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Tanksbustas should get in there somewhere. With their reduced cost, fixed Glory Hogs, standard melta bombs, and AP3 melee weapons along with S8 shooting enmasse, they are easily one of the most buffed units in the book.

Mek guns will do the job. The list now - without troops is around 1500+. Adding a tankabuster squad leaves too little for troops.

 felixcat wrote:

Looking through the thread, I think we need to just max out the better units. If I was building a list I would start with this:
zagstruk ( cheap and great warlord trait )
2 painboy bikers ( for warbikerz mobs)
2x 3 meganobs in BWs (cover those advancing bikes)
troops (undecided)
2x 15 waerbikerz, nob klaw
3x2 mek guns (undecided on mix)
I'm sure this would be a good basis for a 1850 list. Just need someone to flesh it out properly.

Problem I've been running into is our troops.... They suck. I usually pay the gretchin tax (they did get cheaper), or just run unbound.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is what I ran the other day against a friends tournament list. It did well.

Warboss: Warbike; Power Klaw; Da Finkin' Kap. 120
Warboss: Power Klaw; Warboss Gazbag's Blitzbike. 120
Warboss: Warbike; Power Klaw; Da Lucky Stikk. 135
Painboy: Warbike. 75

9 Warbikers: Nob (Big Choppa). 177

5 Mek Gunz: 5× Kustom Mega-Kannon. 150
5 Mek Gunz: 5× Kustom Mega-Kannon. 150
5 Mek Gunz: 5× Kustom Mega-Kannon. 150
10 Lootas 140
10 Lootas 140
10 Lootas 140

1,497 points

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

Stashgordon36 wrote:
Just played my first 2 games today with the new codex vs IG and Necrons... Speed Freaks are going to be a lot of fun. The new Waaagh! Is a total game changer. I was in cc with 80% of my army round 2 in both games.

Plus even though I hate the new ramshackle its way better than getting blown up 2/3 of the time. I lost 2 out of 12 trukks to explode results over 2 games and just 1 of 4 wagons.

The new mob rule isnt that bad. I missed a few checks but never lost a lot of boyz because of it. There is light at the end of the tunnel for those of us that feel the need for speed.

Beat Necrons 11 to 4 in 5 turns.
Beat IG 23 to 3. Tabled him turn 6.

Good to hear! Could you maybe state what your list was, and what lists they were running (roughly speaking)?

It's good to get some actual in-game info, anecdotal though it may be.

For all of you coming here to complain about the changes: We all sympathise with your position, being Ork players ourselves, but as valid as your complaints are, this thread is not the place for them. This thread is about brainstorming tactics using the NEW Ork codex, not lamenting the old one.

If you've come here with the sole intention of complaining about what changed, save your time and don't post. No one here who is actually here to discuss tactics will read it anyway, I know I've long since blocked out the vast majority of complaints as white noise.

Anyway, I had a great time today with a unit of 17 'ard boyz with a painboy and a warboss in mega armour with the lucky stick, all rolling in a battlewagon. That unit just did not die.

Here was the 1500 point List I used:

HQ
Warboss - Mega Armor, Bosspole, Cybork, Lucky Stikk

Elites
Mega Nobz (3) - Kombi Skorchas x3, Battlewagon w/ ram and rockits
Burna Boyz (8) - Trukk w/ ram and rockits
Nob Squad (5) - PK, BP, Big Choppa x2, Eavy Armor, Battlewagon w/ ram and rockits

Troops
Trukk Boyz - Nob, PK, BP, Trukk w / ram and rockits
Trukk Boyz - Nob, PK, BP, Trukk w / ram and rockits
Trukk Boyz - Nob, PK, BP, Trukk w / ram and rockits

Fast Attack
Warbikes (3) - No Upgrades

Heavy Support
Flash Gitz (5) - Trukk w/ ram and rockits
Kannon
Kannon

Total Points 1499


The IG player had 3 Russes (2 Plasma, 1 Vanquisher), 2 Chimeras full of melta vets, Command Squad with Master of Ordiance, Wyvern, and a few platoons.

The Necron Player had 2 Stalkers, 1 Ghost Arch, Around 30 warriors, 2 Flying Crouissants, Deathmarks and 2 Necron Lords

How'd you handle the Wyvern? That thing really worries me when it comes to playing my orks.

