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 Ignatius wrote:
@StarTrotter: And fine debating with you sir! I'm starting to see perhaps where we differed initially- I like to play around at a couple different stores, so making due has sort of been put into my war gaming blood I never had the luxury of changing rules, so I can see where your opinion comes from.

@Quarterdime: we are in the same boat, as I said earlier I don't know much besides Khorne and I apologize for that. But I've been trying to stick to general concepts rather than specific examples like sonic weapons. But surely a death guard warp smith has the know how to create a forge fiend yes? They had to come from somewhere.

Just so I can get a better understanding, you are more upset about models and looks than you are about anything else in the codex correct? Or am I just making a fool of myself?

It comes more from a fluff standpoint for Nurgle. Now I'll say one thing, Nurgle is not my god. I, as a good little Tzeentchian member have a particular aversion to playing nurgle . That said, Death Guard are well known for being extremely minimal on vehicles. You could theoretically make a tank heavy army but it's always been in concept oriented towards being footslogging slow but tanky units that just nurgle through shots until they get close enough to blast you apart.


That aside, I think that's likely one of the key differences. I myself play only with a group of friends in all honesty which means that I get the lucky capability of tinkering with rules and so on. Tyranids lose their myeotic spore that gave them a unique way to deploy? Hmmm suddenly it still is in the codex *whistles as we cautiously retreat* We are also rather prone to narrative and themed games so that's another part of it not to mention two of us writing our own fluff entirely with others having a short story for the general premise of their forces. Still, it seems we both agree at the end it would be splendid to see the return of legions (and Red Corsairs) as well as the rise of doctrines and the sorts. Their inceptions might have not been perfect but they were great ideas that should have been tweaked and developed rather than being torn out. I guess we can cross our fingers for some supplements that make some serious differences or the next codex

Of course by then we might just be rolling on random tables for everything

 Ignatius wrote:
@StarTrotter: And fine debating with you sir! I'm starting to see perhaps where we differed initially- I like to play around at a couple different stores, so making due has sort of been put into my war gaming blood I never had the luxury of changing rules, so I can see where your opinion comes from.

@Quarterdime: we are in the same boat, as I said earlier I don't know much besides Khorne and I apologize for that. But I've been trying to stick to general concepts rather than specific examples like sonic weapons. But surely a death guard warp smith has the know how to create a forge fiend yes? They had to come from somewhere.

Just so I can get a better understanding, you are more upset about models and looks than you are about anything else in the codex correct? Or am I just making a fool of myself?

That's just the thing, the Death Guard probably have extremely few techpriests, let alone warpsmiths. They don't have many vehicles, and it's most likely any techs they do have are used to maintain the essentials, like basic transportation and space travel. That's part of their identity. Just like how Emperor's Children as a legion is shattered into fragments. I'm not sure how big or small these fragments are, or what they're capable of and known to do. Thanks to Fabulous Bill they're all mutants that use sonic weaponry. I know that much. Until someone with knowledge about them helps me out as to their specific identity I guess I'll be reading their Lexicanum page.

 aka_mythos wrote:
The 3.5 codex was unfair for offering too many different options, to the point where the challenges of list building were too alleviated by it being so easy to scale point costs and effectiveness which always gave a high degree of point efficiency. Consider how many rules altering options existed for the basic chaos marine squad before weapon options... Legion, veterans, marks... Isn't that over 200 combination of special rules?

Oh don't get me wrong, there's a reason I called the 3.5 codex both the best and worst CSM codex yet . It had the most life with so many different choices, mutations that were fascinating, legion tactics, warband themes. There was so much to it, so many choices, so much customization.... That said, it was an internal nightmare that was terribly imbalanced both internally and externally with some really really bad options and some crazy this is OTT broken builds. Not quite the level of things in this edition but pretty close for their time. It's really the sad catch of CSM though. Simply put, it's going to be cluttered if you try to represent things. It's legions that are some outlandish and radically different forces (KSons really are different than CSM and so on), a hint of Lost and the Damned with Cultists, and the renegades that are more recently fallen to chaos. Add to that, 3.5 had chaos daemons which was both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, it felt more fitting for the force and allowed for additional synergy. On the other hand, it made things more cluttered again.

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
@StarTrotter: And fine debating with you sir! I'm starting to see perhaps where we differed initially- I like to play around at a couple different stores, so making due has sort of been put into my war gaming blood I never had the luxury of changing rules, so I can see where your opinion comes from.

