Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Ok, so Combat drugs are one of the things that the Emperors Children were introduced to at first and for a while that sufficed but ten thousand years after the heresy they really arent affected by them as much as they used to be. That is why they keep going to extremes for the thrills of it. Combat Drugs are also stepping on Dark Eldar toes as that is one of their very big things. It is doubtful gw will ever do this.

Except for the fact that many of the Warp based drugs while they don't do much for their senses, they still can create effects for the body such as physical strength or various things, as for the DE thing it's kinda moot considering that it's not a main thing for DE, just a side thing for their wych cult.

Can you kit a Chaos Lord to the teeth with slaaneshi artifacts and blessed with slaaneshi gifts? Absolutely. If you look through the CSM codex for the Chaos Artifacts it becomes clear that there are four different weapons that are for the four different chaos gods. The axe of blind fury is obviously Khorne, the black mace replicates the old nurgles rot in a way. It is definitely nurgle. Then the burning brand of skalathrax is painfully obvious that it is tzeentch, despite some claiming khorne. Now, when you look at Slaanesh, his birth was all about murder. When the Eldar started excessively murdering their own kind, slaaneshes birth was hastened. The murder sword is most definitely slaanesh fluffy

So your Chaos Lord can be equipped with the murder sword.

This is reaaaallllly stretching it, there has always been undivided weapons within lore, Each of those are undivided simply enough, or unaffiliated, and Tzeentchs artifact is the Scrolls of Magnus, with the burning brand having been used by Kharn and rumors about its power.

Now, the Chaos Boon table replicates in many ways the old Epic chaos gifts cards from epic space marine. A time when gifts were not chaos god specific for the most part. If you buy your lord a gift of mutation, it gives him a roll on the chaos boon table, just like the chaos lords got in epic. Just because those arent specifically tailored to fit your idea of slaanesh powers doesn't mean they aren't. In fact, they very much are.

I'll give you this one, though I would love to see marks make it so that get either god specific tables, or a higher chance at other things (Or just remove some of the most useless ones like +1BS, I'd love to have the old cloven hooves make my champion cavalry

Now I didn't see anything in the possessed entry that makes them act like they are possessed by daemons from every chaos diety. If anything, those abilities remind me most of what slaanesh would give to his daemons.

You mean besides the fact they for some reason switch and change at complete random? This seems more like they've been possessed by a Tzeentch Horror rather then something more constant like a Daemonette.

Now the chosen can be made into the elite swordsmen you want them to be by giving a squad of five of them power swords, a mark for initiative 5 (thats more elite than marines, the same as the Eldar howling banshees), and they get a mark of slaanesh for feel no pain as well. Thats pretty darned elite swordsmen. Now, the way they make elite swordsmen in the marine dex isn't by giving them +1 str or even initiative. Pretty much it is through weapon options.

I'll be honest this is somewhat of a power issue for me, a power sword is horrifically costed for them as a buyable option, but yet the SM get Honour guard that are far cheaper, come with 2+ and with +2S weapons, and with the FNP it's even more so, but I'll be honest and say i would love for them to be more akin to a Palatine Blade Squad, with WS5 and Power Swords, while being far more inexpensive and being able to fight instead of the Chaos Lord


Now as far as them riding on steeds of slaanesh, again, this steps upon the toes of another codex..
Chaos Daemons so it is not very likely that gw would have ever done this.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Hellstriders-of-Slaanesh http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Skullcrushers-of-Khorne
That's all I'm going to say on this.

So, vehicles being equipped with blastmasters and sonic weaponry doesn't make much sense to me because those weapons were created to stimulate the senses of their wielder...which is..a vehicle?...there really is no fluff reason i can think of for having that when they could just put a loud cannon on the same vehicle.
You mean besides the fact that the Occupants of the vehicle are going to be listening in too? Not to mention the Daemon Engines who would love to feel the sensation, and for note the Slaanesh Subjuguator Daemon Engine used them also in melee combat at close range to prevent things from fighting back. There's every fluff reason for this, including the fact that many of them can be hooked up so the sounds come inside, not to mention the devices to make it so that the occupants can hear the screams from the battlefield as if they were actually there.

Now assult ramps on your vehicles? You've got them. They're called Chaos Land Raiders. Just because people believe they are too expensive is irrelevant. You have them. They work...and they are fluffy.

Because it's fluffy to basically have a land raider army rather then a raiding force equipped to take slaves.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Plenty of people care, this has been a gigantic bugbear of the community for 7 years now. Players have screamed and moaned about it from the tail end of 4th edition, through 5th and 6th editions and now into 7th.

GW doesn't care. There are plenty of other people that care.

They could fix it if they wanted to. Very easily in fact. But they don't, so they haven't.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Ok, so Combat drugs are one of the things that the Emperors Children were introduced to at first and for a while that sufficed but ten thousand years after the heresy they really arent affected by them as much as they used to be. That is why they keep going to extremes for the thrills of it. Combat Drugs are also stepping on Dark Eldar toes as that is one of their very big things. It is doubtful gw will ever do this.

Except for the fact that many of the Warp based drugs while they don't do much for their senses, they still can create effects for the body such as physical strength or various things, as for the DE thing it's kinda moot considering that it's not a main thing for DE, just a side thing for their wych cult.

