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I've been thinking about everything but FHOK that's khorne. Let's be honest, most of them are mediocre or suck.

What I've been thinking about a way to differentiate khornate daemons from being the weaker cousins of Slaanesh Daemons.

Let's first compare the two:

Khorne Daemons have:
Medium-high WS, SM-Initative, S5/6 OTC.

Slaanesh Daemons
Medium WS, Medium-high Initiative, high attack account. S3 OTC.

So, Slaanesh daemons are weaker and are technically less 'skilled' combatant; they bring more dice to the table.

What I suggest is that bloodletters go up by 3 points, crushers up by 5 points (consider a 5 point reduction, since they deserve a 3+ armour save. :p) In exchange for this price increase, the khorne daemons lose their standard sword, and instead get access to a power-weapon style set of weapons. So, they can have the equivalent of a Power Maul, Power Axe or Power Sword - with daemon-y names. Of course, unlike rewards you'd have to make these decisions before you bring them to the table. I'm at two ends about whether or not to allow them to have different weapons within one squad, I think that might be worth a few more points to let a few of them strike with a power maul rather than a power axe.

It'd also be worth upgrading the Bloodthirster to its former glory. The thing once had STR 8 and Smash has been nerfed so it's not going to karate chop every tank to death.

also, of the three, being a 'Daemon of Khorne" has the least benefit. Furious charge isnt what it used to be. And compare that to shrouded / rending + fleet + super run / reroll saves of 1 & +3 ld for PotW.

I might spend some time tomorrow going over my daemons codex to see what would be best.

I would recommend that Bloodletters and Crushers be given options to switch to Power Maul, Axe and Spear variants. They could also have a natural 4+ Deny the Witch. Heralds and Bloodthirsters get a 3+.

Bloodthirsters?
WS 10
Str 8
W5
Int 6

 Deadshot wrote:
I would recommend that Bloodletters and Crushers be given options to switch to Power Maul, Axe and Spear variants. They could also have a natural 4+ Deny the Witch. Heralds and Bloodthirsters get a 3+.

Bloodthirsters?
WS 10
Str 8
W5
Int 6

agreed. being a daemon of khorne gives a lot less benefits than being a daemon of anything else; they should get themselves better stats as a result.

They also cost more than a wraithknight, take up a more valuable slot comparatively and are not as tough, why don't they get SOME of that strength?

Buffing weapon skill would help - as it stands now it's grossly over costed. If it was in line with the to wound table how would people feel? So for example, hitting a model with ws6 as ws4 would require a 6

What is the current statline of the Bloodthirster? Lsst I checked it was
WS 10
BS 5
Str 8
T6
W 4
I 5
A 5
Ld 10
Sv 3+/4++

Terror from the Deep wrote:
Buffing weapon skill would help - as it stands now it's grossly over costed. If it was in line with the to wound table how would people feel? So for example, hitting a model with ws6 as ws4 would require a 6

Something like that would be nice, it rather stupid that the Avatar of Khaine who has WS 10 has the same chance of hitting a grot as he does versus a daemon prince. There needs to be some benefits to really high weapon skill either offensively, or defensively.

I think the WS chart should be the same as the Str vs T chart for wounding.

If the attacking WS is at least 2 higher than the defending WS (Ie, WS 5 vs WS3 and under), you need 2+.
If attacking WS is 1 higher, 3+
If WS are equal, need a 4+
If the attacking WS is one lower, need a 5+
If the attacking WS is 2, 3 or 4 lower (WS 4 vs WS6-8 you need 6+
If the attacking WS is 5 or more lower than the defending WS, cannot be hit. I don't see how a Space Marine would even land a blow on the Avatar, or a Guardsmen to hit an Assassin.

 Deadshot wrote:
What is the current statline of the Bloodthirster? Lsst I checked it was
WS 10
BS 5
Str 8
T6
W 4
I 5
A 5
Ld 10
Sv 3+/4++

WS10 BS10 S6 T6 W5 I9 A6 LD9 Sv3+/5++ in the current codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deadshot wrote:
I think the WS chart should be the same as the Str vs T chart for wounding.

