are quite intelligent though. Not to mention they can adapt to anything anyone throws at them

 LumenPraebeo wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
Since we have yet seen the Tyranids home galaxy or how far they have come throughout the universe, how large do you think they would be in army size, also, why have only certain tendrils come to our galaxy when the beacon that drew them here in the first place would have been felt throughout the entire hive?

The Tyranid race at the very least has got to be the size of a galaxy. Either that or they're never ending, cause some higher power magics them into the universe. Far from undefeatable though. Even if they're never ending. If they can die, then they still have a limited amount of resources and bodies. However brief the amount of time for that limit. I also doubt tyranids can exhaust the Imperiums supply of manpower. Other factions, they probably can. Not the Imperiums. At the current 41st millennia, mankind breeds like roaches that have the sex drive of bunnies. Cute cuddly soft bunnies.

Dafuq?

Tyranids are almost certainly not the size of the galaxy. While they have indeed consumed twelve galaxies, the Tyranids would be starving and constantly losing biomass as they traveled for the ~2.5 million or greater light years in the void where there would be absolutely nothing to feed on. Those arriving at the Milky Way are starving, desperate, and probably fairly pissed off and feeling cannibalistic if things get desperate. Plus we have no reason to even believe that the Nids actually encountered any powerful hostile race before with the technology of the Imperium or Eldar- the only major faction we know they might have encountered previously are the Orks who are scattered across the Local Group (or possibly further). The 'Nids have finite resources as the Imperium, Tau (with may sue plotshield powers), Dark Eldar, or Necrons.

The main hope for the Nids really is to feed off the Orks. Who almost seem like perfect symbiotic organisms that fit the needs of both races. Orks are a functionally infinite food supply for the nids, and Tyranids are a functionally infinite fight for the Orks.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 LumenPraebeo wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
Since we have yet seen the Tyranids home galaxy or how far they have come throughout the universe, how large do you think they would be in army size, also, why have only certain tendrils come to our galaxy when the beacon that drew them here in the first place would have been felt throughout the entire hive?

The Tyranid race at the very least has got to be the size of a galaxy. Either that or they're never ending, cause some higher power magics them into the universe. Far from undefeatable though. Even if they're never ending. If they can die, then they still have a limited amount of resources and bodies. However brief the amount of time for that limit. I also doubt tyranids can exhaust the Imperiums supply of manpower. Other factions, they probably can. Not the Imperiums. At the current 41st millennia, mankind breeds like roaches that have the sex drive of bunnies. Cute cuddly soft bunnies.

Dafuq?

Tyranids are almost certainly not the size of the galaxy. While they have indeed consumed twelve galaxies, the Tyranids would be starving and constantly losing biomass as they traveled for the ~2.5 million or greater light years in the void where there would be absolutely nothing to feed on. Those arriving at the Milky Way are starving, desperate, and probably fairly pissed off and feeling cannibalistic if things get desperate. Plus we have no reason to even believe that the Nids actually encountered any powerful hostile race before with the technology of the Imperium or Eldar- the only major faction we know they might have encountered previously are the Orks who are scattered across the Local Group (or possibly further). The 'Nids have finite resources as the Imperium, Tau (with may sue plotshield powers), Dark Eldar, or Necrons.

The main hope for the Nids really is to feed off the Orks. Who almost seem like perfect symbiotic organisms that fit the needs of both races. Orks are a functionally infinite food supply for the nids, and Tyranids are a functionally infinite fight for the Orks.

They could always feed on each other, consuming their own biomass and making more of themselves in a never ending cycle

 Lobomalo wrote:
But the Tyranids are quite intelligent though. Not to mention they can adapt to anything anyone throws at them

And mankind has proven itself to be exceptional in that field too. The Orks never wiped us out yet. What did it take to destroy the Roman Empire? Multiply the strength of the Roman Empire and its technology by ten thousand. That's the Imperium. You need something that strong to take out the Imperium. I think Tyranids and Orks could do it if they worked together. Or even the Necrons. But not in their current situation. There needs to be a game changer for that to happen. So far, there hasn't been a game changer for the past 10,000 years. Maybe the 13th Black Crusade is it. Maybe 1000 worlds would riot and rebel at the same time. Who knows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Dafuq?

