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Depends on how much it costs. If your warboss is in a challenge vs a worthy opponent, he's dead anywayz both with or without a stix. It might probably be used for FNP rerolls though. Besides, it's important how it works. If you reroll one at a time - it's a zero-risk relic. If you have to say: I'll reroll 3 dice than it's risky.

And a turn is both your and enemy turn?

Yep, unfortunately, once again warbosses should avoid a good fight vs beatsticks.

Solar Shock wrote:
Jidmah, a few pages back you suggested a morkanaught over a meka-dread, can i ask as to what you reasoning was. I really like the idea of the rokkit bomb racks, even with a chance for them to run out T1. I think your right having looked at them both, but id like your views or anyone elses for that matter.

I playtested the meka dread a couple of times by using soul grinders as proxy, when I decided whether I buy one or not. In the end, the Kustom Meka dread is very expensive and not very hard to kill since its just 3 HP and rear armor 11 often caused it be killed by skimmers driving behind it. It also has very few attacks when charged, which happens more often than you'd think, since no one wants it to have its additional rage attacks. You also can't take both the KFF and the bomb racks.

The morkanaut, on the other hand is only slightly more expensive (290 with KFF and IWND vs meka dread at 280 with shunta and KFF), but is vastly superior in shooting with its KMK, KMB and TL-rokkit , and also much a much harder punch in close combat as well, due to AP1 and more attacks. Rear armor 12, 5 HP and IWND are just the icing on the cake. Personally, I'd just ignore the transport capacity, maybe use it later during a game to hide away a unit of boyz that's about to get wiped out, just have them capture an objective later on.

 easysauce wrote:
I just dont see anyone shooting at trukk boys when they have things like MAN Z en thein truks or BWs... seriously people are going to be having a hard time deciding what to shoot at in the one turn they get ti shoot with

Especially considering that you can fill 3 slots with trukks now, as burnaz, tank bustaz and flash gits got the option to take them. Not to mention the metric ton of buggies you can put into your fast attack slot now. When two dozen AV10 vehicles come barreling straight at you, some are bound to survive. Using the void shield generator or ADL to mitigate first turn shooting will also go a long way, while I also like the idea of bike meks simply hiding behind a pair of trukks.

 Vapordrago88 wrote:

Solar Shock wrote:

12 boys is what roughly 72 pts with extras and a trukk, whats that less than 120 pts?

Without a nob yes, but i'm not sure i want to field them without one...

Pulls up the cost to around 150

Both nob upgrade and trukk have been confirmed to have become cheaper. I don't know by how much though.

 nflagey wrote:
Also, the Lukky Stikk was *NOT* listed as a Waaagh Banner from what I can read in the "rumors thread" ... so, could we please have confirmation?

When someone asked whether the +1WS from lukky stikk stacks with Waaagh! banners, he said that it explicitly doesn't because it's a Waaagh! banner itself. Fluff-wise, the Lukky Stikk is Thrakka's Waagh! banner that used to be held by the grot accompanying him, before Thrakka accidentally sat on him.

ghaz doesn't accidentally kill, he planned it out!

 Gratlugg wrote:
How are people feeling about the mini-Meks? Are they there to make our transports more durable? Should you just take them for killsaws?

Depends on cost. I think Mel said they were 25 points plus 30 for a killsaw; at that price there's no way are they worth it. For 15-20 points they are a reasonable method of buffing a battlewagon. If they come with a rokkit, I'd pay 20-25 points or up to 45 or so with a killsaw.

A huge downgrade from the 15-point no-brainer meks with their 4+ repair rolls in the last codex, but they were pretty powerful.

Thanks Jidmah,
Yeh i wasn't sure of the meka dreads HP point conversion (as its not in IA8), but yeh 5 HP points is rather brutal. Seems i have need to convert myself some morkanaughts! i think il stick a couple meks into them, or does that seem overkill with IWND? I suppose il have to play test it.

Its a damn shame there not assault vehicles, because id have loved to hide some nobs or a nasty unit inside, purely for a fluffy warboss bursting out of his big robot to bust some skulls! But i can live without i suppose

I think as long as your smart with lukky stixx then you can't really fail it by accident. I will assume the re-rolls account across the whole turn. so you can simply use it depedant on the situation.

out of assault? gona get shot up? save it for those 2+ saves.