@Quarterdime: we are in the same boat, as I said earlier I don't know much besides Khorne and I apologize for that. But I've been trying to stick to general concepts rather than specific examples like sonic weapons. But surely a death guard warp smith has the know how to create a forge fiend yes? They had to come from somewhere.

Just so I can get a better understanding, you are more upset about models and looks than you are about anything else in the codex correct? Or am I just making a fool of myself?

That's just the thing, the Death Guard probably have extremely few techpriests, let alone warpsmiths. They don't have many vehicles, and it's most likely any techs they do have are used to maintain the essentials, like basic transportation and space travel. That's part of their identity. Just like how Emperor's Children as a legion is shattered into fragments. I'm not sure how big or small these fragments are, or what they're capable of and known to do. Thanks to Fabulous Bill they're all mutants that use sonic weaponry. I know that much. Until someone with knowledge about them helps me out as to their specific identity I guess I'll be reading their Lexicanum page.

Again, trying to stick to generalizations, I just gave the nurgle mauler fiend thing as an example. If your nurgle (not speaking directly at you mind) interpretation is that they don't have many vehicles, just don't bring them. Perfect. Just like Khorne can't use psykers, don't have your nurgle army use vehicles. Just because one is rule based and the other is fluff based, does it make either of them less true? Or less necessary to be followed? I'd argue no.

But I'm serious when I ask if you're more concerned about the rules side, the fluff side, or the model side in regards to the homogenization? Because that would let me construct an argument that will actually help carry the thread onwards.

 Ignatius wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
@StarTrotter: And fine debating with you sir! I'm starting to see perhaps where we differed initially- I like to play around at a couple different stores, so making due has sort of been put into my war gaming blood I never had the luxury of changing rules, so I can see where your opinion comes from.

@Quarterdime: we are in the same boat, as I said earlier I don't know much besides Khorne and I apologize for that. But I've been trying to stick to general concepts rather than specific examples like sonic weapons. But surely a death guard warp smith has the know how to create a forge fiend yes? They had to come from somewhere.

Just so I can get a better understanding, you are more upset about models and looks than you are about anything else in the codex correct? Or am I just making a fool of myself?

That's just the thing, the Death Guard probably have extremely few techpriests, let alone warpsmiths. They don't have many vehicles, and it's most likely any techs they do have are used to maintain the essentials, like basic transportation and space travel. That's part of their identity. Just like how Emperor's Children as a legion is shattered into fragments. I'm not sure how big or small these fragments are, or what they're capable of and known to do. Thanks to Fabulous Bill they're all mutants that use sonic weaponry. I know that much. Until someone with knowledge about them helps me out as to their specific identity I guess I'll be reading their Lexicanum page.

Again, trying to stick to generalizations, I just gave the nurgle mauler fiend thing as an example. If your nurgle (not speaking directly at you mind) interpretation is that they don't have many vehicles, just don't bring them. Perfect. Just like Khorne can't use psykers, don't have your nurgle army use vehicles. Just because one is rule based and the other is fluff based, does it make either of them less true? Or less necessary to be followed? I'd argue no.

But I'm serious when I ask if you're more concerned about the rules side, the fluff side, or the model side in regards to the homogenization? Because that would let me construct an argument that will actually help carry the thread onwards.

I'm concerned about the models, actually. Fluff comes second. There's no god-themed units beyond the cult troops and nurgle daemon prince. Instead of creating 4 distinct, god-themed units, they release 4 generic units that you can paint differently.

I think there is something to the idea that chaos is homogenizing. I think this stems from how the fundamental flavor of the army is allowed to vary... We select our lords affiliation and that dictates a troop choice and that's really it. SM atleast get chapter wide special rules that further effect how particular units are used. Typhos' plague zombies are the closest thing. At the same time the big 4 that can be troops while they play different are by GWs attempt to be relatively equal... The fact that they're already available to the army regardless of that choice creates this situation where the only thing that varies our army is something that can appear in any version of our army without that thematic commitment.

I think it'd have worked far better if not only did we end up with the troop option but if it also imparted rules on some other unit making them elites... Or where the version of the unit taken as a troop got some other bonus.