Can you kit a Chaos Lord to the teeth with slaaneshi artifacts and blessed with slaaneshi gifts? Absolutely. If you look through the CSM codex for the Chaos Artifacts it becomes clear that there are four different weapons that are for the four different chaos gods. The axe of blind fury is obviously Khorne, the black mace replicates the old nurgles rot in a way. It is definitely nurgle. Then the burning brand of skalathrax is painfully obvious that it is tzeentch, despite some claiming khorne. Now, when you look at Slaanesh, his birth was all about murder. When the Eldar started excessively murdering their own kind, slaaneshes birth was hastened. The murder sword is most definitely slaanesh fluffy

So your Chaos Lord can be equipped with the murder sword.

This is reaaaallllly stretching it, there has always been undivided weapons within lore, Each of those are undivided simply enough, or unaffiliated, and Tzeentchs artifact is the Scrolls of Magnus, with the burning brand having been used by Kharn and rumors about its power.

Now, the Chaos Boon table replicates in many ways the old Epic chaos gifts cards from epic space marine. A time when gifts were not chaos god specific for the most part. If you buy your lord a gift of mutation, it gives him a roll on the chaos boon table, just like the chaos lords got in epic. Just because those arent specifically tailored to fit your idea of slaanesh powers doesn't mean they aren't. In fact, they very much are.

I'll give you this one, though I would love to see marks make it so that get either god specific tables, or a higher chance at other things (Or just remove some of the most useless ones like +1BS, I'd love to have the old cloven hooves make my champion cavalry

Now I didn't see anything in the possessed entry that makes them act like they are possessed by daemons from every chaos diety. If anything, those abilities remind me most of what slaanesh would give to his daemons.

You mean besides the fact they for some reason switch and change at complete random? This seems more like they've been possessed by a Tzeentch Horror rather then something more constant like a Daemonette.

Now the chosen can be made into the elite swordsmen you want them to be by giving a squad of five of them power swords, a mark for initiative 5 (thats more elite than marines, the same as the Eldar howling banshees), and they get a mark of slaanesh for feel no pain as well. Thats pretty darned elite swordsmen. Now, the way they make elite swordsmen in the marine dex isn't by giving them +1 str or even initiative. Pretty much it is through weapon options.

I'll be honest this is somewhat of a power issue for me, a power sword is horrifically costed for them as a buyable option, but yet the SM get Honour guard that are far cheaper, come with 2+ and with +2S weapons, and with the FNP it's even more so, but I'll be honest and say i would love for them to be more akin to a Palatine Blade Squad, with WS5 and Power Swords, while being far more inexpensive and being able to fight instead of the Chaos Lord


Now as far as them riding on steeds of slaanesh, again, this steps upon the toes of another codex..
Chaos Daemons so it is not very likely that gw would have ever done this.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Hellstriders-of-Slaanesh http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Skullcrushers-of-Khorne
That's all I'm going to say on this.

So, vehicles being equipped with blastmasters and sonic weaponry doesn't make much sense to me because those weapons were created to stimulate the senses of their wielder...which is..a vehicle?...there really is no fluff reason i can think of for having that when they could just put a loud cannon on the same vehicle.
You mean besides the fact that the Occupants of the vehicle are going to be listening in too? Not to mention the Daemon Engines who would love to feel the sensation, and for note the Slaanesh Subjuguator Daemon Engine used them also in melee combat at close range to prevent things from fighting back. There's every fluff reason for this, including the fact that many of them can be hooked up so the sounds come inside, not to mention the devices to make it so that the occupants can hear the screams from the battlefield as if they were actually there.

Now assult ramps on your vehicles? You've got them. They're called Chaos Land Raiders. Just because people believe they are too expensive is irrelevant. You have them. They work...and they are fluffy.

Because it's fluffy to basically have a land raider army rather then a raiding force equipped to take slaves.

There's also all the new sonic weapons that FFG have been coming out with, I'd love some of those sonic sniper guns and pistols, course then I'd really just want everything from the Tome of Excess.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Ok, so Combat drugs are one of the things that the Emperors Children were introduced to at first and for a while that sufficed but ten thousand years after the heresy they really arent affected by them as much as they used to be. That is why they keep going to extremes for the thrills of it. Combat Drugs are also stepping on Dark Eldar toes as that is one of their very big things. It is doubtful gw will ever do this.

Except for the fact that many of the Warp based drugs while they don't do much for their senses, they still can create effects for the body such as physical strength or various things, as for the DE thing it's kinda moot considering that it's not a main thing for DE, just a side thing for their wych cult.

Can you kit a Chaos Lord to the teeth with slaaneshi artifacts and blessed with slaaneshi gifts? Absolutely. If you look through the CSM codex for the Chaos Artifacts it becomes clear that there are four different weapons that are for the four different chaos gods. The axe of blind fury is obviously Khorne, the black mace replicates the old nurgles rot in a way. It is definitely nurgle. Then the burning brand of skalathrax is painfully obvious that it is tzeentch, despite some claiming khorne. Now, when you look at Slaanesh, his birth was all about murder. When the Eldar started excessively murdering their own kind, slaaneshes birth was hastened. The murder sword is most definitely slaanesh fluffy

So your Chaos Lord can be equipped with the murder sword.

This is reaaaallllly stretching it, there has always been undivided weapons within lore, Each of those are undivided simply enough, or unaffiliated, and Tzeentchs artifact is the Scrolls of Magnus, with the burning brand having been used by Kharn and rumors about its power.

