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OK, I've done a lot of collaborating with someone from this forum who seems to know what he's talking about. (Thanks Zagman, I owe ya!) and I have come up with a much better version of a competitive list for GK at 1500 points. I'd like to know how people think it'll do, and what will be hard to deal with.

Also, I'm struggling to make decisions on the purifiers. Do I keep all 4 incinerators, or drop 2 for storm bolsters and swords, or drop all four? They're going to get objective secured from the grand master and be joined by the inquisitor for quite a nasty little unit....

The idea is for them to start in the raven in reserve. As will mordark since he can non scatter deepstrike on turn one. Ideally the Knight will jump forward and burn, maim and kill. If I get lucky, he will get objective secured as well. And that 30“ Teleport could prove amazing in the dying turns of the game.

Anyways, I have something like 10 warp charge. So I should have no problem activating force weapons and getting hammerhand off.

Let me know what you think.
+ HQ + (440pts)

* Grand Master Mordrak
* Ghost Knights
2x Ghost Knight with Nemesis Daemon Hammer, 2x Ghost Knight with Nemesis Force Halberd


* Inquisitor
* Ordo Xenos Inquisitor
Power Armour, Rad Grenades
* Psyker
Force Sword


+ Elites + (255pts)

* Purifiers
4x Incinerator, Storm Bolter and Nemesis Daemonhammer, 4x Storm Bolter and Nemesis Force Halberd
* Knight of the Flame
Nemesis Force Halberd, Storm Bolter


+ Troops + (320pts)

* Grey Knight Strike Squad
Psycannon, 3x Storm Bolter and Nemesis Force Sword
* Justicar
Nemesis Force Sword, Storm Bolter
* Razorback
Psybolt Ammunition, Twin Linked Heavy Bolters


* Grey Knight Strike Squad (160pts)
Psycannon, 3x Storm Bolter and Nemesis Force Sword
* Justicar
Nemesis Force Sword, Storm Bolter
* Razorback
Psybolt Ammunition, Twin Linked Heavy Bolters


+ Fast Attack + (225pts)

* Stormraven Gunship
Psybolt Ammunition, Twin Linked Assault Cannons, Twin Linked Multi Meltas


+ Heavy Support + (260pts)

* Nemesis Dreadknight
Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Doomfist and Greatsword, Personal Teleporter

No problem Khaine's Wrath, I just tried to help you take the list concept you were going for and put a more effective version of it on the table.

I'm still not a huge fan of having only Mordrak, Ghost Knights, and the Dreadknight in their face. Some armies are going to be able to handle that threat and possibly pick the army apart piecemeal.

I know you don't want to give up the Inquisitor assault unit in the Raven, but if you find opponents are able to handle your initial pressure you may need to drop them for a full Interceptor Squad and save them for the bump to 1850.

Piecemeal is exactly right. With this list you aren't putting pressure on your opponent but rather making a target priority super easy.

Right now you've got 1 DK and 5 terminators in the opponent's face T1, which is only 10 stormbolter shots and 1 heavy incinerator. You won't kill very much in an alpha strike which leaves the whole army to shoot these guys and safely ignore the 5 man strike squads in RBs. Turn two is them mopping up what is left of your initial wave then taking down the razorbacks and strike squads, turn 3 is the purifiers.

Modrak is tough to use because the whole list has to be built around the idea. Modrak plus 2-3 Dreadknights and 2-3 interceptor squads possibly with Dark Angel allies. I'm not sure it can be done in 7th with only 1500 points

Here are a couple of ideas, depending on the situation you'll usually want to combat squad the interceptors

400 Mordrak + 5 terminators
100 Coteaz
180 pts for cheap henchmen squads to hide
280 10 man interceptors w/ 2 Psycannon
280 10 man interceptors w/ 2 Psycannon
260 DK w/incinerators, teleporter, sword


400 Mordrak + 5 terminators
100 Coteaz
200 pts for cheap henchmen squads to hide
140 5 man interceptors w/ Psycannon
140 5 man interceptors w/ Psycannon
260 DK w/incinerators, teleporter, sword
260 DK w/incinerators, teleporter, sword

If you want a Purifier list, you're better off with a Purgation squad toting them since they are cheaper.

A much better list is to just mech up and prepare for a turn 2 strike, 17 warp charge for force weapons and denial, 24 HP, 8 objective secured units.
1500
100 Coteaz
189 5 Purifiers, 2 halberds, 1 hammer, 2 Psycannons in Rhino
189 5 Purifiers, 2 halberds, 1 hammer, 2 Psycannons in Rhino
160 5 Strike Squad, 1 Psycannon in Razorback w/Psybolt
160 5 Strike Squad, 1 Psycannon in Razorback w/Psybolt
106 3 acolytes w/meltaguns, 1 acolyte,1 Psyker in RB w/Psybolt
106 3 acolytes w/meltaguns, 1 acolyte,1 Psyker in RB w/Psybolt
255 Storm Raven w/AC, MM, hurricane bolters, psybolt
100 Purgation with 4 incinerators (in SR)
135 Dreadnought with 2 autocannons, psybolt

OK. I'll explain some things.