 Ignatius wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
@StarTrotter: And fine debating with you sir! I'm starting to see perhaps where we differed initially- I like to play around at a couple different stores, so making due has sort of been put into my war gaming blood I never had the luxury of changing rules, so I can see where your opinion comes from.

@Quarterdime: we are in the same boat, as I said earlier I don't know much besides Khorne and I apologize for that. But I've been trying to stick to general concepts rather than specific examples like sonic weapons. But surely a death guard warp smith has the know how to create a forge fiend yes? They had to come from somewhere.

Just so I can get a better understanding, you are more upset about models and looks than you are about anything else in the codex correct? Or am I just making a fool of myself?

That's just the thing, the Death Guard probably have extremely few techpriests, let alone warpsmiths. They don't have many vehicles, and it's most likely any techs they do have are used to maintain the essentials, like basic transportation and space travel. That's part of their identity. Just like how Emperor's Children as a legion is shattered into fragments. I'm not sure how big or small these fragments are, or what they're capable of and known to do. Thanks to Fabulous Bill they're all mutants that use sonic weaponry. I know that much. Until someone with knowledge about them helps me out as to their specific identity I guess I'll be reading their Lexicanum page.

Again, trying to stick to generalizations, I just gave the nurgle mauler fiend thing as an example. If your nurgle (not speaking directly at you mind) interpretation is that they don't have many vehicles, just don't bring them. Perfect. Just like Khorne can't use psykers, don't have your nurgle army use vehicles. Just because one is rule based and the other is fluff based, does it make either of them less true? Or less necessary to be followed? I'd argue no.

But I'm serious when I ask if you're more concerned about the rules side, the fluff side, or the model side in regards to the homogenization? Because that would let me construct an argument that will actually help carry the thread onwards.

Rules, and fluff for myself. Here's what I posted before on why I don't think the current CSM codex represents Emperor's Children. Many of these were options back in 3.5, with a few being wishlisted.

Can I take Combat Drugs to increase the Effectiveness of my Drug Addled Warriors?

Can I take A Chaos Sorcerer Lord kitted to the teeth in Slaaneshi Artifacts and blessed with Slaanesh's gifts?

Will my possessed be able to take rending talons and be blessed with super-natural speed or flight without acting as if they were possessed by every single daemon at once. They are possessed by Daemonettes, not plaguebearers.

Will my elite chosen be blessed with gifts of slaanesh? Or maybe perhaps be gifted warriors skilled in weapon and blade? Or maybe even riding upon steeds of Slaanesh as having proven themselves worthy of riding with the Chaos Lord

Can my Helbrute's be equipped with Blastmasters? Or perhaps their screams can be amplified by Doom Sirens?

Will my Vehicles be upgraded with Sonic Weaponry? Or maybe perhaps equipped in a manner that will allow those who desire to take themselves in the melee to charge out on an assault ramp?

I'd like to pose this... We're stuck with this codex for the foreseeable future... I think GW has avenues to fix this in the form of dataslates, supplements, and FW unit additions. Would you guy accept such "fixes"... Is having a formation like dataslate that takes away some flexibility but provides thematic rewards enough, even if only to meet the bare minimum of expectations?

 aka_mythos wrote:
I'd like to pose this... We're stuck with this codex for the foreseeable future... I think GW has avenues to fix this in the form of dataslates, supplements, and FW unit additions. Would you guy accept such "fixes"... Is having a formation like dataslate that takes away some flexibility but provides thematic rewards enough, even if only to meet the bare minimum of expectations?

In the same sense that a $15 resin conversion kit for a few plastic chaos space marine models is enough.

The current Chaos Space Marine codex is certainly a step up from the abysmal 5th edition codex, but is still not as good as 3.5. Whilst I do like the look of the new models, I still cannot help but feel that the Chaos Marine range is still lacking; I was really hoping that GW would release multi-part cult troops, similar to what they did to C:SM sternguard/vanguard set, I would love multi-part plastic plague marines. They also need to change the look of the basic Chaos Marines so they are more in line with the Chosen from the Dark Vengeance set.

What ever happened to all of the Pre-Heresy gear that the traitors had? Didn't Horus re-direct a lot of the state of the art weaponry and armour to the traitor legions? I'm guessing they left all of that and the legion specific units behind when they fled into the eye of terror.

They need a new kit for 1KSons...and new rules.