In a challenge? use it to help try max your chance of IDing with the wompa. else your gona need it for the FNP saves. if you get the ID then you most likely wont need to make any saves as your challenger is a little headless atm.

obviously the lower the roll needed anyway the less likely you are to fail. a 2+ re-roll is pretty damn reliable (1/36 of a double 1). so you can simply be aware of it. Plus im sure after some play testing you will get a better feeling of what your boss is needing to re-roll.

I think a bike mek with KFF will be the most potent way to deliver KFF saves to vehicles, as you can most definitely squeeze the bike inbetween 4 vehicles at the centre point, while still maintaining a nice LOS block to him. He also has the ability to turbo boost so you can divert him away to another unit if really needed. that OS ork boys on the obj about to get shot up? a zip over and theres a nice KFF save.

What are your guys thoughts of lil meks in trukks? i personally am not sure its worth it (unless your bringing the lil mek purely for the killsaw), as when a trukk is getting shot down it usually goes down or will be down next turn regardless of restoring that HP - ignoring situations where your KFF gods are smiling. Whereas a BW tend to stick it out a little longer. plenty of times the KFF saves have allowed it to last out a turn. so IWND and the little meks become useful.

What are your thoughts on kans? doesn't seem like much has changed bar the panic (which is pretty negated in a dred list) and the squad sizes.

Solar Shock wrote:
What are your thoughts on kans? doesn't seem like much has changed bar the panic (which is pretty negated in a dred list) and the squad sizes.

Apparently, their cost has increased by 25%, but they come with the big shoota included. I assume that means they are 50 points base compared to the old 35 points+weapon.

Try this:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/d/Dred_Mob.pdf

I think the wording of the Stikk is reroll any to hit, to wound or save dice. So no rerolling FNP.

Added Waaagh! Ghazghkull to first post.

ooooh waaagh ghazy!!! thank you J!

 Jidmah wrote:
Try this:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/d/Dred_Mob.pdf

OOooooo very nice liking this list, super manageable compared to IA8 book!

So now ive reached a dilemma, I need/think i should bring a HQ from the dread mob list, as it will allow my 3 deff dreds to be troops. question is; How should I handle the changes to the ork codex? as the big mek for example is referenced to the old(soon to be) dex, and as of this would have the old KFF etc... but then he also cant take a bike. So would it be reasonable to state that I will use the rules for the big mek as per this new dex. That way all the rules would stay consistent? Plus im not gaining any advantage that I can see; other than access to the dred mob lists.

Also, if i was to use the latest rules, how does the painboss measure up? with cybork bodies now being a 6+ FNP he no longer has a 5+ invun and his (5+)FNP. he simply has his 6+/5+FNP, which is rather diminished. Plus his ability to give cybork to a squad of troop boys so (6+ FNP) is a little meh :/

Mek Boss Buzzgob sounds awesome, i have a wicked conversion in mind i could do for him (think Doc Octopus / MGS Laughing Octopus), but he has the special rule where if he is included in a dread army he has to be the warlord. He then gains the ability that dreds within 6" are OS(basically), which is rather useless as if I brought dreds they would be OS as id be within the standard FOC?

Forgeworld is pretty fast with their updates, so I'd just wait and see.

I doubt that bik meks would be able to take bikes though, considering that bikes are pretty much the polar opposite to walkers.

 koooaei wrote:
Depends on how much it costs. If your warboss is in a challenge vs a worthy opponent, he's dead anywayz both with or without a stix. It might probably be used for FNP rerolls though. Besides, it's important how it works. If you reroll one at a time - it's a zero-risk relic. If you have to say: I'll reroll 3 dice than it's risky.

And a turn is both your and enemy turn?

Yep, unfortunately, once again warbosses should avoid a good fight vs beatsticks.

Actually something I just thought of, the wording of the lucky stikk will need to be checked because if it just says "turn" and not specifically "game turn" than according to the rule book you must fail three rerolls in a player turn.