Tyranids are almost certainly not the size of the galaxy.

Well, if you said they consumed 12 galaxies before, then I think theres a chance they might be that big. A galaxy contains more than enough resources for 100 races the size of the Imperium for 1000 years. And according to the laws of physics, none of it is going anywhere any time soon.

 Lobomalo wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 LumenPraebeo wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
Since we have yet seen the Tyranids home galaxy or how far they have come throughout the universe, how large do you think they would be in army size, also, why have only certain tendrils come to our galaxy when the beacon that drew them here in the first place would have been felt throughout the entire hive?

The Tyranid race at the very least has got to be the size of a galaxy. Either that or they're never ending, cause some higher power magics them into the universe. Far from undefeatable though. Even if they're never ending. If they can die, then they still have a limited amount of resources and bodies. However brief the amount of time for that limit. I also doubt tyranids can exhaust the Imperiums supply of manpower. Other factions, they probably can. Not the Imperiums. At the current 41st millennia, mankind breeds like roaches that have the sex drive of bunnies. Cute cuddly soft bunnies.

Dafuq?

Tyranids are almost certainly not the size of the galaxy. While they have indeed consumed twelve galaxies, the Tyranids would be starving and constantly losing biomass as they traveled for the ~2.5 million or greater light years in the void where there would be absolutely nothing to feed on. Those arriving at the Milky Way are starving, desperate, and probably fairly pissed off and feeling cannibalistic if things get desperate. Plus we have no reason to even believe that the Nids actually encountered any powerful hostile race before with the technology of the Imperium or Eldar- the only major faction we know they might have encountered previously are the Orks who are scattered across the Local Group (or possibly further). The 'Nids have finite resources as the Imperium, Tau (with may sue plotshield powers), Dark Eldar, or Necrons.

The main hope for the Nids really is to feed off the Orks. Who almost seem like perfect symbiotic organisms that fit the needs of both races. Orks are a functionally infinite food supply for the nids, and Tyranids are a functionally infinite fight for the Orks.

They could always feed on each other, consuming their own biomass and making more of themselves in a never ending cycle

Biomass is a limited resource. There is no such thing as a hundred percent effeciency, if they eat their own they will lose energy but prevent starvation. But while traveling in the void, the Tyranids will almost certainly take a massive hit to their total biomass and stored energy, and certainly won't be galaxy sized.

Also, Orks haven't wiped out humanity because pigs will fly before the Orks unite under a single banner. If the Orks ever united, everyone besides Chaos, Eldar, and Necrons would just be dead. Their numbers and pysker energy would drown the IOM, and it's even stated as such in the Codex.

 LumenPraebeo wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
But the Tyranids are quite intelligent though. Not to mention they can adapt to anything anyone throws at them

And mankind has proven itself to be exceptional in that field too. The Orks never wiped us out yet. What did it take to destroy the Roman Empire? Multiply the strength of the Roman Empire and its technology by ten thousand. That's the Imperium. You need something that strong to take out the Imperium. I think Tyranids and Orks could do it if they worked together. Or even the Necrons. But not in their current situation. There needs to be a game changer for that to happen. So far, there hasn't been a game changer for the past 10,000 years. Maybe the 13th Black Crusade is it. Maybe 1000 worlds would riot and rebel at the same time. Who knows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Dafuq?

Tyranids are almost certainly not the size of the galaxy.

Well, if you said they consumed 12 galaxies before, then I think theres a chance they might be that big. A galaxy contains more than enough resources for 100 races the size of the Imperium for 1000 years. And according to the laws of physics, none of it is going anywhere any time soon.

