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Oh, I see.

If that entire factory is run by six guys they won't save much by employing six guys in China instead.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
I wonder why GW manufactures their stuff in the UK. Most companies like them have their factories in developing countries since the cost of labour is so much less.

Any GW stuff manufactured in China would get pirated in about 25 nano seconds.

implying it already isnt

GW manufacturing and Warehouse used to be a great bunch of people in the early 2000's. (don't know if any of them are still there).

when I moved to the UK I had to bring my furniture with me and a removal company would cost me buckets of cash.
So the Warehouse agreed to accept it as a product return from the distributor in Holland.

UPS moved my sofa, table, chairs, bed, clothing etc. all unboxed with simply return labels on them. It was then stored in a corner of the hall in the picture on page one for a month while I found a place to live.

Good times

Floris wrote:
GW manufacturing and Warehouse used to be a great bunch of people in the early 2000's. (don't know if any of them are still there).

when I moved to the UK I had to bring my furniture with me and a removal company would cost me buckets of cash.
So the Warehouse agreed to accept it as a product return from the distributor in Holland.

UPS moved my sofa, table, chairs, bed, clothing etc. all unboxed with simply return labels on them. It was then stored in a corner of the hall in the picture on page one for a month while I found a place to live.

Good times

Was that even legal?

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
I wonder why GW manufactures their stuff in the UK. Most companies like them have their factories in developing countries since the cost of labour is so much less.

Any GW stuff manufactured in China would get pirated in about 25 nano seconds.

implying it already isnt

IDK if it is or isn't, but it is a lot easier to pirate plastic models if you hold the actual moulds. You just run a whole lot more jobs than the customer ordered and sell them yourself.

richred_uk wrote:

Without doing a proper cost/ benefit analysis I can't say that it is cheaper or more expensive to manufacture in China, but it's not automatically the bargain you think.

Bit of cherry-picking, I agree, but:
10 Cadians for $29
10 Eisenkern Stormtroopers for $22.
But, let's be realistic, whatever cost savings GW gets from any changes to their manufacturing will never be passed on to us, the consumer. If anything, GW will find some way to spin it into a price hike.

Definitely a positive feature of the modern GW, that they employ British labour in the factory.

..Which makes me think that it can't possibly last

 Pacific wrote:
Definitely a positive feature of the modern GW, that they employ British labour in the factory.

..Which makes me think that it can't possibly last

Sad but true !

It will be a very sad day for me, if GW do move elsewhere or come a cropper as although they are hated around the world and charge far too much, they are held in very high regard around these parts, not many local businesses make it on that scale or indeed employ locals on that scale either.

By the time you pay the Chinese and ship your boxes around the world its probably not that much cheaper than making it locally. The developing world is developing. The peasants in rural China are still broke but the urban Chinese are moving up in the world. China won't be poor forever if they keep working long shifts seven days a week and saving their money. Not to mention whatever national sentimentality GW might have to keep work domestic.

If GW wanted to outsource to a poor country they should look at Scotland.

I believe GW tried China at some point and things didn't work out so well quality wise which is why everything is back in the UK. Keep in mind, the production isn't what costs so much, the products cost so much because of the art and design as well as being an extremely niche product.

There was a YouTube video floating around that showed their factory in the UK, I think it was for investors or something like that. Not sure if that is still around but it was a good look the process.

 sing your life wrote:
Except, if they made product in China it would cost less to make the miniatures, which hopefully would lead to price drops.

No, it wouldn't. The benefits of outsourcing production to places like China and India depends on scale. If you've got production involving 10,000 workers, working three shifts, you'd save a lot of money by cutting labor costs, but in a case like this where you'd be using the same equipment, that's going to be more expensive. Shipping UK made factory equipment to a UK location is chip. Importing it to China is quite expensive, but with what you save on personnel costs, you could still come out ahead.

If you've got a relatively small staff, then there's no sense in going through all the effort and expense of setting up overseas. It'll cost you more than you save.

That factory is a lot cleaner than any wall board factory I've ever been in. I'd love a tour of that place.

According to my friend who works at Lenton, they did do a cost /benefit project in to transfer of production to China.
Apparently is it is cheaper to keep production in Lenton.

AFAIK, the actual production costs , (wages , equipment depreciation , power , floor space ,etc, ) is less than 8% of the retail price.
When you add in the over head cost of EVERYTHING apart from the cost of running the B&M stores.
This only equated to 33% of the retail price.

Over 50% of GW plc gross profits are spent keeping the chain of B&M stores open.

So everyone buying new GW products is paying twice as much as they should to keep the B&M stores open.

