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So a unit and it's dedicated transport are counted as separate units, right? (could not find anything that says that a unit inside a transport would be counted as the same unit as the transport as long as they are embarked inside it)

Can a unit that was inside a scouting transport (open topped or an assault transport) assault on the first player turn? The unit inside did not make the scout move, but instead the transport did the scout redeployment. Therefore the unit inside should not be affected by the assault restriction of the scout rule and could assault on the players first turn (being it the top or the bottom of turn 1). I could not find anything restricting this in the 7th edition BRB.

Since dedicated transports cant assault, EVER, it should be pretty clear the rule applies to the passengers.

 Q_Arkhan wrote:
Since dedicated transports cant assault, EVER, it should be pretty clear the rule applies to the passengers.

Should be pretty clear? Can you quote a line from the BRB and give a page number please? I could not find any such restriction. And the "assault vehicle can't assault" line in my OP was just a joke part, but the rest is packed by RAW as long as someone can find a ruling that prevents it.

pg. 171 BRB "A unit that makes a scout redeployment cannot charge in the first game turn". The unit that made the scout redeployment is for example a White Scars landraider that was bought for a unit of assault centurions and the warlord is Khan, who gives the centurions scout, who give the scout to the Landraider. The landraider makes the scout redeployment move of 12" (being other than an infantry, artillery, a walker or a monsturous creature model who can only scout 6"). The centurions did not make the scout redeployment, but were embarked inside the transport. Nowhere in the rules for embarking inside transports (pg. 80-81) dedicated transports (pg. 82) or assault transports/open topped vehicles (pg. 88) does it state that they are counted as one unit with the Landraider. They just can't disembark from the vehicle after the vehicle has made it's scout move. That is on pg. 171, but again does not say that by being inside a scouting transport the unit inside is counted as making a scout redeployment.

I'm so scouting my assault termies and before new faq there's nothing you can do about it

Yep, there's a reason I always take servo skulls....

 masquerade81 wrote:

 Q_Arkhan wrote:
Since dedicated transports cant assault, EVER, it should be pretty clear the rule applies to the passengers.

Should be pretty clear? Can you quote a line from the BRB and give a page number please? I could not find any such restriction. And the "assault vehicle can't assault" line in my OP was just a joke part, but the rest is packed by RAW as long as someone can find a ruling that prevents it.

Is the embarked unit in the same place as when they were deployed?

If not how did they get to their new location? Via the Scout rule...

 DeathReaper wrote:

 masquerade81 wrote:

 Q_Arkhan wrote:
Since dedicated transports cant assault, EVER, it should be pretty clear the rule applies to the passengers.

Should be pretty clear? Can you quote a line from the BRB and give a page number please? I could not find any such restriction. And the "assault vehicle can't assault" line in my OP was just a joke part, but the rest is packed by RAW as long as someone can find a ruling that prevents it.

Is the embarked unit in the same place as whenthey were deployed?

If not how did they get to their new location? Via the Scout rule...

The landraider made the scout move, not the unit. edited my previous post, so read it before you continue.

So they did not get to their new position via a scout move?
Yes or no?

 masquerade81 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 masquerade81 wrote:

 Q_Arkhan wrote:
Since dedicated transports cant assault, EVER, it should be pretty clear the rule applies to the passengers.

Should be pretty clear? Can you quote a line from the BRB and give a page number please? I could not find any such restriction. And the "assault vehicle can't assault" line in my OP was just a joke part, but the rest is packed by RAW as long as someone can find a ruling that prevents it.

Is the embarked unit in the same place as whenthey were deployed?

If not how did they get to their new location? Via the Scout rule...

The landraider made the scout move, not the unit. edited my previous post, so read it before you continue.

So the unit that was inside the land raider did not go with the land raider?

So the transport made a scout redeployment. Yes.

Did the unit inside have to do any kind of moving for the transport to make a scout redeployment. No, the transport can move and the unit inside is a separate unit that is not making a scout redeployment.

What restrictions are there for units inside transports and scout. They can't embark/disembark as a part of a scout redeployment, so they can't do anything as long as they are inside a transport at the start of the game.

Page 88 and 157 assault vehicle....they didn't arrive from reserve.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So it'll be three of them

 masquerade81 wrote:
So the transport made a scout redeployment. Yes.

