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So guys I'm finally putting together my space marine army and I was starting out with a couple tactical squads.

So basically at the moment I'm building them with 1 flame thrower and 1 missile launcher as that seems to be the most well rounded of the set-ups.. but my question comes in on the Sarg. What is the most common setup for them? I'm a new player so I might need a little walk through on them but I was curious about the weapon, long vs melee, vs pistol etc etc. So drop some 40k knowledge on me please ... and what is the deal with combi weapons?? thanks!!!

Mitchell

Combi-gun all the way. You want your Sergeant shooty since he is a member of a shooty squad. Usually you want to match your special.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Combi-gun all the way. You want your Sergeant shooty since he is a member of a shooty squad. Usually you want to match your special.

So saying that the special is a flamer I'd want to go with a combi flamer? I was thinking maybe a melta or something for use against armor. Urg just too many options lol.

I would honestly suggest doubling up and taking Melta as a special though this depends on your list. What are you running?

Right now all I have is a strike force that I'm putting together and from there who knows lol.

Flamer and ml isn't a good idea. Plasma and rl is what I'd do or ml and grav. Your sarge should either have a grav pistol, a storm bolter, or a combi-weapon. Melta bombs are also not a bad idea.

Avoid giving tactical marine sargeants special melee weapons unless your running salamanders (sargeants get a free master crafted weapon upgrade) or iron hands (fnp for days)

Make your tactical squads fill a role. If their medium & long range make them all be able to do that, if their going to be medium and short ranged make them all be able to do that. However you can make the combi weapon the "well rounded" weapon in the list letting them counter what your otherwise have no counter for

Here are some *examples*:
1x10, plasma gun, plasma cannon, plasma pistol
1x5 multi melta, combi melta
1x10 missile launcher, grav gun
1x10 heavy bolter, flamer, combi melta/combi grav

(devestators)
1x5 rocket launchers & plasma cannons
1x5 grav cannons, lascannons

See what I'm doing here they can all fight at the range you want and nobody is sitting on their arse

the only problem is the tactical squads that came in the strike force do not have any other heavy weapons besides a ml. But they did come with the full line of special weapons, flamer, multi, grav, and plasma rifle.

The idea I got for the flamer, and ml was from a lot of research over the last couple days I've been doing that said that was the go to for a jack of all trades tac squad. With the sarg hold a chainsword.

I'd like to get the devestators so I can get access to the other heavy weapons but at the moment I need Drop pods and Rhino's more lol

The Flamer and ML combo has the issue of having no focus. If you want to do long ranged blasting your flamer is worthless. If you want to burn things your missile launcher is useless. A snap firing Krak missile simply isn't worth the points. You'd be better served by a Boltgun.

Personally I have recently started to use double pistol on my sergeants and it has shown to be fairly effective even though somewhat expensive pointwise.
The heavy weapon options for tacticals should try to cover areas where you are weak or support the weapons already in the squad.
For Anti-Flyers Missile Launchers are good, they are also decent against most other targets except Heavy Vehicles and Teq.
For Anti infantry you will want either Heavy Bolters or Plasma Cannons.
For Anti-Tank your best options are Multi-meltas and Lascannons.

My tacticals usually looks something like this:

10 Tacs : Grav-gun, 2*Grav-Pistol(Sgt) + optional heavy weapon

10 Tacs : Plasma gun, 2* Plasma Pistol(Sgt) + optional heavy weapon

10 Tacs: Meltagun, Combi-Melta(Sgt), Multi-melta

For getting (heavy) flamers, I either use Sternguard, Assault Marines, Speeders or Dreadnoughts as units with flamers tend to either need to assault afterwards or get assaulted/shot to pieces in the following turn.

Got ya guys, yeah I guess I'll have to buy a couple devastator squads for the heavy weapons.

I figured being short on units as I'm just starting out a well rounded squad would be better off for me... Since all I got is 20 tacs at the moment. But I get where you guys are coming from though.

Welcome to the world of space marines. I like the strikeforce box for a bunch of reasons, but as a basis for a standalone army it has some issues. The big one being a lack of solid anti tank firepower.

Here is a list I tossed together for a ~1,250 WYSWYG list based just off of the strikeforce



One tac squad combat squads the ML off and sends the melta and c-melta forward in the razor, the other just can either stick together or separate as needed. While I almost always field a ML/F basic sarge tac squad personally, my army lists are heavily influenced by nostalgia. From an effectiveness on the table POV, they are jack of all trades generalists, and top lists tend towards specialization. Not that take all comers lists are hopeless, I do OK with mine, but if you are looking for “The Best” specialize.