This is why GW plc competitors can make much better value for money products.They work WITH independent retailers , fan sites and openly communicate with customers on the interwebs/social media.

GW plc , fortress wall and moat are proving a barrier to entry like they said.Only it is stopping customers not competition though.

so how exactly are a bunch of B&M stores costlier than AN ENTIRE FACTORY with all its personell?

Lanrak wrote:
According to my friend who works at Lenton, they did do a cost /benefit project in to transfer of production to China.
Apparently is it is cheaper to keep production in Lenton.

AFAIK, the actual production costs , (wages , equipment depreciation , power , floor space ,etc, ) is less than 8% of the retail price.
When you add in the over head cost of EVERYTHING apart from the cost of running the B&M stores.
This only equated to 33% of the retail price.

I've always wondered why they chose to shut down manufacturing there. I talked to a few guys I knew when I worked there, but they really didn't have any definitive answers. It was kind of a mystery as to why the UK puled everything back.

 Sir Arun wrote:
so how exactly are a bunch of B&M stores costlier than AN ENTIRE FACTORY with all its personell?

Have you counted the sheer number of B&M stores they have?

 sing your life wrote:
Except, if they made product in China it would cost less to make the miniatures, which hopefully would lead to price drops.

Very optimistic. I think GW look at cutting costs as a means to increase profits, like with Finecast, not to pass on and make the product cheaper for the consumer.

 mechanicalhorizon wrote:

I've always wondered why they chose to shut down manufacturing there. I talked to a few guys I knew when I worked there, but they really didn't have any definitive answers. It was kind of a mystery as to why the UK puled everything back.

I have no definite information, but judging by the ongoing reduction in volume of product sold every year since 2004 I am guessing that they just don't make enough stuff to keep two manufacturing plants busy any more.

Consolidating what had been made in the USA back into one production facility in the UK was likely cheaper and less disruptive than moving Head Office over to the USA.

I'm just guessing though, based on general business understanding.

Osbad's theory probably has something in it.

The point of polystyrene injection moulding is that you can turn out huge volumes of product quickly, therefore reducing the need for lots of factories.

Combine all the production under one roof and run the factory 24/7 if you have to. You save a whole load of costs such as insurance, leasing and plant that offset against the increased shipping cost of everything going out of the UK. Plastic kits are lighter and cheaper to ship. too.

Huh, there used to be a really good YouTube vid of a factory tour. But it seems to be missing.

I don't doubt that it would be cheaper to produce in the US the standards of H&S and employee benefits and working conditions are lower.

The US standard 10 days off (I assume paid?) vs. 20 days in the UK (more normally 25 plus bank holidays) would mean a circa 4% saving alone on labour costs.

Nonetheless moving HQ to the US would make no sense at all, if nothing else Nottingham now forms quite a good base of Wargaming based talent and resources.

The small number of workers required to operate the machinery means that labour costs are minor relative to the cost of machinery and space.

We wrote:
I believe GW tried China at some point and things didn't work out so well quality wise which is why everything is back in the UK.

Weren't some of the ForgeWorld minis cast in China at some point?

 notprop wrote:
I don't doubt that it would be cheaper to produce in the US the standards of H&S and employee benefits and working conditions are lower.

The US standard 10 days off (I assume paid?) vs. 20 days in the UK (more normally 25 plus bank holidays) would mean a circa 4% saving alone on labour costs.

Nonetheless moving HQ to the US would make no sense at all, if nothing else Nottingham now forms quite a good base of Wargaming based talent and resources.

No required days off in the USA. Most Employers give 8 off a year, but I've worked places that had no mandatory days off.

 Sir Arun wrote:
so how exactly are a bunch of B&M stores costlier than AN ENTIRE FACTORY with all its personell?

I don't recall how many B&Ms there are, but let's go with 100.

Your assumption is that the factory costs more than 100x the salaries for the managers, rental of the store, insurance for the store, etc.
"All it's personnel" is a silly statement because it probably only requires like... 10 people. 5-6 shift workers and the rest are office, shipping/recv, etc.
The building has likely been paid off for a long time, so you're down to maintenance on that and the machines... it's (relatively) cheap to run the factory.

The B&M stores in the UK are all in high traffic high street locations as well mostly, they come with very high rent and / or running costs.

 Rayvon wrote:
The B&M stores in the UK are all in high traffic high street locations as well mostly, they come with very high rent and / or running costs.

Now that you mention it... Covent Garden and Kensington are not exactly the cheapest places to put GW stores.

 notprop wrote:
Nottingham now forms quite a good base of Wargaming based talent and resources.

Which is why I'm trying to move there