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What would be more useful in a Speed Freaks list utilizing Blitz Brigade? A unit of five Deffkoptas (with either Rokkit Launchas or Kustom Mega Blastas) or two units of three Warbuggies?

what are y'all running in a blitz brigade??

I'm thinking about starting one to have some other way of playing, other than moving 180 models around....

Probably 3 units of boyz and 2 tankbustas followed by a MANz missile and a warbiker squad.

I play at 2k so i might be able to do that, havent actually tried to pull the list lol

 zachwho wrote:
what are y'all running in a blitz brigade??

I'm thinking about starting one to have some other way of playing, other than moving 180 models around....

I'm currently running 2 units of 20 Boyz with Nob w/ PK and BP, 2 units of 3 MANz with BP and 1 unit of 10 Tankbustas, with their Wagon having a Mek and moar Rokkits

Tempted to try out Vineheart01's idea though..

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Probably 3 units of boyz and 2 tankbustas followed by a MANz missile and a warbiker squad.

I play at 2k so i might be able to do that, havent actually tried to pull the list lol

I wouldn't include the warbikers. It gives thunderfire cannons (one of the most popular units out there) a target they wouldn't otherwise have, and all other firepower that can't hurt the wall of armor is going into those warbikers. I would add Mek Gunz with a couple of traktor Kannons for anti air. If the options are deff koptas or warbuggies, the answer is warbuggies, because it adds more armor to the list. The one advantage with Deff Koptas is that you can scout them alongside the battlewagons to give them cover from shots targeting their side armor.

If going with DeffKoptas, id head in this direction...


CAD 1

Warlord; Bosspole; Warbike; Power Klaw; Da Finkin' Kap
Big Mek; Killsaw; Kustom Force Field; Warbike
Painboy; 'Urty Syringe; Dok's Tools; Warbike; Feel No Pain

3 Deffkoptas; Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha x3; Buzzsaw x1; Hammer of Wrath; Hit & Run; Jink; Relentless; Scout

2 Units of 19 Slugga Boyz and 1 Boss Nob with Bosspole, Shoota and Power Klaw

This CAD's HQ's and Deffkopta's form a unit and provide KFF to as many BW's as possible. They Scout move with the BW's.


CAD 2

Warboss in Mega Armour; Bosspole; Da Lucky Stick

4 Meganobz

2 Units of 19 Slugga Boyz and 1 Boss Nob with Bosspole, Shoota and Power Klaw

The purpose of this CAD is to provide a hard hitting core, capable of taking on nastiness (Im looking at you Knights). This MANZ unit has WS5 AND a MAWB. I can save some points here by dropping the MAWB...he is carrying his Lucky Stick though so Im hesitant to drop him - what would I replace him with?


Blitz Brigade Formation

4 Battlewagons; Rokkit Launcha x1; Reinforced Ram

1 Battlewagon; Rokkit Launcha x1; Reinforced Ram; Boarding Plank (MANZ ride here.)

Um....how exactly are thunderfire cannons a counter to warbikers? i have the SM codex, just not the army. The only mode that ignores cover doesnt pen our armor so its still a 4+ and FNP. Danger tests arent that big a deal either, we take a ton of them as it is anyway (often i have games where the entire unit makes a test for 2-3 turns because of the terrain layout forcing me to do so, or not use the bikers for 1-2 more turns going around crap)
Also the one that ignores cover is S5 so it wounds on a 4+.

With a small blast on any of the modes. Proper spacing, get 2 models at best.

Heavy flamers are a bigger issue than thunderfire.

i have alot of burna boys, I'd like to use them in the blitz brigade,
but I'm not sure what characters would supplement them best. I'd love to use a megaboss, but I'm losing the ability to overwatch. I'd also like to use maddok (love this guy) for his extra punch, fnp, and fearless.

but would like some input.

Personally i find the burnas to be the most useless unit in the codex. Tons of flamers sounds cool but unless you get a perfect positioning on your target, you wont kill many models with it. I never understood how the burnawagon even worked because if you move more than 6" you cant shoot and if you move less than 6" you probably arent in range - and nobody with half a brain is going to let that thing get close lol.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Um....how exactly are thunderfire cannons a counter to warbikers? i have the SM codex, just not the army. The only mode that ignores cover doesnt pen our armor so its still a 4+ and FNP. Danger tests arent that big a deal either, we take a ton of them as it is anyway (often i have games where the entire unit makes a test for 2-3 turns because of the terrain layout forcing me to do so, or not use the bikers for 1-2 more turns going around crap)
Also the one that ignores cover is S5 so it wounds on a 4+.