But as you sift through the option in the strikeforce, ask yourself what can scratch a tank? The TLLCs from the ven dread and razorback, the meltaguns and c-meltas on the tac and captain/command sprues, and then the MLs from the tacs and scouts. For a force this size, I like a bit more, so we can’t afford to squander what we have.

For expanding your army, a devastator box should be on your short list. Having more then MLs is a huge boost. The dev box will give you the bits to make 2x LC/PC/HB and a single MM and ML. It’s worth finding the extra power armor bodies to make them all.

More transports is another solid idea for what to pick up next.

 Nevelon wrote:
Welcome to the world of space marines. I like the strikeforce box for a bunch of reasons, but as a basis for a standalone army it has some issues. The big one being a lack of solid anti tank firepower.

Here is a list I tossed together for a ~1,250 WYSWYG list based just off of the strikeforce

Spoiler:

Captain, command squad (apoth, plus extras)
-Drop pod

Ven dread, TLLC, DCCW(SB)

5 Man assault marines, 2xflamer, vet sarge w/sword, meltabombs

10 man tac, ML/Meltagun, c-melta on sarge
--TLLC razorback

10 man tac, ML/plasma, c-plas on sarge

5 man scout, 4 sniper, 1 ML, camo


How to kit out the captain and what toys to hand to the command squad is up to personal preference, but the way this list is set up you have around 200 points to do so. If you are worried about flyers, the 3 MLs can be upgraded to flack missiles, and the TLLCs have a chance of splashing a bird. 2 chances to roll a 6 might not be the best per shot, but few flyers enjoy getting hit with a lascannon. By trimming upgrades and wargear, you could probably fit this under 1k if you wanted to use everything, or just drop a unit.

One tac squad combat squads the ML off and sends the melta and c-melta forward in the razor, the other just can either stick together or separate as needed. While I almost always field a ML/F basic sarge tac squad personally, my army lists are heavily influenced by nostalgia. From an effectiveness on the table POV, they are jack of all trades generalists, and top lists tend towards specialization. Not that take all comers lists are hopeless, I do OK with mine, but if you are looking for “The Best” specialize.

But as you sift through the option in the strikeforce, ask yourself what can scratch a tank? The TLLCs from the ven dread and razorback, the meltaguns and c-meltas on the tac and captain/command sprues, and then the MLs from the tacs and scouts. For a force this size, I like a bit more, so we can’t afford to squander what we have.

For expanding your army, a devastator box should be on your short list. Having more then MLs is a huge boost. The dev box will give you the bits to make 2x LC/PC/HB and a single MM and ML. It’s worth finding the extra power armor bodies to make them all.

More transports is another solid idea for what to pick up next.

Thank you so much for the really detailed reply and explaining the ideas behind what you were doing. I'm planning on picking up more as I go along but I'd like to get this rolling before investing a lot. My short list as it sets depends on if I want to go with Rhino's or Drop Pod style army... not sure about that. But I want to pick up multiple of both of those, along with another box of tac marines and a box of the dev marines. A land raider, the ultra's chapter master, along with a flyer to round it out a little bit. But as you can tally up that's quite a bit of coin to drop on it right now. I'm wanting to take it nice and slow to start with and learn as I go. Though if I go with the drop pod army I know I want some Ironclad Dred's with the CC weapons and Double heavy flamers ... saw a couple of those in action my first time at the shop and watched him drop both pods right next to large enemy positions then just completely remove them from the board lol.

One of the perks of Ultramarines is that we can do everything kinda OK. Which way you build your list can depend on your mood of the day and your collection.

One thing that helps with that is magnets. While you don’t need to use them, they help stretch your hobby dollar.

Even if you don’t go full drop, sticking a ironclad in a pod is a good disruption unit. Tossing a monkey wrench into your foe’s backfield turn one can take some of the pressure off of the rest of your army. Also consider sternguard. They love drop pod deployment. From a modeling POV, the sternguard box is packed full of extras. You can probably mix the box up with 5 extra tactical marines and get a full 10 man squad that is still more blinged out then the rest of your army.

In an ideal world, you want an odd number of pods to maximize first turn impact. Three is a good number for hybrid drop/mech lists. Assuming you don’t stab your eyes out after assembling/painting the first one. I love drop pods on the table, hate them on the workbench. YMMV.