GW's model support for CSM has always been abysmal... Even the basic chaos marines were admittedly spike and arrows sculpted atop the SM tactical squad pieces and it took how many tries to get decent enough possessed. The best model support GWs given chaos marines is the starter box. Make every chaos marine to that quality and the only complaints would be the the lack of flavor in the rules.

I tend to think the next time around we'll see the big 4 cults get redone, just because they were largely hybrid kits of the type that are getting phased out. If and when that happens it'll probably make mono-god players happy as GW will make their hard push to sell new kits.

 MWHistorian wrote:
They need a new kit for 1KSons...and new rules.

Indeed, I hope that they at least get a new kit some time soon.

I'm a pretty good modder, so the distinctness of the models isn't really a problem I have to overcome, I was just hoping for a bit of diversity for the legions rules...

I play EC, and the fluff said the 3rd legion was trained and had access to every vehicle and weapon in the SM inventories, 7th lets me take the vehicles, but I still can't use them...and it would be nice to be able to play my EC helbrutes with their noise weapons...

Then what does GW do? They release a CSM book based on the black legion, which the main codex is already based on...?!?

Ugh


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They easily could have done:

Alpha Legion: (limitless: treat cultists as an endless swarm)
Word Bearers: (all-out: may add +3" to charge distance, but must take dangerous terrain checks for each model)
Tsons: (soul harvest: add 1 die to your psycher pool next turn for each model in power armor or terminator armor that dies)
Etc

 Hedgehog wrote:

Kyutaru wrote:
Or we can just have a single codex. We had a single codex in 3.5 edition that included the legions, the gods, the daemons, and it was still only half the size of the current one. With more customization and abilities too.

This. Every CSM player has been hoping for each subsequent CSM codex since 3.5 to live up to it - and has been disappointed every time.

And then when you guys had 3.5 it sucked and you wanted something better!

Rose-tinted glasses.

 Melissia wrote:

 Hedgehog wrote:

Kyutaru wrote:
Or we can just have a single codex. We had a single codex in 3.5 edition that included the legions, the gods, the daemons, and it was still only half the size of the current one. With more customization and abilities too.

This. Every CSM player has been hoping for each subsequent CSM codex since 3.5 to live up to it - and has been disappointed every time.

And then when you guys had 3.5 it sucked and you wanted something better!

Rose-tinted glasses.

No. 3.5 wasn't the be all end all but no one I knew or anyone on any forum I've seen complained about 3.5.

 Veteran of The Long War wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Hedgehog wrote:

Kyutaru wrote:
Or we can just have a single codex. We had a single codex in 3.5 edition that included the legions, the gods, the daemons, and it was still only half the size of the current one. With more customization and abilities too.

This. Every CSM player has been hoping for each subsequent CSM codex since 3.5 to live up to it - and has been disappointed every time.

And then when you guys had 3.5 it sucked and you wanted something better!

Rose-tinted glasses.

No. 3.5 wasn't the be all end all but no one I knew or anyone on any forum I've seen complained about 3.5.

If they did, it was about Iron Warriors' balance, Not at all what we're talking about here Melissia. We're talking about the fluff and flavor of the dex, how it captured the feel and style of playing a Chaos Marine army that rebelled with Horus against their brothers and have sense fallen into degradation. (As opposed to a generic "warband" with dino bots.)

Agreed. The only complaints I remember from them was about the minis not the book or rules... In particular... They still haven't redone Abbadon.

 aka_mythos wrote:
Agreed. The only complaints I remember from them was about the minis not the book or rules... In particular... They still haven't redone Abbadon.

These were my favorites. You have a very well done figure of Fabius......but then look at his "super marine bodyguard guys."
They're just awful. It's like they're not even from the same game system.

I am genuinely curious as to why people have these wierd beliefs that certain legions don't have certain things in them. Or that the marks and icons somehow suddenly don't make an army the world eaters?

Why do you all of a sudden think death guard have very few vehicles?

To me it is sounding like some of you have this pre concieved notion of what a specific legion is like and because the normal Chaos Space Marine codex doesn't fit your own personal vision of what you think the legions are like, that somehow the CSM codex isn't good enough.

Seriously folks?

Those saying the death guard have very few vehicles, how do you know? Do you even realize that over the years, nurgle infested space marine tanks were some of the most iconic death guard models in the game? The most famous one is a second edition predator that looks like it has a greater daemon of nurgle possessing it. If i remember correctly it even won a golden daemon painting competition.