If the attacking WS is at least 2 higher than the defending WS (Ie, WS 5 vs WS3 and under), you need 2+.
If attacking WS is 1 higher, 3+
If WS are equal, need a 4+
If the attacking WS is one lower, need a 5+
If the attacking WS is 2, 3 or 4 lower (WS 4 vs WS6-8 you need 6+
If the attacking WS is 5 or more lower than the defending WS, cannot be hit. I don't see how a Space Marine would even land a blow on the Avatar, or a Guardsmen to hit an Assassin.

let's keep the current math, shall we?

Also if you throw enough blokes at something, one's gonna hit. It's not fair to remove their attacks for being incompetent.

IF Aws>=2dws+1, 2+
IF Aws>Dws, 3+
IF Aws=Dws, 4+
IF Aws<Dws, 5+
IF 2Aws+1><=Dws, 6+.

(where Aws is the attacker's WS, Dws is the defenders weaponskill)

I think that's a good change.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
What is the current statline of the Bloodthirster? Lsst I checked it was
WS 10
BS 5
Str 8
T6
W 4
I 5
A 5
Ld 10
Sv 3+/4++

WS10 BS10 S6 T6 W5 I9 A6 LD9 Sv3+/5++ in the current codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deadshot wrote:
I think the WS chart should be the same as the Str vs T chart for wounding.

If the attacking WS is at least 2 higher than the defending WS (Ie, WS 5 vs WS3 and under), you need 2+.
If attacking WS is 1 higher, 3+
If WS are equal, need a 4+
If the attacking WS is one lower, need a 5+
If the attacking WS is 2, 3 or 4 lower (WS 4 vs WS6-8 you need 6+
If the attacking WS is 5 or more lower than the defending WS, cannot be hit. I don't see how a Space Marine would even land a blow on the Avatar, or a Guardsmen to hit an Assassin.

let's keep the current math, shall we?

Also if you throw enough blokes at something, one's gonna hit. It's not fair to remove their attacks for being incompetent.

IF Aws>=2dws+1, 2+
IF Aws>Dws, 3+
IF Aws=Dws, 4+
IF Aws<Dws, 5+
IF 2Aws+1><=Dws, 6+.

(where Aws is the attacker's WS, Dws is the defenders weaponskill)

I think that's a good change.

I have no clue what your trying to say. I haven't taken maths in over a year so your convoluted writings confound me.d

Anyway, I do believe that an incompetant attacker should not be able to hit a highly skilled one. There is no cause for Guardsmen being able to tear down a Hive Tyrant en masse, or a Bloodthirster. If someone is incompetent, a skilled fighter with WS isn't gonna be touched.

How about some sort of "Blood for the blood god" rule where the become beefier the more they kill..

My suggestions:
Problem: Bloodletters only role is to assault, and sadly just aren't good enough at it to justify their higher points cost.
Solution 1: All Daemons of Khorne have the Bloodthirsty Charge rule. Models with this rule gain +1 Initiative on the turn they launch an assault, as long as this is not a Disordered Charge.
Solution 2: Introduce more abilities (not just for Khorne) that forces Pinning checks on enemy units. This could help with reducing damage from Overwatch and charging through terrain.

Problem: I personally feel that Khorne's hatred of Psykers hasn't been explored deeply enough in this edition. With no psychic ability to beef themselves up (or Warp Charges to deny enemy psykers), Khorne is ironically at a huge disadvantage to psychic Daemons.
Solution 1: All Daemons of Khorne that are characters can purchase a Collar of Khorne which grants the Adamantium Will special rule for 10pts.
Solution 2: A Locus of Abjuration adds +1 to your Warp Charge pool during your opponent's turn.

Problem: Everything that isn't in Power Armour.
Solution: Call Hellblades "Power Weapons" instead. Let the models decide if they're axes, swords, etc as normal.

Problem: Bloodcrushers aren't worth their points.
Solution: Bump them up to T5, no points increase.

Just some thoughts.