Now, the Chaos Boon table replicates in many ways the old Epic chaos gifts cards from epic space marine. A time when gifts were not chaos god specific for the most part. If you buy your lord a gift of mutation, it gives him a roll on the chaos boon table, just like the chaos lords got in epic. Just because those arent specifically tailored to fit your idea of slaanesh powers doesn't mean they aren't. In fact, they very much are.

I'll give you this one, though I would love to see marks make it so that get either god specific tables, or a higher chance at other things (Or just remove some of the most useless ones like +1BS, I'd love to have the old cloven hooves make my champion cavalry

Now I didn't see anything in the possessed entry that makes them act like they are possessed by daemons from every chaos diety. If anything, those abilities remind me most of what slaanesh would give to his daemons.

You mean besides the fact they for some reason switch and change at complete random? This seems more like they've been possessed by a Tzeentch Horror rather then something more constant like a Daemonette.

Now the chosen can be made into the elite swordsmen you want them to be by giving a squad of five of them power swords, a mark for initiative 5 (thats more elite than marines, the same as the Eldar howling banshees), and they get a mark of slaanesh for feel no pain as well. Thats pretty darned elite swordsmen. Now, the way they make elite swordsmen in the marine dex isn't by giving them +1 str or even initiative. Pretty much it is through weapon options.

I'll be honest this is somewhat of a power issue for me, a power sword is horrifically costed for them as a buyable option, but yet the SM get Honour guard that are far cheaper, come with 2+ and with +2S weapons, and with the FNP it's even more so, but I'll be honest and say i would love for them to be more akin to a Palatine Blade Squad, with WS5 and Power Swords, while being far more inexpensive and being able to fight instead of the Chaos Lord


Now as far as them riding on steeds of slaanesh, again, this steps upon the toes of another codex..
Chaos Daemons so it is not very likely that gw would have ever done this.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Hellstriders-of-Slaanesh http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Skullcrushers-of-Khorne
That's all I'm going to say on this.

So, vehicles being equipped with blastmasters and sonic weaponry doesn't make much sense to me because those weapons were created to stimulate the senses of their wielder...which is..a vehicle?...there really is no fluff reason i can think of for having that when they could just put a loud cannon on the same vehicle.
You mean besides the fact that the Occupants of the vehicle are going to be listening in too? Not to mention the Daemon Engines who would love to feel the sensation, and for note the Slaanesh Subjuguator Daemon Engine used them also in melee combat at close range to prevent things from fighting back. There's every fluff reason for this, including the fact that many of them can be hooked up so the sounds come inside, not to mention the devices to make it so that the occupants can hear the screams from the battlefield as if they were actually there.

Now assult ramps on your vehicles? You've got them. They're called Chaos Land Raiders. Just because people believe they are too expensive is irrelevant. You have them. They work...and they are fluffy.

Because it's fluffy to basically have a land raider army rather then a raiding force equipped to take slaves.

There's also all the new sonic weapons that FFG have been coming out with, I'd love some of those sonic sniper guns and pistols, course then I'd really just want everything from the Tome of Excess.

you can say I'm stretching it all you want but you would be wrong. Those weapons are exactly what I described them as. Belonging to specific dieties. why do you think the murder sword is a sword and not a mace or a power fist or a lightning claw? because, hello, elite SWORDSMEN!

And the combat drugs thing is for more than wytch cults. The characters can take them as well. They even have a special character that deals them.

I don't see the possessed as being from different daemons, to me the way they act is more like the original host taking over and then the daemon re asserting his control so the change to his abilities occurs.

Now that link you made of the slaanesh and Khorne riders from Fantasy, exactly which 40k codex are they stepping on?

Now, the blastmasters as I already said, were made for the wielder. It is irrelevant and not at all in line with the fluff that you think they should be on vehicles. that has never been their thing. They do nothing for a vehicle or its riders. To get the best sound from it you need to be as close as possible and that means holding on to it. Any farther away than that, such as having it strapped to a vehicle and you listening to it while inside the vehicle isn't extreme enough. And the daemons don't care about the sound it makes. That's for the Chaos marines, not the daemon engines or anyone else.

And who says you can't take prisoners in Land Raiders? What better way to protect your spoils of War from wandering bands of Khornate worshippers trying to steal them from you and add their skulls to Khorne's pile o' skulls?

See, you CAN make a fluffy legion list out of the codex. I have proven my point.

Now that link you made of the slaanesh and Khorne riders from Fantasy, exactly which 40k codex are they stepping on?

you can say I'm stretching it all you want but you would be wrong. Those weapons are exactly what I described them as. Belonging to specific dieties. why do you think the murder sword is a sword and not a mace or a power fist or a lightning claw? because, hello, elite SWORDSMEN!

And the combat drugs thing is for more than wytch cults. The characters can take them as well. They even have a special character that deals them.

I don't see the possessed as being from different daemons, to me the way they act is more like the original host taking over and then the daemon re asserting his control so the change to his abilities occurs.

It is irrelevant and not at all in line with the fluff that you think they should be on vehicles.

To get the best sound from it you need to be as close as possible and that means holding on to it. Any farther away than that, such as having it strapped to a vehicle and you listening to it while inside the vehicle isn't extreme enough.

And who says you can't take prisoners in Land Raiders? What better way to protect your spoils of War from wandering bands of Khornate worshippers trying to steal them from you and add their skulls to Khorne's pile o' skulls?

See, you CAN make a fluffy legion list out of the codex. I have proven my point.