The regular CSM codex has more than enough stuff in it to make any legion you want to make. But I'm sorry that you can't take a World Eaters Terminator Captain that would be like Kharn on primarch level combat drugs simply because you think thats the way the captain of the World eaters would be so its fluffy, or that every single model in your Emperors Children have blastmasters

But you CAN make any legion you want to. Just not necessarily the exact way you personally think they should be. But hey, Eldar can't either..nor can anyone else.

The regular CSM codex has more than enough stuff in it to make any legion you want to make. But I'm sorry that you can't take a World Eaters Terminator Captain that would be like Kharn on primarch level combat drugs simply because you think thats the way the captain of the World eaters would be so its fluffy, or that every single model in your Emperors Children have blastmasters

But you CAN make any legion you want to. Just not necessarily the exact way you personally think they should be. But hey, Eldar can't either..nor can anyone else.

Just painting an army the colors doesn't make it that army, SM gets all their flavors and can eat it too.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

The regular CSM codex has more than enough stuff in it to make any legion you want to make. But I'm sorry that you can't take a World Eaters Terminator Captain that would be like Kharn on primarch level combat drugs simply because you think thats the way the captain of the World eaters would be so its fluffy, or that every single model in your Emperors Children have blastmasters

But you CAN make any legion you want to. Just not necessarily the exact way you personally think they should be. But hey, Eldar can't either..nor can anyone else.

Just painting an army the colors doesn't make it that army, SM gets all their flavors and can eat it too.

You are right, but I never said that it did. What I did say was that many CSM players have a pre concieved notion of what the legions are like and for many reasons they don't think that the CSM book fits their notion. But some peoples notions are wrong. And some people have no idea what the legions were like. And some of the things that have been listed or complained about when it comes to CSM's as presented in the current book are
actually very legion fluffy. "Dino bots"for instance. There was a time when legions of khorne wouldn't be caught dead going to war withoutat least three daemon engines to back them up. Now, they are in the codex. Thats fluffy. But listening to some of the people on here complain about them and how unfluffy they are just gets irritating after a while.

The problem isn't the codex, the problem is people not really having a clue as to what the legions were really like, so they come up with stuff in their own head that the book can't possibly replicate. Because if it tried to replicate one legion, it wouldn't be very good at replicating the others due to way too many options.

I don't think the Night Lords use possessed or cult troops. That makes sense to me. This issue has been discussed before, and I've gone up against the wall with people who say "Nothing's stopping them!" So what? That's who they are. They don't worship or trust chaos. So you want to play the special snowflake Night Lords that use daemonic units. I think the truth of the matter is that nothing's stopping you, either. And that's what it's all about. In 40k you can have anything do anything no matter how dull and uninspired it makes you. That's your prerogative. But I'm the kind of guy who actually wants to imitate an identity as opposed to violate it. Just understand that these identities exist for a reason.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

The regular CSM codex has more than enough stuff in it to make any legion you want to make. But I'm sorry that you can't take a World Eaters Terminator Captain that would be like Kharn on primarch level combat drugs simply because you think thats the way the captain of the World eaters would be so its fluffy, or that every single model in your Emperors Children have blastmasters

But you CAN make any legion you want to. Just not necessarily the exact way you personally think they should be. But hey, Eldar can't either..nor can anyone else.

Just painting an army the colors doesn't make it that army, SM gets all their flavors and can eat it too.

You are right, but I never said that it did. What I did say was that many CSM players have a pre concieved notion of what the legions are like and for many reasons they don't think that the CSM book fits their notion. But some peoples notions are wrong. And some people have no idea what the legions were like. And some of the things that have been listed or complained about when it comes to CSM's as presented in the current book are
actually very legion fluffy. "Dino bots"for instance. There was a time when legions of khorne wouldn't be caught dead going to war withoutat least three daemon engines to back them up. Now, they are in the codex. Thats fluffy. But listening to some of the people on here complain about them and how unfluffy they are just gets irritating after a while.

The problem isn't the codex, the problem is people not really having a clue as to what the legions were really like, so they come up with stuff in their own head that the book can't possibly replicate. Because if it tried to replicate one legion, it wouldn't be very good at replicating the others due to way too many options.

I did post about my Emperor's children, if you'd like to take a look and refute it. I know of the other legions but I know mostly of what I play.