I'll try this for my first game, since my opponent insists on running his tzeench daemons:

Combined Arms Detachment 1:
Warboss, PK, BP, 'eavy armor, Da Lukky Stikk 114
Painboy, BP, Grot Orderly 60
14 Tankbustaz, Nob, BP 197
19 Boyz, Nob, BP 129
20 Boyz, Nob, BP, PK 160
Blitza Bommer 135
Blitza Bommer 135

Combined Arms Detachment 2:
Painboy, BP 55
Painboy, BP 55
19 Boyz, Nob, BP, PK 154
19 Boyz, Nob, BP, PK 154

BW Formation from Waagh! Ghazghkull 650
5x Battlewagon, Ram, Boarding Planks

Total 1998

To make live harder for my opponent, I'm going to make all five battlewagons equally threattening. One has the warboss and a unit of boyz, two have boyz with FNP, one has just a regular unit of boyz (first one of the column), and one has tankbustaz with a painboy. Blitza bommers are there for two reasons: First, I'm hoping that they can take out the soulgrinders that have given me troubble in the past, second, I really want to see if they are viable now.

Played a game yesterday against Crimson Fists led by Pedro:

Warboss
Bike, PK, BP Lucky Stikkz

Pain Boy
Bike

Weird Boy ML2
(got Ead Banger and the S10 Ap2 Beam Power)

5 Nob Bikerz
2 PK
2 BC

3 Manz
1 BP
Trukk boarding plank

30 Boyz
Nob PK BP

30 Ard Boyz
Nob PK BP


15 Lootaz
BW Grot Riggerz

10 Flash Gitz
BW Grot Riggerz

He had:
Pedro
5 Honor Guard with a mix of Power Mauls, Relic Blade and Power Axe

4 Units of 9 tactical Marines in Rhions, 2 flamer 2 plasma

5 Las Cannon Devastators

3 Grav Centurions

2x Storm Talons and 1x Storm Raven in that formation that gives them Strafing Run

ADL


The Nob Bikers were excellent, better even than in 6th using the old dex. They were basically Turbo-boosting onto objectives while simultaneously moving into the back lines to get into charge range. 3+ cover on them was great, and I didn't miss the 5++ at all (and didn't mind the price reduction for not taking Cyborks)

Manz did a great job too, the boarding ramp made all the difference to them charging into cover. Having a squad leader and being able to take boss poles was great too. They failed one leadership test and took 2 S4 hits, one wounded and I made the save.

The changes to challenges make Nobz in the Boyz mobs really worth while, they did a lot of damage every turn.

New Waaagh was also great, the Boyz got into combat no problem on foot.

Ard Boyz were worth it, I don't know that I'd always run 30 of them but they really hung around all game and shrugged off a lot of bolter fire and flamer hits.

The Weirdboy... I feel like he's a powderkeg. there's some real potential there, but he didn't manage to do much other than strip a few hull points off some rhinos. Psychic powers are just tough to get off without rolling a double. In a more competitive game I'd drop him for a Big Mek or a 2nd Painboy, but I will keep trying to run him just to see if he will live up to his potential.

Speaking of Painboy, great unit, same price as he used to be, but now more survivable with the IC special rules, made a bunch of Look Out Sirs on him that were pretty crucial.

I didn't feel disappointed by anything overall. The changes to the game gave them a boost overall, especially the ubiquitous cover saves, that kept my lads alive against the initial onslaught of shooting.

 Hoitash wrote:
How'd you handle the Wyvern? That thing really worries me when it comes to playing my orks.

If I failed a charge that thing made me pay. It probably killed 15 to 20 boys in all. Wyverns are solid at clearing objectives for IG in general. Against boyz theu are phenomenal lol

Stashgordon36 wrote:

 Hoitash wrote:
How'd you handle the Wyvern? That thing really worries me when it comes to playing my orks.

If I failed a charge that thing made me pay. It probably killed 15 to 20 boys in all. Wyverns are solid at clearing objectives for IG in general. Against boyz theu are phenomenal lol

Charge or have the snotlings beaten out of you. Sounds like a proper ork strategy .

Any helpful tips for facing IG in general?

I played a game verse my friends white scars all bikes scout first turn build. I played 3 warbosses, 1 painboy, 14 warbikes, 2 BW's that had 4 MegaNobz (all with Kill saws), and 5 outflanking big shoota buggies.

I lost that game, but mainly because I was told (not by my friend) that you couldn't charge at all turn 1. If it wasn't for that my warbikker mob would have killed his bikes turn one, and my mega nobz would have eaten what was left.