Energy is not free. Energy is not infinite. It doesn't matter if the Nids ate twelve galaxies, they'd have lost energy they consumed while flying between planets, which is painstakingly slow for nids. They'd have lost energy in any wars they participated in. They'd have lost energy producing new biomorphs. They'd have lost a LOT of energy between galaxies. They also do not gain the total energy of an object when devouring it- they'd lose some of its energy content and waste energy of the biomorph eating it, although hopefully at a net gain, but not a maximum one.

Hell, the way Nids consume biomass in the first place is hilariously stupid. Something like a gaunt, carnifex, etc devours organic matter, then when the hive fleet picks up it jumps into a pool of acid to be consumed by the Hive Fleet.... but doing so loses the energy it consumed to return to the hive fleet, AND the energy the Carnifex also contained.


The nids would be better off just evolving their bioplasma to the point that they just need hydrogen, the most common element in the damn galaxy, to use for organic fusion power. Which would be a HELL lot more effecient in energy production and completely scrap the need to engage in risky endeavors to consume organic matter in an entire galaxy.

 Lobomalo wrote:
But the Tyranids already have surpassed the Imperiums manpower though, it just isn't all concentrated in one tendril.

Tyranids both breed and mature much faster than man does as well

Where are you getting the information that they surpass man already? The implication is that they have more in the void, but it isn't here yet.


And there is nothing saying there is MORE biomass in the tyrannic fleet than in the galaxy.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Biomass is a limited resource. There is no such thing as a hundred percent effeciency,

We don't know that yet. We only know there is no such thing as 100% efficiency yet. And even then, we do know biological organisms here on earth have a pretty high percentage of efficiency. Compared to things we create anyway. Perhaps that's enough for traveling from one galaxy to another. And another thing we're guessing at is that chemical, gas, and substance can be converted to biomass. Thats where we think life began. We DO know that theres more than enough of that stuff in the Milky Way for us for the next centillion years. I could only assume the same is true for the 12 galaxies you said they consumed.

 LumenPraebeo wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
But the Tyranids are quite intelligent though. Not to mention they can adapt to anything anyone throws at them

And mankind has proven itself to be exceptional in that field too. The Orks never wiped us out yet. What did it take to destroy the Roman Empire? Multiply the strength of the Roman Empire and its technology by ten thousand. That's the Imperium. You need something that strong to take out the Imperium. I think Tyranids and Orks could do it if they worked together. Or even the Necrons. But not in their current situation. There needs to be a game changer for that to happen. So far, there hasn't been a game changer for the past 10,000 years. Maybe the 13th Black Crusade is it. Maybe 1000 worlds would riot and rebel at the same time. Who knows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Dafuq?

Tyranids are almost certainly not the size of the galaxy.

Well, if you said they consumed 12 galaxies before, then I think theres a chance they might be that big. A galaxy contains more than enough resources for 100 races the size of the Imperium for 1000 years. And according to the laws of physics, none of it is going anywhere any time soon.

It took politicians and laziness to bring down the Roman Empire btw

 Lobomalo wrote:
It took politicians and laziness to bring down the Roman Empire btw

You're right, that was one of things that brought it down. But the largest and most advance army in the world back then doesn't just disappear because politicians got lazy. Neither does its citizens.

 LumenPraebeo wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
It took politicians and laziness to bring down the Roman Empire btw

You're right, that was one of things that brought it down. But the largest and most advance army in the world back then doesn't just disappear because politicians got lazy. Neither does its citizens.

Yes, but because of this, anyone could have beat them, it only took a bunch of under-equipped and enraged barbarians to do it

 Wyzilla wrote:
Energy is not free. Energy is not infinite. It doesn't matter if the Nids ate twelve galaxies, they'd have lost energy they consumed while flying between planets, which is painstakingly slow for nids. They'd have lost energy in any wars they participated in. They'd have lost energy producing new biomorphs. They'd have lost a LOT of energy between galaxies. They also do not gain the total energy of an object when devouring it- they'd lose some of its energy content and waste energy of the biomorph eating it, although hopefully at a net gain, but not a maximum one.

Hell, the way Nids consume biomass in the first place is hilariously stupid. Something like a gaunt, carnifex, etc devours organic matter, then when the hive fleet picks up it jumps into a pool of acid to be consumed by the Hive Fleet.... but doing so loses the energy it consumed to return to the hive fleet, AND the energy the Carnifex also contained.