Also the Dinobots are daemon engines, it's just they don't look really that good, and even silly by older daemon engine standards back around epic and the like.

While I don't think the daemon engines are perfect, I think they were a move in the right direction. When you do daemon engines in the old style you get the Khorne law mower superheavy we have. The newest daemon engines are daemon engines in the vein of the Khorne Juggernaut and even though they are lacking in some ways they add to the army a much needed visual distinction that distinguishes them from a distance.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
Agreed. The only complaints I remember from them was about the minis not the book or rules... In particular... They still haven't redone Abbadon.

These were my favorites. You have a very well done figure of Fabius......but then look at his "super marine bodyguard guys."
They're just awful. It's like they're not even from the same game system.

Hey, I play a Fabius army and have a squad of 10... It's on my todo list to make it a full squad. Maybe I'm weird but I miss the Doom Rider.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

The regular CSM codex has more than enough stuff in it to make any legion you want to make. But I'm sorry that you can't take a World Eaters Terminator Captain that would be like Kharn on primarch level combat drugs simply because you think thats the way the captain of the World eaters would be so its fluffy, or that every single model in your Emperors Children have blastmasters

But you CAN make any legion you want to. Just not necessarily the exact way you personally think they should be. But hey, Eldar can't either..nor can anyone else.

Just painting an army the colors doesn't make it that army, SM gets all their flavors and can eat it too.

You are right, but I never said that it did. What I did say was that many CSM players have a pre concieved notion of what the legions are like and for many reasons they don't think that the CSM book fits their notion. But some peoples notions are wrong. And some people have no idea what the legions were like. And some of the things that have been listed or complained about when it comes to CSM's as presented in the current book are
actually very legion fluffy. "Dino bots"for instanc
e. There was a time when legions of khorne wouldn't be caught dead going to war withoutat least three daemon engines to back them up. Now, they are in the codex. Thats fluffy. But listening to some of the people on here complain about them and how unfluffy they are just gets irritating after a while.

The problem isn't the codex, the problem is people not really having a clue as to what the legions were really like, so they come up with stuff in their own head that the book can't possibly replicate. Because if it tried to replicate one legion, it wouldn't be very good at replicating the others due to way too many options.

I did post about my Emperor's children, if you'd like to take a look and refute it. I know of the other legions but I know mostly of what I play.

Also the Dinobots are daemon engines, it's just they don't look really that good, and even silly by older daemon engine standards back around epic and the like.

So before i begin, let me ask you, do you believe your squads should be as you have listed them due to being fluffy? Or is it more based on power of the army. At first glance it seems a power thing to me but maybe you have some fluff somewhere to back these sort of things up that I don't know of?

I'm just going to say I'd just like to take things that feel fluffy. Thousand Sons and Ahriman aren't Thousand Sons. Some way to make some nameless character it, ways to take terminators as rubricate, some way to have chosen as a squad of sorcerers. To kit out my forces with rewards of Tzeentch, to roll on divination for the army that belongs to Tzeentch. We are the legion of ghosts led by the damned. Prospero is burned, the Planet of Sorcerers is what little we have of home. All that we have is dust. From Knowledge is Power we reached for the flame and it burnt us. Forever are we scarred yet we grew stronger for it, mastering the ways of the flame and wielding it. We search for archane knowledge, to grow stronger, to fix errors, to learn.

So before i begin, let me ask you, do you believe your squads should be as you have listed them due to being fluffy? Or is it more based on power of the army. At first glance it seems a power thing to me but maybe you have some fluff somewhere to back these sort of things up that I don't know of?

Power? I suppose I do enjoy a bit of power and would honestly prefer something that isn't below par, In all honesty having a bit of balance is far better then most things, but we don't have power or fluff behind much things so yeah... (Poor Tsons, I would never say Slaanesh gets less then them)

But I believe in fluff, unique wargear, differentiated armies even within the same codex. I want unique fluffy options for everyone! But as I don't play everyone I generally concentrate on the fluff I know and love.

As for my list and the fluff options I presented before

Emperor's Children do alot of drugs, pleasure drugs, booster drugs, drugs made from ground up people, much of which screws with their bodies but much of it enhances them in horrific ways, having a random 'combat drugs' table would be fine as a buyable option.