To bring the pod discussion back to your question about how to gear your tac squads, the deployment method makes a huge impact on how you gear up. When you start on the table, either on foot or in a rhino, you never know what’s going to come over and try to kill you, or what you are going to be deployed across from you. A TAC load is more viable here. If you are riding into battle in a drop pod, you have the luxury of knowing what you are going to be landing next to. So you can load the tac squad with MM/M, c-melta on the sage and drop next to a juicy tank that craves a little melta love.

Getting some games in an seeing how your style works out is a good idea. Drop pods are not for everyone. Unless you are playing in a very competitive environment, there is a lot of wiggle room on how to build your army. You can take almost anything, as long as you make sure you can cover all your bases.

I run my tactical sergeants naked. They are small units that provide HPs for a heavy weapon or cheap objective grabbers. It saves points to use elsewhere

I always take plasma. Flamers are situational whereas plasma is always a useful choice.

Tac Sarge should be naked bolter+bolt pistol, or maybe have a combi-melta if you built the squad for drop-poddage.
Sometimes, meltabombs can be good too.

 Nevelon wrote:
One of the perks of Ultramarines is that we can do everything kinda OK. Which way you build your list can depend on your mood of the day and your collection.

One thing that helps with that is magnets. While you don’t need to use them, they help stretch your hobby dollar.

Even if you don’t go full drop, sticking a ironclad in a pod is a good disruption unit. Tossing a monkey wrench into your foe’s backfield turn one can take some of the pressure off of the rest of your army. Also consider sternguard. They love drop pod deployment. From a modeling POV, the sternguard box is packed full of extras. You can probably mix the box up with 5 extra tactical marines and get a full 10 man squad that is still more blinged out then the rest of your army.

In an ideal world, you want an odd number of pods to maximize first turn impact. Three is a good number for hybrid drop/mech lists. Assuming you don’t stab your eyes out after assembling/painting the first one. I love drop pods on the table, hate them on the workbench. YMMV.

To bring the pod discussion back to your question about how to gear your tac squads, the deployment method makes a huge impact on how you gear up. When you start on the table, either on foot or in a rhino, you never know what’s going to come over and try to kill you, or what you are going to be deployed across from you. A TAC load is more viable here. If you are riding into battle in a drop pod, you have the luxury of knowing what you are going to be landing next to. So you can load the tac squad with MM/M, c-melta on the sage and drop next to a juicy tank that craves a little melta love.

Getting some games in an seeing how your style works out is a good idea. Drop pods are not for everyone. Unless you are playing in a very competitive environment, there is a lot of wiggle room on how to build your army. You can take almost anything, as long as you make sure you can cover all your bases.

thanks again for the detail. Yeah I plan on using magnets when I built my vehicles etc to get more mileage out of them but the marines are just so small I can't really effectively use the magnets. So I guess my best bet would be to get a box of tac and just build them all with special and heavy weapons to have a variety when I choose what I'm going to drop then. Probably the best idea right? lol.

So for right now, with my only heavy weapon being the ML, what should I put as my special for the two quads and use as the sarg weapons? I'm assuming something similar to your other post like melta, c-melta for one and plasma, c-plasma for the other? What is a good close combat weapon for the sarges??? There is so many options lol.

MitchellTyner wrote:

Thanks again for the detail. Yeah I plan on using magnets when I built my vehicles etc to get more mileage out of them but the marines are just so small I can't really effectively use the magnets. So I guess my best bet would be to get a box of tac and just build them all with special and heavy weapons to have a variety when I choose what I'm going to drop then. Probably the best idea right? lol.

So for right now, with my only heavy weapon being the ML, what should I put as my special for the two quads and use as the sarg weapons? I'm assuming something similar to your other post like melta, c-melta for one and plasma, c-plasma for the other? What is a good close combat weapon for the sarges??? There is so many options lol.

Putting a 2mm magnet into a SM shoulder is not very hard. I’d not bother for special/heavy weapons (I just keep fully built models on the spares shelf to swap in) but for things like captains, sergeants, command squads, or vanguard vets I think it’s worth it. Also jump packs. I’ve only recently started seriously magnetizing my army (within the last year). It’s one of those things I wished I started earlier.

I’m not a big fan of CC toys on tactical sergeants. There is a limit on how many points I want to sink into a one wound model. Think about what you want to kill with him, and if there is going to be a HQ attached to the squad.