I really don't want to take war bands as troops. Personally I hate the models, and don't like the look or feel of them. Secondly the inquisitor I am taking is because I am building my own. A kit bash that I really want to try out. But I will try plying around to see.

GW doesn't really have an acolyte model. The models that are listed as acolytes are actually models from the daemonhunter codex that don't have rules anymore, but don't actually fit in as acolytes since they don't have the right equipment.

You could build them using Scions, which look much better. I personally use warzone bauhaus figures, dirt cheap and look better too:
http://gravengames.co.uk/warzone-bauhaus-imperial-soldiers-review/

You did say competitive, so have a read here
http://www.fritz40k.com/2014/06/tournament-tips-top-guys-dont-want-you.html

Now having go that out of the way, let's reframe this as building the best list using the inquisitor you're making. Inquisitors can be almost anything -- assault based, supportive, Psykers, shooty, bare bones. What other units are you wanting to use?

OK. I've ordered bits for him as well. He is a plastic kit bash. The stats for him are above. Power armour. Psyker. Force weapon. And I normally equip rad grenades. I'll explain why.

My primary opponent is tau. And he irritates me. A lot. He runs o'vesa and at least one other riptide. If not two. The thought of instant deathing them all with a S10 hammer is exciting. Hence the combo of a unit with a hammer, rad grenades and hammerhand.

I'm also pretty keen on some kind of grand master. Because I love the idea of anything with a personal Teleporter being able to objective grab on the final turn with a 30" shunt. This can be in the form of a Dreadknight or interceptors. I like storm ravens, but they're not a must. And acolytes are now at least a little tempting. In a psyback of course.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also like the idea of a shield breaking vindicare. But feel he will die too fast...

Tau is a really tough matchup for your initial list as he'll easy have enough firepower to dismantle you in waves. Tau is a tough matchup for almost anyone as you really need a lot of line of site blocking terrain against them. Almost anything can take interceptor for only 5 points, so deep striking is a non-starter unless there is some way to hide. You don't want to deep strike then get a Str 9 Ap2 pie plate on you with only a 5++ between you and instant death.

You don't have to choose between activating force weapons and hammerhand now. You just have to have sufficient warp charge to activate when you need it and plan ahead. Luckily GK have plenty of WC. Since hammerhand is +2 strength, you can instant death anything with T4 after rad grenades. Falchions are an option for weight of attacks. Hammers are still needed to take on vehicles. Against Tau halbersds are mostly useless because of their low init.

I believe that grand strategy can make a unit troops before they split into combat squads, so taking a 10 man interceptor squad can give you potentially 2 units with objective secured.

195 Grand Master, hammer, rad grenades
78 Xenos Inquisitor, Psyker, power armor, rad grenades
261 9 Purifiers 5 falchions, 4 hammers
161 5 man strike squad, psycannon RB w/psybolt, searchlight
160 5 man strike squad, psycannon RB w/psybolt
160 5 man strike squad, psycannon RB w/psybolt
280 10 man interceptor w/2 psycannons
205 Stormraven

Combat squad the interceptors and hide. HQs and Purifiers load up in the stormraven, pray the rest of the units can hold out until they arrive with double rad goodness. Don't get in range of any broadsides, who will be a higher priority than riptides. Warp quake can't protect you anymore from Ovesa deep striking wherever he wants, so you'll lose one unit instantly.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
OK. I'll explain some things.

I really don't want to take war bands as troops. Personally I hate the models, and don't like the look or feel of them. Secondly the inquisitor I am taking is because I am building my own. A kit bash that I really want to try out. But I will try plying around to see.

For henchmen I use SM scouts and convert them to the flavor of the inquisitor (Mallues to more pure and Xenos more burny). It's pricier but I personally don't mind.

 wormark wrote:
Tau is a really tough matchup for your initial list as he'll easy have enough firepower to dismantle you in waves. Tau is a tough matchup for almost anyone as you really need a lot of line of site blocking terrain against them. Almost anything can take interceptor for only 5 points, so deep striking is a non-starter unless there is some way to hide. You don't want to deep strike then get a Str 9 Ap2 pie plate on you with only a 5++ between you and instant death.

You don't have to choose between activating force weapons and hammerhand now. You just have to have sufficient warp charge to activate when you need it and plan ahead. Luckily GK have plenty of WC. Since hammerhand is +2 strength, you can instant death anything with T4 after rad grenades. Falchions are an option for weight of attacks. Hammers are still needed to take on vehicles. Against Tau halbersds are mostly useless because of their low init.