With a small blast on any of the modes. Proper spacing, get 2 models at best.

Heavy flamers are a bigger issue than thunderfire.

It would average 6-8 hits (possibly as many as 12) because it is Heavy 4 barrage. Wounding on 3's (surface det). So about 5 wounds. You save 3, and 1 more with FNP, so I guess you only lose one warbiker. Most marine armies like to include 2 of these, so you probably are dropping 3 warbikers a turn. Not near as bad as I expected.

I mainly play Tyranids, and TFC can demolish my squads easily, I wasn't thinking of Orks as particularly more resilient. I was wrong.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Personally i find the burnas to be the most useless unit in the codex. Tons of flamers sounds cool but unless you get a perfect positioning on your target, you wont kill many models with it. I never understood how the burnawagon even worked because if you move more than 6" you cant shoot and if you move less than 6" you probably arent in range - and nobody with half a brain is going to let that thing get close lol.

i used the burnawagon alot in 5th, there didn't seem to be as near as much speed then either. eldar and tau were a non issue then, with demons deepstriking, greyknights, drop pod, and blood angels being what i faced the most. and with the old kff, a wagon rush was pretty durable.

it was a devastating unit.

but i agree, the game is probably too fast now. the blitz brigade is still something i want to use, but I'll have to.find some better combos and list builds.

Should MANz have a Boss Pole in them? Currently running two squads of three with BP, both in Boarding Plank Wagons, but I don't think BP would be optimal as there are no characters or does the Boss Pole Nob become a character? Or would it be better to give them a Kombi-weapon of sorts?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Um....how exactly are thunderfire cannons a counter to warbikers? i have the SM codex, just not the army. The only mode that ignores cover doesnt pen our armor so its still a 4+ and FNP. Danger tests arent that big a deal either, we take a ton of them as it is anyway (often i have games where the entire unit makes a test for 2-3 turns because of the terrain layout forcing me to do so, or not use the bikers for 1-2 more turns going around crap)
Also the one that ignores cover is S5 so it wounds on a 4+.

With a small blast on any of the modes. Proper spacing, get 2 models at best.

Heavy flamers are a bigger issue than thunderfire.

speaking from experience, it's mostly due to the fact they can pile on wounds, as multiple barrage can move around and hit a few more guys than your expecting because of the multiple barrage stuff. even if you can only hit 2, if you roll a direct hit someone can possibly get a few more under the template.

oh im not denying it cant put wounds on them, but wtf cant?

My warbikers regularly face the gun barrels of the entire enemy team and usually come out with only 5-7 dead bikers. ~1600pts usually firing at them turn 1, 3+ jink and fnp is amazing. Ive only lost them once unexpectedly because of a REALLY bad melee luck on my part, not shooting.

Rereading the barrage rules apparently ive been doing it wrong with my lobbas lol. I was under the impression because of that chain-link blast template that it was basically a carpet bombing effect, not focused on the center blast and its edges Also missed the Hit! part letting you overlap...nice..
Still not THAT awesome since its a small blast against bikers. pretty much just as effective as our lobbas would be (wounding on 4s instead of 3s though if using the proper modes) and i still wouldnt be firing them at bikers, thats for infantry that they can reliably splat.

Frozocrone wrote:
Should MANz have a Boss Pole in them? Currently running two squads of three with BP, both in Boarding Plank Wagons, but I don't think BP would be optimal as there are no characters or does the Boss Pole Nob become a character? Or would it be better to give them a Kombi-weapon of sorts?

1 model in the MANZ unit is a character by default (boss nob) so yes, they should always have a bosspole. It's mainly for pinning tests but it can come in handy in combat as well.
The only kombi weapon that might be worth it is the scorcha, to thin out stuff before they slam into it.

Bosspole is mandatory imo, pinning tests as well as combat like sn0zcumb3r said.
As for the kombi weapon, i dont take any at all. Rokkits on a bs2 model....right...and Scorchas cant overwatch with SNP which is why i want them to begin with. Yes they can be fired for heavy damage but unless im right in your face i'd be worried im going to kill you out of assault range. Three scorchas will rarely do more damage than 12 powerklaws, especially if it doesnt pen their armor.

Oh ok, it looked like they didn't need it as there are only three in a unit, thanks guys

Considering Lootas/Mek gunz in my Speed Freaks list, thoughts? They would have to replace the Warbikers which I'm not too sure about..