 Madcat87 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Depends on how much it costs. If your warboss is in a challenge vs a worthy opponent, he's dead anywayz both with or without a stix. It might probably be used for FNP rerolls though. Besides, it's important how it works. If you reroll one at a time - it's a zero-risk relic. If you have to say: I'll reroll 3 dice than it's risky.

And a turn is both your and enemy turn?

Yep, unfortunately, once again warbosses should avoid a good fight vs beatsticks.

Actually something I just thought of, the wording of the lucky stikk will need to be checked because if it just says "turn" and not specifically "game turn" than according to the rule book you must fail three rerolls in a player turn.

so your suggesting it could be 3 in my turn and 3 in the opponents turn? that would be pretty crazy.


With the new relics and the 4+ KFF not being a replacement....

Big mek - 4++ KFF, Mega armour, SAG
With an artillery unit:

So thats a big mek with T7, 2+, 4++,with a unit of artillery that can technically move and shoot (was that changed in 7th ed anyway). Just now need to pick the artillery that has the most synergy with the SAG? bubble chucka? for massive amounts of large blasts?

That would be a KMK, since it's also high strength AP2 shooting. The bubblechukka is pretty much worthless in every aspect.

Keep in mind that anything that somehow connects to the unit in close combat will almost be guaranteed to wipe it out, and you'll lose a 200 point HQ in the process.

 Jidmah wrote:
That would be a KMK, since it's also high strength AP2 shooting. The bubblechukka is pretty much worthless in every aspect.

Keep in mind that anything that somehow connects to the unit in close combat will almost be guaranteed to wipe it out, and you'll lose a 200 point HQ in the process.

yeh was thinking that,at least any DS'ers would receive a nice big welcome shot trying to work on a mek heavy idea, with main aim being shooting. Flash gitz, weirdboy and an MA-Mek with a KFF? hope for teleport and appear on the flanks for some gun blitzing Perhaps some big trakks as gun platforms for units? as there 12 on front, with a deffrolla thats 14, or is it the ram which increases armour value by 2? (not even sure its an actual thing? - was in the rumours thread )

With the new supplement relics, at 145pts we get:

Warboss with Claw and 'eavy armor
Da Lucky Stikk
Big Bosspole

Trow him in a 30 boys strong unit, Fearless and WS5...

How nice for GW to make us pay for another codex to have those interesting setups...

Hell, i could even run a 20 'ard boys unit with him on a BW...

Can't mix relics from codex and supplement.

 Jidmah wrote:
Can't mix relics from codex and supplement.

Ok then... still the same minus the reroll shenanigans for the warboss, making it 5 points cheaper, even better!

Btw is that a supplement wide rule? i'm fairly new to supplements and 7th in general, would be nice to know their limitations

That's the case with all supplements.

Now it seems to be even more restrictive, since you apparently can't take the supplement specials with anything other than the detachments and formations from that supplement, so you can't even have a combined arms detachment with the new special rules, relics and warlord traits.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
That's the case with all supplements.

Now it seems to be even more restrictive, since you apparently can't take the supplement specials with anything other than the detachments and formations from that supplement, so you can't even have a combined arms detachment with the new special rules, relics and warlord traits.

So long with the "unbound" "forge a narrative" "field whatever you like" approach...

 Perfect Organism wrote:
That's the case with all supplements.

Now it seems to be even more restrictive, since you apparently can't take the supplement specials with anything other than the detachments and formations from that supplement, so you can't even have a combined arms detachment with the new special rules, relics and warlord traits.

I thought I could do like, one CAD from the main book with 1 HQ and 2 troops, then a CAD from the supplement with its 1 HQ and 2 troops?

 streamdragon wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
That's the case with all supplements.

Now it seems to be even more restrictive, since you apparently can't take the supplement specials with anything other than the detachments and formations from that supplement, so you can't even have a combined arms detachment with the new special rules, relics and warlord traits.

I thought I could do like, one CAD from the main book with 1 HQ and 2 troops, then a CAD from the supplement with its 1 HQ and 2 troops?