You're thinking we lose energy during conversion the same way a car does. We're not that bad.

 LumenPraebeo wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Biomass is a limited resource. There is no such thing as a hundred percent effeciency,

We don't know that yet. We only know there is no such thing as 100% efficiency yet. And even then, we do know biological organisms here on earth have a pretty high percentage of efficiency. Compared to things we create anyway. Perhaps that's enough for traveling from one galaxy to another. And another thing we're guessing at is that chemical, gas, and substance can be converted to biomass. Thats where we think life began. We DO know that theres more than enough of that stuff in the Milky Way for us for the next centillion years. I could only assume the same is true for the 12 galaxies you said they consumed.

..... No, there isn't, and the Nids eat ORGANIC matter, they don't eat metals or rocks and pass of far superior sources of energy. In the Milky Way to our knowledge there is only ONE planet of actually supporting organic life, and on other planets the basic building blocks are still in fairly pitiful amounts for a massive species like the Tyranids. The amount of oxygen is pitiful to the amount of energy blown during travel, combat, evolution, and hell even goddamn thinking is going to be burning energy by the second as Tyranids operate by an organic gestalt hive mind. And there's absolutely no reason to even believe that 100% efficiency is possible, as firstly is it not only it [i]impossible[/b] and physically impossible and would require completely breaking physics... just. Seriously, don't talk about subjects you don't know about. You might as well start talking about how the Tyranids discovered Cold Fusion while you're at it.

But if the Tyranids were truly intelligent, they'd realize the most efficient means of gathering energy is fusion power, the resources for which are stupidly abundant and compose the majority of the universe that is made of physical matter (apposed to Dark Matter, which is believed to make up the majority of the entire universe).

 Lobomalo wrote:

 LumenPraebeo wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
It took politicians and laziness to bring down the Roman Empire btw

You're right, that was one of things that brought it down. But the largest and most advance army in the world back then doesn't just disappear because politicians got lazy. Neither does its citizens.

Yes, but because of this, anyone could have beat them, it only took a bunch of under-equipped and enraged barbarians to do it

Well, I doubt anyone could just beat the Roman military. I think it'll take a lot more than that. And history has evidence that it did indeed take a lot more than that.

Wyzilla, you are trying to use logic to judge 40K races. Abandon this hopeless endeavour at once.

 Wyzilla wrote:
..... No, there isn't, and the Nids eat ORGANIC matter, they don't eat metals or rocks and pass of far superior sources of energy. In the Milky Way to our knowledge there is only ONE planet of actually supporting organic life, and on other planets the basic building blocks are still in fairly pitiful amounts for a massive species like the Tyranids. The amount of oxygen is pitiful to the amount of energy blown during travel, combat, evolution, and hell even goddamn thinking is going to be burning energy by the second as Tyranids operate by an organic gestalt hive mind. And there's absolutely no reason to even believe that 100% efficiency is possible, as firstly is it not only it [i]impossible[/b] and physically impossible and would require completely breaking physics... just. Seriously, don't talk about subjects you don't know about. You might as well start talking about how the Tyranids discovered Cold Fusion while you're at it.

But if the Tyranids were truly intelligent, they'd realize the most efficient means of gathering energy is fusion power, the resources for which are stupidly abundant and compose the majority of the universe that is made of physical matter (apposed to Dark Matter, which is believed to make up the majority of the entire universe).

But they're simply not using fusion. And we don't know if its impossible yet. Just because we discover new science doesn't mean completely throwing away scientific theory, it simply means amending it. I also think I know more about physics than you do. I am also constantly aware of the fact that we're talking about sci-fi here. And the only limits to technology and science is our imagination. Tell me, what does it take to split an atom. And is it possible?

 Ashiraya wrote:
Wyzilla, you are trying to use logic to judge 40K races. Abandon this hopeless endeavour at once.