Has anyone run the zagstruk formation yet?
I was just looking at it and I have ordered a box of stormboyz which ill combine with some other ork bits to make a 12-20ish models, and if I make 15; then I have the bare minimum for this formation.
I've heard about people running it as a largish group (30+ boys etc), but has anyone tried it much more bare bones?

What im thinking is;
5 Stormboyz
5 stormboyz
5-10 stormboyz Zag, nob + PK

What this gives to a list is 3 units that I can pretty much DS wherever needed to provide threats, now I know 5 orks with no Nob aint exactly scary nor hard to remove, but at 45 pts they seem incredibly well suited to forcing the opponent to focus his attentions elsewhere. For example bringing them in behind some guard heavy weapons teams or an aegis line manned by non-CC orientated units.
The opponent then has the choice of ignoring and getting charged next turn, or putting fire into them/charging them. With 3 units, and pref a comms relay to hopefully get all 3 in at once and at around 5 models I could potentially land bang smack mid their units, with Zags unit providing quite a nasty surprise should he be left to charge next turn.

Or, I can then also run this as 1 unit of 15 should I feel the army im going to face is best suited, perhaps an elitist army where I actually only need threaten 1-2 units rather than MSU's. However, I am thinking that maybe beefing up the squads just a tad, might actually yield greater results, say at the 10 boyz mark, or keeping them small but giving them a Nob and a PK so I can potentially threaten 3 tanks or the like. But at this point i've then got;

45 pt unit for 5
Nob and PK, bumping that up to 80, 85 with a BP. Which is now like double the original cost. where spending an extra 27,36 pts on 3 or 4 more bodies seems much more useful.

Any thoughts?


Also; @Vineheart
Read your post about your dred formation battle, sounded really fun, I was going to comment there but felt like the thread was already de-railed enough But do let us know how the next game goes, got a couple dreads and kans on the workbench as we speak.

I'd rather make it a unit of 20+Zagstrukk and get at least two PK nobz in there. That way, all stormboyz get Zagstrukk shred buff, and the unit is a true force to be reckoned with. Even when you've lost most of your boyz, the two PKs and Zagstrukk should wreck anything they touch. Just make sure that you get them down in cover or out of LoS, so they don't get shot to pieces on arrival.

Also note that nothing prevents Zagstrukk from leaving the unit and joining somewhere else. That way you can deny your opponent the three VP for the formation when necessary.

Ah that is very true, I was thinking even with the 3 units, drop them behind cover, use the 2d6 run they have to spread into the cover, ready for assault next turn. Suppose that works better for 20+ unit as well, as even if i did manage to land bang smack in the middle of a gunline with a 20 blob, there still gona take some serious punishment, may as well plop them in cover, then let them; move, 2d6 run and 2d6 assault. I mean if I cant reach something with that then the cover I chose was quite clearly way too far away

Umm in the suppliment the formation states if you form the 3 units into 1, zag can't leave. But if you don't form them up then yeh i assume he can (as like you said nothing prevents him leaving).

As a side note I also considered using the 2x5 man barebones as a cover save, same way people have suggested with the kommandos formation. But without stealth/shoud probably nowhere near as effective (actually yeh without the re-rolls too not great). But Zag and snikrot formation? that could be fun

I would suggest to take also the 3rd nob with nothing , or just a big choppa, to take unwanted challenge. Even if Zagstrukk is a challenge beast in this formation, there will be challenges he better not faces,

I am afraid the formation rule specifies that zagstruk can't leave the unit if we combine the 3 mobs ;(
But all is not lost ;p it counts "as 3 units" when destroyed, not necessarily 3 VP (depends on the mission type)

Hey guys,

I have some questions for the Orkimedes of this thread:

1) Has anyone got any experience with the Chinork? It's damn near my favourite model, and I love the idea of it ferrying some Kommando's or Flash Gitz or something into battle!
2) The Grot Mega Tank. How do these go? I love the looks of it, and just worry that people will be scared off because it's FW.
3) The Kill Blasta and Kill Bursta are just dead sexy. Try as I may, Google just hasn't bought up anything about their usefulness in the field.
4) Morka/Gorkanaut/Stompa. How are people finding these in regular games? I would LOVE to get a Stompa, but would settle for a Morka/Gorkanaut in it's place if the Stompa is going to get called OP.

I've also put my draft list up for C&C at:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/618094.page#7260904

Thanks!

P.S. First time Ork player. They have always been at the back of my mind as the army I want to do, but have never been able to find a list I like. Sorry if the questions are pretty newbish!

Stompa is not OP. It might be frightening for an unprepared enemy but it's not only killable but also prone to getting outmaneuvred. It's a good LOW nevertheless.