Power sword: Kills MEQ, very focused. Of course, there are a lot of MEQ out there that need to be killed.
Power axe: Kills TEQ, but you strike at I 1. Can you live that long?
Power maul: Good for xenos. AP4 means most relevant things are going to get a save, but +2S helps get wounds in.
Power Lance: If you don’t have hit&run, or are a bike/JP sarge, not the best option. Even then, very situational.

Lightning claw: If you want to use a combi weapon and have a CC one, take one of these.
Power fist: Expensive, but will crush things. Same issue as the power axe
Thunder hammer: Like the fist, but you pay 5 points for concussive and looks.

If you plan on keeping a HQ with the squad, things like the axe/fist look better. Someone can’t just single you out with a challenge and kill you before you swing. In general I like the power sword, but I’m a traditionalist like that. Plus the bits are easy to find in a lot of kits. Unlike mauls, which are on the rare side. Keep a bolt pistol for the off hand. Plasma and grav pistols are not worth the points.

 Nevelon wrote:

MitchellTyner wrote:

Thanks again for the detail. Yeah I plan on using magnets when I built my vehicles etc to get more mileage out of them but the marines are just so small I can't really effectively use the magnets. So I guess my best bet would be to get a box of tac and just build them all with special and heavy weapons to have a variety when I choose what I'm going to drop then. Probably the best idea right? lol.

So for right now, with my only heavy weapon being the ML, what should I put as my special for the two quads and use as the sarg weapons? I'm assuming something similar to your other post like melta, c-melta for one and plasma, c-plasma for the other? What is a good close combat weapon for the sarges??? There is so many options lol.

Putting a 2mm magnet into a SM shoulder is not very hard. I’d not bother for special/heavy weapons (I just keep fully built models on the spares shelf to swap in) but for things like captains, sergeants, command squads, or vanguard vets I think it’s worth it. Also jump packs. I’ve only recently started seriously magnetizing my army (within the last year). It’s one of those things I wished I started earlier.

I’m not a big fan of CC toys on tactical sergeants. There is a limit on how many points I want to sink into a one wound model. Think about what you want to kill with him, and if there is going to be a HQ attached to the squad.

Power sword: Kills MEQ, very focused. Of course, there are a lot of MEQ out there that need to be killed.
Power axe: Kills TEQ, but you strike at I 1. Can you live that long?
Power maul: Good for xenos. AP4 means most relevant things are going to get a save, but +2S helps get wounds in.
Power Lance: If you don’t have hit&run, or are a bike/JP sarge, not the best option. Even then, very situational.

Lightning claw: If you want to use a combi weapon and have a CC one, take one of these.
Power fist: Expensive, but will crush things. Same issue as the power axe
Thunder hammer: Like the fist, but you pay 5 points for concussive and looks.

If you plan on keeping a HQ with the squad, things like the axe/fist look better. Someone can’t just single you out with a challenge and kill you before you swing. In general I like the power sword, but I’m a traditionalist like that. Plus the bits are easy to find in a lot of kits. Unlike mauls, which are on the rare side. Keep a bolt pistol for the off hand. Plasma and grav pistols are not worth the points.

So what about the standard chain sword ??? is it on the same level as the power sword?

There is nothing wrong with the humble chainsword. A good number of my sergeants take to the field packing just a bolter of a bolt pistol & chainsword. With the free options, you are taking the points you’d spend here, and putting them to better use elsewhere.

I’m a follower of the “boys before toys” philosophy, believing you are better off with more boots on the ground then fewer, tricked out, ones. So in general, I’m very stingy with the wargear. Each unit should be given just enough tools to get the job done.

There are times I wish I had given my tac sergeants power weapons. I can see the allure of it. But 15 points of upgrades per squad across my whole army will get me another squad. I’ll take that instead. And just shake my head when the marines get into some prolonged slap-fight that could have been quickly won if I wasn’t so stingy.

 Nevelon wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the humble chainsword. A good number of my sergeants take to the field packing just a bolter of a bolt pistol & chainsword. With the free options, you are taking the points you’d spend here, and putting them to better use elsewhere.

I’m a follower of the “boys before toys” philosophy, believing you are better off with more boots on the ground then fewer, tricked out, ones. So in general, I’m very stingy with the wargear. Each unit should be given just enough tools to get the job done.

