Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 djones520 wrote:
Your right. This is why we can't have rational debate, because people always make ludicrous claims about militia-Bob having 5 million sitting around to buy a nuke.

Okay, I will replace Nuke with Long Tom artillery piece.

So, now "2nd Amendment supporters" are arguing that it is for Universal weapon systems? That means the any old milita wannabe could legally buy a Long Tom artillery piece right?

This is why we can't have a rational debate on weapons. The goal posts move to insanity in attempts to move the Overton Window.

The new Chicago Code:
1. If they disrespect you you send one of theirs to the hospital
2. If they send one of yours to the hospital you send one of their to the morgue.
3. If they send one of yours to the morgue, you shell the neighborhood into rubble.

Does that make any sense?

Battle Tech Artillery for dollars or C-Bills?

 Easy E wrote:
Does that make any sense?

In a word: No

 EmilCrane wrote:
Defense contractors built so many MRAPs, might as well not let them go to waste. The coment about vets building IEDs was dumb but a lot of the military's unneeded COIN equipment might as well go the the police, better than just taking up space.

And its not like the police haven't already got assault rifles and silencers and stuff like that. The military isn't going to be handing out M1A2s any time soon so I'm not sure what the issue here is?

No its better to let it take up space. We didn't hand out M48 tanks to the PoPo either.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Ahhh... comforting to know that police agencies around the country view me as the enemy now...

"Welcome home. Thank you for serving your country abroad. Your benefits have been slashed from what was agreed when you signed up. You should hope not to end up on a secret list when you go to the VA. Illegal immigrants will get more benefits, and get them before you. You should also be aware that because you served your country we will now consider you a domestic terrorist. Have a super sparkly day"

This. Freaking cops man.

Also can someone tell me what Easy E's on about? He seems to just be rambling.

Not sure. Thinking he wants a game of Battle Tech

When I saw Long Tom I thought

"I want one on my Atlas"

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Ahhh... comforting to know that police agencies around the country view me as the enemy now...

"Welcome home. Thank you for serving your country abroad. Your benefits have been slashed from what was agreed when you signed up. You should hope not to end up on a secret list when you go to the VA. Illegal immigrants will get more benefits, and get them before you. You should also be aware that because you served your country we will now consider you a domestic terrorist. Have a super sparkly day"

This. Freaking cops man.

Also can someone tell me what Easy E's on about? He seems to just be rambling.

Not sure... he thinks *I'm* unreasonable!!

He got me in the mood for a Battetech game though

 Jihadin wrote:
He got me in the mood for a Battetech game though

I never ran a Urbanmech. Refuse to do so. Laio POS mech

The Long Tom is a 155M artillery piece. It would be perfectly acceptable for anyone to own according to Grey Templar under his interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

I happen to think this is an insane idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/155_mm_Long_Tom

You can own it. Just cannot have the pin in the firing block same as tanks
As for ammo Good luck on locating 155mm rounds on the commercial market

 Easy E wrote:
The Long Tom is a 155M artillery piece. It would be perfectly acceptable for anyone to own according to Grey Templar under his interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

I happen to think this is an insane idea.



Why is it insane?? I mean, how much does/did it cost the US military to purchase them? As I sort of showed in my Abrams example earlier in the thread, the DoD (and other nations' militaries) pays a reduced rate for buying a bunch at once... I'd heard from supply and armorers in my prior units that the US Govt spends around 800 per rifle on the M-16/M-4... If you look online, a standard semi-auto AR-15 chambered in 5.56mm goes for around what... 1500?? that's what, a 50% or so discount? Assuming the military pays a reduced rate for the larger field guns/howitzers means that it will quite literally be priced out of the average citizens buying power.

 Frazzled wrote:

 EmilCrane wrote:
Defense contractors built so many MRAPs, might as well not let them go to waste. The coment about vets building IEDs was dumb but a lot of the military's unneeded COIN equipment might as well go the the police, better than just taking up space.

And its not like the police haven't already got assault rifles and silencers and stuff like that. The military isn't going to be handing out M1A2s any time soon so I'm not sure what the issue here is?

No its better to let it take up space. We didn't hand out M48 tanks to the PoPo either.

So now an MRAP is a battle tank?

Funny you should mention a MRAP as a Battle tank....

 Jihadin wrote:
You can own it. Just cannot have the pin in the firing block same as tanks
As for ammo Good luck on locating 155mm rounds on the commercial market

I think you know what I meant. I happen to know a person who's business is all about getting armored vehicles and tanks for people to drive around in. That is not what Grey Templar is supporting.

He wants tanks that are fully capable of firing off live rounds because that is his inalienable right under the 2nd Amendment. Maybe I'm misinterpreting him, but tha tis what I got from his comments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
means that it will quite literally be priced out of the average citizens buying power.

Yes, the Average citizen. By definition that means there will be some sub-set of people that can buy such items. In addition, several people can pool their money together and buy one as well.

