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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 11:04:33
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Dakka Veteran
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Quick answer: Can you use those flamer templates during Overwatch against those units?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 14:16:52
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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No, as they are not being hit by snapshots
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 14:33:17
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
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flamer weapons do not use the template to overwatch and as such yes they do as they automatically hit the unit for D3 hits.
you cannot however use flamer templates in the shooting phase to shoot at those units.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 14:51:14
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Killer Klaivex
Oceanside, CA
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Can't Wall of Death at Deathleaper.
Overwatch is done with normal shooting rules (only in the assault phase).
Normal shooting that uses templates can't be fired.
Normal shooting that auto-hits can't be fired at a model that is hard to hit.
-Matt
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/22 14:51:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 15:07:26
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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HawaiiMatt wrote:Can't Wall of Death at Deathleaper.
Overwatch is done with normal shooting rules (only in the assault phase).
Normal shooting that uses templates can't be fired.
Normal shooting that auto-hits can't be fired at a model that is hard to hit.
-Matt
If Deathleaper can be overwatched, you can overwatch him. as flamers can overwatch, yes, you can overwatch him with them.
As with Invisible units, nothing prevents overwatch, and so wall o' death can be used.
so quick question to your "Quick Answer": Yes.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 15:13:51
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Is wall of death a snapshot? Given the answer is no, he cannot be targeted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 15:29:36
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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It is the Wall of Death rule.
Wall of death just inflicts hits when used with the overwatch rules.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 17:01:29
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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Simple string of events: 1. You cannot fire anything but snapshots at him. 2. Flamers cant snap shot. 3. Overwatch is snap shots. 4. Wall of death is allowed during overwatch. 5. Wall of death is effectively a flamer snap shotting, but only works in the overwatch shooting phase. 6. Wall of death works on deathleaper and invisible units.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/22 17:01:53
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 17:03:31
Subject: Re:Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Irked Blood Angel Scout with Combat Knife
Nebraska US
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Wall of Death is a special rule regarding Overwatch with templates. Templates cannot fire snapshots, but they can fire overwatch. Deathleaper would suffer d3 automatic hits per template in the overwatch.
The entire point of WoD is to allow templates to hit things in overwatch despite not being able to snap fire.
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Blood Drinkers, depressed about 7th Edition Codex. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 17:06:37
Subject: Re:Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The wall of death rule provides permission to use the rule for overwatch even though it can't fire a snap shot.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/22 17:07:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 17:25:44
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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WoD is a special rule and can hit Deathleaper as any other charging model.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 17:30:10
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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"Some weapons, such as Template and Ordnance [...] cannot be fired as snapshots."
Wall of Death: Template weapons can fire Overwatch, even though they cannot fire Snap Shots. Instead, if a Template weapon fires Overwatch, it automatically inflicts d3 hits on the charging unit [...]
QED: You can Overwatch with template weapons against invisible units as their restriction of only being able to fire Snapshots is already overruled by Wall of Death / template weapons special Overwatch rules.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 21:28:59
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Tough Tyrant Guard
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Wall of death over rides the overwatch restriction.
It does not however over ride DL restrictions for snap shots as it is still not defined as a snap shot.
So no, to WoD it has to conflict with DLs rules, as it doesn't you can not use it against him.
You go to fire overwatch.
You can't fire snap shots but you can WoD with flamers.
DL checks if WoD are snapshots
Nope, ends there
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/22 21:35:40
It's my codex and I'll cry If I want to.
Tactical objectives are fantastic |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 22:57:05
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Been Around the Block
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"Wall of Death: Template weapons can fire Overwatch, even though they cannot fire Snap Shots. Instead, if a Template weapon fires Overwatch, it automatically inflicts d3 hits on the charging unit"
If a DL assault or anyone with invisibility assaults you then WoD can still inflict d3 hits. What is there to discuss? Templates cannot fire snapshots instead automatically inflicts d3 hits on the charging unit. There is nothing about the DL special rule that overrides this.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 23:08:14
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Screaming Shining Spear
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rnlmeat0666 wrote:"Wall of Death: Template weapons can fire Overwatch, even though they cannot fire Snap Shots. Instead, if a Template weapon fires Overwatch, it automatically inflicts d3 hits on the charging unit"
If a DL assault or anyone with invisibility assaults you then WoD can still inflict d3 hits. What is there to discuss? Templates cannot fire snapshots instead automatically inflicts d3 hits on the charging unit. There is nothing about the DL special rule that overrides this.
I dont think so, I am going to have to agree with Nem here. You have two seperate restrictions at the same time.
A: You may only fire Snap Shots in Overwatch.
B: You may only fire Snap Shots at Death Leaper.
Wall of Death is a specific exception to restriction "A". However, it is not a specific exception to restriction "B."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 23:20:49
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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The Hive Mind
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rnlmeat0666 wrote:"Wall of Death: Template weapons can fire Overwatch, even though they cannot fire Snap Shots. Instead, if a Template weapon fires Overwatch, it automatically inflicts d3 hits on the charging unit"
If a DL assault or anyone with invisibility assaults you then WoD can still inflict d3 hits. What is there to discuss? Templates cannot fire snapshots instead automatically inflicts d3 hits on the charging unit. There is nothing about the DL special rule that overrides this.