There's no evidence supporting Tyranids operating at 100% efficiency, by the fact they need to eat in the first place. If you could consume energy with no waste at all, there would be no need to eat anything else in the first place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LumenPraebeo wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
..... No, there isn't, and the Nids eat ORGANIC matter, they don't eat metals or rocks and pass of far superior sources of energy. In the Milky Way to our knowledge there is only ONE planet of actually supporting organic life, and on other planets the basic building blocks are still in fairly pitiful amounts for a massive species like the Tyranids. The amount of oxygen is pitiful to the amount of energy blown during travel, combat, evolution, and hell even goddamn thinking is going to be burning energy by the second as Tyranids operate by an organic gestalt hive mind. And there's absolutely no reason to even believe that 100% efficiency is possible, as firstly is it not only it impossible and physically impossible and would require completely breaking physics... just. Seriously, don't talk about subjects you don't know about. You might as well start talking about how the Tyranids discovered Cold Fusion while you're at it.

But if the Tyranids were truly intelligent, they'd realize the most efficient means of gathering energy is fusion power, the resources for which are stupidly abundant and compose the majority of the universe that is made of physical matter (apposed to Dark Matter, which is believed to make up the majority of the entire universe).

But they're simply not using fusion. And we don't know if its impossible yet. Just because we discover new science doesn't mean completely throwing away scientific theory, it simply means amending it. I also think I know more about physics than you do. I am also constantly aware of the fact that we're talking about sci-fi here. And the only limits to technology and science is our imagination. Tell me, what does it take to split an atom. And is it possible?

No, it is impossible and you just completely eradicated any hope of you actually claiming you understand physics if you think 100% efficiency is ever possible. Thermodynamics would like to have a word for you, and no, it does not make exceptions.

What? We split atoms all the time. Hell we've even split one and put it back together. It's splitting hydrogen that's the problem, and even that we're getting close to succeeding in within the next century. Fusion power is just around the corner.
http://phys.org/news/2012-06-physicists-atom-quantum-mechanics-precision.html

I've tried arguing the point that the way Tyranids operate is completely and utterly inefficient before, Wyzilla. Trust me, it's an exercise in futility.

Just let the Tyranids have the bugs from Starship Troopers/Aliens from Aliens/Zerg and try not to think too hard about it.

As for their size I don't think it's really that big. Sure, consuming 12 galaxies or so seems like a lot but working with a ineffecient system like eating organic matter has the issue of diminishing returns. As the Tyranid race grows is size so does the sheer amount of energy they expend. It gets to the point where a good portion of the biomass consumed, perhaps most of it, is used to just sustain the Hive Fleet rather than grow it. Then you run into the problem of having too large of a Hive Fleet. This issue presents itself in a scenario where a galaxy they decided to consume doesn't have the biomass they need just to sustain what they have resulting in the death of much of their forces. And, given the Tyranids seemingly mindless way they go about expanding their forces, this may have happened more than once.

I would hazard to guess that while the Tyranid race may be large it certainly isn't as large as Games Workshop would have you believe.

Oh, look, there I go overthinking things. Okay, so, going by GW logic the Tyranids are near infinite in number because they have consumed 12 galaxies and have almost all of the biomass they obtained in additional forces.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I've tried arguing the point that the way Tyranids operate is completely and utterly inefficient before, Wyzilla. Trust me, it's an exercise in futility.

Just let the Tyranids have the bugs from Starship Troopers/Aliens from Aliens/Zerg and try not to think too hard about it.

They're stupid as hell, but at least they might work. What I'm pointing out is that you have to an idiot to think the Tyranids are capable of consuming and living at 100% efficiency and not waste any energy at all. Which is impossible and stupid and would remove their need to create energy in the first place. It's simply a Non Sequitur. If they're 100% efficient, they don't need to eat in the first place, they're a perpetual free energy machine. Hell even 90% would still be just stupid, but at least Tyranids would still need to eat.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I've tried arguing the point that the way Tyranids operate is completely and utterly inefficient before, Wyzilla. Trust me, it's an exercise in futility.

