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Why does LEO need crew serve weapons again? Anyone help me buy a clue for that?
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Maintaining the vehicles is expensive, armored vehicles can't be taken to the standard auto shop for repairs not can they be taken to you local tire place every time they need a new wheel. They require a bit more work then you standard ASE mechanic. That means bringing on an extra mechanic that has those skills. Sourcing parts for repair and service is also more expensive as they are a non standard item and not stocked by local supply and vendors. I worked as a mechanic in a service shop and we'd occasionally get in municipal vehicles, we could service some stuff but since most of their vehicles required higher rated tires for safety concerns they are much more expensive then comparable civilian vehicles. Tires on an average police cruiser run about $450 a piece, ambulance tires are around $1400, the tires on an armored vehicle likely several thousand each. Keeping the vehicle in running order would likely equal the budget for maintaining several normal squads, not to mention factoring in how much more gas armored military vehicles tend to consume even just with occasional use. An 11 ton armored vehicle is not cheap to maintain.
Except that MRAP/MATV is not going to some "local" vehicle repair shop. Maintenance contracts are going to go with the vehicles from Oshkosh. They also outsource maintenance contracts to a few others contract firms. Or the state can, after bingo maintenance contracts, service the vehicles at National Guard "Third Shop" for military vehicles since they fall under "Heavy Wheel Mechanic MOS" domain. I have yet to see a old school HUMVEE or up armor go to a local repair shop for maintenance
Not to mention that actually, depending on model the engine is actually a fairly standard "large power diesel" engine... Gen 1 MRAPs were International semi-trucks with altered chassis in order to have the purpose built bodies on them.
Is it bad of me to wonder when I'll start seeing them at the military surplus store alongside the old deuce and halfs, and 5 tons?
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Wife will kill me if she see's me driving up the drive way in that....
Off note.
Ensis you game at the Puyallup store? The one run by Jay?
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Ensis you game at the Puyallup store? The one run by Jay?
The GW on Meridian, or Game Matrix?? Lol
If its the first, I've been there, but I'm still not caught up on editions... I'd love to get some games in, or meet some folks who prefer gaming at home around here (I honestly prefer the "beer games" to in store)
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Great. So criminal organizations, corporate security, and other deep pocketed groups with agendas would be fine too, right? And they would never do anything bad with those legal toys. Right?
And the "evil" government and law enforcement agencies would then have justification for getting even scarier gear because every Tom, Dick and Captain Badass living in his silo-fort are now legitimate threats that need to be countered. Congrats! We now live in the Shadowrun universe.
criminal organizations
criminal
Because they follow the law?
corporate security
That already have "Military Grade" weapons? Search PMC.
If I had the money to own and maintain a M1A2 abrams, why should I not be allowed to own one? Why are you afraid of something that I own?
Yeah, criminal organizations. Because in this What If scenario military grade toys are legal. So, why wouldn't the Mafia go down to Walmart to buy AT rockets? They have the deep pockets you mentioned previously that would prevent regular civvies from going on mass murder sprees due to the costs involved in procuring military grade ordinance. That was your counter argument, wasn't it? So I am offering suggestions of groups who would GLEEFULLY buy legal military gear if it was stupidly made available.
Look, because the civilians and the military in the late 18th century had rough parity in terms of weaponry doesn't mean the 2nd amendment should allow Grey Templar to own a rocket launcher. It is a stupid assertion to make.
Great. So criminal organizations, corporate security, and other deep pocketed groups with agendas would be fine too, right? And they would never do anything bad with those legal toys. Right?
And the "evil" government and law enforcement agencies would then have justification for getting even scarier gear because every Tom, Dick and Captain Badass living in his silo-fort are now legitimate threats that need to be countered. Congrats! We now live in the Shadowrun universe.
criminal organizations
criminal
Because they follow the law?
corporate security
That already have "Military Grade" weapons? Search PMC.
If I had the money to own and maintain a M1A2 abrams, why should I not be allowed to own one? Why are you afraid of something that I own?
Yeah, criminal organizations. Because in this What If scenario military grade toys are legal. So, why wouldn't the Mafia go down to Walmart to buy AT rockets? They have the deep pockets you mentioned previously that would prevent regular civvies from going on mass murder sprees due to the costs involved in procuring military grade ordinance. That was your counter argument, wasn't it? So I am offering suggestions of groups who would GLEEFULLY buy legal military gear if it was stupidly made available.