 StarTrotter wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Ok, so Combat drugs are one of the things that the Emperors Children were introduced to at first and for a while that sufficed but ten thousand years after the heresy they really arent affected by them as much as they used to be. That is why they keep going to extremes for the thrills of it. Combat Drugs are also stepping on Dark Eldar toes as that is one of their very big things. It is doubtful gw will ever do this.

Except for the fact that many of the Warp based drugs while they don't do much for their senses, they still can create effects for the body such as physical strength or various things, as for the DE thing it's kinda moot considering that it's not a main thing for DE, just a side thing for their wych cult.

Can you kit a Chaos Lord to the teeth with slaaneshi artifacts and blessed with slaaneshi gifts? Absolutely. If you look through the CSM codex for the Chaos Artifacts it becomes clear that there are four different weapons that are for the four different chaos gods. The axe of blind fury is obviously Khorne, the black mace replicates the old nurgles rot in a way. It is definitely nurgle. Then the burning brand of skalathrax is painfully obvious that it is tzeentch, despite some claiming khorne. Now, when you look at Slaanesh, his birth was all about murder. When the Eldar started excessively murdering their own kind, slaaneshes birth was hastened. The murder sword is most definitely slaanesh fluffy

So your Chaos Lord can be equipped with the murder sword.

This is reaaaallllly stretching it, there has always been undivided weapons within lore, Each of those are undivided simply enough, or unaffiliated, and Tzeentchs artifact is the Scrolls of Magnus, with the burning brand having been used by Kharn and rumors about its power.

Now, the Chaos Boon table replicates in many ways the old Epic chaos gifts cards from epic space marine. A time when gifts were not chaos god specific for the most part. If you buy your lord a gift of mutation, it gives him a roll on the chaos boon table, just like the chaos lords got in epic. Just because those arent specifically tailored to fit your idea of slaanesh powers doesn't mean they aren't. In fact, they very much are.

I'll give you this one, though I would love to see marks make it so that get either god specific tables, or a higher chance at other things (Or just remove some of the most useless ones like +1BS, I'd love to have the old cloven hooves make my champion cavalry

Now I didn't see anything in the possessed entry that makes them act like they are possessed by daemons from every chaos diety. If anything, those abilities remind me most of what slaanesh would give to his daemons.

You mean besides the fact they for some reason switch and change at complete random? This seems more like they've been possessed by a Tzeentch Horror rather then something more constant like a Daemonette.

Now the chosen can be made into the elite swordsmen you want them to be by giving a squad of five of them power swords, a mark for initiative 5 (thats more elite than marines, the same as the Eldar howling banshees), and they get a mark of slaanesh for feel no pain as well. Thats pretty darned elite swordsmen. Now, the way they make elite swordsmen in the marine dex isn't by giving them +1 str or even initiative. Pretty much it is through weapon options.

I'll be honest this is somewhat of a power issue for me, a power sword is horrifically costed for them as a buyable option, but yet the SM get Honour guard that are far cheaper, come with 2+ and with +2S weapons, and with the FNP it's even more so, but I'll be honest and say i would love for them to be more akin to a Palatine Blade Squad, with WS5 and Power Swords, while being far more inexpensive and being able to fight instead of the Chaos Lord


Now as far as them riding on steeds of slaanesh, again, this steps upon the toes of another codex..
Chaos Daemons so it is not very likely that gw would have ever done this.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Hellstriders-of-Slaanesh http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Skullcrushers-of-Khorne
That's all I'm going to say on this.

So, vehicles being equipped with blastmasters and sonic weaponry doesn't make much sense to me because those weapons were created to stimulate the senses of their wielder...which is..a vehicle?...there really is no fluff reason i can think of for having that when they could just put a loud cannon on the same vehicle.
You mean besides the fact that the Occupants of the vehicle are going to be listening in too? Not to mention the Daemon Engines who would love to feel the sensation, and for note the Slaanesh Subjuguator Daemon Engine used them also in melee combat at close range to prevent things from fighting back. There's every fluff reason for this, including the fact that many of them can be hooked up so the sounds come inside, not to mention the devices to make it so that the occupants can hear the screams from the battlefield as if they were actually there.

Now assult ramps on your vehicles? You've got them. They're called Chaos Land Raiders. Just because people believe they are too expensive is irrelevant. You have them. They work...and they are fluffy.

Because it's fluffy to basically have a land raider army rather then a raiding force equipped to take slaves.

There's also all the new sonic weapons that FFG have been coming out with, I'd love some of those sonic sniper guns and pistols, course then I'd really just want everything from the Tome of Excess.

you can say I'm stretching it all you want but you would be wrong. Those weapons are exactly what I described them as. Belonging to specific dieties. why do you think the murder sword is a sword and not a mace or a power fist or a lightning claw? because, hello, elite SWORDSMEN!

And the combat drugs thing is for more than wytch cults. The characters can take them as well. They even have a special character that deals them.

I don't see the possessed as being from different daemons, to me the way they act is more like the original host taking over and then the daemon re asserting his control so the change to his abilities occurs.

Now that link you made of the slaanesh and Khorne riders from Fantasy, exactly which 40k codex are they stepping on?

Now, the blastmasters as I already said, were made for the wielder. It is irrelevant and not at all in line with the fluff that you think they should be on vehicles. that has never been their thing. They do nothing for a vehicle or its riders. To get the best sound from it you need to be as close as possible and that means holding on to it. Any farther away than that, such as having it strapped to a vehicle and you listening to it while inside the vehicle isn't extreme enough. And the daemons don't care about the sound it makes. That's for the Chaos marines, not the daemon engines or anyone else.