It's hard to state how I feel about the game because of me not charging turn 1. I felt out classed the entire game, except in CC, where we excel.

Get first turn lol. But besides that Ive had a lot of success vs IG using flamer units and PKs. Get close then cook n krump. If you bring even our best guns youre still going to get out shot. Might as well go for close quarters combat, its what we are good at. Plus at close range those Russ pie plates always seem to gravitate to their own troops.

Stashgordon36 wrote:
Get first turn lol. But besides that Ive had a lot of success vs IG using flamer units and PKs. Get close then cook n krump. If you bring even our best guns youre still going to get out shot. Might as well go for close quarters combat, its what we are good at. Plus at close range those Russ pie plates always seem to gravitate to their own troops.

funny you mention "get first turn". everytime I've played my friend, I've won first turn, but he's managed to steal the iniative... EVERY SINGLE TIME SO FAR.... uggghhh

Stashgordon36 wrote:
Get first turn lol. But besides that Ive had a lot of success vs IG using flamer units and PKs. Get close then cook n krump. If you bring even our best guns youre still going to get out shot. Might as well go for close quarters combat, its what we are good at. Plus at close range those Russ pie plates always seem to gravitate to their own troops.

I was curious how Burnas would fair now that Lootas aren't auto Elite Slot-users.

Turn their own weapons against them? How very Blood Axe of you.

I love it

I'm actually really excited about the new dreadmob formation here, but I dunno if I should actually get the Supplement too for just that one formation...

Do I actually need the Supplement, or can I just go with what you wrote of it Jidmah?

 big mek crazygit wrote:
I'm actually really excited about the new dreadmob formation here, but I dunno if I should actually get the Supplement too for just that one formation...

Do I actually need the Supplement, or can I just go with what you wrote of it Jidmah?

I think the new supplement has 7 formations. But i'm prerty sure you can get the dredd mob for free of forgeworld.

burnas with the pts decrease are great now too...

Im having much more trouble deciding what elite units I want to take then HS...

which says something awesome about this codex when litereally, EVERY SINGLE SLOT is full of units that I want to take...

the only slot where there isnt much thinking is troops... and only because I can take 9+ (even with most tournament 1+1 detachment rules) troops so I wont be short on boyz or grots.


manz are just going to wreck face...


I will likely max out on 3 man manz squads, artillary+ warboss/mek in MA, and use the BW's from the manz for my 20 strong mob of boys, and the trukks from theboyz for my mans.

rest of pts probably in bikes/stormboys to taste.

my opponent will have a fun time deciding what to kill, provided he has the luxury of first turn... otherwise hes prety much SOL

"hmmm... do i kill the MAN's in their trukk who will walk through my army, those BW's full of boyz that can walk through my army, the bikers, or wast pts shooting at grot artillary thats shooting my army up."


no real obvious choice there for target priortiy, easy to overwhelm the enemy simply because everything I take is in combat turn 2 (or 1!!) and everything can conceivably hurt anything... even the boyz with a mere PK nob can hurt lots of stuff.

burnas with points decrease? is that the suppliment thing? they actually went UP a point in the new codex vs old codex

So is there anything ruelswise beyond the 7 new formation in the Second Codex ?

I rescind my previous statement of saying a Lucky Stikk Mega-Tellyporta Big Mek would be best with Flash Gitz. After reviewing the codex again I have to say Tankbustas would be waaaaayyy better. S8 compliments both the Mek's S8 weapons, and they can threaten anything with their weapons. Not to mention this unit could easily take on a Knight and win (especially with the +1 WS). Tankbustas are the best we got for fighting Knights, and a rerolling 2+ save could tank pretty much every wound from the annoying double battlecannon shots.

Even though Flash Gitz saw a huge buff I still don't think they're useful. S5 is just that lame strength that is barely enough to hurt MEQs and not enough to hurt vehicles. If they were S6 they maybe would be useful but a 6+ save hurts too much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I don't have the rulebook but does slow and purposeful now say anything about counting as stationary? I'm wondering if gitfinda would always work with a slow and purposeful model but I'm inclined to say no.

i personally dont think flash gitz got buffed. they got what they needed - a price cut, a more reliable gun - but in the process lost their ignores cover and their armor. Thats pretty huge imo. Even if theyre nobz, big deal T4 models are easy to paste. They got a side-buff, making them easier to field but significantly less threatening and easier to clean off.