There is - the WoD is not a snap shot - correct?
Can Deathleaper be hit by things that are not snap shots?
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 23:57:15
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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So you guys are ignoring the fact that the WoD rule states that during the overwatch phase, instead of snap firing it just "automatically" inflicts D3 hits?
If, RAW, deathleapers rule says it can ONLY be hit by snap shots, you have a small argument. It does however have to say exactly that. If it says weapons can only fire snap shots at deathleaper, then your argument falls flat.
However RAI, as i said earlier, is clearly meant as WoD IS a flamer version of snap shots that can only be taken in the overwatch phase.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 00:37:42
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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The Hive Mind
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Eihnlazer wrote:So you guys are ignoring the fact that the WoD rule states that during the overwatch phase, instead of snap firing it just "automatically" inflicts D3 hits?
Not at all. That's just not a relevant statement.
If, RAW, deathleapers rule says it can ONLY be hit by snap shots, you have a small argument. It does however have to say exactly that. If it says weapons can only fire snap shots at deathleaper, then your argument falls flat.
So you're arguing about a rule when you have no idea what it says? That's... Interesting.
The enemy model is targeting Deathleaper. It can only fire snap shots. WoD is explicitly not a snap shot.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 01:34:07
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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The thing is, it is firing snap shots.
WoD is a snap shot for flamers that are in the overwatch phase.
They cant snap shot in the normal firing phase, but they can in overwatch due to WoD.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 02:02:35
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Eihnlazer wrote:The thing is, it is firing snap shots.
WoD is a snap shot for flamers that are in the overwatch phase.
They cant snap shot in the normal firing phase, but they can in overwatch due to WoD.
Wall of Death is most definitely not snap shots for flamers, as the rules are rather clear that template weapons cannot fire snap shots.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 02:14:39
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I see no rule saying automatic hits do not hit death leaper. If a blast scatters on top of him he is indeed hit. I see a rule saying snap shots hit him. However if something automatically hits then we know what it does. No need to decide what type of hit it was. We know it hit. Because it automatically hit.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/23 02:16:21
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 05:16:03
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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Automatic hits definitely can hit Deathleaper, but if it isn't a snap shot you can't fire it if your target is Deathleaper.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 06:15:07
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Automatic hits trump any shooting requirements. You just automatically hit D3 times, this one is a clear case.
And as was said, this has nothing whatsoever to do with snap shots or even shooting. The hits are automatic, triggered when you are being charged.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 06:53:44
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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Yes, you would be able to hit Deathleaper if it weren't for the fact you don't even have permission to fire the template weapons in the first place.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 07:10:12
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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PrinceRaven wrote:Yes, you would be able to hit Deathleaper if it weren't for the fact you don't even have permission to fire the template weapons in the first place.
Exactly.
Wall of death even says in the rule that it's not a snap shot. If it's not a snap shot, then it cannot be fired at deathleaper. Where's the confusion?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 08:53:25
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Naw wrote:Automatic hits trump any shooting requirements. You just automatically hit D3 times, this one is a clear case.
And as was said, this has nothing whatsoever to do with snap shots or even shooting. The hits are automatic, triggered when you are being charged.
Yes, a clear case of you ignoring the more specific rule, which is that you can only target DL with weapons that are snap firing. These hits, automatic or not, CANNOT hit DL as they are NOT snap firing.They are rather explicitly NOT snap firing.
Cf to flyers, which also cannot be "automatically" hit.
Which is why I said initially - is Wall of Death a template snap firing? No? Then it cannot work.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 12:12:30
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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The Hive Mind
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No, no it's not. The rule even says it's not.
Why would you make a statement so blatantly contradicted by the rules quoted in this thread?
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 12:24:25
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Been Around the Block
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Why are people debating over this topic, the Deathleaper doesn't gain anything special when it assaults. He falls under any unit that assault another unit. Templates gets the WoF treatment stop trying to weasel out of this. My friend plays Nids and he doesn't even remotely care about this rule because fundamentally its not game breaking and it doesn't make much sense in the real world if you can't see a giant bug 1 inch in front of you with the technology the universe presents.
This whole debate is just as silly as the people arguing people can cast as many pskyer spells they want regardless of mastery level. At the end of the day roll a D6 and go with it maybe they will throw in a FAQ for it, but really its pretty plain and simple when you put into perspective.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 12:24:44
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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Rig, the WoD is not a "snap shot" as defined in the BRB. Its a snap shot for a flamer.
They had to come up with a different name for snap shot template weapon so used Wall of Death.
You should be able to see that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 12:40:26
Subject: Invisibility/Deathleaper's "Where is it" and Wall of Fire
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Eihnlazer wrote:Rig, the WoD is not a "snap shot" as defined in the BRB. Its a snap shot for a flamer.
They had to come up with a different name for snap shot template weapon so used Wall of Death.
You should be able to see that.
That's not entirely true. It's not a "different snapshot", it's a different special rule as Template weapons cannot fire Snapshot at all. In this very case, Wall of Death (god, that name...) overrides Invisibility as the ability to fire Snapshots is already taken away by the weapon type.
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