You know there is a reason we regulate fertilizer sales, that reason applies to why you can't have a 155mm artillery piece.

To add more to the firing pin and since its sensitive item. You cannot get the gunner sight deflection nor elevation component for it. Also a collimeter. Aiming poles can be made and taking out 100m in a 45 degree angle of the piece. Without the collimeter and reliable FDC its only good for direct fire mode. I do know though there is a modification using a 50 cal round as a 155mm round

 Jihadin wrote:
Funny you should mention a MRAP as a Battle tank....

I'm not the person who made the original comparison. So if you want to "mention it", mention it to your good ol' boy Frazzled.

Plowed through a house in one

I see no problem with the armored vehicles.
A large measure of safety I would not begrudge the police.
May have to monitor civilian casualties due to "crushed to death by vehicle".

Weapons at full automatic however is contrary to any attempt at public safety. Should have a notification if set at full auto a 10 pound pile of reports will have to be filled out in triplicate and after the gun battle you have to pepper spray yourself in the eyes (just to be sure you REALLY need that full auto).

Funny, in the news here in Canada a "gun advocate" decided it would be funny to shoot 5 RCMP in a town called Moncton.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-shootings-rcmp-will-review-how-to-prevent-similar-incident-1.2669236

Crazy is as crazy does, so when they get the big guns it seems responsible to up-gun the law enforcement.

It is hard though when to the core of your being you do not "trust" the government to have your best interests at heart. To see the very public arm of enforcing the will of the government receive some over the top kit can make one nervous as a citizen.

What is that phrase, "You can have freedom or security, but you cannot have both."

The police should never be that protected. What's the point of having the 2nd to keep the government in check if our bullets won't penetrate their armor!

 Talizvar wrote:

What is that phrase, "You can have freedom or security, but you cannot have both."

I believe the phrase is "he who is willing to sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither" ... could also replace "deserves" with "gets"

 d-usa wrote:
The police should never be that protected. What's the point of having the 2nd to keep the government in check if our bullets won't penetrate their armor!

Hey if you like cops patrolling American streets Fallujah style I hear they need nurses in Baghdad.

If cops like patrolling the streets Fallujah style I hear they need security guys in Baghdad and soldiers in the military.

Wearing all that body armor will trim them up
Though some won't drink water constantly
Unions would ask for more money since its above and beyond then what's required for their job
Cops operating a crew serve, which would be a massacre in NY being how they train their LEO on taking down a suspect
Cops be tired of the weight and remove plates out of them and then sue the industry for making faulty gear
Cops having heart attacks from all the neat tacticool gear they can mount on the body armor

 Jihadin wrote:
Wearing all that body armor will trim them up
Though some won't drink water constantly
Unions would ask for more money since its above and beyond then what's required for their job
Cops operating a crew serve, which would be a massacre in NY being how they train their LEO on taking down a suspect
Cops be tired of the weight and remove plates out of them and then sue the industry for making faulty gear
Cops having heart attacks from all the neat tacticool gear they can mount on the body armor

On the plus side, many of them already have the proper mustache

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Wearing all that body armor will trim them up
Though some won't drink water constantly
Unions would ask for more money since its above and beyond then what's required for their job
Cops operating a crew serve, which would be a massacre in NY being how they train their LEO on taking down a suspect
Cops be tired of the weight and remove plates out of them and then sue the industry for making faulty gear
Cops having heart attacks from all the neat tacticool gear they can mount on the body armor

On the plus side, many of them already have the proper mustache

 Frazzled wrote:

 EmilCrane wrote:
Defense contractors built so many MRAPs, might as well not let them go to waste. The coment about vets building IEDs was dumb but a lot of the military's unneeded COIN equipment might as well go the the police, better than just taking up space.

And its not like the police haven't already got assault rifles and silencers and stuff like that. The military isn't going to be handing out M1A2s any time soon so I'm not sure what the issue here is?

No its better to let it take up space. We didn't hand out M48 tanks to the PoPo either.

An MRAP is not an M48, for one thing the M48 has a 90 or 105mm cannon, MRAPs come unarmed, or at least their function is unchanged if you remove the pintle mount. No one is talking about giving the police MBTs, but those MRAPs are going to waste and they actually have police applications, or least could be used by the police. A tank could not.

 EmilCrane wrote:

An MRAP is not an M48, for one thing the M48 has a 90 or 105mm cannon, MRAPs come unarmed, or at least their function is unchanged if you remove the pintle mount. No one is talking about giving the police MBTs, but those MRAPs are going to waste and they actually have police applications, or least could be used by the police. A tank could not.

Actually, I'd rather see more of these MRAPs and the like retro fitted for S/R or forest fire/fire fighting duties, rather than your typical law enforcement applications. They can handle some pretty rugged terrain, and are pretty good at moving people from point A to B and I think people would be far less "against" the idea if they knew they were being used for strictly "good" things.