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I know that Warmarchine is releasinga turn based game, but I was just curious if people would play a computer game that replicated 40k rules exactly.

Now we have Vassal but I was just kind of curious, as depending on how things break down over the next couple of years the odds are pretty high.

So would you play it and do you think it will happen?

Hell no. The only thing even remotely enjoyable about 40k is the models, take that away and you're left with a painfully bad game with no redeeming qualities. And why waste time playing bad video games when there are good ones to play instead?

I picked Yes I would play. You didn't have the caveat I don't think it will ever happen.

However, Being computer based I would like topoint out they would have to fix the rules loopholes and ambiguity. A computer can't roll off to figure out a rule.

Ooo, ooo, does it come with a button that let's me argue against the game's predefined rules?

Only if i were desperate for a game. I prefer wargames to video games because its rewarding and far more social. plus its a good conversation starter when guests see my collection.

Turing it into a video game exactly kind of defeats the purpose for me. Plus I hate AI in video games. Always play against humans when I can. So I would have it as a back up, but wouldnt be excited or use it often.

Yes, a thousand times yes, not having to deal with other people would make the game so much more enjoyable for someone like me. Shame that most likely it will never happen, at least not in the near future.

 Jaceevoke wrote:
Yes, a thousand times yes, not having to deal with other people would make the game so much more enjoyable for someone like me. Shame that most likely it will never happen, at least not in the near future.

You mean not legally. Or officially. Or at all. It doesn't exist, stop harassing me! (Psst, it exists -- tell no one)

 Peregrine wrote:
Hell no. The only thing even remotely enjoyable about 40k is the models, take that away and you're left with a painfully bad game with no redeeming qualities. And why waste time playing bad video games when there are good ones to play instead?

Exactly, I hardly play now days myself, the modeling and fluff side are what I'm into at the moment.

The computer gives you the ability to do many things the tabletop cannot. To try to replicate the tabletop on the PC wastes a lot of what the medium brings to the table... so to speak. There's definitely room for large scale strategy games on the PC but I really hope they don't try to replicate the tabletop as it would be a wasted opportunity. More Dawn of War games, new games with scale like total war, new space + land hybrid games, RPGs, the MMO of course. So many good options for games set in 40k without being the tabletop game ported over.

Doesn't vassal basically replicate the tabletop game anyway?

Yes, I would. In fact I already do. I play the game on Vassal and I also play it on Roll20.

It's great. None of the tedium that you see on the tabletop. It takes 5 minutes to complete your entire turn when you have 150 models in your conscript list or green tide, rather than hour. I can give my army any color scheme I want with just a couple of clicks, and if I get bored of playing with one faction I can always just select a different one. For less than the price of a riptide I have access to every army and every unit in the game and I also get an experience that is significantly more streamlined than its table-top equivalent.

The only benefit to playing the table-top game is if you're a hobbyist and you enjoy the painting, kit-bashing converting etc.

Only as a side game. 40K for me is all about having awesome models in hand, models which I can paint and model and then have pride in.

Obviously I am one of "those guys" who can only field painted models in a force.

I might play it, but not as a substitute for 40k.

I would. Online play will allow getting some games in with friends when you are pressed for time to even be out.

Of course, playing the actually game is definitely more fun if time was not a factor.

I would love to play my friends across the pond with it.

Hollismason wrote:Now we have Vassal

Exactly. We already have a literal translation of 40k into video game format, and very few people play it. Even if you threw some money and talent at it to make a nicer version of vassal, people still wouldn't' play it, no matter how much enthusiasm they might express before the fact.

40k is a good tabletop game because it's a tabletop game. Just because something is good in one medium doesn't mean it's going to be good in another. I mean, the news is interesting, but you wouldn't pay to go see a movie where someone is just reading the newspaper to you. Paintball is interesting, but you wouldn't spend $400 on a painting of people playing paintball.

When you switch mediums, you have to change things to be appropriate for that medium. It's why books don't always translate well into movies, because you can't just take a book and put it on the screen and have a good book magically equal a good movie. The same principle is true here. DoW was a good RTS because it was a good RTS that was 40k flavored, not because 40k translates well into an RTS (because it really wouldn't).

In the end, it just wouldn't translate well, which means it wouldn't keep people's attention for long. Just like how there isn't an ever-increasing swell of people playing vassal.

I'm afraid GW would try to charge us for the digitla models.

Need more Tactiical Marines ? Sure sir, that will be $9.99.

I don't see the point.

I love my Eldar Skimmers. I play because of that, and because I like making terrain and painting and stuff. I don't suppose the video game would have a "clean up flash and glue your minis" or "Raphael 8404 Kolinksy" or "Iwata HP-CS" simulator right ? That'd be ... slowed.