Not a rule question but something a bit unclear for me.

In a Boyz mob, add 1 each to change all to shootas, add 10 to upgrade 1 boy into a nob boss.

Therefore, in shootas mob: the nob is 1pt more expensive than in slugga mob?
Sorry if this is obvious, I just never realised.

XC18 wrote:
Not a rule question but something a bit unclear for me.

In a Boyz mob, add 1 each to change all to shootas, add 10 to upgrade 1 boy into a nob boss.

Therefore, in shootas mob: the nob is 1pt more expensive than in slugga mob?
Sorry if this is obvious, I just never realised.

It's actually a bit unclear.

For example, you have a mob of 10 boyz. You want 1 special and nob. You equip it with shootas. Now there are 2 possible poit costs depending on how you read the rule:

1. You interpret it so that for every model you pay 1 pt. So, you pay 10 pts.
2. You interpret it so that for every model that can replace a slugga with a shoota, you pay 1 pts. So, the special and nob (cause he can have shoota for free from ranged weapons) don't have sluggas and thus can't exchange them for shootas. You pay 8 pts.

Generally, everyone agrees that there's no need to pay extra points for the upgrades you don't get - specials still don'g get shootas cause they wield specials and nob can allready have a free shoota and thus doesn't need to replace it with an identical 1 pt shoota. But sometimes, people just love to play rule lawhers - lots of examples on YMDC where even the most obvious rules get twisted to the point of being silly and broken. Like: "you can't shoot a quad-gun with artillery grots cause they have no ranged weapons, thus can't shoot it INSTEAD of their weapons as written in rules. Also, you can't charge with spawns cause the models have no eyes, thus can't see the opponent and you can't declare charge on something out of your line of sight. Oh, i feel so horny when twist the rules this way..."

How do orks deal with an Imperial Knight?

 Geemoney wrote:
How do orks deal with an Imperial Knight?

If you want it dead - tankbustas and pk warbosses. Bullyboyz with 1-2 killsaws. Even killsaw meks are doing fine - though, i'd not recommend abusing killsaw meks in a tac list.

But we have great potential for just tarpitting it and/or blocking. Boyz, grots, trucks, whatever - all will do. The more stuff you have - the more realistic it becomes to invalidate a super-heavy. And we've got lots of stuff.

Tankbustas are all but a hard counter. That many meltabombs = bad news for any vehicle in Close Combat, especially given that Tankbustas have the Tank Hunters USR (reroll Armour Pen).

Keep in mind the Knight is only going to be able to kill 3 at most of your boyz before I1 and who cares how many will die from the Stomp Attacks. The cataclysmic explosion from when it dies probably would have killed them anyway lol.

10 Tankbustas is 145pts. A Knight is 375pts. Take 2 groups of 10 and you're still cheaper than a single knight.

hey all looking for some experienced advice on uses of the following formations:

the waaaagh council, the bully boyz, and the dread mob.


on the council, is it best to equip all characters that can have megaarmor with it? so the big mek and the two warbosses. what codex do the characters draw their gifts from? waaagh ghaz or the parent codex? when using this formation, does it count as using a LoW, since ghaz is one but I'm not technically purchasing him as one, but a requirement of this formation.

bullyboyz, i don't know how else to use them, expect maybe running them with the council and a blitz formation?

does anyone have any suggestions on how to make a dread mob work? run both gorkanaughts, ccw dreads and shooty cans?

thanks for any and all suggestions, I'm even thinking of trying to fit a greentide in with a dread mob... idk if its possible though

 zachwho wrote:
hey all looking for some experienced advice on uses of the following formations:

bullyboyz, i don't know how else to use them, expect maybe running them with the council and a blitz formation?

Bully boyz are great with Blitz brigade or just 3 wagonz. Some people like putting them in trucks. Works well when you get the 1-st turn. Doesn't really work when you get 2-d. But that's a matter of preference.

 zachwho wrote:

does anyone have any suggestions on how to make a dread mob work? run both gorkanaughts, ccw dreads and shooty cans?

thanks for any and all suggestions, I'm even thinking of trying to fit a greentide in with a dread mob... idk if its possible though

Dread mob needs a warboss to utilise their main strength - 'ere we go. You can either put him in a 30-strong footslogging squad with a painboss or make a biker star which is durable enough on it's own and will draw some s6-8 fire away from your walkers. It's a nice formation as it is but don't expect to win every game - especially vs something competitive.

Greentide doesn't synchronise quite well with the dread mob. Just cause you both need your boyz and walkers at the front and there's rarely enough space, so you're wasting 1 turn which is vital.