Slaaneshi Gifts and Mutations are fluff based things, chaos is random but it oddly enough isn't THAT random as the current mutation table, but really the lack of Optional daemon weapons outside of Khorne is shocking, and both Nurgle and Slaanesh didn't gain any unique artifacts of their own, this should be a common thing to ALL chaos, and Chaos Lords aren't Captains of Chaos, they can and will be psykers, sometimes naturally, and sometimes by gifts from their god. Sorcerers are not always second fiddle, but often are just as martially skilled as many Chaos Lords (Thus the Chaos SORCERER Lords)

Possessed having mutations they can buy instead of random rolling should be the NORM, if I want them to have wings they should have flight, if I give them claws they should have rending, or heck if thats too much maybe when you mark them they become Daemons of X and gain specific bonuses rather then a normal mark, they are people who have managed to take a Daemons and remain in control of themselves.

Chosen should gain something, as it is they are just somewhat sub-par elites (much like DA's veterans, who also need some uniqueness), they don't represent much in the way of anything, being able to have your Chaos Lord in a unit with mounts would be cool and fluffy, having chosen blessed with Gifts of Slaanesh would be fluffy and cool, Chosen are supposed to be the Elite Guard, the one's that used to be Chaos Lord Retinue's much like honor guard, as it is they are just subpar shooting units for most armies, being able to change them into elite blade units (Representing the Slaaneshi perfectionists who take their skills in melee far beyond any normal 'Plebeian' and would try to challenge instead of their chaos lord would be common.)

Helbrutes and Vehicles equipped with 'marks' and weapons of the Emperor's children, doesn't need much explanation beyond that, same for any elite unit, also assault ramps would be nice considering many Emperor's Children Bands usually raid rather then destroy, usually to gain more slaves for their various 'Pleasures'

Rubic/plague/berserker Terminators?
Noise marine dreadnaughts?
Options for vehicles?

Ok, so Combat drugs are one of the things that the Emperors Children were introduced to at first and for a while that sufficed but ten thousand years after the heresy they really arent affected by them as much as they used to be. That is why they keep going to extremes for the thrills of it. Combat Drugs are also stepping on Dark Eldar toes as that is one of their very big things. It is doubtful gw will ever do this.

Can you kit a Chaos Lord to the teeth with slaaneshi artifacts and blessed with slaaneshi gifts? Absolutely. If you look through the CSM codex for the Chaos Artifacts it becomes clear that there are four different weapons that are for the four different chaos gods. The axe of blind fury is obviously Khorne, the black mace replicates the old nurgles rot in a way. It is definitely nurgle. Then the burning brand of skalathrax is painfully obvious that it is tzeentch, despite some claiming khorne. Now, when you look at Slaanesh, his birth was all about murder. When the Eldar started excessively murdering their own kind, slaaneshes birth was hastened. The murder sword is most definitely slaanesh fluffy


So your Chaos Lord can be equipped with the murder sword.

Now, the Chaos Boon table replicates in many ways the old Epic chaos gifts cards from epic space marine. A time when gifts were not chaos god specific for the most part. If you buy your lord a gift of mutation, it gives him a roll on the chaos boon table, just like the chaos lords got in epic. Just because those arent specifically tailored to fit your idea of slaanesh powers doesn't mean they aren't. In fact, they very much are.

Now I didn't see anything in the possessed entry that makes them act like they are possessed by daemons from every chaos diety. If anything, those abilities remind me most of what slaanesh would give to his daemons.

Now the chosen can be made into the elite swordsmen you want them to be by giving a squad of five of them power swords, a mark for initiative 5 (thats more elite than marines, the same as the Eldar howling banshees), and they get a mark of slaanesh for feel no pain as well. Thats pretty darned elite swordsmen. Now, the way they make elite swordsmen in the marine dex isn't by giving them +1 str or even initiative. Pretty much it is through weapon options.

Now as far as them riding on steeds of slaanesh, again, this steps upon the toes of another codex..
Chaos Daemons so it is not very likely that gw would have ever done this.

So, vehicles being equipped with blastmasters and sonic weaponry doesn't make much sense to me because those weapons were created to stimulate the senses of their wielder...which is..a vehicle?...there really is no fluff reason i can think of for having that when they could just put a loud cannon on the same vehicle.

Now assult ramps on your vehicles? You've got them. They're called Chaos Land Raiders. Just because people believe they are too expensive is irrelevant. You have them. They work...and they are fluffy.