I don't see how any strategy game would hold a candle to SC2 either, if you're into competitive play.

Give me a "smart" 3-D modeling extension for the game (a la DOW 1/2 but with bitz and options as good or better than the sprues) and I would pay all of the monies.

 Xca|iber wrote:
Give me a "smart" 3-D modeling extension for the game (a la DOW 1/2 but with bitz and options as good or better than the sprues) and I would pay all of the monies.

Dawn of War 3 before it was put on hold was moving down that route. You would build your permanent army similar to tabletop. Shame THQ had problems and relic got sold to sega, I hope it still eventuates.

 Ailaros wrote:

Hollismason wrote:Now we have Vassal

Exactly. We already have a literal translation of 40k into video game format, and very few people play it.

That's probably because:

- Vassal40K is an obscure mod based upon an obscure game that functions on an obscure program that's a fart in the wind of the internet. Vassal as a program, much less Vassal40K, is not marketed. Vassal is not advertised. There are no commercials for Vassal, or ads. 99.99999999999999999% of people in the world aren't aware that Vassal exists. 99% of 40K players aren't aware that Vassal exists, much less that there's a mod for it that allows you to play 40K on it.

- Vassal is a cheap, very weakly powered program with a user-interface that's counter-intuitive. The sprites that are used for the game are hand-drawn and then scanned into the game, thus they're poor renditions of the actual units, terrain etc.

Your argument is equivalent to someone in 2002 saying that Dawn of War would never sell because Warhammer 40K: Rites of War was ass and no one liked it. It ignores the possibility that, hey, if you make a product that's actually good and you make an effort to market that product it might actually make some money, like Dawn of War did. And Space Marine did.

Vassal40K actually isn't that bad when you consider that it was made by a couple of dudes in their spare time for free. If someone with money invested in making a digital adaptation of tabletop 40K, like Privateer Press is currently doing with Warmachine: Tactics (which looks fething awesome, btw) and gave it modern graphics and an online lobby-system, I have no doubt that it would sell well.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The only benefit to playing the table-top game is if you're a hobbyist and you enjoy the painting, kit-bashing converting etc.

But if you don't like those things then why play 40k at all? It's a terrible game if you just look at the rules, and there are much better options out there if you just want a fun game. And even if you love the IP enough to put up with bad gameplay wouldn't a better alternative to a literal "video game 40K" be an entirely new video game set in the 40k universe that is designed to be a good video game and not just a literal clone of a bad tabletop game?

 Peregrine wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The only benefit to playing the table-top game is if you're a hobbyist and you enjoy the painting, kit-bashing converting etc.

But if you don't like those things then why play 40k at all? It's a terrible game if you just look at the rules, and there are much better options out there if you just want a fun game. And even if you love the IP enough to put up with bad gameplay wouldn't a better alternative to a literal "video game 40K" be an entirely new video game set in the 40k universe that is designed to be a good video game and not just a literal clone of a bad tabletop game?

Maybe some like the rules as they are and think it's a great game?

 Peregrine wrote:
But if you don't like those things then why play 40k at all?

Because I choose to.


Why do you play 40K? You have the models. You can paint them up and convert them and make them pretty. None of that has anything to do with playing the game though. You can make a model look pretty and it'll look great on a shelf, or at a painting competition. Why do you feel compelled to play 40K if all you care about, regarding 40K, is the hobbyist aspect and not the gaming aspect?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Yes, I would. In fact I already do. I play the game on Vassal and I also play it on Roll20.

It's great. None of the tedium that you see on the tabletop. It takes 5 minutes to complete your entire turn when you have 150 models in your conscript list or green tide, rather than hour. I can give my army any color scheme I want with just a couple of clicks, and if I get bored of playing with one faction I can always just select a different one. For less than the price of a riptide I have access to every army and every unit in the game and I also get an experience that is significantly more streamlined than its table-top equivalent.

The only benefit to playing the table-top game is if you're a hobbyist and you enjoy the painting, kit-bashing converting etc.

How do you play it on Roll20? And could you play fantasy with it, I play it on vassal but they havn't updated new models in a long time for many factions.

But if you don't like those things then why play 40k at all? It's a terrible game if you just look at the rules, and there are much better options out there if you just want a fun game. And even if you love the IP enough to put up with bad gameplay wouldn't a better alternative to a literal "video game 40K" be an entirely new video game set in the 40k universe that is designed to be a good video game and not just a literal clone of a bad tabletop game?

Because I actually enjoy playing it?

 milkboy wrote:
Maybe some like the rules as they are and think it's a great game?

Not possible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Why do you play 40K? You have the models. You can paint them up and convert them and make them pretty. None of that has anything to do with playing the game though. You can make a model look pretty and it'll look great on a shelf, or at a painting competition. Why do you feel compelled to play 40K if all you care about, regarding 40K, is the hobbyist aspect and not the gaming aspect?