Just let the Tyranids have the bugs from Starship Troopers/Aliens from Aliens/Zerg and try not to think too hard about it.

As for their size I don't think it's really that big. Sure, consuming 12 galaxies or so seems like a lot but working with a ineffecient system like eating organic matter has the issue of diminishing returns. As the Tyranid race grows is size so does the sheer amount of energy they expend. It gets to the point where a good portion of the biomass consumed, perhaps most of it, is used to just sustain the Hive Fleet rather than grow it. Then you run into the problem of having too large of a Hive Fleet. This issue presents itself in a scenario where a galaxy they decided to consume doesn't have the biomass they need just to sustain what they have resulting in the death of much of their forces. And, given the Tyranids seemingly mindless way they go about expanding their forces, this may have happened more than once.

I would hazard to guess that while the Tyranid race may be large it certainly isn't as large as Games Workshop would have you believe.

Oh, look, there I go overthinking things. Okay, so, going by GW logic the Tyranids are near infinite in number because they have consumed 12 galaxies and have almost all of the biomass they obtained in additional forces.

Is there anything at all that actually points to the Tyranids having infinite numbers or something like it? Because I just recall the vague "there's more behind them", but nothing pointing them to being in the trillions of millions department. Plus the fact they eat proves they do indeed suffer from a decay in energy consumption and are not fully efficient and break Thermodynamics over the knee.

You are applying modern day logic and physics to a universe approximately 39,000 years from now. We would know much more then and more likely than not would have found a way to be 100% efficient.

 Wyzilla wrote:
No, it is impossible and you just completely eradicated any hope of you actually claiming you understand physics if you think 100% efficiency is ever possible. Thermodynamics would like to have a word for you, and no, it does not make exceptions.

Yea, but no one here does think its possible for 100% efficiency. I do think we can get close though. Not for use as an energy source though. No one here thinks thats the only possible way for tyranids to survive. You're assuming we think that. We're also talking about tyranids here. We don't know anything of how they work. I'm guessing at it. But I'm not going to guess at how fantasy/sci-fi works based off of what we know. Because if we knew how it works, it would be viable already.

 LumenPraebeo wrote:
If they were smarter than man, or superior, the Imperium of man would have been dead already. Think of it like man and wolves. Wolves have not proven themselves superior to man yet. And I doubt they ever will. Or roaches and man.

-But tyranids are much deadlier than wolves and more viral than roaches.
And the Imperium is much deadlier and numerous than modern day man, or ancient man.

The Even if the Imperium out-numbered the Tyranids with regards to manpower (they don't), the Imperium has one fatal flow: It uses planets.

Nids don't use planets, they just strip mine them and keep going. Ergo every time they take a planet from the Imperium they not only gain ground and kill that many 'umies, but they make it so there's absolutely no potential for that planet to be a threat ever again. It will never be resettled, repopulated, or re-established. It's gone.

 Lobomalo wrote:
You are applying modern day logic and physics to a universe approximately 39,000 years from now. We would know much more then and more likely than not would have found a way to be 100% efficient.

...No. I really don't think you understand this. Granted, there are some parts of physics we know gak-all about, especially Quantum physics, which will likely look very very different in the future. But Thermodynamics is one of those absolute laws of the universe that cannot be broken- it doesn't matter how advanced you are or how old your civilization is, it's an absolute rule that doesn't change so long as you're in this universe. While I could see something like Daemons being completely efficient by them coming from an alternate universe/dimension that does not abide by the physical laws of ours, nids? They're under by our rules and have to play by them.... or else. It's the simple fact. set in stone, that energy cannot be completely applied to something without losing some of it. This isn't going to change inf thirty eight thousand years from now. We might maybe cheat by entering a different universe, but in our home universe? There's no getting around it.

Plus again, there is absolutely NO evidence pointing to Tyranids operating at 100% efficiency! If something was actually 100% efficient, it would not need to eat in the first place. However we do know Tyranids need to eat, which means they do suffer from a diminishing return of energy, and that their numbers do have a cap on the bell curve. There is most definitely a maximum number of organisms Tyranids as a civilization can support before they implode and are threatened with extinction by overpopulation, the only solution to which is cannibalism. The thing though is that we don't know what exactly this number caps at, and if they've reached it in the past or are heading to it.