I believe that grand strategy can make a unit troops before they split into combat squads, so taking a 10 man interceptor squad can give you potentially 2 units with objective secured.

195 Grand Master, hammer, rad grenades
78 Xenos Inquisitor, Psyker, power armor, rad grenades
261 9 Purifiers 5 falchions, 4 hammers
161 5 man strike squad, psycannon RB w/psybolt, searchlight
160 5 man strike squad, psycannon RB w/psybolt
160 5 man strike squad, psycannon RB w/psybolt
280 10 man interceptor w/2 psycannons
205 Stormraven

Combat squad the interceptors and hide. HQs and Purifiers load up in the stormraven, pray the rest of the units can hold out until they arrive with double rad goodness. Don't get in range of any broadsides, who will be a higher priority than riptides. Warp quake can't protect you anymore from Ovesa deep striking wherever he wants, so you'll lose one unit instantly.

I like the principle of this list, but I'm going to attempt to change it slightly...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although I am hugely concerned at the amount of points in reserve....

I'm not entirely happy with it either. At 1500, GK are so expensive without using henchmen for cheap troops.I have using anything but 5 or 10 for marines, but that's the only way to get them all in the stormraven. Otherwise, the HQs don't have anywhere else to go.

Well I like the fact that you can model your own acolytes. So I might use those.

Putting anything in a raven is risky, even now vehicle are tougher, taking str 10 hits on stuff if it crashes means almost everything inside will die.

I am contemplating not taking a raven at all, but it's the only way of getting the inquisitor into combat. But I have a cunning plan...

They're still solid gunships for ground and anti air and anti armor. Especially the GK ones. Probably the best Stormraven type at the moment.

I know. But that's still 205 points in reserve. I do love them. Perhaps I'll add one in at bigger point games. But to fully utilise it here for the inquisitor it risks leaving far too much in reserve. One bad red reserve rill and I could be tabled before they arrive. I need to hit him with multiple units at once like you said.

The only thing I ever put in my storm raven anymore is a cheap 100 pt Purgation inceinerator squad or cheap henchmen.

The only other assault vehicle is a land raider, which is an even bigger point sink, but a crusader can hold 16 models and is worth considering so that you can take a full 10 man squad or 7 terminators plus the inqusitor.

I'm really not sure how to get the inquisitor into assault otherwise. You could just use the Grand master with grenades as the assault spearhead, then use the inquisitor as a supporting piece.

I'm interested in your cunning plan.

The cunning plan failed at the first hurdle. I completely forgot henchmen are only troops if coteaz is in the list. So I'm back to square one in a mad attempt to get this list to work. Off to the drawing board. Unless you have any other suggestions?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, here's an idea:

HQ: grand master, Damon hammer, brain mines.
HQ: Xenos Inquisitor, rad grenades, power armour, psyker

Troops: 5x Terminators 1x hammer, 2x halberd, 2x sword. Psybolt ammo
Troops: 5x Strike Squad. 1x halberd, 1x Psycannon, 3x sword + Razorback with Psybolt.

Fast attack: 10x interceptors, 2x halberd, 2x hammers, 2x Psycannon, 4x swords, Psybolt ammo

Heavy: Dreadknight, sword, Incinerator, teleporter.

Heavy: Land raider crusader, Psybolt ammo.

The idea is that the Terminators can ride in the raider with the master and the inquisitor. Or the interceptors could combat squad down and ride with the inquisitor whilst the termites deep strike. Whichever is tactically better at the time. The grand master can give objective secured to either the interceptors, Dreadknight, or land raider. Or all 3 if I'm lucky. My anti air is weak. Relying on snap shooting Psycannons or assault cannon. I could drop Psybolt on the interceptors and Terminators to give my razorback an assault cannon. But that's my basic idea. Thoughts?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
The cunning plan failed at the first hurdle. I completely forgot henchmen are only troops if coteaz is in the list. So I'm back to square one in a mad attempt to get this list to work. Off to the drawing board. Unless you have any other suggestions?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, here's an idea:

HQ: grand master, Damon hammer, brain mines.
HQ: Xenos Inquisitor, rad grenades, power armour, psyker

Troops: 5x Terminators 1x hammer, 2x halberd, 2x sword. Psybolt ammo
Troops: 5x Strike Squad. 1x halberd, 1x Psycannon, 3x sword + Razorback with Psybolt.

Fast attack: 10x interceptors, 2x halberd, 2x hammers, 2x Psycannon, 4x swords, Psybolt ammo

Heavy: Dreadknight, sword, Incinerator, teleporter.