Look, because the civilians and the military in the late 18th century had rough parity in terms of weaponry doesn't mean the 2nd amendment should allow Grey Templar to own a rocket launcher. It is a stupid assertion to make.
Actually it should.
And no, the mafia isn't going to go to Walmart to purchase their weapons. And Walmart wouldn't be selling things which would have 5-6 figure price tags.
The mafia also would know that buying said weapons wouldn't be cost effective. They get the results they want with much cheaper hand guns.
And any criminal organizations who really want high explosives can get them. RPGs are a dime a dozen on the black market and would be a cinch to smuggle over the border. Having a domestically available source doesn't really make it easier.
The point of the 2nd amendment was so that the people would always have the capacity to overthrow the government. This would be the natural conclusion of that fundamental right.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Great. So criminal organizations, corporate security, and other deep pocketed groups with agendas would be fine too, right? And they would never do anything bad with those legal toys. Right?
And the "evil" government and law enforcement agencies would then have justification for getting even scarier gear because every Tom, Dick and Captain Badass living in his silo-fort are now legitimate threats that need to be countered. Congrats! We now live in the Shadowrun universe.
criminal organizations
criminal
Because they follow the law?
corporate security
That already have "Military Grade" weapons? Search PMC.
If I had the money to own and maintain a M1A2 abrams, why should I not be allowed to own one? Why are you afraid of something that I own?
Yeah, criminal organizations. Because in this What If scenario military grade toys are legal. So, why wouldn't the Mafia go down to Walmart to buy AT rockets? They have the deep pockets you mentioned previously that would prevent regular civvies from going on mass murder sprees due to the costs involved in procuring military grade ordinance. That was your counter argument, wasn't it? So I am offering suggestions of groups who would GLEEFULLY buy legal military gear if it was stupidly made available.
Look, because the civilians and the military in the late 18th century had rough parity in terms of weaponry doesn't mean the 2nd amendment should allow Grey Templar to own a rocket launcher. It is a stupid assertion to make.
Actually it should.
And no, the mafia isn't going to go to Walmart to purchase their weapons. And Walmart wouldn't be selling things which would have 5-6 figure price tags.
The mafia also would know that buying said weapons wouldn't be cost effective. They get the results they want with much cheaper hand guns.
And any criminal organizations who really want high explosives can get them. RPGs are a dime a dozen on the black market and would be a cinch to smuggle over the border. Having a domestically available source doesn't really make it easier.
The point of the 2nd amendment was so that the people would always have the capacity to overthrow the government. This would be the natural conclusion of that fundamental right.
You stated that military ordinance should be made available to you thanks to the 2nd amendment. That is a ridiculous statement for a number of reasons, including the arms race that would occur between government and non-government bodies. It is ridiculous because the world that existed in the 1770's is not the same world that we live in in 2014.
*Well feth. I had an addendum to this post and hit the cancel button instead of the update button.
Ugh. Nevermind.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/10 23:43:18
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
There wouldn't be any arms race. The private citizens would never be able to have anywhere near as much hardware as the government would.
I want the right to be able to have the hardware, a right that hopefully I will never have to exercise or use.
The most any citizen would realistically be expected to have would be a few RPGs or HMGs. Which I think is perfectly reasonable.
And given the militarization of the police force(and the increased government trampling on our rights) it seems entirely reasonable, and even necessary.
The world may have changed since 1776, but not in the respect that we are safe from tyranny and oppression from our own government(the government has greatly expanded its power)
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: There wouldn't be any arms race. The private citizens would never be able to have anywhere near as much hardware as the government would.
I want the right to be able to have the hardware, a right that hopefully I will never have to exercise or use.
The most any citizen would realistically be expected to have would be a few RPGs or HMGs. Which I think is perfectly reasonable.
How can you say there wouldn't be an arms race when police have already been adding to their arsenals since the 90's to counter ever more powerful criminals?
If each citizen could have a few RPGs or HMGs, even if there were limits, what would stop a group of like minded individuals from forming up and pooling their resources? Now there is a well armed militia that could do massive amounts of damage. Instead of three dead people in a Cici's Pizza we could have 65 dead and an entire strip mall aflame. And police and government agencies wouldn't need to get even more substantial gear to thwart that danger? I don't see how an arms race wouldn't occur.
It just seems like a bad, bad idea to give people that much destructive power for a "what if" scenario that likely won't ever occur.
