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 Lobomalo wrote:
True, but he is still cool imo. Though at times I wish he died for reals.

Eh, it's the catch of Chaos in general and really makes them some of the most charming characters to field. Chaos Daemons, Necrons, Tyranids, and CSM get one perk in narrative. You aren't stuck to the I was just knocked out/down or I had to retreat. No, you can die but be revived/reborn (even if Nids it doesn't make too much sense). Necromancy, strange and creepy medical experts, magic, the gods, being an immortal daemon, being a machine that gets sent back to return. No matter what, you can explain it in so many ways compared to the awkward and clunky restrictions of the rest.

*Apologies for OT*

I was so tempted to make a Daemons army, but BA swayed me. Me and a friend are doing a corrupted angel army with DA/BA

 Lobomalo wrote:
I was so tempted to make a Daemons army, but BA swayed me. Me and a friend are doing a corrupted angel army with DA/BA

Renegades?

Anyways, my opinion is mixed. On the one hand, you have things like warriors that just aren't worth being fielded. Then you have problems with units such as Oblits where the extra T is just too vital to not pick making the other options even less appealing than they already were. Characters? It makes 200 point models that provide slay the warlord as well (more often than not) go splat handing away points to the enemy and feeling rather anticlimatic. At the same time, bar few exceptions, it largely makes sense that a meltagun melts you to the point you have to at least wait a bit before fighting onward.

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
I was so tempted to make a Daemons army, but BA swayed me. Me and a friend are doing a corrupted angel army with DA/BA

Renegades?

Anyways, my opinion is mixed. On the one hand, you have things like warriors that just aren't worth being fielded. Then you have problems with units such as Oblits where the extra T is just too vital to not pick making the other options even less appealing than they already were. Characters? It makes 200 point models that provide slay the warlord as well (more often than not) go splat handing away points to the enemy and feeling rather anticlimatic. At the same time, bar few exceptions, it largely makes sense that a meltagun melts you to the point you have to at least wait a bit before fighting onward.

Not exactly, some fluff manipulation to have Cypher recruit those Fallen not corrupted by Chaos to a rogue DA group, they stumble on a cure for the Red Thirst, though they don't yet know its a fake, some BA, mostly Death Company decide to leave the army in favor of the cure. We are working on it but this sums it up.

Waaaghpower wrote:
I was comparing the armies. Space Marines have the best gear available to the Imperium, but their tech just isn't anywhere near as advanced.

And once again, two different roles. Archons exist to pick off slow-moving targets before blows can be struck. They're cheaper, lighter, faster, and can still weather powerful hits until their dice crap out.
Chapter Masters are freight trains, not scalpels. They hit last, and hit hard, but first they're always going to be weathering a ton of damage.

Not to mention, a slow-hitting freight train would stick out like a sore thumb in a DE army, and a fragile speedster would do the same in an Imperial Fists army.

Maybe Vect is overcosted. I don't know his abilities and I don't own the codex to look. But you can't compare two different units with two different roles, playstyles, and armies, and expect them to be the same.

I not expecting them to be the same sorry if I came across that way, I wanted to say that I felt EW was an unnecessary rule since it removes a important check against powerful characters which having to worry about being instantly killed. Let say like what the OP suggested every named character had EW, now a player can basically throw their character at whatever they want without having to think about the risk versus the rewards of doing so. For example Lysander without EW could still destroy a dreadnought on his own, but the player would have to think is it worth the risk of potentially losing him to kill the dreadnought. However, since he has EW the player can just send him alone against a dreadnought and the worse he will suffer is a wound or so. What even worse about EW is the fact that in order to counter it GW came up with things that just flat out remove the model from the game and D-weapons which were plain silly in 6th. Honestly I wouldn't mind instant death being removed and just replace it with weapons that can inflict multiple wounds and weapons that do things like inflict D3 wounds. It removes the need to have EW and allow for more unit design options like T3 models with multiple wounds actually getting to use said wounds instead of just getting ID by so many weapons.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I still get miffed that the oldest living Space Marine not yet interred in a dreadnaught is not an Eternal Warrior.

You'd think that's the epitome of the term.

Dumb rules are dumb.

You mean the guy who is younger then many of the CSM SC's and who isn't blessed by a literal god?

One of which should be able to possess people when he dies as well.

You mean the handwaving of the warp that is you could have lived 30 days or 30 millenia because time doesn't flow linearly?

*shrug* It still makes sense that someone like that has plot armor. More so, someone like Thawn and the others like him, would also be the true immortals.

It's the rule that's equal to plot armor and to be a stop gap for a poor mechanic of the game. It's literally the thing holding back many different units, like Tyranid Warriors, from being good.

 TheKbob wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I still get miffed that the oldest living Space Marine not yet interred in a dreadnaught is not an Eternal Warrior.

You'd think that's the epitome of the term.

Dumb rules are dumb.

You mean the guy who is younger then many of the CSM SC's and who isn't blessed by a literal god?

One of which should be able to possess people when he dies as well.

You mean the handwaving of the warp that is you could have lived 30 days or 30 millenia because time doesn't flow linearly?

*shrug* It still makes sense that someone like that has plot armor. More so, someone like Thawn and the others like him, would also be the true immortals.

It's the rule that's equal to plot armor and to be a stop gap for a poor mechanic of the game. It's literally the thing holding back many different units, like Tyranid Warriors, from being good.

Oh I know, it's irritating because oblits need Nurgle marks to keep for it.

 TheKbob wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I still get miffed that the oldest living Space Marine not yet interred in a dreadnaught is not an Eternal Warrior.

You'd think that's the epitome of the term.

Dumb rules are dumb.

You mean the guy who is younger then many of the CSM SC's and who isn't blessed by a literal god?

One of which should be able to possess people when he dies as well.

You mean the handwaving of the warp that is you could have lived 30 days or 30 millenia because time doesn't flow linearly?

*shrug* It still makes sense that someone like that has plot armor. More so, someone like Thawn and the others like him, would also be the true immortals.

It's the rule that's equal to plot armor and to be a stop gap for a poor mechanic of the game. It's literally the thing holding back many different units, like Tyranid Warriors, from being good.

Hence why I would prefer if ID and EW were simply removed from the game and just have certain weapons be capable of inflicting multiple wounds to represent their deadliness. This lets you have units with multiple never get to use said wounds just cause they happen not to have the perfect combination of toughness, saves and wounds instead of the situation we have right now.

EW should be changed to some sort of test, perhaps a toughness test. Roll less than or equal to your toughness or die. 6 always fails but higher toughness (6+) should get some sort of modified reroll because these are creatures that really could take multiple hits from Uber powerful weapons.

 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:

Hence why I would prefer if ID and EW were simply removed from the game and just have certain weapons be capable of inflicting multiple wounds to represent their deadliness. This lets you have units with multiple never get to use said wounds just cause they happen not to have the perfect combination of toughness, saves and wounds instead of the situation we have right now.

I agree.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:

Hence why I would prefer if ID and EW were simply removed from the game and just have certain weapons be capable of inflicting multiple wounds to represent their deadliness. This lets you have units with multiple never get to use said wounds just cause they happen not to have the perfect combination of toughness, saves and wounds instead of the situation we have right now.

I agree.

My Crisis Suits agree, also. Goddamn Krak missiles...