The most logical conclusion however is that Tyranid numbers are diminished from their full glory after they've immediately consumed a galaxy, and are having to build up again for war again. We've seen multiple parts of the Black Library pointing to the Tyranid Hive Fleets ridding themselves of unnecessary biomorphs and consuming them for later use. They also sent the Genestealers in at an earlier time, maybe even long in the past as probes to find biomass to consume, which also points to the Tyranids being fearful of wasting energy, which means it sure isn't free for them.

 morganfreeman wrote:

 LumenPraebeo wrote:
If they were smarter than man, or superior, the Imperium of man would have been dead already. Think of it like man and wolves. Wolves have not proven themselves superior to man yet. And I doubt they ever will. Or roaches and man.

-But tyranids are much deadlier than wolves and more viral than roaches.
And the Imperium is much deadlier and numerous than modern day man, or ancient man.

The Even if the Imperium out-numbered the Tyranids with regards to manpower (they don't), the Imperium has one fatal flow: It uses planets.

Nids don't use planets, they just strip mine them and keep going. Ergo every time they take a planet from the Imperium they not only gain ground and kill that many 'umies, but they make it so there's absolutely no potential for that planet to be a threat ever again. It will never be resettled, repopulated, or re-established. It's gone.

Orks can terraform it and put organic matter back down if a Rokk hits it. Hence why the Orks and Tyranids are a perfect match as symbiotic civilizations, or at least the perfect fitting puzzle piece that enables stability for both factions. Tyranids are the farmers that reap what the Orks sow.

 Wyzilla wrote:


Orks can terraform it and put organic matter back down if a Rokk hits it. Hence why the Orks and Tyranids are a perfect match as symbiotic civilizations, or at least the perfect fitting puzzle piece that enables stability for both factions. Tyranids are the farmers that reap what the Orks sow.

It's a damned shame that the Imperium isn't made up of Orks then aint it?

Also, I'd kind of argue against Orks being able to do that. I mean Tyranids leave -nothing- behind. No precious metals, no water, no atmosphere, no dirt, no nothing. There's literally just rock; they take everything else.

Orks are hardy, but I'm skeptical of their ability to ekk out a living on literally rock alone. At absolute best they'd be able to salvage and re-use what they came to the planet with, but the fact that they have nothing on the planet to use means that they'd eventually just be stuck there bashing eachothers heads in whilst running around butt naked.

Basically they wouldn't be common Orkish low tech, they'd be no tech. Not even rock weapons; just rocks.

 morganfreeman wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:


Orks can terraform it and put organic matter back down if a Rokk hits it. Hence why the Orks and Tyranids are a perfect match as symbiotic civilizations, or at least the perfect fitting puzzle piece that enables stability for both factions. Tyranids are the farmers that reap what the Orks sow.

It's a damned shame that the Imperium isn't made up of Orks then aint it?

Also, I'd kind of argue against Orks being able to do that. I mean Tyranids leave -nothing- behind. No precious metals, no water, no atmosphere, no dirt, no nothing. There's literally just rock; they take everything else.

Orks are hardy, but I'm skeptical of their ability to ekk out a living on literally rock alone. At absolute best they'd be able to salvage and re-use what they came to the planet with, but the fact that they have nothing on the planet to use means that they'd eventually just be stuck there bashing eachothers heads in whilst running around butt naked.

Basically they wouldn't be common Orkish low tech, they'd be no tech. Not even rock weapons; just rocks.

I'm pretty sure they could survive. The only real problem would the process taking a couple centuries or maybe a millennia to rebuild the atmosphere, but all that matters is that the magnetic core of the planet is still intact to shield it from gamma rays. But Orks seem perfeclty suited to sweeping through a galaxy the 'Nids cleared and repopulating it with life.