And who says you can't take prisoners in Land Raiders? What better way to protect your spoils of War from wandering bands of Khornate worshippers trying to steal them from you and add their skulls to Khorne's pile o' skulls?

See, you CAN make a fluffy legion list out of the codex. I have proven my point.

Actually you didn't. I find it insulting you would claim that he's stretching things despite you going out of your way to stretch everything. Look at what you had to do for every segment, stretch things to fit what was needed. Yes, the murder sword feels a bit Slaaneshi... but the Black Mace? How does it really feel nurgly? There's no real indication of it rotting or well anything. The burning brand is very much not for sure Skal either. The bloody fluff debates between Tzeentch or Khorne. And also you can't kit many units out. It's basically one guy that gets it and so can every undivided individual.

And so why is it that Slaaneshi Marines (especially noise marines) can't use drugs? You said it yourself. "Can't use drugs because done too much." And DE abuse drugs to no end as well yet they still get perks don't they?

And how is it swapping? They literally change their capabilities from becoming tankier (a bit of nurgle and tzeentch) to shreddy (slaanesh) to other things. It's not precise, it's like several daemons vying for one body.

You mean chaos daemons? The codex that was originally in CSM? Or need I remind you that Chaos Daemons are also a Fantasy codex and they have no problem there do they?

Actually no, it still fits. The fluff has blastmasters and the sorts. In 3.5 you could put them on your dreadnoughts, there's still the blasters that make you not capable of overwatching on vehicles as well. So no.

And why not add an assault ramp on rhinos? It fits perfectly with Khorne and Slaanesh. Or open topped as well. And you can go on and on about Land Raiders but a Land Raider doesn't really show a swift raider force.

See you CAN'T make a fluffy legion list. You haven't proven your point . Also, what of me? How can I make a Thousand Son list?

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Ok, so Combat drugs are one of the things that the Emperors Children were introduced to at first and for a while that sufficed but ten thousand years after the heresy they really arent affected by them as much as they used to be. That is why they keep going to extremes for the thrills of it. Combat Drugs are also stepping on Dark Eldar toes as that is one of their very big things. It is doubtful gw will ever do this.

Except for the fact that many of the Warp based drugs while they don't do much for their senses, they still can create effects for the body such as physical strength or various things, as for the DE thing it's kinda moot considering that it's not a main thing for DE, just a side thing for their wych cult.

Can you kit a Chaos Lord to the teeth with slaaneshi artifacts and blessed with slaaneshi gifts? Absolutely. If you look through the CSM codex for the Chaos Artifacts it becomes clear that there are four different weapons that are for the four different chaos gods. The axe of blind fury is obviously Khorne, the black mace replicates the old nurgles rot in a way. It is definitely nurgle. Then the burning brand of skalathrax is painfully obvious that it is tzeentch, despite some claiming khorne. Now, when you look at Slaanesh, his birth was all about murder. When the Eldar started excessively murdering their own kind, slaaneshes birth was hastened. The murder sword is most definitely slaanesh fluffy

So your Chaos Lord can be equipped with the murder sword.

This is reaaaallllly stretching it, there has always been undivided weapons within lore, Each of those are undivided simply enough, or unaffiliated, and Tzeentchs artifact is the Scrolls of Magnus, with the burning brand having been used by Kharn and rumors about its power.

Now, the Chaos Boon table replicates in many ways the old Epic chaos gifts cards from epic space marine. A time when gifts were not chaos god specific for the most part. If you buy your lord a gift of mutation, it gives him a roll on the chaos boon table, just like the chaos lords got in epic. Just because those arent specifically tailored to fit your idea of slaanesh powers doesn't mean they aren't. In fact, they very much are.

I'll give you this one, though I would love to see marks make it so that get either god specific tables, or a higher chance at other things (Or just remove some of the most useless ones like +1BS, I'd love to have the old cloven hooves make my champion cavalry

Now I didn't see anything in the possessed entry that makes them act like they are possessed by daemons from every chaos diety. If anything, those abilities remind me most of what slaanesh would give to his daemons.

You mean besides the fact they for some reason switch and change at complete random? This seems more like they've been possessed by a Tzeentch Horror rather then something more constant like a Daemonette.

Now the chosen can be made into the elite swordsmen you want them to be by giving a squad of five of them power swords, a mark for initiative 5 (thats more elite than marines, the same as the Eldar howling banshees), and they get a mark of slaanesh for feel no pain as well. Thats pretty darned elite swordsmen. Now, the way they make elite swordsmen in the marine dex isn't by giving them +1 str or even initiative. Pretty much it is through weapon options.

I'll be honest this is somewhat of a power issue for me, a power sword is horrifically costed for them as a buyable option, but yet the SM get Honour guard that are far cheaper, come with 2+ and with +2S weapons, and with the FNP it's even more so, but I'll be honest and say i would love for them to be more akin to a Palatine Blade Squad, with WS5 and Power Swords, while being far more inexpensive and being able to fight instead of the Chaos Lord


Now as far as them riding on steeds of slaanesh, again, this steps upon the toes of another codex..
Chaos Daemons so it is not very likely that gw would have ever done this.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Hellstriders-of-Slaanesh http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Skullcrushers-of-Khorne
That's all I'm going to say on this.