Mek Gunz will cause just as much if not more damage for not even half the cost, and further away.

Have to admit i like the tellyporta tankbusta idea. I outta try that.

 felixcat wrote:

Looking through the thread, I think we need to just max out the better units. If I was building a list I would start with this:
zagstruk ( cheap and great warlord trait )
2 painboy bikers ( for warbikerz mobs)
2x 3 meganobs in BWs (cover those advancing bikes)
troops (undecided)
2x 15 waerbikerz, nob klaw
3x2 mek guns (undecided on mix)
I'm sure this would be a good basis for a 1850 list. Just need someone to flesh it out properly.

The list I built is similar to yours:

KFF on Gazbags Bike
Painboss on Bike
Warbles with Lucky Stikk on Bike
All go with 1 of two full size mob of Bikerz. The second mob is there for when the first takes 10+ casualties. Switch out the 3 HQ's to a fresh Mob of 15 and the remainder of the first mob becomes a harassment/distraction/backfield objective taker.

Moving up the field with them is 6 Killsaw MegaNobz with Grotsnik in a BW with RR and 4 Rokkits and a Zzap gun. Move 12" and stay with the KFF Mek on bike. Multi-assault everything possible on the second turn while bikes provides covering fire. No problem if you lose a Str and attack to disorganized assault, killsaws are Armorblam! and the Doc's Rampage rule guarantees you that attack back and most likely at least one more.

Max out the 4 remaining slots with Single Rokkit DeffKoptas: immune to Ld tests, fast, 2 wounds, Jink, powerful weapons. We play the new missions with the contanstly changing objectives so speed is king, esp when all you have to do sometimes is Turbo-boost 3 units!

4 min squads of Grots, maybe in bastions with some inside and some on top firing a Quad gun.

And some mix big guns. I already have the old kind and they got cheaper so why not?

Finally, got to go with the Stompa and if they won't let me use it, it'll be a Gorkanut or Morkanut. No way I'm buying another $100 point model this year!

 herpguy wrote:
I rescind my previous statement of saying a Lucky Stikk Mega-Tellyporta Big Mek would be best with Flash Gitz. After reviewing the codex again I have to say Tankbustas would be waaaaayyy better. S8 compliments both the Mek's S8 weapons, and they can threaten anything with their weapons. Not to mention this unit could easily take on a Knight and win (especially with the +1 WS). Tankbustas are the best we got for fighting Knights, and a rerolling 2+ save could tank pretty much every wound from the annoying double battlecannon shots.

Even though Flash Gitz saw a huge buff I still don't think they're useful. S5 is just that lame strength that is barely enough to hurt MEQs and not enough to hurt vehicles. If they were S6 they maybe would be useful but a 6+ save hurts too much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I don't have the rulebook but does slow and purposeful now say anything about counting as stationary? I'm wondering if gitfinda would always work with a slow and purposeful model but I'm inclined to say no.

Im pretty sure mega armor lost slow and purposeful

With the change to Painboyz I'm considering dropping my Nob Bikers and taking a WB, Painboy and normal Warbikez with a PK nob.

You get more ablative wounds for considerably less points (2 normal biker bieng 9 points cheaper than a Nob Biker) and you get a discount Nob Biker in the unit to boot (53 points with a PK vs 70 for one in a Nobz Mob).

You loose a bit of close combat punch, but realistically you just want to win that first round of combat by a slim margin and remain locked rather than just bowl through the enemy and be caught in shooting the next turn.

Mega Armour still gratns Slow and Purposeful, its right on the entry for Mega Armour.

S&P only means you count as staying stationary for certain weapons (Heavy, Salvo and Ordnance I believe) so using it with a gitfinda has limit use as most HQs (I.E. Things that can get gitfindas), can't get heavy weapons and Mega Armour.

I played this list against Fire Prism/Wave Serpent Eldar today. These are just my first impressions from my first game.

Like always, Powerklaws ruled the day.
Battlewagons are still awesome, especially with an embarked Mek and It Will Not Die.
Boarding Planks and 'Ere We Go ensured successful assaults every time.
Stikkbomz were an unexpected boon to glance a skimmer to death after charging into terrain but before my PK could blow the thing up in my face.
Painboys were a great force multiplier.
MegaArmour and Trukk did not do well against Eldar shooting.
Tankbustas were OK. Not enough shots at BS2 to consistently threaten jinking skimmers.
Even twin-linked, BS2 Rokkitkoptas had worse shooting than I remember from 5th.