I've also got to sig that.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
You are applying modern day logic and physics to a universe approximately 39,000 years from now. We would know much more then and more likely than not would have found a way to be 100% efficient.

...No. I really don't think you understand this. Granted, there are some parts of physics we know gak-all about, especially Quantum physics, which will likely look very very different in the future. But Thermodynamics is one of those absolute laws of the universe that cannot be broken- it doesn't matter how advanced you are or how old your civilization is, it's an absolute rule that doesn't change so long as you're in this universe. While I could see something like Daemons being completely efficient by them coming from an alternate universe/dimension that does not abide by the physical laws of ours, nids? They're under by our rules and have to play by them.... or else. It's the simple fact. set in stone, that energy cannot be completely applied to something without losing some of it. This isn't going to change inf thirty eight thousand years from now. We might maybe cheat by entering a different universe, but in our home universe? There's no getting around it.

Plus again, there is absolutely NO evidence pointing to Tyranids operating at 100% efficiency! If something was actually 100% efficient, it would not need to eat in the first place. However we do know Tyranids need to eat, which means they do suffer from a diminishing return of energy, and that their numbers do have a cap on the bell curve. There is most definitely a maximum number of organisms Tyranids as a civilization can support before they implode and are threatened with extinction by overpopulation, the only solution to which is cannibalism. The thing though is that we don't know what exactly this number caps at, and if they've reached it in the past or are heading to it.

The most logical conclusion however is that Tyranid numbers are diminished from their full glory after they've immediately consumed a galaxy, and are having to build up again for war again. We've seen multiple parts of the Black Library pointing to the Tyranid Hive Fleets ridding themselves of unnecessary biomorphs and consuming them for later use. They also sent the Genestealers in at an earlier time, maybe even long in the past as probes to find biomass to consume, which also points to the Tyranids being fearful of wasting energy, which means it sure isn't free for them.

 morganfreeman wrote:

 LumenPraebeo wrote:
If they were smarter than man, or superior, the Imperium of man would have been dead already. Think of it like man and wolves. Wolves have not proven themselves superior to man yet. And I doubt they ever will. Or roaches and man.

-But tyranids are much deadlier than wolves and more viral than roaches.
And the Imperium is much deadlier and numerous than modern day man, or ancient man.

The Even if the Imperium out-numbered the Tyranids with regards to manpower (they don't), the Imperium has one fatal flow: It uses planets.

Nids don't use planets, they just strip mine them and keep going. Ergo every time they take a planet from the Imperium they not only gain ground and kill that many 'umies, but they make it so there's absolutely no potential for that planet to be a threat ever again. It will never be resettled, repopulated, or re-established. It's gone.

Orks can terraform it and put organic matter back down if a Rokk hits it. Hence why the Orks and Tyranids are a perfect match as symbiotic civilizations, or at least the perfect fitting puzzle piece that enables stability for both factions. Tyranids are the farmers that reap what the Orks sow.

Always wanted to quote this.

"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."

Just because we don't know that they are 100% efficient, does not mean that we don't. A creature that can continuously evolve to adapt to absolutely anything it wants sounds efficient to me. The Tyranids simply require bio-mass to initiate the process, but where in any lore does it state they actually need food?

 Wyzilla wrote:
Plus again, there is absolutely NO evidence pointing to Tyranids operating at 100% efficiency! If something was actually 100% efficient, it would not need to eat in the first place. However we do know Tyranids need to eat, which means they do suffer from a diminishing return of energy, and that their numbers do have a cap on the bell curve. There is most definitely a maximum number of organisms Tyranids as a civilization can support before they implode and are threatened with extinction by overpopulation, the only solution to which is cannibalism. The thing though is that we don't know what exactly this number caps at, and if they've reached it in the past or are heading to it.

But there's no evidence of that happening either.And I don't think they're gonna die from overpopulation either. From what we know so far, they do have enough life forms to cover a large portion of the galaxy. So what we do know is that its possible they're bigger than that.
What are you gonna do if the next Tyranid codex that comes out says Tyranids waste no energy whatsoever when they're on the move?