Did the unit inside have to do any kind of moving for the transport to make a scout redeployment. No, the transport can move and the unit inside is a separate unit that is not making a scout redeployment.

What restrictions are there for units inside transports and scout. They can't embark/disembark as a part of a scout redeployment, so they can't do anything as long as they are inside a transport at the start of the game.

So the unit inside is still in the same place on the battlefield, or did they get redeployed with the vehicle?

 DeathReaper wrote:

 masquerade81 wrote:
So the transport made a scout redeployment. Yes.

Did the unit inside have to do any kind of moving for the transport to make a scout redeployment. No, the transport can move and the unit inside is a separate unit that is not making a scout redeployment.

What restrictions are there for units inside transports and scout. They can't embark/disembark as a part of a scout redeployment, so they can't do anything as long as they are inside a transport at the start of the game.

So the unit inside is still in the same place on the battlefield, or did they get redeployed with the vehicle?

Yes, it's inside the transport, but did not make a scout move. The vehicle that did moved 12" that is not even a legal move for an infantry squad? So you are saying that a vehicle that can scout, can't scout more than 6" if there is a unit inside?

So the unit did not move with the vehicle?

 DeathReaper wrote:
So the unit did not move with the vehicle?

Yes it is inside the vehicle but neither moved. The vehicle made a scout REDEPLOYMENT, can you give me a quote from the rulebook, that a unit that is inside a scouting vehicle counts as making a scout redeployment?

If a heavy weapon team is inside a vehicle that scouts 12", does it have to snap fire or does it fire at full ballistic skill? (assuming they don't have relentless)

If it fires at full BS, is this because they didn't technically move?

 deviantduck wrote:
If a heavy weapon team is inside a vehicle that scouts 12", does it have to snap fire or does it fire at full ballistic skill? (assuming they don't have relentless)

If it fires at full BS, is this because they didn't technically move?

Depends, did the vehicle move in its proceeding Movement phase?

Whether the unit had the rule or not, if the unit moved as part of the scout re-deployment (due to embarkation on a vehicle or from being joined with a Scout IC, or an IC joined to scouts), then it has indeed "made a Scout re-deployment". Ergo, specifically banned from charging in the first turn.

DURING the scout re-deployment, you can't disembark anyone as part of that move. If they deployed in that vehicle under any circumstance, the child locks are on until the re-deployment is over.

AFTER the scout move and the first turn begins, it doesn't look like anything else is restricted though, so you can disembark and shoot, shoot from the vehicle, or psychic attack or whatever else. Just no pointing your sword and running at the bad guy, that would be unfair. Technically the vehicle hasn't moved yet that turn, so all normal rules would be in effect except for that one restriction on assaults.

I don't know of anything that would hinge on "what happened in the previous turn" would have anything to do with turn one. Since there are no turns before turn 1, I don't see how it would apply. You don't know if that scout snuck up 3 hours ago and was just laying there under camo, or if it just burned rubber to get there 3 seconds before. It was a "re-deployment" - no movement or moves are necessarily implied.

Why do people insist that there are ethereal states that things can be in in 40k?

i mean that's basically the argument, that the unit is not in fact there.

From a rules standpoint, the unit is not "on the battlefield" while embarked.

While embarked, units have no access to the battlefield without the use of firepoints.

Some people then gather that since they aren't techniqually on the table, that if the transport makes a scout redeploy, the unit itself has done nothing.

Im personally up on the fence about it. I know that the unit itself has not made a scout redeploy, though it was definately part of a scout redeploy otherwise it would have been forced to remain at its starting position in the deploy zone.

Eihnlazer wrote:
From a rules standpoint, the unit is not "on the battlefield" while embarked.

While embarked, units have no access to the battlefield without the use of firepoints.

Some people then gather that since they aren't techniqually on the table, that if the transport makes a scout redeploy, the unit itself has done nothing.

Im personally up on the fence about it. I know that the unit itself has not made a scout redeploy, though it was definately part of a scout redeploy otherwise it would have been forced to remain at its starting position in the deploy zone.