There are times I wish I had given my tac sergeants power weapons. I can see the allure of it. But 15 points of upgrades per squad across my whole army will get me another squad. I’ll take that instead. And just shake my head when the marines get into some prolonged slap-fight that could have been quickly won if I wasn’t so stingy.

haha yeah I hear you. I've always heard that meltabombs were a good idea though.

But since I'm new what kind of bonus does the chainsword bring to the fight?

Seconding the magnets, it's very much worth doing for special and heavy weapons on troops, characters and probably sergeants too. It's not very fiddly to do once you get the hang of it. If nothing else you can repose your sergeants chainsword while making chainsword noises ; p

 Yonan wrote:
Seconding the magnets, it's very much worth doing for special and heavy weapons on troops, characters and probably sergeants too. It's not very fiddly to do once you get the hang of it. If nothing else you can repose your sergeants chainsword while making chainsword noises ; p

well answer me this then, will a single magnet hold up an arm and the weapon held out? Like will it hold the arm with a bolter on the end of it? I just don't see a single magnet holding that arm on there without it falling down from gravity lol

Sergeants are a good place to put close combat upgrades on tac squads if for no other reason than they're the only place you can, but yeah, tac squads are primarily shooty, so you should make the sarge shootier at the very least.

As for which weapon, as people are saying, it depends on what you're looking for. With the change to precise shot the primacy of combi-plasma is sort of out, which means melta or flamer. Personally, I'd bias towards the melta, because I like meltas, and they give the squad real versatility, while the dude with the flamer is sort of only doing what the rest of the dudes with bolters are already doing. Plus, with a missile launcher as the heavy weapon, you don't have anything with good Ap, or vehicle explosion potential. If the heavy were a multimelta (and the special a melta), then I could see a combi-flamer for the sarge, but as it is, you'll probably benefit from having a bit more oomph to the combi-weapon.

And they make tiny magnets pretty strong these days, I wouldn't worry too much about it. That said, I wouldn't bother magnetizing it at all. If you want a sergeant with a different kit setup, just make another sergeant. Magnets are good for certain things, but it's easy to get too carried away and wind up having to shout "space marines, assemble!" and spend a bunch of time before every game putting your minis together so you can play with them.

MitchellTyner wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
Seconding the magnets, it's very much worth doing for special and heavy weapons on troops, characters and probably sergeants too. It's not very fiddly to do once you get the hang of it. If nothing else you can repose your sergeants chainsword while making chainsword noises ; p

well answer me this then, will a single magnet hold up an arm and the weapon held out? Like will it hold the arm with a bolter on the end of it? I just don't see a single magnet holding that arm on there without it falling down from gravity lol

Yep perfectly strong enough. You can pick a model up by its chainsword and unless you shake it about quite violently, it won't fall off.

Check out this 40k magnet guide on miniwargaming. Has Imperial measurements, but if you go by metric 3x1mm N35+ strength magnets are fine. The stronger the magnets (ie. N42, N50) the better the hold but N35 works - get stronger if you can for a decent price though.

 Ailaros wrote:
That said, I wouldn't bother magnetizing it at all. If you want a sergeant with a different kit setup, just make another sergeant. Magnets are good for certain things, but it's easy to get too carried away and wind up having to shout "space marines, assemble!" and spend a bunch of time before every game putting your minis together so you can play with them.

Yeah it's not necessary as such, but for models that have the option to swap weapons I find it great for a variety of reasons. Saves money on number of models bought, time on number assembled and painted, and most importantly space by not needing to store or carry around 4 bodies instead of 1 for each model that you'd want to swap weapons with on the fly. If that's appealing you magnetise, if not you don't. For straight bolter or chainsword/bolt pistol marines you don't bother - unless you *really* want to cut down on bodies and swap between tac and assault. Even then for assault marines it's worth magnetising backpacks so you can run them with or without them which is pretty important imo.

If I were you, I'd buy an extra Devastator squad just to get all the heavy weapons. I'd also buy an extra tactical squad for enough torsos to make all the special weapons.

This next bit goes against the rest of the advice in this thread but you should have enough torsos and equipment to make a variety of sergeants. The plastic captain with all the options used to be fantastic for providing weapons but it looks like the new tactical boxes already have most of them. I would want a mix of vanilla sergeants, ones with combi weapons and ones with close combat upgrades.