So, vehicles being equipped with blastmasters and sonic weaponry doesn't make much sense to me because those weapons were created to stimulate the senses of their wielder...which is..a vehicle?...there really is no fluff reason i can think of for having that when they could just put a loud cannon on the same vehicle.
You mean besides the fact that the Occupants of the vehicle are going to be listening in too? Not to mention the Daemon Engines who would love to feel the sensation, and for note the Slaanesh Subjuguator Daemon Engine used them also in melee combat at close range to prevent things from fighting back. There's every fluff reason for this, including the fact that many of them can be hooked up so the sounds come inside, not to mention the devices to make it so that the occupants can hear the screams from the battlefield as if they were actually there.

Now assult ramps on your vehicles? You've got them. They're called Chaos Land Raiders. Just because people believe they are too expensive is irrelevant. You have them. They work...and they are fluffy.

Because it's fluffy to basically have a land raider army rather then a raiding force equipped to take slaves.

There's also all the new sonic weapons that FFG have been coming out with, I'd love some of those sonic sniper guns and pistols, course then I'd really just want everything from the Tome of Excess.

you can say I'm stretching it all you want but you would be wrong. Those weapons are exactly what I described them as. Belonging to specific dieties. why do you think the murder sword is a sword and not a mace or a power fist or a lightning claw? because, hello, elite SWORDSMEN!

And the combat drugs thing is for more than wytch cults. The characters can take them as well. They even have a special character that deals them.

I don't see the possessed as being from different daemons, to me the way they act is more like the original host taking over and then the daemon re asserting his control so the change to his abilities occurs.

Now that link you made of the slaanesh and Khorne riders from Fantasy, exactly which 40k codex are they stepping on?

Now, the blastmasters as I already said, were made for the wielder. It is irrelevant and not at all in line with the fluff that you think they should be on vehicles. that has never been their thing. They do nothing for a vehicle or its riders. To get the best sound from it you need to be as close as possible and that means holding on to it. Any farther away than that, such as having it strapped to a vehicle and you listening to it while inside the vehicle isn't extreme enough. And the daemons don't care about the sound it makes. That's for the Chaos marines, not the daemon engines or anyone else.

And who says you can't take prisoners in Land Raiders? What better way to protect your spoils of War from wandering bands of Khornate worshippers trying to steal them from you and add their skulls to Khorne's pile o' skulls?

See, you CAN make a fluffy legion list out of the codex. I have proven my point.

Actually you didn't. I find it insulting you would claim that he's stretching things despite you going out of your way to stretch everything. Look at what you had to do for every segment, stretch things to fit what was needed. Yes, the murder sword feels a bit Slaaneshi... but the Black Mace? How does it really feel nurgly? There's no real indication of it rotting or well anything. The burning brand is very much not for sure Skal either. The bloody fluff debates between Tzeentch or Khorne. And also you can't kit many units out. It's basically one guy that gets it and so can every undivided individual.

And so why is it that Slaaneshi Marines (especially noise marines) can't use drugs? You said it yourself. "Can't use drugs because done too much." And DE abuse drugs to no end as well yet they still get perks don't they?

And how is it swapping? They literally change their capabilities from becoming tankier (a bit of nurgle and tzeentch) to shreddy (slaanesh) to other things. It's not precise, it's like several daemons vying for one body.

You mean chaos daemons? The codex that was originally in CSM? Or need I remind you that Chaos Daemons are also a Fantasy codex and they have no problem there do they?

Actually no, it still fits. The fluff has blastmasters and the sorts. In 3.5 you could put them on your dreadnoughts, there's still the blasters that make you not capable of overwatching on vehicles as well. So no.

And why not add an assault ramp on rhinos? It fits perfectly with Khorne and Slaanesh. Or open topped as well. And you can go on and on about Land Raiders but a Land Raider doesn't really show a swift raider force.

See you CAN'T make a fluffy legion list. You haven't proven your point . Also, what of me? How can I make a Thousand Son list?

I didn't stretch anything. Games Workshop has always put something in their Chaos books for the four different powers of Chaos. If you want to know how all four of those things relate to specific dieties then do some research and see what they most resemble. The khorne axe is obviously khorne and even says so. the mace is nurgle because it has an effect similar to an old nurgle ability. In case you haven't noticed, a good portion of 40k these days mimics the very very old stuff from Epic Space Marine and 2nd edition 40k. The black mace power resembles the old Nurgles rot from those games.

While the effect may not be described as rotting, nurgle is more than just rot. He is about diseases, plagues (not all plagues are a disease...there are plagues of frogs, plagues of locusts, plagues of insects, etc. What other chaos god would you say forces you to take a toughness test or collapse into "mouldering bone". Look up the word Moulder...it is definitely nurgle.

Do I really have to explain to you why Chaos Marines might be highly resistant to the effects of drugs after 10,000 years of exposure yet Dark Eldar aren't? Really? It is because they have things like the Oolitic Kidney, the Neuroglottis, etc. And their senses are fried. Dark Eldar keep regenerating themselves, something the Chaos Space Marines don't do. So the Dark Eldar don't build up an immunity.

And you will never see an assult ramp from a rhino. They won't even do that for marines, their poster boys, so what makes you think they will do it for Chaos Space Marines?

I did indeed prove my point, even if you refuse to accept that I did. It doesn't mean I was wrong just because you disagree with me.

I'm sure with enough research into the Thousand Sons I could come up with something for you but I doubt it would be good enough as you seem to have a pre conceived notion of what they are like. Like I said in my original post on this subject though, you CAN do it, just not necessarily as exact as you would like.