So basically if there is an infantry unit inside a transport, they restrict the transport from making a 12" scout redeployment as infantry models are restricted to only 6" scout redeployment? This if the unit inside the transport is also counted as being part of the scout redeployment. There is no mention of this in the rules anywhere and people are just enforcing RAI, but the fact is that RAW does not prevent a unit from assaulting from a scout redeployed assault vehicle on the first turn. The assault vehicle only restricts assault from it if it came from reserves. The scout rule does not mention anything else than if a unit that scout redeployed, it can't make a charge. But which is making the scout redeployment? The vehicle or the unit inside? As of now the rules do not clearly state that by being inside the transport the unit is in fact making a scout redeployment. It is just prevented from leaving the transport douring the scout redelpoyment.

 DeathReaper wrote:
So the unit did not move with the vehicle?

The unit counts as having moved, they did not move.

If you claim they moved, then I assume you will imit the vehicle to 6" moves when redeploying, and at all other times?

One interesting thing that would infer that the unit inside the transport has conducted a scout redeployment is the line that states "A unit cannot embark or disembark as part of a Scout redeployment"

If the UNIT cannot embark or disembark as part of the redeployment, but the unit (embarked) apparently did not scout redeploy, then this line is meaningless, correct?

The unit embarked is (by this line alone!) considered to have made a scout redeployment else it would be allowed to embark/disembark (as obviously a transport cannot embark upon itself, thus they are talking about the troops inside).

Also, you must end your redeployment "more than 12 inches" from any enemy unit. How are you charging anyway? (special rules such as, for example, boarding planks (?) aside I guess).

Huh? 6" disembark, charge up to 12". possibly 17.9....9" charge.

He's saying on the first turn he can move his assault vehicle, then disembark the unit, then assault with the unit.

He's not doing it during the actual Movement phase.

He's reploying up 12 before the game according to the scout move, then moving the vehicle during the 1st turns movement phase, then Disembarking, then he's saying the unit can charge.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Huh? 6" disembark, charge up to 12". possibly 17.9....9" charge.

Right .. my mistake.

However, the point on the restriction on assaulting still stands.

Eihnlazer wrote:
From a rules standpoint, the unit is not "on the battlefield" while embarked.

While embarked, units have no access to the battlefield without the use of firepoints.

Some people then gather that since they aren't techniqually on the table, that if the transport makes a scout redeploy, the unit itself has done nothing.

Im personally up on the fence about it. I know that the unit itself has not made a scout redeploy, though it was definately part of a scout redeploy otherwise it would have been forced to remain at its starting position in the deploy zone.

Actually units do have "access to the battlefield without the use of firepoints" If you have a Blood Angels squad with a Priest on board, you measure the priests 6 inch FNP bubble from the hull of the transport.

So it is more than just fire points.

Rorschach9 wrote:
One interesting thing that would infer that the unit inside the transport has conducted a scout redeployment is the line that states "A unit cannot embark or disembark as part of a Scout redeployment"

If the UNIT cannot embark or disembark as part of the redeployment, but the unit (embarked) apparently did not scout redeploy, then this line is meaningless, correct?

The unit embarked is (by this line alone!) considered to have made a scout redeployment else it would be allowed to embark/disembark (as obviously a transport cannot embark upon itself, thus they are talking about the troops inside).

Without that restriction you could first scout your vehicle, then disembark the unit inside for a further 6" move, but with the restriction in place this can not be done. This however does not prevent from moving 6" in the movement phase on the first turn and disembarking another 6" But yeah, that restriction may be interpreted as stating the unit inside is scout redeploying also. However do units in transports in fact deny the transports from moving more than 6" in the scout redeployment? If they are also scout redeploying, they should, if not, then no.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
So the unit did not move with the vehicle?

The unit counts as having moved, they did not move.

If you claim they moved, then I assume you will imit the vehicle to 6" moves when redeploying, and at all other times?

The vehicle moved, the unit inside moves with the vehicle.

 DeathReaper wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
So the unit did not move with the vehicle?

The unit counts as having moved, they did not move.

If you claim they moved, then I assume you will imit the vehicle to 6" moves when redeploying, and at all other times?

The vehicle moved, the unit inside moves with the vehicle.

Citation required.
The vehicle moved. The embarked unit stays embarked.