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The Militarum Tempestus Scions codex kind of has a "lasweapons matter" theme with the drill chief warlord trait and 'Supression Doctrine Sanctioned!' order.

So I was curious- do the Scions play better if they are equipped with hot-shot lasguns/ hot-shot laspistols? Most people seem to like equipping their Scions with plasma guns, but 15 points per plasma gun/ pistol adds up really fast. Are the points investment in upgrading lasweapons worth it? Or would you be better off investing those points elsewhere (and still use the order which gives lasweapons Pinning and Sniper special rules)?

Also, being able to deep strike helps with the fact that lasweapons have smaller range than their upgrades. Would the properly executed order enable the hot-shot lasweapons to efficiently take out things that usually require plasma guns or melta guns?

I don't know the MT codex, just AM. But I'd go with volley guns or melta guns, depending on what mission you want for them. Both are cheaper than plasma and don't risk melting your own guys.

Hot shot lasguns are good, but you should be taking special weapons. S3 won't win the game.

I would deep strike five man teams, with two volley guns, and provide anti-infantry support. Then drop 8-10 man teams with melta guns and melta bombs for anti vehicle / MC power. Keep the melta teams on the move. Use move through cover, force the enemy to chase you through difficult (or better yet, dangerous) terrain. Remember, move through cover means you auto pass dangerous terrain.

 TheSilo wrote:
I don't know the MT codex, just AM. But I'd go with volley guns or melta guns, depending on what mission you want for them. Both are cheaper than plasma and don't risk melting your own guys.

Hot shot lasguns are good, but you should be taking special weapons. S3 won't win the game.

I would deep strike five man teams, with two volley guns, and provide anti-infantry support. Then drop 8-10 man teams with melta guns and melta bombs for anti vehicle / MC power. Keep the melta teams on the move. Use move through cover, force the enemy to chase you through difficult (or better yet, dangerous) terrain. Remember, move through cover means you auto pass dangerous terrain.

Hey, thanks for the reply!

I'm not sure if we have the same orders in both books (I'm assuming you at least have all of mine).

For fighting against things such as vehicles or MC, would the 'Elimination Protocol Sanctioned!' or 'Suppression Doctrine Sanctioned!' not be good enough with just hot-shot lasguns? Auto wounding a MC on a 4+ through 'Suppression Doctrine Sanctioned!' seems useful.

Or what about something like 'Autonomous Fire Sanctioned!' against infantry?

I understand the usefulness of special weapons, but my codex only has 6 orders total. One of which works better with more hot-shot lasguns. Would it really be better for me to basically neuter this order by running more special weapons?

MT, stick with hot shots generally. AM, special weapons.

Virtus wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
I don't know the MT codex, just AM. But I'd go with volley guns or melta guns, depending on what mission you want for them. Both are cheaper than plasma and don't risk melting your own guys.

Hot shot lasguns are good, but you should be taking special weapons. S3 won't win the game.

I would deep strike five man teams, with two volley guns, and provide anti-infantry support. Then drop 8-10 man teams with melta guns and melta bombs for anti vehicle / MC power. Keep the melta teams on the move. Use move through cover, force the enemy to chase you through difficult (or better yet, dangerous) terrain. Remember, move through cover means you auto pass dangerous terrain.

Hey, thanks for the reply!

I'm not sure if we have the same orders in both books (I'm assuming you at least have all of mine).

For fighting against things such as vehicles or MC, would the 'Elimination Protocol Sanctioned!' or 'Suppression Doctrine Sanctioned!' not be good enough with just hot-shot lasguns? Auto wounding a MC on a 4+ through 'Suppression Doctrine Sanctioned!' seems useful.

Or what about something like 'Autonomous Fire Sanctioned!' against infantry?

I understand the usefulness of special weapons, but my codex only has 6 orders total. One of which works better with more hot-shot lasguns. Would it really be better for me to basically neuter this order by running more special weapons?

Pretty sure MT have their own special Orders that AM don't have...

You are buying tempestus for their deployment options and improved shooting. The lasguns and armor are secondary really.

I would go 5 man with double specials and then command squad with 4 specials if I was going to run them.

What kills the lasguns ability to go after a lot of targets where it maters is the str 3.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
MT, stick with hot shots generally. AM, special weapons.

Pretty much this.

The orders you're referring to don't factor into special weapons anyway, at least not the ones specific to lasguns/hot shot lasguns so that shouldn't effect your decision.

I would go with melta or plasma only on them. MT is the most mobile army in the game, and you get bonuses for deploying out vehicles in formation too.

That said, you won't find your scions standing still to let that 24 inch range come into play on the HSVG. The +1 strength increase isn't worth it anyway - what you can kill with that you can probably just use your HSLG on. You'll need higher strength weapons, plus the orders are a nice benefit (Though realistically don't expect to be within 18" of your command squad too often)

 Frankenberry wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
MT, stick with hot shots generally. AM, special weapons.

Pretty much this.

The orders you're referring to don't factor into special weapons anyway, at least not the ones specific to lasguns/hot shot lasguns so that shouldn't effect your decision.

MT's aren't specific for HSLG, unless I'm reading your post wrong. You can use directed firestorm, autonomous fire, and elimination protocol on all weapons. Only suppression doctrine uses hot-shots and that doesn't even include the volley gun.

Would anybody ever want hot-shot lasguns to have sniper and pinning special rules over twin-linked plasma guns? This is pretty much what the gun choices boil down to for me.

Edit: Note that the points I would save from keeping the lasguns could then be used for more Scions on the ground.

Sniper Hot Shots (9 of them) can seriously maim a Wraith Knight with just one round of shooting (around 2-3 wounds). 7 Sniper Hot Shots and 2 PG are only slightly better with the majority of the damage coming from the hot-shots.

Generally anything higher than T7 with a 3+ or worse save is a job for the Sniper order. However taking Plasma Guns makes that squad more versatile without orders.

Also in my experience with Scions - If you're deep striking prepare for mishaps. Since they lost the reroll to scatter that Stormtroopers got trying to land 2 5-man squads within 12" of a target (or 6" for melta) is just going to result in disappointment.

They may come with Deep Strike but without homing beacons of some kind you're better off putting them in transports.