Heavy: Land raider crusader, Psybolt ammo.

The idea is that the Terminators can ride in the raider with the master and the inquisitor. Or the interceptors could combat squad down and ride with the inquisitor whilst the termites deep strike. Whichever is tactically better at the time. The grand master can give objective secured to either the interceptors, Dreadknight, or land raider. Or all 3 if I'm lucky. My anti air is weak. Relying on snap shooting Psycannons or assault cannon. I could drop Psybolt on the interceptors and Terminators to give my razorback an assault cannon. But that's my basic idea. Thoughts?

Looks like a fun list with a lot of different options, but i don't think it will be very competitive.

Very few objective secured units, units generally, and lack a little focus. A lot of really expensive units.

As has been said GK are very expensive pointwise. I think it will be hard to make a good 1500 list without henchmen or MSU.

Well the grand masters grand strategy should some the problem of scoring units. On a D6 roll of a 5 or higher every unit in the army will score with objective secured.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Well the grand masters grand strategy should some the problem of scoring units. On a D6 roll of a 5 or higher every unit in the army will score with objective secured.

Grand strategy is good. But you can only use it on knight and interceptors (which can comeback squad).
Not on land raider.

I'm comparing more to other list of 1500. Lot of armies will have 8-12 objective secured units (4-6) units in dedicated transports. You have 5 the most. Maybe only 3-4.

It's possible without that many, but then you need some hard hitting units to level the field.

And some of the units are easy to kill, like 5 interceptors.

OK. I do see your point. But it's difficult to make a GK list much more competitive...

You need Coteaz in a competitive list. Remember that you can just add your kit bashed inquisitor as an Inquisitorial detachment without having to take anything else.

I know, I just can't really fit him in....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, I perhaps have a slightly better list....

Let me know what you think?

HQ: Grey Knight Grand Master, hammer, brain mines, Incinerator.
HQ: Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, power armour, psyker, rad grenades
Elites: 5x Purifiers, Halberd, hammer
Troops: 5x Strikes, Psycannon, psyback
Troops: 5x Strikes, Psycannon, payback
Heavy: Land raider cruisader, Psybolt Ammunition (INQ, GM and purifiers go here)
Heavy: Dreadknight, Incinerator, sword, teleporter
Heavy: Dreadknight, Incinerator, sword, teleporter

Exactly 1500 points. A lot more mobile. Nothing is held in reserve. Slightly more firepower, slightly less squish able on the table top. Hopefully can roll high on grand strategy the targets will be the dreadknights and then the purifiers for unyielding anvil.

That looks like a solid list.

Looking at the list, how set are you on the purifiers? you could trade the purifiers and LRC for an interceptor squad, splitting the inquisitor and GM into the psybacks?

I'm not entirely set, but this is my reasoning,

The inquisitor and GM are set up for combat. And I think purifiers are the best combat unit. The LRC offers some decent anti infantry firepower that I'm lacking a little, and is an assault vehicle for the purifiers with the GM and INQ. Not to mention the GM can't get in the payback due to having terminator armour. I'm also quite excited to get out, use cleansing flame, then fire storm bolters, then charge in....

Ok. The only reason I suggested interceptors was that you were playing Tau. I'm just not convinced the LRC will make it close enough is all. If your opponent takes haywire on a suit or rail guns, it could be a sad day

Good luck!

Yeah I know what you mean. I am trying to build a list that could take on multiple armies though... It's would just be all the more sweet if I could beat my friends battlesuit spam. Going to attempt to hit both riptides with the Knights as fast as possible, and use the LRC to smash into broadsides, and then go from there....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Perhaps a redeemer is a better option with psyflame?

Not sure, I sort of feel that the extra range on the HB gives you more options, if at the cost of close quarter effectiveness. However, a redeemer smashing into tau lines, flaming everything then the purifiers piling out is a very, very pleasing mental image!!

Haha, it is indeed. It is the range vs effectiveness trade off...

I'd just like to put in a plug for the Stormraven. Yes, it's expensive. And yes, it sometimes doesn't show up until turn four. And yes, sometimes it gets shot down and everything inside it dies.

But - don't put your expensive space marines inside it. Anything purifiers can do, Death Cult Assassins can do better. I find about 7 of them is the sweet spot, and I give them the Xenos Inquisitor with both rad and psychotroke grenades. Trust me, hilarity ensues.

You get pretty much the same hitting power of purifiers for only half the cost. If you're still considering the storm raven, DCA make it a little more economical.

EDIT: Honestly, the Xenos Inquisitor isn't even necessary. He's just necessary for when you want to positively butcher 20 man strong squads of Crusader Black Templar or something, and how often do you see those? Against any normal infantry in reasonable numbers, the DCA will get the job done by themselves.