I believe this is correct, what previous posters meant to say is that you can't put a relic from one codex or supplement on a character from another; I.E., you can't mix the Big Bosspole or whatever and Lucky Stixx on the same Warboss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of codex and supplement mixing, if anything, I'd have my warboss and most of my army from Codex Orks and try to take a second detachment of Waaagh! Ghazgkull using a Big Mek on bike with the 4++ KFF relic. Suddenly, all my trukks and looted wagons start looking a little more survivable.

For the record the Lucky Stikk reroll thing would be very easy to not have be a problem. 3 rerolls a turn? ok, is the boss going to die? no? only reroll 2 saves. Is he going to die anyway? reroll all 3.

Especially if im facing a nasty opponent i have very good odds to kill, if im still alive without the rerolls i will hang onto them for the reroll on to hit or to wound and never use the 3rd no matter how good the odds are for me.

 Gratlugg wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
That's the case with all supplements.

Now it seems to be even more restrictive, since you apparently can't take the supplement specials with anything other than the detachments and formations from that supplement, so you can't even have a combined arms detachment with the new special rules, relics and warlord traits.

I thought I could do like, one CAD from the main book with 1 HQ and 2 troops, then a CAD from the supplement with its 1 HQ and 2 troops?

I believe this is correct, what previous posters meant to say is that you can't put a relic from one codex or supplement on a character from another; I.E., you can't mix the Big Bosspole or whatever and Lucky Stixx on the same Warboss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of codex and supplement mixing, if anything, I'd have my warboss and most of my army from Codex Orks and try to take a second detachment of Waaagh! Ghazgkull using a Big Mek on bike with the 4++ KFF relic. Suddenly, all my trukks and looted wagons start looking a little more survivable.

That should come in around 150 pts... nice

If I want to push my points further I could take a second bike unit with normal big mek on bike + KFF to cover the wagon wall when the lighter vehicles split off, but I generally don't think BW's are in much danger now that they can purchase grot riggers and carry mini meks (from burnas or HQs).

If i were to mingle a big mek with sag into artillery it would have to be KMK spam. Yeah its blasts vs pi plates but bubblechucka is only effective enough to bring as a shock unit - as in the shock of HOLY CRAP YOURE SHOOTING 5 PI PLATES AT ME?!?! lol. They will most likely still wreck infantry, but nothing else barring damn good dice (since the AP needed would also need 5s or 6s to wound)

Can you take a painboy with boas pole and warboss with stick and put them in to a unit of ard boyz?

 darkflame182 wrote:
Can you take a painboy with boas pole and warboss with stick and put them in to a unit of ard boyz?

I don't know if pain boyz can purchase boss poles, but both are IC's and can be attached to any unit they want to be like normal.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
That's the case with all supplements.

Now it seems to be even more restrictive, since you apparently can't take the supplement specials with anything other than the detachments and formations from that supplement, so you can't even have a combined arms detachment with the new special rules, relics and warlord traits.

I thought I could do like, one CAD from the main book with 1 HQ and 2 troops, then a CAD from the supplement with its 1 HQ and 2 troops?

It seems to say 'a detachment or formation from this book' in the blurry text from the supplement I've seen. To me, that would mean the supplement rules can only ever be used with it's own detachments and formations. Whether there is a detachment in there which is a decent substitute for the CAD remains to be seen, but from what I've seen of the supplement I'm not hopeful.

So since Nobz got worse, warbosses/warbikers got cheaper, how about a 4 hoursemen build ?

I was thinking go Double primary FoC, 3xbosses, 1 painboy, 1 warbiker unit w/ PK nob. What we don't have in survivability we make up for in volume... And you have 3 bosses & 1 PK Nob to Krunch things.

Here is something else cute. Bikes are relentless, Meks can take Bikes. Meks can also take SAG and/or KFF...and a bike.

Shock Attack Gun on a Bike CAN FIRE and then ASSAULT! I don't know why that blows my mind, but that's just crazy to me. Probably because the SAG can be pretty powerful, and on a bike it has a ton of mobility. If you give up the KFF, you can put 2 SAG Meks, a Warboss and a Painboy into a 15 strong bike unit for a Battleforged list. That's a very shooty, very deadly and pretty darn durable unit.