 Ailaros wrote:
Before you were being saved from yourself. Now GW treats players like adults. You know, who can make their own decisions about stuff.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just find it weird that people are saying "But you can make a [Insert Legion Here] army with the current 'Dex!". I find it weird for three reasons:

1. What they're suggesting is just the Codex + 'Counts As'. It's taking a list in a certain way and saying that it 'Counts As' a World Eater or Alpha Legion army.
2. We live in a world where Chapter Tactics are a thing, allowing a Marine player to actually play a White Scar, Iron Hands, Salamander, etc. army with rules that represent how the army plays.
3. We have Dark Angel, Blood Angel, Space Wolf and Grey Knight Codices as separate books allowing for variant Marines, yet Chaos wanting rules for the Legions is somehow too much?

What the hell people?

Once upon a time you could play all the Legions. Not all of them were very good (1KSons were one of the most gimped armies in the game - and someone in this thread called them "cheesy"... oh Jesus... ), but they could be done. Then they had all their Legion rules taken away, and then all their Daemons (even generic ones) taken away. You can't play a World Eater army in current 40K any more than you can play a "Valhallan" army or a "Beil-Tan" army. These groups don't have rules - they are just 'Counts As'. There are rules for Iron Hands and Imperial Fists in the Marine Codex, and they each have their own supplements on top of that. Black Templars still exist within that book as well, with things unique to them. Yet for some of you here you're acting as if Legion rules are a bridge too far, or something that Chaos players don't "need". How does that logic make any sense at all???

Why do people rail against this when it comes to Chaos? If I suggested "Move the Blood Angels back into the Marine Codex", people would scream bloody murder. Suggest rules that differentiate Thousand Sons from Iron Warriors though, well no, we can't ever have that!

Look to the current Marine 'Dex. Look to the Forge World Horus Heresy series. Right here we have two examples of how one can include army-specific special rules without creating an entire new list (ala Blood Angels and those books). It's such a simple thing to do - and you could apply the methodology to virtually everything (Eldar Craftworlds, Guard Regiments, Ork Klanz, Necron Dynasties, Tau Septs, Tyranid Hive Fleets, Dark Eldar... whatever Dark Eldar come in I can't remember exactly).

Klan Kunnin' (Bad Moonz Klan): Flash Gits can be taken as Elites and Heavy Support.

 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just find it weird that people are saying "But you can make a [Insert Legion Here] army with the current 'Dex!". I find it weird for three reasons:

1. What they're suggesting is just the Codex + 'Counts As'. It's taking a list in a certain way and saying that it 'Counts As' a World Eater or Alpha Legion army.
2. We live in a world where Chapter Tactics are a thing, allowing a Marine player to actually play a White Scar, Iron Hands, Salamander, etc. army with rules that represent how the army plays.
3. We have Dark Angel, Blood Angel, Space Wolf and Grey Knight Codices as separate books allowing for variant Marines, yet Chaos wanting rules for the Legions is somehow too much?

What the hell people?

Once upon a time you could play all the Legions. Not all of them were very good (1KSons were one of the most gimped armies in the game - and someone in this thread called them "cheesy"... oh Jesus... ), but they could be done. Then they had all their Legion rules taken away, and then all their Daemons (even generic ones) taken away. You can't play a World Eater army in current 40K any more than you can play a "Valhallan" army or a "Beil-Tan" army. These groups don't have rules - they are just 'Counts As'. There are rules for Iron Hands and Imperial Fists in the Marine Codex, and they each have their own supplements on top of that. Black Templars still exist within that book as well, with things unique to them. Yet for some of you here you're acting as if Legion rules are a bridge too far, or something that Chaos players don't "need". How does that logic make any sense at all???

Why do people rail against this when it comes to Chaos? If I suggested "Move the Blood Angels back into the Marine Codex", people would scream bloody murder. Suggest rules that differentiate Thousand Sons from Iron Warriors though, well no, we can't ever have that!

Look to the current Marine 'Dex. Look to the Forge World Horus Heresy series. Right here we have two examples of how one can include army-specific special rules without creating an entire new list (ala Blood Angels and those books). It's such a simple thing to do - and you could apply the methodology to virtually everything (Eldar Craftworlds, Guard Regiments, Ork Klanz, Necron Dynasties, Tau Septs, Tyranid Hive Fleets, Dark Eldar... whatever Dark Eldar come in I can't remember exactly).

How come special rules for the different color schemes is necessary? I feel it actually takes away from the group by saying this color scheme always play this specific way. Look at the Eldar codex for example: If I want to use a force comprised of elite guardians supported by powerful farseer and his seer council I can do so. Or I can run pure wraith units if I want to play up Iyanden focus on ghost warriors. Instead of saying only Craftworld: Iyanden can take an all wraith army or limiting a Iyanden army to only taking wraith units I can choose which aspect of the craftworld to focus on. I do agree that the chaos book has some bizarre things when trying to put together your army: lack of god specific daemon weapons outside of khorne etc. However, I don't think doing something like if you choose a Night Lord army then you must spam raptors to be true night lords. Restrctions can make people be more creative, but it can also have the opposite effect and take a varied group and pigeonhole them into a single play style.

 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:
How come special rules for the different color schemes is necessary?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:
How come special rules for the different color schemes is necessary?

*deep breath*

Because they're not just different colour schemes!!!!!!