Because the hobby isn't the only thing I care about. I love gaming in general, and I like the story and being able to play games with the models I've made. I even enjoy what little strategy there is in 40k. But if I didn't care about the models and just wanted to play a tabletop wargame I wouldn't even consider 40k when there are much better alternatives. And I certainly wouldn't want to waste time playing a video game version when there are much better strategy video games, even ones set in the 40k universe.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


How do you play it on Roll20? And could you play fantasy with it, I play it on vassal but they havn't updated new models in a long time for many factions.

Here's a link to a Dakka BatRep that showcases the sprites and stuff used for it. I think the links to the Roll20 group are old though. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/585689.page#6648762

Here's a link to the most recent recruiting thread. Post in there showing some interest and Sam should be able to help you out.

https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/930059/survey-warhammer-40k-tournament#post-933794

Unfortunately, I think a good of the factions are missing units. Like, I know that the only Space Marine models that have been made are Black Legion and Ultra Marine colors.

 Peregrine wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The only benefit to playing the table-top game is if you're a hobbyist and you enjoy the painting, kit-bashing converting etc.

But if you don't like those things then why play 40k at all? It's a terrible game if you just look at the rules, and there are much better options out there if you just want a fun game. And even if you love the IP enough to put up with bad gameplay wouldn't a better alternative to a literal "video game 40K" be an entirely new video game set in the 40k universe that is designed to be a good video game and not just a literal clone of a bad tabletop game?

Largely where I am now btw - playing through all the Dawn of Wars. Painting my models.

BlaxicanX wrote:Vassal40K is an obscure mod based upon an obscure game that functions on an obscure program that's a fart in the wind of the internet.

But if it were better, it wouldn't be so obscure.

"What does the fox say?" went from zero to 300 million views in just two months. As you say, this is the internet. If people like it, it goes viral. Meanwhile, most people who do anything internet-related with 40k have at least heard of vassal before. It's not obscure just because it doesn't have a large advertising budget.

BlaxicanX wrote: Vassal is a cheap, very weakly powered program with a user-interface that's counter-intuitive. The sprites that are used for the game are hand-drawn and then scanned into the game, thus they're poor renditions of the actual units, terrain etc.

Which doesn't help, of course. If I've learned anything from minecraft or FTL, though, it's that a video game doesn't rise and fall on its graphics, or even necessarily its UI.

Meanwhile, flashy graphics and lots of power won't fix a bad game.

BlaxicanX wrote: It ignores the possibility that, hey, if you make a product that's actually good and you make an effort to market that product it might actually make some money, like Dawn of War did. And Space Marine did.

That's sort of my point, though.

The problem is that a "good" video game isn't just a product of effort and marketing. The movie John Carter had a huge amount of effort and money put into it, but that didn't make it sell tickets either, while the blair witch project brought in a huge amount of cash.

One of the things necessary to a good video game is that it makes use of its medium as a video game to do those things well that only video games can do well. Porting a board game directly into a video game isn't going to work very well at all. Just like any time you try and copy things from one medium to another without taking that change into consideration.

Am exact video game replica of 40k tabletop action would be sweet, with colourful effects, millions of wargear options and models, a fully customizable army painter... it could be really sweet and allow for way more player testing. Interested in a new faction? Roll up a few lists and take them online. I would kill for something that allowed that.

Will it happen without major considerations towards rules and actual gameplay mechanics? Perhaps not for awhile, but it isn't impossible. I would still play tabletop 40k because pushing plastics is fun, but a good 40k video game would be invaluable.

If DoW was a good game - it was decent - then DoW3 would not have been put on hold, and the company making those games would be rich, not poor.

I know of one company that used to consistently make good games until they were acquired, and those guys made tons of money (Blizzard). Now they make shittier games but they still make tons of money.

DoW had a lot more success than I anticipated, but it's still very obscure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

darkcloak wrote:
Am exact video game replica of 40k tabletop action would be sweet, with colourful effects, millions of wargear options and models, a fully customizable army painter... it could be really sweet and allow for way more player testing. Interested in a new faction? Roll up a few lists and take them online. I would kill for something that allowed that.

Will it happen without major considerations towards rules and actual gameplay mechanics? Perhaps not for awhile, but it isn't impossible. I would still play tabletop 40k because pushing plastics is fun, but a good 40k video game would be invaluable.

*lightbulb*

One of the things that are very wrong about 40K right now is how static the rules are.

If there was a WH40K simulator, and regular rules updates, and free e-rules for everyone, then maybe codexes and rulebooks would sell less, but at least we'd have much better balance.

Maybe such a game wouldn't be a bad thing after all