You also have to figure that, while we pay what... 1.2 million or so for the M1 Abrams tank, that cost (whatever it actually is) is based per unit on a BULK order.
If a private citizen wanted to own an M1 abrams I'd figure you'd pay more like 1.8 or 2 million for a single tank.
And then it'd sit there, because you should realize that there aint a towing company in America with something big enough to haul it around should you break it
As GT pointed out, most of us civvies wouldn't be able to afford the kind of toys the govt has. At least not on any meaningful scale.
Grey Templar wrote: There wouldn't be any arms race. The private citizens would never be able to have anywhere near as much hardware as the government would.
I want the right to be able to have the hardware, a right that hopefully I will never have to exercise or use.
The most any citizen would realistically be expected to have would be a few RPGs or HMGs. Which I think is perfectly reasonable.
How can you say there wouldn't be an arms race when police have already been adding to their arsenals since the 90's to counter ever more powerful criminals?
If each citizen could have a few RPGs or HMGs, even if there were limits, what would stop a group of like minded individuals from forming up and pooling their resources? Now there is a well armed militia that could do massive amounts of damage. Instead of three dead people in a Cici's Pizza we could have 65 dead and an entire strip mall aflame. And police and government agencies wouldn't need to get even more substantial gear to thwart that danger? I don't see how an arms race wouldn't occur.
It just seems like a bad, bad idea to give people that much destructive power for a "what if" scenario that likely won't ever occur.
Given that there are already people who have armories like that, legally or not, and we haven't had a mass killing involving those I'd say we are pretty safe.
Most mass shootings aren't even committed using the scary "military style assault weapons" that everyone wants to ban. They're done with shotguns or handguns which are legal everywhere and nobody is trying to ban.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Well nobody sane anyway
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/11 00:13:48
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Jihadin wrote: Why does LEO need crew serve weapons again? Anyone help me buy a clue for that?
For the Children!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Due to budget cuts. Walls and cliffs are way cheaper
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Jihadin wrote: Why does LEO need crew serve weapons again? Anyone help me buy a clue for that?
For the Children!
You just dont lead them as far
GET SOME! (Exalt!)
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
I feel like I should get that joke, but its eluding me.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Defense contractors built so many MRAPs, might as well not let them go to waste. The coment about vets building IEDs was dumb but a lot of the military's unneeded COIN equipment might as well go the the police, better than just taking up space.
And its not like the police haven't already got assault rifles and silencers and stuff like that. The military isn't going to be handing out M1A2s any time soon so I'm not sure what the issue here is?
Romania and Poland brought quite bit of MRAPS family. Israel brought some but they asked for mostly the Uparmor Frag 7 HUMVEE's.
Egypt received Frag 7's
Not sure on Jordan but a couple MATV's
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
In response to the allegations that cops have something to fear in the U.S. there were 39 slain LEOs in 2013... meanwhile LEOs killed 316 individuals. 10 to 1, now that list is wiki sourced AND includes bad guys, but if any one's got any thing to fear in the U.S. I'm more scared of the guy with the badge just based on the numbers.
If I'm lucky he'll just shoot my dog.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
So, now "2nd Amendment supporters" are arguing that it is for Universal weapon systems? That means the "terrorists" could legally buy a Nuke right?
This is why we can't have a rational debate on weapons. The goal posts move to insanity in attempts to move the Overton Window.
The new Chicago Code:
1. If they disrespect you you send one of theirs to the hospital
2. If they send one of yours to the hospital you send one of their to the morgue.
3. If they send one of yours to the morgue, you use a chemical weapon attack to kill everyone in their neighborhood.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/11 16:11:05
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Your right. This is why we can't have rational debate, because people always make ludicrous claims about militia-Bob having 5 million sitting around to buy a nuke.
I remember way back in 90's. We switched to Kiowa Warriors and the old OH-58 were being passed down to LEO. Quite a few were destroyed because states could not fund their operations for their LEO's
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
djones520 wrote: Ahhh... comforting to know that police agencies around the country view me as the enemy now...
"Welcome home. Thank you for serving your country abroad. Your benefits have been slashed from what was agreed when you signed up. You should hope not to end up on a secret list when you go to the VA. Illegal immigrants will get more benefits, and get them before you. You should also be aware that because you served your country we will now consider you a domestic terrorist. Have a super sparkly day"