I will try to finish the batrep this week.

Pipealley....a unit of MANz toting SIX killsaws? Geez the point sink is strong with that.
I dont see any point to adding more than 1 per 3 MANz. Any vehicle even land raiders are made short work from 2-3 PK Nobz, the lone killsaw is just to guarantee the last bit finally dies. Theys expensive to just add an entire unit worth.

Probably the biggest thing im stoked for when it comes to wagon lists is the addition of Meks in any unit wielding a killsaw. Yeah, hes S7 on the charge since hes a boy so he wont paste any T4 models with an armor save, but he'll still pen their armor and wreck vehicles. Additional powerklaw in a unit of boyz without requiring an HQ is just sexy soundin. Even if its a tad more expensive (45pts for a Boy vs the 46/50 for a Nob without/with 'Ard Armor)
Armorbane makes up for the -2 strength on the charge vs a Nob, so he'll still wreck vehicles. This is why i always viewed Koptas with Buzzsaws to be a total waste of points - S7 isnt going to kill anything we cant kill with just weight of fire anyway. The additional D6 pen is just what was needed...too bad koptas didnt get Killsaws >.<

Securing Tactical Objectives seems to be the thing that everyone is overlooking when they talk about this dex. The thing I noticed is that the book has a lot of options for mobile assault at all 3 ranges (close, medium, long) in every section (HQ down through HS).

I won my first game pound for pound on points, and that was very early on when I only killed 2 units, but grabbed several objectives, successfully cast psychic powers etc. As I started to bully up on my opponent and go for the throat I found myself not scoring as much while he was still focusing on scoring and the game ended up very close (15 to 11).

Most competitive play is moving towards Malestrom missions and I think this book shines on those.

 felixcat wrote:

Looking through the thread, I think we need to just max out the better units. If I was building a list I would start with this:
zagstruk ( cheap and great warlord trait )
2 painboy bikers ( for warbikerz mobs)
2x 3 meganobs in BWs (cover those advancing bikes)
troops (undecided)
2x 15 waerbikerz, nob klaw
3x2 mek guns (undecided on mix)
I'm sure this would be a good basis for a 1850 list. Just need someone to flesh it out properly.

I have been toying with this 2000 pts. list, which seems to be following your line of thought, though no Meganobz in a Battlewagon:

HQ -

1 Painboy + Warbike = 75 pts.
1 Painboy + Warbike = 75 pts.

1 Mek + Killsaw = 45 pts.
1 Mek + Killsaw = 45 pts.

Troops -

29 Ork Boyz
1 Ork Boyz Nob + Bosspole, Power Klaw = 220 pts.
29 Ork Boyz
1 Ork Boyz Nob + Bosspole, Power Klaw = 220 pts.
29 Ork Boyz
1 Ork Boyz Nob + Bosspole, Power Klaw = 220 pts.

Fast Attack -

14 Warbikers
1 Warbikers Nob + Bosspole, Power Klaw = 310 pts.
14 Warbikers
1 Warbikers Nob + Bosspole, Power Klaw = 310 pts.

Heavy Support -

5 Kustom Mega-Kannons = 150 pts.
5 Kustom Mega-Kannons = 150 pts.
5 Kustom Mega-Kannons = 150 pts.

Total Army = 1970 pts.

The only things that make me unsure are the lack of any saves beyond their t-shirt for the Ork Boyz and the lack of a Warboss for Waaagh!. As far as the Ork Boyz and their t-shirt saves, I hope the Warbikers with the Painboys would absorb enough dakka to give the Ork Boyz a break.

I feel like I should put this in the army lists section, but since we're kind of brainstorming ideas...

In the interest of trying to make the codex work I'm trying more radical ideas. The troops sections is the only place I'm really struggling to make work. I'm almost at the point were I want to just by 2 units of grots and hide them or *gasp* unbound and skip troops entirely.

Eavy armour boys in trukks, yes/no?

I'm wondering if the extra cost is worth it to offset the losses from exploding trukks and having to take wounds from mob rule.

Not having a WAAAAGH! isnt the end of the world though. Its a round of shooting you give up, which then again for slugga boyz big deal, for a possible ~3" movement into a charge.
Sure its useful but its not going to be the win-or-lose decider most of the time (famous last words?)