The Bad Moonz are different to the Blood Axes who are different to Iyande who are different to Biel-Tan who are different to World Eaters who are different to Night Lords who are different to Iron Hands who are different to Ultramarines. And in that sentence, two of those 'different colour schemes' have their own separate rules. The rest do not.

If you want to use an army to represent another one, that's fine. No one says that your Wraith-heavy army must be Iyanden, but the "Iyanden List" would be where those rules come from.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd still base it around the actual Chapters/Craftworlds/Regiments/Klanz/etc. rather than making them generic. Generic traits lead to something we had a while back, the Guard Doctrine/Marine Traits systems. Those systems did not work, and I'll quickly explain why before someone jumps in and says "Those were great!".

Firstly, yes, they were great. I had tons of fun with the old Guard Doctrine system. It was wonderful building custom armies with all these various ways of changing units, special rules and whatnot. You could play anything you want. However, there was an inherent problem with them, and it was a problem that the Marines Traits system had as well, and even a little bit with the 3.5 Chaos Codex Legion rules:

The rules were based around giving things up.

What I mean by that is you had the standard Guard list, and then if you wanted to take a Doctrine army you were given 5 points to spend on Doctrines, and a bunch of the regular units from the Guard list became "Restricted Units". These were things like Priests, Rough Riders, Storm Troopers, Ratlings, Ogryn, and so on. You lost them from your list and had to buy them back. So where's the downside? Well, if you never intended to take Priests, Rough Riders, etc. then you weren't actually losing anything.

I never used Priests, Sanctioned Psykers, Stormies, Ratlings and all of them. They were, for the most part, junk units (the "best" Sanction Psyker power was a Heavy D6 Lasgun... yeah...). So by giving these units up that you were never going to use in the first place, you gained all these extra abilities (Iron Discipline and Close-Order Drill being two of the best).

The same applied to the Marine one. There were major and minor advantages and major and minor disadvantages. Some of the disadvantages were crippling (give up 1 Elite, 1 FA and 1 HS slot), but others weren't. One particular one wasn't at all - no allies. Again, it was giving up something you may not have been taking in the first place, so you could take two advantages and then your "disadvantage" was something that wasn't really a disadvantage (and keep in mind, this is 4th Ed, long before the Allies Matrix or any of that nonsense - allies back then just mean Inquisition/Grey Knights/Sisters).

3.5 Chaos, much as I adore that book, had a similar problem. Iron Warriors could gain another HS slot by "giving up" two FA slots. Night Lords could do the opposite. Well if you were never going to use more than 1 FA or 1 HS slot, then you weren't really giving anything up.

Even the Craftworld Eldar book had a bit of that, like how Beil-Tan would give up certain Guardian units in order to take Aspects as Troops. Well... if you had no plan on taking Guardians, then you weren't really giving anything up.

Generally speaking - and this isn't always true - being forced to give something up to gain an advantage can be gamed if you never intended to take the restricted unit in the first place. This is why I love the current Marine Codex and especially the FW HH books. They're additions - not subtractions - they add rules and units, rather than adding things in place of other things.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
The problem is that 3.5 was the best example of Chaos as a whole, and as a result is the main usage when it comes to showing people that something akin to it can actually work.

I mean people don't shout SM down about fluff and blood angels and stuff, but when I give true examples as to why Emperor's Children are not fluffy at all or even have the options to it.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

The regular CSM codex has more than enough stuff in it to make any legion you want to make. But I'm sorry that you can't take a World Eaters Terminator Captain that would be like Kharn on primarch level combat drugs simply because you think thats the way the captain of the World eaters would be so its fluffy, or that every single model in your Emperors Children have blastmasters

But you CAN make any legion you want to. Just not necessarily the exact way you personally think they should be. But hey, Eldar can't either..nor can anyone else.

Just painting an army the colors doesn't make it that army, SM gets all their flavors and can eat it too.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
As a BT player, I say chapter tactics as a concept is perfectly fine, and wonderful.

The problem with the Black Templars being rolled into the main codex and getting chapter tactics was the execution, not the concept. The actual units Templars use in combat aren't unique to them, only their command structure is unique. That could have been very easily fleshed out with chapter tactics. What we got instead was disgraceful and lazy.

Honestly though, if the last few codices are any example, I think they would have been screwed even if they'd been given the

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

The regular CSM codex has more than enough stuff in it to make any legion you want to make. But I'm sorry that you can't take a World Eaters Terminator Captain that would be like Kharn on primarch level combat drugs simply because you think thats the way the captain of the World eaters would be so its fluffy, or that every single model in your Emperors Children have blastmasters

But you CAN make any legion you want to. Just not necessarily the exact way you personally think they should be. But hey, Eldar can't either..nor can anyone else.

Just painting an army the colors doesn't make it that army, SM gets all their flavors and can eat it too.

As a BT player, not even close. Chapter Tactics isn't a panacea. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

EDIT: That came across harsher than I meant it to, what I'm saying is that having Chapter Tactics isn't the same as being able to build a fluffy army that isn't rubbish on the tabletop, that actually requires the Chapter Tactics in question to be good.

As an example, if Legion Tactics: World Eaters gave you Crusader and Adamantine Will (funny how BT and WE are so alike ), would that be enough to capture the "feel" of a World Eater army? Probably not, because there'd still be the issue of melee being poop in comparison to shooting unless you're a Jetseer council or Screamerstar or somesuch.