YMMV here because my experience is from 3rd and 4th edition 40k but I used to use my tactical squads to shoot at close range with their bolters and then charge. A power weapon or fist was very useful in the combat, especially against MEQ. Lightning Claws or Thunder Hammers are ideal to combine with combi weapons because you wouldn't be losing an attack on the charge. I have a model with a combi flamer and lightning claw. Modelled because he looks cool. He seems a lot of points but he is surprisingly effective on the battlefield. Protected by his 10 man squad, he and a couple of others almost always got to charge. His flamer shot + the flamer shot of the other guy in the squad was very effective. Then on the charge, he got 3 LC attacks, plus 2 each from whatever members of the squad were left.

But the advice in this thread is spot on. In general you don't want to splash too many points on wargear, and the wargear you do pick is to help the unit fulfil its battlefield role.

MitchellTyner wrote:


haha yeah I hear you. I've always heard that meltabombs were a good idea though.

But since I'm new what kind of bonus does the chainsword bring to the fight?

In my army, melta bombs get handed out at the end of list building to eat up spare points. 4/5s of the time you don’t need them. That last time though, you stand over the smoking pile of slag that used to be a Land Raider, and it makes those 5 points the best you ever spent. Most vehicles have weak back armor, so the krack grenades issued to all marines to a fine job blowing them up in CC. The melta bomb is needed vs. walkers, LRs, and buildings.

The chainsword has no unique mechanics. It’s an additional close combat weapon though (paired with a bolt pistol) so instead of one attack in CC, the sarge will get two. Three if you pay for the veteran upgrade for him.

On the topic of magnets, yes, you can go too far. Different people have different thresholds for what they consider worth it. I, as an example, don’t do footslogging specials, and never heavies. I do magnetize the special weapons on my bikes though. And sometimes will only partially magnetize a model. My sternguard sergeant has his bolter glued on, but his other arm is free for options. For the most part I use 2mm magnets, and they are strong enough for pretty much anything a marine is packing. There are tutorials out there, and I go discuss my experiences in my blog (link in sig) if you want an example of an average guy doing things.

 Nevelon wrote:

MitchellTyner wrote:


haha yeah I hear you. I've always heard that meltabombs were a good idea though.

But since I'm new what kind of bonus does the chainsword bring to the fight?

In my army, melta bombs get handed out at the end of list building to eat up spare points. 4/5s of the time you don’t need them. That last time though, you stand over the smoking pile of slag that used to be a Land Raider, and it makes those 5 points the best you ever spent. Most vehicles have weak back armor, so the krack grenades issued to all marines to a fine job blowing them up in CC. The melta bomb is needed vs. walkers, LRs, and buildings.

The chainsword has no unique mechanics. It’s an additional close combat weapon though (paired with a bolt pistol) so instead of one attack in CC, the sarge will get two. Three if you pay for the veteran upgrade for him.

On the topic of magnets, yes, you can go too far. Different people have different thresholds for what they consider worth it. I, as an example, don’t do footslogging specials, and never heavies. I do magnetize the special weapons on my bikes though. And sometimes will only partially magnetize a model. My sternguard sergeant has his bolter glued on, but his other arm is free for options. For the most part I use 2mm magnets, and they are strong enough for pretty much anything a marine is packing. There are tutorials out there, and I go discuss my experiences in my blog (link in sig) if you want an example of an average guy doing things.

thanks buddy, and this actually answered my other question. Since I'm still building the models I was wondering the arms on the marines that had the grenade on them, I was wondering if that would change the WYSIWYG rule but if they are given to everyone I guess not lol

Also using a simple google search for the previous question about the grenades lol, I came across two interesting links
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186501-a-magnetic-arm-tutorial/

and

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/6th_Edition_Tactics/Space_Marines

put these here for myself as well.

Most people don’t worry about WYSWYG for the extra stock gear. We all know that marines have frag and krack grenades as well as a bolt pistol. You don’t need to stick them on everyone. Things like the plasma gun in the squad should be there though. Use the extra bits to help spice up the squad and add some character to the unit.

Save your points for real toys. Tac Squads are pretty cheap when they run bare bones. Try a flamer and a pistol ccw sarge. Use them to grab objectives and tie stuff up in CC. Let em get charged, soak up fire, sometimes bolters can be okay, especially when penetrating.

I mean yeah, Tacs can come through with that one shot and take out a tank, but they now have an even better chance of glancing something to death with kraks than they do with that one or two shots.

Try running the Tac squads light and put the points elsewhere.

The only viable option for me at least anyways, is the Veteran upgrade, just for the Leadership boost.